Question: I would prefer this question to be asked of Ben Garner as I need to understand as it puzzles me ?
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ? You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes.
Any adults who can answer any of the issues raised ?
I found it more noticeable that we were unlikely to have many crosses from the left byline, so would become rather predictable from that side, there was an insistence to cut inside on the right for the in swinging cross. Hope that is being addressed and sessengon gets moved to the right.
For that you would need a left footed wingback or winger and we have neither at present. One of the gaps, along with another striker, that must be filled to have a balanced side.
Yes that’s my point really, I’m sure it’s not just the fans that see it.
Question: I would prefer this question to be asked of Ben Garner as I need to understand as it puzzles me ?
There was one time in the first half when Steven Sessegnon was on the edge of the box with just the three defenders, one trying to mark him but both Jayden and Miles who came in from the right flank to join Stockley in the box as you should do. Now for me I would want a quality cross either on the ground or in this case in the air to the giant forwards who had the advantage of height. Heading hasn't been banned yet.
This is just a discussion so no need for the negativity bollocks being aimed at me but just confused on how Charlton are going to improve on the 9 wins out of 23 that Swindon achived last season at home ? You need quality in the air as well as on the ground as Rotherham proved last season with promotion. I'm 100% against hoof ball but a big fan of the diagonal ball out wide which has caught Cafc out so much over the last two seasons. Good to see Morgan and Fraser doing these passes.
Any adults who can answer any of the issues raised ?
I found it more noticeable that we were unlikely to have many crosses from the left byline, so would become rather predictable from that side, there was an insistence to cut inside on the right for the in swinging cross. Hope that is being addressed and sessengon gets moved to the right.
For that you would need a left footed wingback or winger and we have neither at present. One of the gaps, along with another striker, that must be filled to have a balanced side.
It's been really noticeable how much better balanced we've looked with a proper left footer (Clayden) playing there, someone who'd instinct is to get the by-line and cross the ball with his left foot.
It's so patently obvious that we need some quality ball in from the left by a natural left footer. The constant turning in on your right foot can mean the forwards can run into an off side position and all momentum is lost where a cross from an advanced position on the left means the forwards/midfielders are moving towards the ball. CBT cross for Aneke's headed goal is a good example against Morecambe and that was with the opposition sitting back on a 3-1 lead.
It's so patently obvious that we need some quality ball in from the left by a natural left footer. The constant turning in on your right foot can mean the forwards can run into an off side position and all momentum is lost where a cross from an advanced position on the left means the forwards/midfielders are moving towards the ball. CBT cross for Aneke's headed goal is a good example against Morecambe and that was with the opposition sitting back on a 3-1 lead.
I've raised this many a time on here & keep being told that it's the new way of playing. That alllllll teams play with "inverted wingers" and to get used to it. FWIW there is nothing a defender dislikes most than a ball being whipped in from near the byline, so that he is running towards his own goal trying to defend it. The attacker is then running onto the ball to head home. If a winger stops, cuts back onto his favoured foot, and then crosses the ball the defender has time to be facing up & easier to head the ball out.
Friendly results dont mean anything... But a breakdown of games played so far across the League.
Of course results should be taken with a pinch of salt as not going to research the standard of the line ups - Or opposition.
A couple of teams do also have one or two games left to play.
Good to generally see how other sides have got on but some of these results are misleading. For example at least 2 of those Bolton defeats were their U23/U18s. Same for Sheff Weds losing to Wakefield.
Really interesting viewing. The way we played against Swansea will see our wingers in lots of space and midfielders running on was causing them lots of issues. But if Inniss dawdles on the ball like yesterday they’ll be straight on him.
Really interesting viewing. The way we played against Swansea will see our wingers in lots of space and midfielders running on was causing them lots of issues. But if Inniss dawdles on the ball like yesterday they’ll be straight on him.
Garner needs to be very, very careful with those sorts of comments, they will come back to haunt him if the results go badly.
Like it or not, English fans, especially at League One level, like to see their teams going forward and being aggressive in attack, they don’t really want to see aimless passing of the ball at the back.
We have seen this before with Karl Robinson, plenty of passing but mediocre results and very little penetration up front and sloppy goals conceded.
If we think back to the success under Bowyer it came when the team became more direct and looked for second balls off Taylor in the final third or hit Grant in the channels, we didn’t play possession football at all.
It was the same deal in the Powell promotion team, hit Yann and then play off him, we had a very physical team that basically bullied most of our opponents, the likes of Taylor, Morrison, Cort and Kermorgant were absolute battering rams in the final third.
I’m backing him all the way, as should the rest of the fanbase. We have a clear plan, a style we want to play. Either the club commits to it fully or we end up chasing individual results without a clear focus on the underlying strategy.
Playing more direct happened to work for us in one off seasons in 11/12 and 18/19, but guess what? We went up a level, struggled and got relegated back into the third tier again. Because there wasn’t a long term game plan.
We’re trying to be better than that.
Lastly I’ll repost this rebuttal of the typical, English “get it forward” / “plan B” type comments. Funnily enough, coming out of the mouth of Saturday’s opposition manager, Russell Martin.
Our style of play had absolutely nothing to do with either of the Championship relegations.
Indeed, in the Championship in Powell's first season we just missed the Play Offs - despite having no cash whatsoever.
Under Bowyer we were doing brilliantly until October when our talismanic striker got injured and, of course, we had no money to buy anyone.
If Garner's possession based football works then that's fantastic and I will be delighted but when teams come to The Valley and put ten men behind the ball and sit deep then you need other options.
Friendly results dont mean anything... But a breakdown of games played so far across the League.
Of course results should be taken with a pinch of salt as not going to research the standard of the line ups - Or opposition.
A couple of teams do also have one or two games left to play.
Ipswich had a curiously London them teams centric set of fixtures, playing in consecutive matches Arsenal, West Ham, Palace, Wimbledon and Millwall!
Would love to see us playing some of them teams in pre-season games
We used to be in the same division as other London teams and many moons ago were above our local rivals and competing with the local big boys . Now we’re in this shithouse nothing league , yanking one off about a digital advertising board and a freebie from Swindon
Really interesting viewing. The way we played against Swansea will see our wingers in lots of space and midfielders running on was causing them lots of issues. But if Inniss dawdles on the ball like yesterday they’ll be straight on him.
I think Lavelle will start alongside O’Connell
I would. I think he fits better into what Garner is trying to do. I wonder if he wants Inniss’s physicality against Accrington though.
Really interesting viewing. The way we played against Swansea will see our wingers in lots of space and midfielders running on was causing them lots of issues. But if Inniss dawdles on the ball like yesterday they’ll be straight on him.
I think Lavelle will start alongside O’Connell
I would. I think he fits better into what Garner is trying to do. I wonder if he wants Inniss’s physicality against Accrington though.
Horses for courses v Accrington we need 3 centre halves.
Really interesting viewing. The way we played against Swansea will see our wingers in lots of space and midfielders running on was causing them lots of issues. But if Inniss dawdles on the ball like yesterday they’ll be straight on him.
I think Lavelle will start alongside O’Connell
I would. I think he fits better into what Garner is trying to do. I wonder if he wants Inniss’s physicality against Accrington though.
Horses for courses v Accrington we need 3 centre halves.
I’d be very surprised if we play 3 at the back after using 4-3-3 throughout preseason.
Where is the player that is going to score15/20 goals?
I think that both Stockley and Chuks are both more than capable of scoring 15+ in a season (injuries permitting). Payne and Fraser are also capable and have hit low double figures in a season in their careers, while other forwards, midfielders and defenders will chip in with 2s, 3s, 4s etc. They all add up. Bigger question for me is how many can we keep it down to at the other end when the defenders are trying to play ball? If we always have to score one, two or three vs 1-2 conceded, we could be in hotter water than we would like and not reaching the top 6 after all… Looking on the positive side personally, but I do possess a rather large drawer of rose tinted…
Generally a team in the play offs scores 70 plus goals. Of course if you concede a lot you wont finish in the top six but you do need to have an expectation that you have players to score that amount. If chuks and Stokley got 15, we have to find 30 plus from elsewhere.
Generally a team in the play offs scores 70 plus goals. Of course if you concede a lot you wont finish in the top six but you do need to have an expectation that you have players to score that amount. If chuks and Stokley got 15, we have to find 30 plus from elsewhere.
Even that is over optimistic. Stockley got 13 last season and Aneke 4 in half a season. Because they will not both stay fit, unsuspended and in form for the whole season 30 goals between them would be a stretch. There are simply not enough goals or goalscorers in the current squad to be optimistic however Garner sets them up to play.
I really want to be wrong about this by the way. But I just don't see it.
Generally a team in the play offs scores 70 plus goals. Of course if you concede a lot you wont finish in the top six but you do need to have an expectation that you have players to score that amount. If chuks and Stokley got 15, we have to find 30 plus from elsewhere.
Even that is over optimistic. Stockley got 13 last season and Aneke 4 in half a season. Because they will not both stay fit, unsuspended and in form for the whole season 30 goals between them would be a stretch. There are simply not enough goals or goalscorers in the current squad to be optimistic however Garner sets them up to play.
I really want to be wrong about this by the way. But I just don't see it.
The year before stockley got 9 in half a season and Aneke 15 in a full season. So I don’t think 30+ is that much of a stretch. We do definitely need more goals though so hopefully can get a striker to step in when they are injured and a winger that can add more goals. Payne will probably be on penalties so I think he can get 10+ as well
Generally a team in the play offs scores 70 plus goals. Of course if you concede a lot you wont finish in the top six but you do need to have an expectation that you have players to score that amount. If chuks and Stokley got 15, we have to find 30 plus from elsewhere.
Even that is over optimistic. Stockley got 13 last season and Aneke 4 in half a season. Because they will not both stay fit, unsuspended and in form for the whole season 30 goals between them would be a stretch. There are simply not enough goals or goalscorers in the current squad to be optimistic however Garner sets them up to play.
I really want to be wrong about this by the way. But I just don't see it.
We have the same in terms of forwards as we had last season, in fact less, it wasn’t good enough last season what has changed in these players to suggest they can get more goals this coming season. They unfortunately are not good enough as our 1st strikers on the team sheet. The mobility of both Stockley and Aneke, who I maintain against some opinion is largely over rated anyway, iis just not good enough.
It's quite unfortunate that we've been working on this lovely style of football and our first game is away to Accrington
On the other hand we play them when the pitch is fresh and flat.
Bat first and hope the pitch breaks up later on to help our spinners
Many of us do give a toss, but unfortunately we are in the corridor of uncertainty and there is so much spin from both sides. long legs is taking some stick and some don't want him as skipper. There will some in's and out's this week but it's not Over until September 1st. Let's hope for a LBW, Left back/winger as I don't want us to be caught out like last Summer when the season started and we were stumped straight away.
I thought we played some really nice stuff but looked a little lightweight and just couldn't score.
If they hadn't been awarded that dodgy penalty we could have easily come away with a well earned point. Still, early days and plenty of room for encouragement.
EDIT Sorry - that was intended for the Accrington post-match thread.
What I don't understand about scapegoats is that they are sent into the wilderness, when most goats seem to like the wilderness. So being a scapegoat isn't too bad. It's far better than being a donkey.
So lets look at how many goals we probably need to score. Now, of course the goals we concede is important but you can say that to get in the play offs you generally have to score above 70. How are we going to get to that figure? Look at our squad and guess a reasonable amount of goals from them, for me we are well short and as billynoots says, Stockley can get 20 plus if we play to his strengths but it will likely be a lot less if we don't give him the service his game needs. 70 looks like a high mountain to climb to me.
If three midfielders get 10 each, which would be fantastic, we would need 40 plus from elsewhere!
That isn't going to happen is it. Stockley isn't going to get the service that he needs, we have wingers that rarely score & our midfielders (new & old)aren't exactly full of goals. We've lost Washington & Davison, Aneke is a crock that some idiot handed a 3 & a half year contract to & somehow somebody thinks we are set up for a promotion bid. We need an out & out striker that fits into this system plus 2 Washington type forwards who can play across the front line like this McKirdy guy at Swindon. It seems he can play wide he can play central he can support the main striker & he can score goals. If he isn't considered good enough for3rd Division then surely our legendary black box can find a couple of similar players who are good enough. I know we still have a month until the window slams shut but aren't we having the same conversations that we had a year ago? Look how that turned out.
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Indeed, in the Championship in Powell's first season we just missed the Play Offs - despite having no cash whatsoever.
Under Bowyer we were doing brilliantly until October when our talismanic striker got injured and, of course, we had no money to buy anyone.
If Garner's possession based football works then that's fantastic and I will be delighted but when teams come to The Valley and put ten men behind the ball and sit deep then you need other options.
Now we’re in this shithouse nothing league , yanking one off about a digital advertising board and a freebie from Swindon
I really want to be wrong about this by the way. But I just don't see it.
Many of us do give a toss, but unfortunately we are in the corridor of uncertainty and there is so much spin from both sides. long legs is taking some stick and some don't want him as skipper. There will some in's and out's this week but it's not Over until September 1st. Let's hope for a LBW, Left back/winger as I don't want us to be caught out like last Summer when the season started and we were stumped straight away.
I thought we played some really nice stuff but looked a little lightweight and just couldn't score.
If they hadn't been awarded that dodgy penalty we could have easily come away with a well earned point. Still, early days and plenty of room for encouragement.
EDIT Sorry - that was intended for the Accrington post-match thread.