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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)
Comments
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I'm not quite sure what people thought he would say differently.
I understand why CAST challenged of course to keep some pressure on (as far as they can) and register the concerns, but the response is as we would expect / predict in my opinion.
He is hardly going to publicly say 'yep I got it all wrong' and 'please come and help me' !
The exchange has served its purpose regardless.8 -
Thank you CAST for your efforts.
Reading between the lines, I suspect it was not an easy meeting - but it was a necessary one. TS can now be in no doubt that the fans do, and will continue to take an interest in club affairs over and above what happens on the field (and rightfully so, in my opinion).
Yes, in many ways "he who pays the piper" has the right to "call the tune", but maybe not how it is played - especially if it comes to alleged bullying to achieve his ends.
He has acknowledged that others see some of his workplace initiatives as "offensive and aggressive". Well, we'll all be keeping a close look to see whether he takes measures to change that reputation-damaging perception.10 -
I do dearly hope he isn't.shirty5 said:He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
If he doesn't want to be treated like Duchatelet, howabout he stops behaving like him.
What a clueless, condescending piece of shit the bloke is. Utter fantasist.
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!7 -
He stressed that “the break even scenario would not be achieved by cost cutting.”
He discounted the idea of imminent sales of young players to balance the books
In laymen's terms: we can't cut costs to the point we start to break even And we're not going to cash in on young players.
That's Trussonomics right there. "Spending cuts won't get us far enough and I'm not going to liquidate assets, I'm going to wish the loss making business magically breaks even."
At best he's delusional. We know fine well that attendances aren't going to raise significant sums. Quite the reverse in this climate. There may well be scope for commercial income increases but realistically who is going to be spunking thousands on hospitality or advertising at a midtable (!) 3rd division football ground with rarely more than ten thousand bods in it 25 times a season?7 -
Amos on the wing said:
He'd probably "accidentally" bring his guitar to a funeral..."just incase".
I doubt he would slowly roll his hand up and say "you've charmed me" while interviewing a new financial director who he wants to immediately hire and all the car crash behaviour brent offered, but there would still be a bit of it present, just in a different style.
Completely lost in his own world3 -
On the subject of hospitality:
£96 for a pie and a pint? TV lounge - that's got to be the biggest tastiest damn pie anyone ever had
Even worse £96 for a padded seat and an inside space not even a cuppa? Vista - wibble
Makes the £36 for a drink and an inside space look sort of not completely mental. 1905 £7 a pint and £29 for the opportunity to spend more money.
Perfectly clear why we get emails trying to flog us this lunacy on the day before every match.7 -
Billy_Mix said:He stressed that “the break even scenario would not be achieved by cost cutting.”
He discounted the idea of imminent sales of young players to balance the books
In laymen's terms: we can't cut costs to the point we start to break even And we're not going to cash in on young players.
That's Trussonomics right there. "Spending cuts won't get us far enough and I'm not going to liquidate assets, I'm going to wish the loss making business magically breaks even."
At best he's delusional. We know fine well that attendances aren't going to raise significant sums. Quite the reverse in this climate. There may well be scope for commercial income increases but realistically who is going to be spunking thousands on hospitality or advertising at a midtable (!) 3rd division football ground with rarely more than ten thousand bods in it 25 times a season?
It’s just nonsense and everyone who has looked at the books and knows the club is aware of that. I notice the timescale to the mythical break even has been extended too.He can’t get the staff because of the tight labour market, he says, but he also sacks someone like Olly and then has to pay him over the odds because he didn’t follow proper process. Business genius.43 -
I can.boggzy said:
I do dearly hope he isn't.shirty5 said:He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
If he doesn't want to be treated like Duchatelet, howabout he stops behaving like him.
What a clueless, condescending piece of shit the bloke is. Utter fantasist.
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!1 -
No, I get your point, but it's precisely because fans do care about his thoughts on it that the question was asked of him.carly burn said:swordfish said:
Would you rather he hadn't attempted to answer the questions asked of him by the Trust then?carly burn said:We know how to break even but we're not going to tell you. That old chestnut
Why all the noise recently about breaking even anyway?
Who is Sandgaard trying to appease with this constant blurge?
It's certainly not the fans. I doubt most really care if we break even or not.
Two possible reasons for me.
He's either trying to get the attention of someone to get involved. But with the chance of maybe breaking even I doubt there's many investors falling over themselves to pour money in.
Or, he's trying to settle the nerves of someone who has already invested or got capital involved somewhere. Probably his bank manager hoping to at least get some of his money back!
Most might not worry about breaking even, but as as he said a while back that it was an aim, he was once again being asked to justify his comments. To be fair, he does have a duty of care as our owner to manage the Club's finances responsibly, although not doing so seems to be quite common for clubs aspiring to be successful.
It's not how much he spends anyway that's the problem, it's what he's spending it on, including paying for things like out of court settlements to former employees, assuming that's true. He didn't rule out paying fees in the January window, but I won't be holding my breath after last time and expect it to be loan signings.But he didn't answer it did he.I quote ' He believes that there is a lot of potential for growing revenue and that, although he didn’t want to go into detail, there are areas showing good progress. He is confident that losses can be halved in one more season and break even achieved in another season and a half after that."Straight out the book of Trussonomics, that!
I note it wasn't the only time he effectively dodged the question either. On reading some of his answers, you could be forgiven for interpreting them as him saying 'that really isn't something that should concern you,' which I agree is condescending and he shouldn't be surprised with our fan base and history that he's being asked awkward questions.
Incidentally I think he is still content going it alone and isn't looking for outside investment. No way would his ego tolerate power sharing. As for it being an attempt to give assurance to a money lender, why choose a meeting with CAST, or make any public declaration, to do that?2 -
Any staff/former staff worried about taking on the mighty Freshfields, need not worry to much. They are now using a fixed fee brief on an industrial estate in Maidstone to conduct their business/settlements.13
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Fans only care about it because he said it in the first place.swordfish said:
No, I get your point, but it's precisely because fans do care about his thoughts on it that the question was asked of him.carly burn said:swordfish said:
Would you rather he hadn't attempted to answer the questions asked of him by the Trust then?carly burn said:We know how to break even but we're not going to tell you. That old chestnut
Why all the noise recently about breaking even anyway?
Who is Sandgaard trying to appease with this constant blurge?
It's certainly not the fans. I doubt most really care if we break even or not.
Two possible reasons for me.
He's either trying to get the attention of someone to get involved. But with the chance of maybe breaking even I doubt there's many investors falling over themselves to pour money in.
Or, he's trying to settle the nerves of someone who has already invested or got capital involved somewhere. Probably his bank manager hoping to at least get some of his money back!
Most might not worry about breaking even, but as as he said a while back that it was an aim, he was once again being asked to justify his comments. To be fair, he does have a duty of care as our owner to manage the Club's finances responsibly, although not doing so seems to be quite common for clubs aspiring to be successful.
It's not how much he spends anyway that's the problem, it's what he's spending it on, including paying for things like out of court settlements to former employees, assuming that's true. He didn't rule out paying fees in the January window, but I won't be holding my breath after last time and expect it to be loan signings.But he didn't answer it did he.I quote ' He believes that there is a lot of potential for growing revenue and that, although he didn’t want to go into detail, there are areas showing good progress. He is confident that losses can be halved in one more season and break even achieved in another season and a half after that."Straight out the book of Trussonomics, that!
I note it wasn't the only time he effectively dodged the question either. On reading some of his answers, you could be forgiven for interpreting them as him saying 'that really isn't something that should concern you,' which I agree is condescending and he shouldn't be surprised with our fan base and history that he's being asked awkward questions.
Incidentally I think he is still content going it alone and isn't looking for outside investment. No way would his ego tolerate power sharing. As for it being an attempt to give assurance to a money lender, why choose a meeting with CAST, or make any public declaration, to do that?
Blowing the league out the water, Premier league in 5 years, break-even. None of that would be thrown in his face if he hadn't said it in the first place.
The rhetoric has calmed down a bit and some time lines extended but he is still doubling down on cloud cuckoo land.3 -
If that's true it's absolutely bonkers.T_C_E said:
A monkey I'm told!Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I can see both sides of it.colthe3rd said:"He now approves all expenses"
How far down the football pyramid do we reckon that this sort of thing is normal behaviour? I'd be willing to guess that nearly all L1 owners do not do this?
To have this in the same sentence as "there are “a thousand more business principles which need to be applied throughout the club so it can run more agile”" it's unbelievably short sighted. An agile business is one that doesn't have an owner micro managing every single detail around it.
If it was my company i'd certainly want to know what we were paying out, how much, who to and how essential it was.
But it also depends how far he's taking it. I certainly wouldn't expect him to be signing off the cost for coffee and tea bags but anything over a grand or two i could understand.0 -
And because of how it affects decision making on things like future transfer policy I'd suggest, but I don't accept fans of ours wouldn't be interested otherwise. Just my opinion.Cafc43v3r said:
Fans only care about it because he said it in the first place.swordfish said:
No, I get your point, but it's precisely because fans do care about his thoughts on it that the question was asked of him.carly burn said:swordfish said:
Would you rather he hadn't attempted to answer the questions asked of him by the Trust then?carly burn said:We know how to break even but we're not going to tell you. That old chestnut
Why all the noise recently about breaking even anyway?
Who is Sandgaard trying to appease with this constant blurge?
It's certainly not the fans. I doubt most really care if we break even or not.
Two possible reasons for me.
He's either trying to get the attention of someone to get involved. But with the chance of maybe breaking even I doubt there's many investors falling over themselves to pour money in.
Or, he's trying to settle the nerves of someone who has already invested or got capital involved somewhere. Probably his bank manager hoping to at least get some of his money back!
Most might not worry about breaking even, but as as he said a while back that it was an aim, he was once again being asked to justify his comments. To be fair, he does have a duty of care as our owner to manage the Club's finances responsibly, although not doing so seems to be quite common for clubs aspiring to be successful.
It's not how much he spends anyway that's the problem, it's what he's spending it on, including paying for things like out of court settlements to former employees, assuming that's true. He didn't rule out paying fees in the January window, but I won't be holding my breath after last time and expect it to be loan signings.But he didn't answer it did he.I quote ' He believes that there is a lot of potential for growing revenue and that, although he didn’t want to go into detail, there are areas showing good progress. He is confident that losses can be halved in one more season and break even achieved in another season and a half after that."Straight out the book of Trussonomics, that!
I note it wasn't the only time he effectively dodged the question either. On reading some of his answers, you could be forgiven for interpreting them as him saying 'that really isn't something that should concern you,' which I agree is condescending and he shouldn't be surprised with our fan base and history that he's being asked awkward questions.
Incidentally I think he is still content going it alone and isn't looking for outside investment. No way would his ego tolerate power sharing. As for it being an attempt to give assurance to a money lender, why choose a meeting with CAST, or make any public declaration, to do that?
Blowing the league out the water, Premier league in 5 years, break-even. None of that would be thrown in his face if he hadn't said it in the first place.
The rhetoric has calmed down a bit and some time lines extended but he is still doubling down on cloud cuckoo land.0 -
There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?0
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I have missed out on this rumour, is it factual LA?LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?0 -
It’s in the CAST notes from the recent meeting with Thomas, link on previous page 138. He actually says ‘reducing away travel costs’ so it might not be accommodation but I’d have thought that would be the biggest outlay.SoundAsa£ said:
I have missed out on this rumour, is it factual LA?LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?3 -
Of course people would question why we didn't spend any money on transfer fees in the summer, despite having incoming fees. Of course people would question wtf is going on with all the staff unrest.swordfish said:
And because of how it affects decision making on things like future transfer policy I'd suggest, but I don't accept fans of ours wouldn't be interested otherwise. Just my opinion.Cafc43v3r said:
Fans only care about it because he said it in the first place.swordfish said:
No, I get your point, but it's precisely because fans do care about his thoughts on it that the question was asked of him.carly burn said:swordfish said:
Would you rather he hadn't attempted to answer the questions asked of him by the Trust then?carly burn said:We know how to break even but we're not going to tell you. That old chestnut
Why all the noise recently about breaking even anyway?
Who is Sandgaard trying to appease with this constant blurge?
It's certainly not the fans. I doubt most really care if we break even or not.
Two possible reasons for me.
He's either trying to get the attention of someone to get involved. But with the chance of maybe breaking even I doubt there's many investors falling over themselves to pour money in.
Or, he's trying to settle the nerves of someone who has already invested or got capital involved somewhere. Probably his bank manager hoping to at least get some of his money back!
Most might not worry about breaking even, but as as he said a while back that it was an aim, he was once again being asked to justify his comments. To be fair, he does have a duty of care as our owner to manage the Club's finances responsibly, although not doing so seems to be quite common for clubs aspiring to be successful.
It's not how much he spends anyway that's the problem, it's what he's spending it on, including paying for things like out of court settlements to former employees, assuming that's true. He didn't rule out paying fees in the January window, but I won't be holding my breath after last time and expect it to be loan signings.But he didn't answer it did he.I quote ' He believes that there is a lot of potential for growing revenue and that, although he didn’t want to go into detail, there are areas showing good progress. He is confident that losses can be halved in one more season and break even achieved in another season and a half after that."Straight out the book of Trussonomics, that!
I note it wasn't the only time he effectively dodged the question either. On reading some of his answers, you could be forgiven for interpreting them as him saying 'that really isn't something that should concern you,' which I agree is condescending and he shouldn't be surprised with our fan base and history that he's being asked awkward questions.
Incidentally I think he is still content going it alone and isn't looking for outside investment. No way would his ego tolerate power sharing. As for it being an attempt to give assurance to a money lender, why choose a meeting with CAST, or make any public declaration, to do that?
Blowing the league out the water, Premier league in 5 years, break-even. None of that would be thrown in his face if he hadn't said it in the first place.
The rhetoric has calmed down a bit and some time lines extended but he is still doubling down on cloud cuckoo land.
If I have no doubt that if he hadn't promised the earth and then project break even he wouldn't be getting the stick he is. He could easily have blamed it on Covid and general economic issues.2 -
They're walking to and from away games.LargeAddick said:
It’s in the CAST notes from the recent meeting with Thomas, link on previous page 138. He actually says ‘reducing away travel costs’ so it might not be accommodation but I’d have thought that would be the biggest outlay.SoundAsa£ said:
I have missed out on this rumour, is it factual LA?LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?3 -
Buying a football club was a big risk and he's bottled it.
Scraping the barrel for peanuts isn't how to run a club.
You also wouldn't have to bother with any of that if the club spent just 1 season back in the premier league.
If Sandgaard was a politician then you'd better cover your ears4 -
I'm trying to understand what it is I've been posting that is so contentious. At no point have I questioned why he was getting stick today. Read my posts again if in doubt. Whatever you're taking issue with me about, which I don't understand anyway, I yield and will return to the shadows for the foreseeable because life's too short as it is.Cafc43v3r said:
Of course people would question why we didn't spend any money on transfer fees in the summer, despite having incoming fees. Of course people would question wtf is going on with all the staff unrest.swordfish said:
And because of how it affects decision making on things like future transfer policy I'd suggest, but I don't accept fans of ours wouldn't be interested otherwise. Just my opinion.Cafc43v3r said:
Fans only care about it because he said it in the first place.swordfish said:
No, I get your point, but it's precisely because fans do care about his thoughts on it that the question was asked of him.carly burn said:swordfish said:
Would you rather he hadn't attempted to answer the questions asked of him by the Trust then?carly burn said:We know how to break even but we're not going to tell you. That old chestnut
Why all the noise recently about breaking even anyway?
Who is Sandgaard trying to appease with this constant blurge?
It's certainly not the fans. I doubt most really care if we break even or not.
Two possible reasons for me.
He's either trying to get the attention of someone to get involved. But with the chance of maybe breaking even I doubt there's many investors falling over themselves to pour money in.
Or, he's trying to settle the nerves of someone who has already invested or got capital involved somewhere. Probably his bank manager hoping to at least get some of his money back!
Most might not worry about breaking even, but as as he said a while back that it was an aim, he was once again being asked to justify his comments. To be fair, he does have a duty of care as our owner to manage the Club's finances responsibly, although not doing so seems to be quite common for clubs aspiring to be successful.
It's not how much he spends anyway that's the problem, it's what he's spending it on, including paying for things like out of court settlements to former employees, assuming that's true. He didn't rule out paying fees in the January window, but I won't be holding my breath after last time and expect it to be loan signings.But he didn't answer it did he.I quote ' He believes that there is a lot of potential for growing revenue and that, although he didn’t want to go into detail, there are areas showing good progress. He is confident that losses can be halved in one more season and break even achieved in another season and a half after that."Straight out the book of Trussonomics, that!
I note it wasn't the only time he effectively dodged the question either. On reading some of his answers, you could be forgiven for interpreting them as him saying 'that really isn't something that should concern you,' which I agree is condescending and he shouldn't be surprised with our fan base and history that he's being asked awkward questions.
Incidentally I think he is still content going it alone and isn't looking for outside investment. No way would his ego tolerate power sharing. As for it being an attempt to give assurance to a money lender, why choose a meeting with CAST, or make any public declaration, to do that?
Blowing the league out the water, Premier league in 5 years, break-even. None of that would be thrown in his face if he hadn't said it in the first place.
The rhetoric has calmed down a bit and some time lines extended but he is still doubling down on cloud cuckoo land.
If I have no doubt that if he hadn't promised the earth and then project break even he wouldn't be getting the stick he is. He could easily have blamed it on Covid and general economic issues.1 - Sponsored links:
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In terms of the reports that the culture inside the club was aggressive he said that it was “deliberate to challenge staff and in the name of change [in culture]”. He said we need something different either through the people already employed or by new people coming in. A “whole different culture” is needed or “nothing will ever change”. He regretted that “initiatives that are well meant are viewed as offensive and aggressive by employees or people who are outside of the organisation”.superclive98 said:
I can.boggzy said:
I do dearly hope he isn't.shirty5 said:He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
If he doesn't want to be treated like Duchatelet, howabout he stops behaving like him.
What a clueless, condescending piece of shit the bloke is. Utter fantasist.
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!
1 -
So he supports bullying as a means of changing ‘culture’ … way out of line.Pico said:
In terms of the reports that the culture inside the club was aggressive he said that it was “deliberate to challenge staff and in the name of change [in culture]”. He said we need something different either through the people already employed or by new people coming in. A “whole different culture” is needed or “nothing will ever change”. He regretted that “initiatives that are well meant are viewed as offensive and aggressive by employees or people who are outside of the organisation”.superclive98 said:
I can.boggzy said:
I do dearly hope he isn't.shirty5 said:He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
If he doesn't want to be treated like Duchatelet, howabout he stops behaving like him.
What a clueless, condescending piece of shit the bloke is. Utter fantasist.
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!I’ve no problem with getting tough in an organisation to bring in improvements … but certain individuals seem to be interpreting this in their own way.6 -
As good an explanation as any for their lack of energy v. MKD, although the walk from Sparrows Lane to Floyd Road shouldn't have been THAT exhausting for professional athletes...RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
They're walking to and from away games.LargeAddick said:
It’s in the CAST notes from the recent meeting with Thomas, link on previous page 138. He actually says ‘reducing away travel costs’ so it might not be accommodation but I’d have thought that would be the biggest outlay.SoundAsa£ said:
I have missed out on this rumour, is it factual LA?LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?1 -
" Change the culture" ...hmmm.Pico said:
In terms of the reports that the culture inside the club was aggressive he said that it was “deliberate to challenge staff and in the name of change [in culture]”. He said we need something different either through the people already employed or by new people coming in. A “whole different culture” is needed or “nothing will ever change”. He regretted that “initiatives that are well meant are viewed as offensive and aggressive by employees or people who are outside of the organisation”.superclive98 said:
I can.boggzy said:
I do dearly hope he isn't.shirty5 said:He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
If he doesn't want to be treated like Duchatelet, howabout he stops behaving like him.
What a clueless, condescending piece of shit the bloke is. Utter fantasist.
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!
Is that USA speak for " We want all the existing staff out, then fill those posts with newer, cheaper bods ASAP" ?
I've been told by a few people ITK over the past year or so, that THIS was clearly TS's cunning plan.
Think Chris Parkes as one of the first, prime examples....1 -
He is probably booking the first team into the local youth hostel.LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?0 -
There’s one major point that has been unclear to me for a while now.
How drastically has the recent financial affairs at Zynex affected TS and his decision making?
Maybe the unforeseen collapse of the share prices has left him in a position he hadn’t expected when he originally took over?
I think there’s a strong possibility that it has drastically affected his liquid assets and that he doesn’t have the same confidence in financing us as he had planned.
I have a hunch that how well Zynex is or isn’t performing is, and will continue to be, having a major effect on us.3 -
I have messages from a former female members of staff that have been “protected” to use her words from one individual’s behaviour by another male member of staff.That is not down to interpretation, that individual was sent on a man management and Mentalhealth awareness yet that didn’t phase them it still continued.That former member of staff is a member of CL and can verify or deny my comments if she chooses but that would be her decision, Dan Burke now speaking out on Twitter about his mistreatment.
That tiny snowball Nathan started rolling down the hill is slowly gaining momentum as staff and former staff gain the the strength to speak out.
For those without Twitter, Dan Burke has left his new employment a contractor at the club after being told he wasn’t welcome at The Valley in any form.
I know of at least two others that have been told the same at least that’s what they’ve told me and I’ve no reason to doubt them.
The owners have lied to my face, so I have every reason to doubt everything they say.23 -
So, THAT'S why he needed to get rid of Watson, Pratley & co....No way they could pass as youths !msomerton said:
He is probably booking the first team into the local youth hostel.LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?7 -
They struggled to pass as footballersFanny Fanackapan said:
So, THAT'S why he needed to get rid of Watson, Pratley & co....No way they could pass as youths !msomerton said:
He is probably booking the first team into the local youth hostel.LargeAddick said:There is so much to be commented on I don’t know where to start. However, does anyone know exactly what costs have been cut for players overnight stays at away games? Are they being asked to stay with mates in the area?10 -
Haha, dad rock_MrDick said:0
