He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!
Some won’t bite the hand that feeds them it seems.
Stu / Boggzy - why not try reading the notes of the meeting before you comment ?
"In terms of the reports that the culture inside the club was aggressive he said that it was “deliberate to challenge staff and in the name of change [in culture]”. He said we need something different either through the people already employed or by new people coming in. A “whole different culture” is needed or “nothing will ever change”. He regretted that “initiatives that are well meant are viewed as offensive and aggressive by employees or people who are outside of the organisation”.
We outlined how in general salaries for non-football staff tend to be lower when compared to other industries so the rewards must come in other ways such as working in a fun and pleasant environment. He said he had been through the same process in the company he runs in the U.S. and eventually it turns into a great place to work."
I've read that three times now. Once on your website, and the two times you've copied and pasted on here.
There's nothing there about bulllying - the protagonist has been there years now, you can see on the TK thread how upset/shocked supporters are about it. It's not 'aggressive', it's literally making people ill and quit their jobs.
I am assuming you didn't respond to his waffle in any way, shape or form?
Yes, well done for getting the bloke to a meeting, where the bollox he spouts can be shown up in the future (though I'm not sure what help that actually is in the scheme of things) - but I'm sure a paying membership would have expected some sort of pressure - not just 'right, he's answered that, on to the next question'.
His reply makes it clear that it is not about one "protagonist" but rather a deliberate culture led from the top.
So why not challenge his reply and actually mention the word bullying, instead of pussyfooting around it with semantics?
He’s getting triggered when he’s now having to mention Duchatelet. Not even 10 percent that went on with the protests etc back then, are even close to now.
I don’t see him being owner of Charlton by the start of next season in my opinion. Not been told or heard anything but running it down to the bear minimum may (in his mind) make it easier to sell by next summer
PS Can't believe the bullying concerns and myriad staff 'losses' weren't brought up at the meeting!
Some won’t bite the hand that feeds them it seems.
Stu / Boggzy - why not try reading the notes of the meeting before you comment ?
"In terms of the reports that the culture inside the club was aggressive he said that it was “deliberate to challenge staff and in the name of change [in culture]”. He said we need something different either through the people already employed or by new people coming in. A “whole different culture” is needed or “nothing will ever change”. He regretted that “initiatives that are well meant are viewed as offensive and aggressive by employees or people who are outside of the organisation”.
We outlined how in general salaries for non-football staff tend to be lower when compared to other industries so the rewards must come in other ways such as working in a fun and pleasant environment. He said he had been through the same process in the company he runs in the U.S. and eventually it turns into a great place to work."
I've read that three times now. Once on your website, and the two times you've copied and pasted on here.
There's nothing there about bulllying - the protagonist has been there years now, you can see on the TK thread how upset/shocked supporters are about it. It's not 'aggressive', it's literally making people ill and quit their jobs.
I am assuming you didn't respond to his waffle in any way, shape or form?
Yes, well done for getting the bloke to a meeting, where the bollox he spouts can be shown up in the future (though I'm not sure what help that actually is in the scheme of things) - but I'm sure a paying membership would have expected some sort of pressure - not just 'right, he's answered that, on to the next question'.
His reply makes it clear that it is not about one "protagonist" but rather a deliberate culture led from the top.
Boggzy, Stu you always have the option to stand for the CAST board if you feel unhappy about the way we have approached this.
If we started citing specific names and cases TS could far too easily dismiss that as not something he was prepared to talk to “outsiders” about.
And @Stu_of_Kunming to be 100% clear we receive no favours or hospitality from the club. On the one occasion a good while back when @Pico and I met with TS and RM at the Royal Oak, the pub supplied some food and I bought the drinks in a personal capacity.
I tuned into TALKSPORT with Darren Bent when Ipswich played Derby a few weeks back! They had their CEO Mark Aashton who joined ITFC in 2021 on the show, and wow I thought, what a smart and intelligent CEO he is, I think Matt Holland was on the show aswell! The plans they have and the business plan they have in place is really impressive. They may have a bigger budget, but they are running schemes as they very much aware community focused, they had supporters in the community who were unable to attend matches because of the prices in our current economic market. However they had a scheme where if you could take 3 people to a match for £45! Yes they are selling out each week and their catchment area may be different, but the fact is they are using the phrase getting bums on seats! I am not jealous of Ipswich but it just shows if you get the right CEO through the front door you can turn around how the club is performing. Matt Holland I understand is part of that process along with other stalwarts. This is not a case of jealousy, but I certainly understand our supporters being very disinterested in our club, whic is based on our owners lack of knowledge on what is required! If only our boss could reach out to those who could make a real difference. We are all thankful he come along, but I along with others can only hope we can get someone with which was shown with the ITFC CEO which believe me was very refreshing, and they really have built a strong engagement with IPSWICH not only as a football club, but very community focused. My last encounter at the Valley cost me nearly £70 and myself and my better half had just turned 60. I could not afford to eat or drink inside the ground and to be fair we had a snack and beverage at the local M&S which was comfortable and fitted our budget. I am sorry I am not a ST holder as I can only get to the odd games, so I know there are deserving supported who deserve better treatment. We have every right to hold the owner to account on how this club is run, but I also understand it is his money, and I think TS thinks in the same respect. He cannot afford to have people who will turn their backs on the club, think the saying is 'we vote with our feet'. The grass is never going to be greener not being able to afford to watch the club who I have had supported since the 70's having lift locally. I now live in Maidstone and if the club focused more effort on the supporters I am sure this would be reflected in the numbers willing to turn up each week. Look at Ipswich I know they like playing us and have fantastic support and I would have certainly made provisions and gave them another 2000 tickets which I dare say they could potentially sell, given the right structure. If clubs like Bayern and Barcelona can make matches affordable then they must be doing something right. That's me done for the day!
Guess this has already been spoted. But when he says that Charlton Athletic football club has the 4th largest budget in the league .this is likely true. But that does not mean the squad budget is the 4th largest, he is talking about the whole running cost of the club and being a London club those other costs are probably a lot higher than in the rest of the country.
Boggzy, Stu you always have the option to stand for the CAST board if you feel unhappy about the way we have approached this.
If we started citing specific names and cases TS could far too easily dismiss that as not something he was prepared to talk to “outsiders” about.
And @Stu_of_Kunming to be 100% clear we receive no favours or hospitality from the club. On the one occasion a good while back when @Pico and I met with TS and RM at the Royal Oak, the pub supplied some food and I bought the drinks in a personal capacity.
You get the meetings, which might not happen if you took a firmer stance on the horrific actions of the club.
Perhaps that’s a necessary, pragmatic approach, I didn’t even say it was wrong, just gave my opinion as to why they’re not asked.
Get down the Amersham Arms tonight! Ed Sheeran was at the game and amazingly was getting on famously with Sandgaard in the lounge, They have agreed a secret gig together this evening in the Amersham at 9pm according to Andy in the Amersham who is freaking out about security.
Guess this has already been spoted. But when he says that Charlton Athletic football club has the 4th largest budget in the league .this is likely true. But that does not mean the squad budget is the 4th largest, he is talking about the whole running cost of the club and being a London club those other costs are probably a lot higher than in the rest of the country.
Not true mate. He says 4th highest PLAYING budget.
Guess this has already been spoted. But when he says that Charlton Athletic football club has the 4th largest budget in the league .this is likely true. But that does not mean the squad budget is the 4th largest, he is talking about the whole running cost of the club and being a London club those other costs are probably a lot higher than in the rest of the country.
Not true mate. He says 4th highest PLAYING budget.
Guess this has already been spoted. But when he says that Charlton Athletic football club has the 4th largest budget in the league .this is likely true. But that does not mean the squad budget is the 4th largest, he is talking about the whole running cost of the club and being a London club those other costs are probably a lot higher than in the rest of the country.
Not true mate. He says 4th highest PLAYING budget.
Wage budget I believe
He says PLAYING. I suggest you read it again, that’s if you are able to.
CAST Special bulletin issued yesterday 30th October (Clive has posted the link above but replicated text here. Hope that's ok by everyone). Good assessment of a tricky situation at an important time in my opinion, for what it's worth:
On Wednesday 26th October, members of the CAST board held a meeting with Thomas Sandgaard via Teams to raise with him the issues and concerns that we had outlined in our letter of October 13th
Since the meeting, we have reflected on the answers. What is clear now is that the owner has recalibrated. The Premier League may still be his ambition, but we are certainly not getting there any time soon. It seemed to us that there were two reasons for this. Firstly, Thomas Sandgaard has seen the evidence that making progress on the squad and playing side is not quite as easy as he first thought with no direct correlation between the amount of money pumped into the team and likelihood of promotion. Secondly, the owner is motivated to focus on fixing what he identifies as problems on the business side of the club. As it stands, we should be expecting League One football for a while yet, at best a shot at the play-offs. There is also likely to be more change on the non-playing side of the club as the owner is determined to shape the internal culture to his preferred style.
We were left with the feeling that the owner is focusing first on what he sees as wrong with the club, rather than identifying what is right and building on from there. Sure, things can and should be improved, but let’s make sure the doctor doesn’t accidently kill the patient through a too aggressive use of the knife.
We are also concerned that his approach and statements run the risk of negating the goodwill that needs to be nurtured in order to build momentum and fill The Valley.
For many, the Back to The Valley 30 events bring into focus a time when Charlton over, not under, performed. Then the task was a great deal more daunting than getting out of League One. We achieved by pulling together. We were one club, directors, staff, supporters, players, and community. The energy of the whole was much greater than the individual parts. We are worried that the pivot of the Fan Adviser role to one in which the advisers are expected to advise the fans of what is going on in the club and of the owner’s plans rather than the other way round, could seriously compromise our chances of acting as one club.
It is clear that the owner sees the role of fans and CAST itself as simply one of cheerleading for the team. In our opinion this is contrary to the one club ambition, the history of our club and the zeitgeist in English football. The role of football clubs as important community assets, not just businesses, is increasingly recognised. We will continue to urge for the adoption of the Fan Led Review in its entirety and to strive for more formal recognition of the role of supporters in the steering of clubs in tandem with greater transparency and sustainability around club finances.
In the spirit of building on the positive, we did leave the meeting with a strong mutual understanding of the value of the Academy, the hope that we’ll be watching Miles Leaburn in an Addicks’ shirt for a good while yet and an expectation that we will be able to put Charlton items in our Christmas stockings that cost less than £50.
We will follow-up regarding a date for a Q&A with Thomas Sandgaard - before the turn of the year - and urge members and indeed all fans to attend and take the opportunity to put your own questions to the owner.
If you are not already among the 2,700 members of CAST, do join today - it only costs £5 annually and helps to strengthen the voice of the Addicks
We have probably got the 4th biggest playing wage budget, but it's an unbalanced squad. We are on our 4th manager since TS has owned us and have a mismatch of players, some who clearly cannot play Garnerball - so a lot of this money is wasted
Without breaking any confidences I know for obvious reasons quite a lot of people who have been or are involved in running or overseeing the club at a senior level or have a professional insight. Absolutely none of them think TS is doing a good job or have confidence in him going forward.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Which it will eventually, there will come a point he’d rather sell than fund further losses. It’s just a question of when.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7?
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Which it will eventually, there will come a point he’d rather sell than fund further losses. It’s just a question of when.
I absolutely agree with this , it's absolutely a when. Probably when there's no one in the squad that he can sell for seven figures to reduce the losses. Could easily see him entertaining offers by the end of the season if we aren't in the PO hunt.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7?
I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him.
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
Maybe we should start a new Card ( not CARD) initiative & send him some good wishes for his next project to help him on his way....
Would he maybe consider joining the ex directors and offer to get some recompense should we reach the PL, and hand it over to someone with serious clout....if they exist??
Without breaking any confidences I know for obvious reasons quite a lot of people who have been or are involved in running or overseeing the club at a senior level or have a professional insight. Absolutely none of them think TS is doing a good job or have confidence in him going forward.
I don't think he even believes it's possible, the numbers aren't close to adding up. It's just bare faced lies at this stage.
Would he maybe consider joining the ex directors and offer to get some recompense should we reach the PL, and hand it over to someone with serious clout....if they exist??
I doubt many purchasers would agree though. If you are going to spend £'s to try to get to the PL it is a high risk/high reward strategy. If that was me I would want the reward not to pass it to a failed previous owner just because he didn't achieve his own goals.
Appreciate the spivs agreed to a similar deal but they picked up the club and it's assets for nothing in return didn't they?
Whilst it must be clear to everyone the situation and TS’ running of the club is far from ideal, until someone is prepared to pay what it takes to do a better job, we’re stuck with him.
Unfortunately I don’t see him changing his ways, so the only hope is the price tag becomes more realistic for those interested.
Until and unless he is willing to get out of the way we won’t find out whether that is a possibility.
In your opinion, if someone came to TS and offered him a sum he deemed a reasonable amount to buy the club, do you think TS would genuinely entertain it? Or is he too committed/invested in being the power that be in SE7?
I don't know what he would deem a reasonable amount and I doubt his opening position is where he would end up, but he's going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is only going to end one way, which I'm sure is difficult for him.
How does this align with your previous observation there are potential bidders in the background?
There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?
Comments
On to the next question!
Fans getting at the fans advisors on Twitter.
Fans getting at CAST on here.
Such childish behaviour imho (not that I’m sure most will care).
We all want what’s best for our club.
Can we just concentrate on that & be civil to each other, please?
But when he says that Charlton Athletic football club has the 4th largest budget in the league .this is likely true.
But that does not mean the squad budget is the 4th largest, he is talking about the whole running cost of the club and being a London club those other costs are probably a lot higher than in the rest of the country.
Ed Sheeran was at the game and amazingly was getting on famously with Sandgaard in the lounge,
They have agreed a secret gig together this evening in the Amersham at 9pm according to Andy in the Amersham who is freaking out about security.
CAST Special bulletin issued yesterday 30th October (Clive has posted the link above but replicated text here. Hope that's ok by everyone). Good assessment of a tricky situation at an important time in my opinion, for what it's worth:
https://www.castrust.org/2022/10/cast-meeting-with-thomas-sandgaard-expect-more-of-the-same/
On Wednesday 26th October, members of the CAST board held a meeting with Thomas Sandgaard via Teams to raise with him the issues and concerns that we had outlined in our letter of October 13th
We provided minutes of the meeting here on Friday: thomas-sandgaard-break-even-scenario-would-not-be-achieved-by-cost-cutting. They are reported as happened.
Since the meeting, we have reflected on the answers. What is clear now is that the owner has recalibrated. The Premier League may still be his ambition, but we are certainly not getting there any time soon. It seemed to us that there were two reasons for this. Firstly, Thomas Sandgaard has seen the evidence that making progress on the squad and playing side is not quite as easy as he first thought with no direct correlation between the amount of money pumped into the team and likelihood of promotion. Secondly, the owner is motivated to focus on fixing what he identifies as problems on the business side of the club. As it stands, we should be expecting League One football for a while yet, at best a shot at the play-offs. There is also likely to be more change on the non-playing side of the club as the owner is determined to shape the internal culture to his preferred style.
We were left with the feeling that the owner is focusing first on what he sees as wrong with the club, rather than identifying what is right and building on from there. Sure, things can and should be improved, but let’s make sure the doctor doesn’t accidently kill the patient through a too aggressive use of the knife.
We are also concerned that his approach and statements run the risk of negating the goodwill that needs to be nurtured in order to build momentum and fill The Valley.
For many, the Back to The Valley 30 events bring into focus a time when Charlton over, not under, performed. Then the task was a great deal more daunting than getting out of League One. We achieved by pulling together. We were one club, directors, staff, supporters, players, and community. The energy of the whole was much greater than the individual parts. We are worried that the pivot of the Fan Adviser role to one in which the advisers are expected to advise the fans of what is going on in the club and of the owner’s plans rather than the other way round, could seriously compromise our chances of acting as one club.
It is clear that the owner sees the role of fans and CAST itself as simply one of cheerleading for the team. In our opinion this is contrary to the one club ambition, the history of our club and the zeitgeist in English football. The role of football clubs as important community assets, not just businesses, is increasingly recognised. We will continue to urge for the adoption of the Fan Led Review in its entirety and to strive for more formal recognition of the role of supporters in the steering of clubs in tandem with greater transparency and sustainability around club finances.
In the spirit of building on the positive, we did leave the meeting with a strong mutual understanding of the value of the Academy, the hope that we’ll be watching Miles Leaburn in an Addicks’ shirt for a good while yet and an expectation that we will be able to put Charlton items in our Christmas stockings that cost less than £50.
We will follow-up regarding a date for a Q&A with Thomas Sandgaard - before the turn of the year - and urge members and indeed all fans to attend and take the opportunity to put your own questions to the owner.
If you are not already among the 2,700 members of CAST, do join today - it only costs £5 annually and helps to strengthen the voice of the Addicks
I absolutely agree with this , it's absolutely a when. Probably when there's no one in the squad that he can sell for seven figures to reduce the losses. Could easily see him entertaining offers by the end of the season if we aren't in the PO hunt.
He will be sniffing around every now and again and making alterations/having some kind of input.
Do they find him annoying?
Or, do they not really have an opinion one way or the other?
Appreciate the spivs agreed to a similar deal but they picked up the club and it's assets for nothing in return didn't they?
There is always a 'price' but surely that's only identified when parties start talking to each other. Are there 'talks' however tentative / high level?