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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Derby County | Saturday 6th August 2022 @ 3pm

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  • Second game of the season. New manager. New players. Completely new ethos and style of play. Playing a strong side who have come down from the championship who have clearly have a larger budget than us.

    And some fans are booing at the first opportunity they get. 

    I personally just don’t understand why you would have that reaction.

    I don’t want the valley to turn into a place where if our players have an off day, or are outplayed for a half (which will happen) they get boo’d. 

    Wholly agree. In fact it would be good for booing to be saved exclusively as a post-match thing this season if used at all. If the team are playing badly we have a great opportunity to improve the game with our support (there is a clue in the word "supporter"!) Inniss made this point very clear in his interview on CTV on Saturdays pre-match show. I fully believe Garner when he says his team is going to give everything to win every match at the valley this season. We as supporters should be 100% doing the same. If not ~ stay at home. 
  • I thought Derby played the football we are trying to. We got back into it when we mixed it up more. I was told our XG was higher than theirs. 
  • I thought Derby played the football we are trying to. We got back into it when we mixed it up more. I was told our XG was higher than theirs. 
    Fair comment I'd agree. They were having relentless success with long balls out to either winger though. Even when we got to the long ball first we were heading it off the pitch so they had a throw in our territory. 
  • Some people booing because we a have a small number of fans who are over entitled pricks.
  • Interesting about the xG stats. Perhaps I was over analysing due to the idea of 'Garnerball' but first half I felt we were playing the percentage ball but with poor execution and it was all too predictable. Until the enforced change we were far too powder puff in midfield.

    Second half we showed much more bite in midfield and mixed up the play better. More energy went into the press too which was effective. It was pretty hot on Saturday but in normal conditions and with fitness work, I hope that energy level can be maintained for the full 90 plus minutes as it will put teams on the back foot. 
  • If there is such a thing as Garnerball, there seems less room for Dobson in it. Seeing as he is our best player, we do need something in between as we can't afford not to play our best player IMO. I think he made a massive difference on Saturday. He is an annoying little bastard when he plays against you which is terrific and what we need.
  • edited August 2022
    If there is such a thing as Garnerball, there seems less room for Dobson in it. Seeing as he is our best player, we do need something in between as we can't afford not to play our best player IMO. I think he made a massive difference on Saturday. He is an annoying little bastard when he plays against you which is terrific and what we need.
    I think too many people are making too much of GarnerBall.  We aren't going to suddenly try and play like Spain did.  We will pass the ball more than 5 yards and over head hight at times, believe it or not.  We will even cross it in the air 🤪
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  • I like the fact that each of our midfielders has a slightly different style and capability. I think choosing the right combination to start / come off the bench against different types of opposition will be key this season. 

    If he's fit, I'd be tempted to start Payne against Wednesday and just put him on Bannan. 
  • If there is such a thing as Garnerball, there seems less room for Dobson in it. Seeing as he is our best player, we do need something in between as we can't afford not to play our best player IMO. I think he made a massive difference on Saturday. He is an annoying little bastard when he plays against you which is terrific and what we need.
    Man City had Fernandinho in their best sides. Steel is essential and , as I have said before , it’s not like Dobson can’t pass at all.  We are not that good that we don’t need a holding player 
  • Dobson is a decent passer, but his true ability is in reading play, tackling and breaking the oppositions attacks down. He also transforms our 4-3-3 into a 5-2-3 when defending which can be both a positive and a negative. 
  • 3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


  • In the first half we played a lot of straight low balls from defence intended to be received by a player with their back to goal.
    The Derby players frequently went round the intended recipients and got to the ball first. Hence an advanced turnover.
    I thought the players supposed to be receiving those passes were a bit slack and casual.
    I also think this is an area of play well within our compass to improve on.
  • shirty5 said:
    3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


    We won’t play as poorly as we did in the first half every week.
  • Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


    We won’t play as poorly as we did in the first half every week.
    Every week, don’t be daft. But we will get done sooner rather than later. Look at the sitter in the second half from Knight? 

    Not been a goal down yet. What will the reaction be to that? 
  • shirty5 said:
    Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


    We won’t play as poorly as we did in the first half every week.
    Every week, don’t be daft. But we will get done sooner rather than later. Look at the sitter in the second half from Knight? 

    Not been a goal down yet. What will the reaction be to that? 
    Maybe, it’s also possible we improve defensively. We need to find our best midfield three and I’m expecting a centre back to sign as we only have three seniors players in that position.

    We’ll have to wait and see. We’ve scored three well worked goals, I don’t think goalscoring will be as big an issue as some fear.
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  • Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


    We won’t play as poorly as we did in the first half every week.
    Every week, don’t be daft. But we will get done sooner rather than later. Look at the sitter in the second half from Knight? 

    Not been a goal down yet. What will the reaction be to that? 
    Maybe, it’s also possible we improve defensively. We need to find our best midfield three and I’m expecting a centre back to sign as we only have three seniors players in that position.

    We’ll have to wait and see. We’ve scored three well worked goals, I don’t think goalscoring will be as big an issue as some fear.
    We won’t play many sides like Derby who play the same style of game like us. Be more up the jumper from many teams and it’s how we deal with that. That point at Accrington as the season goes on could be looked us a good one. 
  • Miles is 18 and will be 19 in November. 
  • Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    Scoham said:
    shirty5 said:
    3 points by any means you take every day of the week and long may it continue but a side with better finishing in front of goal will punish that defence and you won’t be able to get your keeper to have a blinder every game.


    We won’t play as poorly as we did in the first half every week.
    Every week, don’t be daft. But we will get done sooner rather than later. Look at the sitter in the second half from Knight? 

    Not been a goal down yet. What will the reaction be to that? 
    Maybe, it’s also possible we improve defensively. We need to find our best midfield three and I’m expecting a centre back to sign as we only have three seniors players in that position.

    We’ll have to wait and see. We’ve scored three well worked goals, I don’t think goalscoring will be as big an issue as some fear.

    Keeping the goals out is my worry as we have rode our luck in both games and have the worst xg against stat in the league by some margin after 2 games with 3.8. Second on that list is Peterborough with 3.1 followed by Burton on 2.9.
  • Chunes said:

    I don't hate the XG stat but how on earth do Derby have a xg of 1.4?

    Absolute sitter in the second half, along with 2/3 in the first! 
  • Chunes said:

    I don't hate the XG stat but how on earth do Derby have a xg of 1.4?

    Absolute sitter in the second half, along with 2/3 in the first! 
    It also begs the question of when the xG for a chance is measured. The Albie shot would have had a moderate xG, but the rebound then became a high xG open goal!
  • edited August 2022
    Chunes said:

    I don't hate the XG stat but how on earth do Derby have a xg of 1.4?

    Absolute sitter in the second half, along with 2/3 in the first! 
    The 'absolute sitter' looks to have been assigned 0.15 - 0.2 xG, a bit more than Jayden's header that was from a similar distance late in the first half (Jayden received 0.1-0.15 xG). I suspect that's probably because it was a headed opportunity, which historically is a lower quality chance compared to other shots. If the Derby player had taken a shot with his foot from the same position, I'm guessing it'd be closer to 0.4.

    The two standout chances in the first half are both shots from the boot of James Collins. His first shot was assigned around 0.3 - 0.35 xG and the second shot right on half time was given around 0.4 xG. There was another impressive reflex save made by Wollacott but it didn't come from a shot so isn't included in the shots stats, or the xG stats. (Derby had only two shots on target, in the 8th minute and the 19th minute. But Wollacott made three "saves" including the reflex palm away.)

    According to this model, CBT had the best chance of the entire match. Near enough 0.5 xG with an open goal. This perhaps shows the limitation of making xG work with limited data in League One because I'd suggest that that was a better than 50/50 chance.
  • I don't know how this guy calculates his xG to be honest. 
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