McGrandles performance this evening reminded myself of being hungover on a Sunday morning and then playing at Hall Place and having no energy after 10 mins and wanting to come off and then working out only 11 had turned up.
Leyton Orient going great guns in League 2 so far - if they keep that up, and get promoted to League 1, next season we will have a London derby again, and I’ve always enjoyed a trip to Brisbane Road 😀
Dear God, it never ends. Can only imagine what he’d have brought to the show tonight. I think Lisbie is still doing the business for VCD or Cray or someone. Let’s see if he fancies a run out as well :-(
It’s becoming very evident that TS should probably sell up. I understand his reticence to invest given what he’s put in so far, with fees for Stockley, Kirk, Mansfield, Fraser and Lavelle, but if all he’s given Garner to work with is the budget to bring in a few free transfers from league 2, that don’t look like they’ll be near the top 6 come Jan, then what is the point.
You can’t tell me another couple of windows operating on the same budget/format that we’ve just had is going to push on, that’s not factoring in losing our ‘better players’ whoever they are.
This is absolutely looking like the beginning of the end for the TS era. He doesn’t want to invest, fair enough, but we are heading to paralysis and keeping our head above water on reputation alone. All the signs are there. The crowds, the frustration, the squad. The only way out of this mess is a new owner and I don’t want to say that after 2 and a bit years, but it’s just not working, nor will it
I think the least he could do is say something like
"We made some mistakes and now covid/brexit/energy crisis/recession/exchange rate/global trading conditions etc etc mean I can't execute the plan I had. It's going to be a tough few years but there will still be a club here in 3, 5, 10 years time'
I honestly think the mood would change completely. He has brought this all on himself.
No we shouldn't be happy with midtable league one football but in all honesty most of us would have taken it at the time. If that's what it said on the tin. It didn't that's why we are angry/disappointed or somewhere in between.
It’s becoming very evident that TS should probably sell up. I understand his reticence to invest given what he’s put in so far, with fees for Stockley, Kirk, Mansfield, Fraser and Lavelle, but if all he’s given Garner to work with is the budget to bring in a few free transfers from league 2, that don’t look like they’ll be near the top 6 come Jan, then what is the point.
You can’t tell me another couple of windows operating on the same budget/format that we’ve just had is going to push on, that’s not factoring in losing our ‘better players’ whoever they are.
This is absolutely looking like the beginning of the end for the TS era. He doesn’t want to invest, fair enough, but we are heading to paralysis and keeping our head above water on reputation alone. All the signs are there. The crowds, the frustration, the squad. The only way out of this mess is a new owner and I don’t want to say that after 2 and a bit years, but it’s just not working, nor will it
The next couple of windows are likely to see Clare and Dobson and probably some of our good youngsters leave. Why would they want to stay in a squad that, based on our last three games, look like they’re heading in one direction?
I totally agree with you @cabbles and, in contrast to the euphoria of the last night match, tonight just felt so deflating and the performance and experience was one of a team/club on the precipice of what could be our lowest ever point.
We’ve discussed it to death but how can Thomas and his band of knobheads not see that the dickhead pricing strategy is a disaster? The crass stupidity of the whole strategy will be proven by the lack of people turning up following the team playing well along with anyone with half a brain balking at paying £30+ to watch a bang average L1 team draw with Forest Green. Basically whether we’re winning or losing, it’s shite.
And, whilst I don’t want to criticise our new manager too much, you can’t play our substitute U18 striker from last season up front on his own against two big lump centre backs. Stockley hasn’t been great this season and this system doesn’t suit him but he’s the only man for the job at the moment and, after two tough games with few chances away to Wycombe and Bolton, tonight looked like a good chance for him to create some havoc and maybe pinch a goal.
A very frustrating evening for so many reasons and, unless BG can pick up a win very soon, I fear that toxicity levels may ramp up again very soon. Despite our league standing over the past 15 years, the majority of us (me included) ain’t quite ready to accept that we are going to remain a mid table League one team…..
Depressing evening. Tiny crowd. Lots of possession but the final ball is shocking. Clayden at the end clean through with a dreadful ball into the box and he was not the only one. A better team would have hit us on the break in the last 20 mins but FGR were happy to adopt the L1 norm of wasting time - keeper, throw ins, fake injuries, boring. We could end up in the bottom six at this rate and I would hate to see this side try and battle their way out of it. Chin made some good tackles but his team mates seemed reluctant to pass to him. This side was crying out for a Washington to break them down. I hate League 1 and I hate what our club is becoming in this hell hole division.
Leyton Orient going great guns in League 2 so far - if they keep that up, and get promoted to League 1, next season we will have a London derby again, and I’ve always enjoyed a trip to Brisbane Road 😀
McGrandles was just dire, one of the worst performances i've seen of a player in a Charlton shirt
Were you in the ground? If so where? He was tackling and passing well. Shouldn’t have got a yellow card but the ref was an extra man for the opposition.
I've defended him until now due to concussion and a broken hand. He may well need more time, but there is no denying he was terrible tonight & has been in every game he has featured in.
McGrandles was just dire, one of the worst performances i've seen of a player in a Charlton shirt
Were you in the ground? If so where? He was tackling and passing well. Shouldn’t have got a yellow card but the ref was an extra man for the opposition.
Seriously? Are you his old man or something? I'm not saying he won't come good, but he's been poor so far this season, and tonight was abysmal.
It’s becoming very evident that TS should probably sell up. I understand his reticence to invest given what he’s put in so far, with fees for Stockley, Kirk, Mansfield, Fraser and Lavelle, but if all he’s given Garner to work with is the budget to bring in a few free transfers from league 2, that don’t look like they’ll be near the top 6 come Jan, then what is the point.
You can’t tell me another couple of windows operating on the same budget/format that we’ve just had is going to push on, that’s not factoring in losing our ‘better players’ whoever they are.
This is absolutely looking like the beginning of the end for the TS era. He doesn’t want to invest, fair enough, but we are heading to paralysis and keeping our head above water on reputation alone. All the signs are there. The crowds, the frustration, the squad. The only way out of this mess is a new owner and I don’t want to say that after 2 and a bit years, but it’s just not working, nor will it
I think the least he could do is say something like
"We made some mistakes and now covid/brexit/energy crisis/recession/exchange rate/global trading conditions etc etc mean I can't execute the plan I had. It's going to be a tough few years but there will still be a club here in 3, 5, 10 years time'
I honestly think the mood would change completely. He has brought this all on himself.
No we shouldn't be happy with midtable league one football but in all honesty most of us would have taken it at the time. If that's what it said on the tin. It didn't that's why we are angry/disappointed or somewhere in between.
I agree. Btw I don’t dislike him and I am grateful for his investment to date. In some ways, I feel like he’s been short changed because he has stumped up some sizeable fees on the say so of others, but at the same time, his cavalier attitude to running a football club, putting his son in a footballing role with no experience, he’s also brought this on himself.
I took no notice of the blow the league out the water and wasn’t as worked up by that, it’s just his ott personality, and complete naivety of league one football. I also wasn’t that fussed about jams at the oak, but he’s gravely misjudged pretty much everything he’s touched so far. The days of a few chords with the fans are long gone now.
This has been a vanity purchase for him and although he’s a good guy (imo), the execution has been poor, and now, you can tell, he’s not willing to put the money in to turn it round. He’s under no obligation. We have no right to expect someone to spend money on us, but if he’s genuine about success, then he’ll have to, along with a lot of other changes.
It wouldn’t hurt to say something similar to the above, except that it would undermine everything he’s said so far.
It will be an interesting few months. If we have more performances like tonight, I can only see it getting ugly for him
Same Charlton, different personnel and management team. Lack lustre and not enough team investment means another season of mediocrity at the Valley. Carry on with the empty the Valley Campaign Mr Ego, it's about the only success you've had so far.
There were worrying signs in the Cambridge and Wycombe games, but there was always the "lots of business gets done at the end of the window" to keep things positive. Once we signed nobody, the harsh reality dawned that we have an average side, that doesn't have the cutting edge of a prolific striker up top BUT ALSO is vulnerable at the back.
I was wary beforehand about starting Leaburn down the middle, as I don't think he's ready to play there, and is much more effective in the wide positions at this stage. I was wary about yet another non left back being played at left back, and was a bit concerned about the number of changes.
As for the game, the first half was the usual story of not capitalising on our good periods and gifting a soft goal away. And once again when we've been good in the first half, the opposition change things in the second half and we can't cope. The most worrying thing to me is how vulnerable we looked at the back for the first 15/20 of the second half, a decent L1 team would have taken advantage of the attacking possession we conceded. We were so vulnerable to quick counter attacks, one ball behind the defence and they were in. And when we saved the first phase, we failed to clear the ball, letting them have another go.
In attack we seemed to be relying on individual moments of magic, with the likes of CBT, JRS and Payne running into the box with the ball, rather than creating goals through team play, Leaburn wasn't great but got no service, while the best cross for Stockley came from Morgan.
And what's happened to Stockley's heading ability, as that's meant to be his strength? Average L1 CBs are now finding it easy to cope with him, whereas when he first joined us, he would regularly beat them.
I can't say we deserved the win, our position in the table and points total is a fair reflection of our first 8 games.
It’s becoming very evident that TS should probably sell up. I understand his reticence to invest given what he’s put in so far, with fees for Stockley, Kirk, Mansfield, Fraser and Lavelle, but if all he’s given Garner to work with is the budget to bring in a few free transfers from league 2, that don’t look like they’ll be near the top 6 come Jan, then what is the point.
You can’t tell me another couple of windows operating on the same budget/format that we’ve just had is going to push on, that’s not factoring in losing our ‘better players’ whoever they are.
This is absolutely looking like the beginning of the end for the TS era. He doesn’t want to invest, fair enough, but we are heading to paralysis and keeping our head above water on reputation alone. All the signs are there. The crowds, the frustration, the squad. The only way out of this mess is a new owner and I don’t want to say that after 2 and a bit years, but it’s just not working, nor will it
The next couple of windows are likely to see Clare and Dobson and probably some of our good youngsters leave. Why would they want to stay in a squad that, based on our last three games, look like they’re heading in one direction?
I totally agree with you @cabbles and, in contrast to the euphoria of the last night match, tonight just felt so deflating and the performance and experience was one of a team/club on the precipice of what could be our lowest ever point.
We’ve discussed it to death but how can Thomas and his band of knobheads not see that the dickhead pricing strategy is a disaster? The crass stupidity of the whole strategy will be proven by the lack of people turning up following the team playing well along with anyone with half a brain balking at paying £30+ to watch a bang average L1 team draw with Forest Green. Basically whether we’re winning or losing, it’s shite.
And, whilst I don’t want to criticise our new manager too much, you can’t play our substitute U18 striker from last season up front on his own against two big lump centre backs. Stockley hasn’t been great this season and this system doesn’t suit him but he’s the only man for the job at the moment and, after two tough games with few chances away to Wycombe and Bolton, tonight looked like a good chance for him to create some havoc and maybe pinch a goal.
A very frustrating evening for so many reasons and, unless BG can pick up a win very soon, I fear that toxicity levels may ramp up again very soon. Despite our league standing over the past 15 years, the majority of us (me included) ain’t quite ready to accept that we are going to remain a mid table League one team…..
Depressing evening. Tiny crowd. Lots of possession but the final ball is shocking. Clayden at the end clean through with a dreadful ball into the box and he was not the only one. A better team would have hit us on the break in the last 20 mins but FGR were happy to adopt the L1 norm of wasting time - keeper, throw ins, fake injuries, boring. We could end up in the bottom six at this rate and I would hate to see this side try and battle their way out of it. Chin made some good tackles but his team mates seemed reluctant to pass to him. This side was crying out for a Washington to break them down. I hate League 1 and I hate what our club is becoming in this hell hole division.
And bear this in mind - in the hell hole times of the 1970’s and early 1980’s when we dropped into Div 3, we weren’t there very long - we got back into Div 2 - attendances were awful in one of the (still then) biggest grounds in England - albeit it was a dump - but we were by and large a ‘solid’ Div 2 club - look at how much time we have spent in Div 3 in recent times - this is, when you take a step back and think about it, one of the worst periods, on the pitch, that Charlton Athletic have ever had…..
Only read the first 2 pages & agreed with the vast majority of the posts so far.
So.....where do I start. Strikers win you games. That's why they usually cost more than defenders (I say usually as there are always exceptions). Been saying for months that we need an out & out striker. Stockley isnt it, and Leaburn is too young & sadly (on tonight's showing) is out of his depth. CBT has pace but lacks composure in front of goal. JRS is probably or best "forward" but dont be surprised when Palace recall him in January like Chelsea did with Gallagher. Prem teams dont want their best talent going to waste.
As for tonight. We should have been out of sight before they scored. But a 3rd tier team always has a mistake in them & tonight's fall guy was Woolacott. Last week it was Claydon - who will it be Saturday ?. Certainly not Clare or Innis as they will be safe & sound in the stands. Let's just hope Egbo is fit otherwise God knows who will be playing right back......perhaps I'll take my boots as I was pretty handy there back in the day.
I thought we got worse when we went 2 up front - JRS hardly touched the ball once he moved inside. Neither Stockley nor Leaburn are the answer upfront & now our season rests on whether Aneke can pull the Lazarus trick & come back from the dead. Otherwise our season will be just that......dead.
McGrandles was poor tonight but he wasn't the only one. If he's father had played for Charlton then maybe he'd get more than a couple of games before he's written off.
I would much rather see JFC playing as our left-back over Chin / Clayden, surely that makes the most sense over the other two options? He has played left-back a couple of times for us before from memory.
At least with him it’s an experienced player with a left foot on the left of the pitch who can fit the system, pass the ball and deliver into the box. Get him on that pitch.
Some ok possession, but overall a bit shite and something different needs to happen very soon if we are to ‘have a go’ this season. Chin was encouraging - why was he taken off. Wingers threatening in body language and movements alone - end product, other than CBT goal - woeful!
Conor McGrandles this season whipping boy?? FFS give him a chance.
He’s no scapegoat He’d struggle in my pub’s vets team never got the ball under control once gave away stupid fouls rightly booked only a moron or coward sends him out again 2nd half If Garner had a pair he had to hook him as soon as he got the yellow If he plays in the league again we’ll have to be down to our last XI registered bodies or Garner’s a tool
Leyton Orient going great guns in League 2 so far - if they keep that up, and get promoted to League 1, next season we will have a London derby again, and I’ve always enjoyed a trip to Brisbane Road 😀
Over and out
Failing that Welling have started well this season, with sandgaards break even attempt maybe we'll have a derby in the National League in a couple of years ?
Crying out for a top striker. A Clive Mendonca type who leads from the front and sticks away a chance. Thomas has effectively chucked away this season.
top strikers in any League cost lots .. Sandy talks a good fight but he's just not prepared to put the money (if he has any) where his mouth is .. Mendonca is a classic case of what a top striker can do for a club .. without him we'd'a never got into the Prem ever
This with knobs on.
Mendonca always scored goals. Finally we took a gamble & bought a striker that scored regularly & knew the division.
But not now. Now we are relying on a youngster who before the season started had not played League football. It's not Leaburn's fault but imo he is not ready for the step up.
Not criticising Miles Leaburn, but when his weakness is obvious against Forest Green, then you have to question his being a first team member.
I don't question him being a first team member, but he's not ready to lead the line, especially as a lone striker. Being successful up against a couple of horrible League One defenders requires experience that he just doesn't have yet.
The Strikers need support... CBT and Rak-Sakyi pretty much hug the touchlines either flank, whilst Leaburn is in the exposed and alone in the centre - Both need to come closer, bit like when Payne was doing just that because else he's controlling it and then having to play a riskier long ball out wide.
Ironically the best attempt a Striker had for us tonight was when Rak-Sakyi drifted into the middle, linked up with Stockley who sadly continues to have a thing for striking / heading the ball straight at Goalkeepers
Really the best two Rak-Sakyi had that header as well.
The problem with this team and last year and under Bowyer isnt the players are good enough. It's the players aren't the right ones, or blend of ones, to be better than the sum of the parts.
Everyone of our players is better than the Forest Green equivalent. We missed Kirk's delivery today but then you have to sacrifice the pace of CBT.
We can't get the midfield blend right. How do you get Stockley to score goals?
All the injured players SS would make us a little bit better, it would give us more depth as well, Aneke would be dangerous off the bench. But none of them would suddenly make us a much better team.
Not sure about that. Their eight was good, and the centre backs were trojans. How many crosses into the box did they cut out, and how many shots did they block?
We should have won that easily though, and with a bit of luck we would have. What this highlights though is that our first choice team is pretty good, but once we pick up injuries we’re mid table fodder.
Season over by September again. 433 doesn’t work, especially when it’s so predictable teams can set up to counter it. McGrandles reminded me of Christophe de Pointe, absolutely useless.
I feel sorry for everyone who was on HMS Tommy and believing we were actually gonna be good this year.
We are shatty crappy shit shat. Always were.
He's got a point here. If Gary Neville is still following the CL threads expect a massive plagiarism this weekend when he says "...Cristiano was ... shatty crappy shit shat today"!
At least we have no expectations now. It is kind of becalming. Bit like supporting a Shrewsbury, Rochdale or Mansfield.
Meet mates, have a few beers, chew the cud about life, watch a decent Prem game, shrug your shoulders because you know it will be ordinary at the game, few more beers, takeaway on the way home, watch Match of the Day. Happy days. Low expectations are the key to supporting Charlton and having a good day.
Hard to get too worked up. We're a mediocre L1 side and belong in this division.
I don't agree that we are mediocre. I think we play some pretty decent football & so far this season have been the better team in most of the games. But we fail to capitalise when we go ahead & have dropped points against Accrington, Cambridge, Bolton & tonight when leading. Not only can we not do a Golfie we are now not winning when ahead......something that was unheard of over the past couple of seasons.
And if we stay in this division too much longer I don't think I'll be attending many more games.
Leyton Orient going great guns in League 2 so far - if they keep that up, and get promoted to League 1, next season we will have a London derby again, and I’ve always enjoyed a trip to Brisbane Road 😀
Over and out
And we get to see Pratley kicking our midfield up in the air. Oh joy.
Season over by September again. 433 doesn’t work, especially when it’s so predictable teams can set up to counter it. McGrandles reminded me of Christophe de Pointe, absolutely useless.
My big concern with 433 or 4231 is how to defend the flanks properly. With "old fashioned" 442, it was clear that the winger and full back on each side would have to work together in attack and defence, whereas with our 433, the full backs frequently seem to be left exposed, as the 2 attacking wide players are meant to be goalscorers as well. It would be tough enough if we had an experienced LB at LB, but to have a young kid playing out of position being left exposed like that is madness.
Comments
Leyton Orient going great guns in League 2 so far - if they keep that up, and get promoted to League 1, next season we will have a London derby again, and I’ve always enjoyed a trip to Brisbane Road 😀
Over and out
"We made some mistakes and now covid/brexit/energy crisis/recession/exchange rate/global trading conditions etc etc mean I can't execute the plan I had. It's going to be a tough few years but there will still be a club here in 3, 5, 10 years time'
I honestly think the mood would change completely. He has brought this all on himself.
No we shouldn't be happy with midtable league one football but in all honesty most of us would have taken it at the time. If that's what it said on the tin. It didn't that's why we are angry/disappointed or somewhere in between.
We’ve discussed it to death but how can Thomas and his band of knobheads not see that the dickhead pricing strategy is a disaster? The crass stupidity of the whole strategy will be proven by the lack of people turning up following the team playing well along with anyone with half a brain balking at paying £30+ to watch a bang average L1 team draw with Forest Green. Basically whether we’re winning or losing, it’s shite.
A very frustrating evening for so many reasons and, unless BG can pick up a win very soon, I fear that toxicity levels may ramp up again very soon. Despite our league standing over the past 15 years, the majority of us (me included) ain’t quite ready to accept that we are going to remain a mid table League one team…..
Chin made some good tackles but his team mates seemed reluctant to pass to him.
This side was crying out for a Washington to break them down.
I hate League 1 and I hate what our club is becoming in this hell hole division.
He may well need more time, but there is no denying he was terrible tonight & has been in every game he has featured in.
It wouldn’t hurt to say something similar to the above, except that it would undermine everything he’s said so far.
I was wary beforehand about starting Leaburn down the middle, as I don't think he's ready to play there, and is much more effective in the wide positions at this stage. I was wary about yet another non left back being played at left back, and was a bit concerned about the number of changes.
As for the game, the first half was the usual story of not capitalising on our good periods and gifting a soft goal away. And once again when we've been good in the first half, the opposition change things in the second half and we can't cope. The most worrying thing to me is how vulnerable we looked at the back for the first 15/20 of the second half, a decent L1 team would have taken advantage of the attacking possession we conceded. We were so vulnerable to quick counter attacks, one ball behind the defence and they were in. And when we saved the first phase, we failed to clear the ball, letting them have another go.
In attack we seemed to be relying on individual moments of magic, with the likes of CBT, JRS and Payne running into the box with the ball, rather than creating goals through team play, Leaburn wasn't great but got no service, while the best cross for Stockley came from Morgan.
And what's happened to Stockley's heading ability, as that's meant to be his strength? Average L1 CBs are now finding it easy to cope with him, whereas when he first joined us, he would regularly beat them.
I can't say we deserved the win, our position in the table and points total is a fair reflection of our first 8 games.
So.....where do I start. Strikers win you games. That's why they usually cost more than defenders (I say usually as there are always exceptions). Been saying for months that we need an out & out striker. Stockley isnt it, and Leaburn is too young & sadly (on tonight's showing) is out of his depth. CBT has pace but lacks composure in front of goal. JRS is probably or best "forward" but dont be surprised when Palace recall him in January like Chelsea did with Gallagher. Prem teams dont want their best talent going to waste.
As for tonight. We should have been out of sight before they scored. But a 3rd tier team always has a mistake in them & tonight's fall guy was Woolacott. Last week it was Claydon - who will it be Saturday ?. Certainly not Clare or Innis as they will be safe & sound in the stands. Let's just hope Egbo is fit otherwise God knows who will be playing right back......perhaps I'll take my boots as I was pretty handy there back in the day.
I thought we got worse when we went 2 up front - JRS hardly touched the ball once he moved inside. Neither Stockley nor Leaburn are the answer upfront & now our season rests on whether Aneke can pull the Lazarus trick & come back from the dead. Otherwise our season will be just that......dead.
At least with him it’s an experienced player with a left foot on the left of the pitch who can fit the system, pass the ball and deliver into the box. Get him on that pitch.
never got the ball under control once
gave away stupid fouls
rightly booked
only a moron or coward sends him out again 2nd half
If Garner had a pair he had to hook him as soon as he got the yellow
If he plays in the league again we’ll have to be down to our last XI registered bodies or Garner’s a tool
Mendonca always scored goals. Finally we took a gamble & bought a striker that scored regularly & knew the division.
But not now. Now we are relying on a youngster who before the season started had not played League football. It's not Leaburn's fault but imo he is not ready for the step up.
And if we stay in this division too much longer I don't think I'll be attending many more games.