POST-MATCH THREAD: Derby County V Charlton Athletic: Saturday 18th February 2023: KO 3.00 Pm

charlton_hero

I'm not sure we should be commiting to Dean Holden just yet. 

msomerton

charlton_hero said:

I'm not sure we should be commiting to Dean Holden just yet. 

Spot on. Let's wait to the end of the season before we rush to judgement.

Pavoren007

You invest smartly and acquire quality, you get quality, just a question how the manager then gels the team with the right strategies? We are getting exactly what our owner deserves against any team with smarter investment and recruitment. Evidence there for all to see today. 

Thought DH could have done something different and sooner today to shake the approach up. I would have taken CBT off before half time and Bonne and Morgan off at HT for, example and tried 5-3-2.

KettsJohn

msomerton said:

Thev gulf in class between us and top teams is vast.
We were never in the game let's hope we canfind 5 more wins.

I agree the gulf was significant. There is no way of we will go down though. It's mid table mediocrity, exactly where we deserve to be 

Fanny Fanackapan

Another good away day spoilt by the football, or rather the lack of it from the boys in red & white.

Honestly feel very down tonight, partly due to the journey home taking almost twice as long as it should due to a 45 minute slow crawl down the M1 around Luton & yet another matchday diversion on the A21 just to put the boot in, which is more than some of our players did.

But, today's performance was little short of shocking IMO. Yes, we do have a limited squad which I felt today was magnified by the lack of strength on our bench - something I'd been satisfied with before the mini clear out in January with several decent options available. But as another Lifer pointed out earlier, I didn't feel our lads could be described a giving gut busting performances or leaving nothing on the pitch which is one of Brownie's favourite sayings. Perhaps I'm being harsh & failing to give due credit to the Rams but I felt our passing was well below par & as such, put us in difficult positions time after time....something I like to think isn't normally as glaringly obvious as it was today. 

OK, perhaps too many had "off " days but we looked lacklustre all over the pitch. I don't enjoy singling out particular players but I couldn't help but notice the amount of times that Fraser lost the ball. He seemed to need far too much time before laying it off to a team mate which was concerning for someone I had thought could be this season's POTY until the last handful of matches. And, I could be the first tonight to mention the disappointment in Chuks' contribution when he entered the fray. A decent cameo appearance is what we need and indeed, expect from him but he seemed to have very little in his locker and offered even less this afternoon. An enigmatic player that we know is capable of producing some much needed magic in his limited minutes on the pitch when fit, has to offer more surely. 

So, a frustrated Fanny  will be hoping to wake up tomorrow with a lighter heart than the one climbing the apples & pears any minute and to a victory for our boys in NZ. Whether the enthusiasm & even excitement historically felt as the next match approaches, will reappear in 6 days' time remains to be seen which is a growing concern.

The fact that it isn't a given, is in itself difficult to admit. 

SouthWest_Addicks

Remember going Sheffield last season and seeing us get absolutely humiliated and losing 2-0. Today felt similar. Just chasing shadows for 90 mins. There was no point when we dominated the ball. We are similar mid table rubbish that the top 6 needs to put away to ensure they are competing for promotion.

cabbles

se9addick said:

That’s another example, after Bolton a couple of weeks ago, of how far we are from being competitive in this league. 

It also highlights that the likes of Fraser and CBT aren’t good enough either.  After the cull in Jan, I would imagine some people perceive these players as ones to potentially kick us on.  It’s very clear they’re not good enough to get you out of this league.  They would be far more consistent and more of a threat if so.  They’re good enough to get you a result against the likes of FGR and teams lower down than us, but when tested against the better teams, they’re exposed for the average players they are 

cabbles

This is the same as it panned out last season pretty much, bar the change in timing of Holden replacing Garner.  

You have to ask yourself, other than Dobson and a few of the young lads coming through, would you really care if you saw any of the rest of the current squad play for us again?  If the answer is yes and you try to argue for x or y, then I you deserve another season watching us scramble around in mid to lower league one imo 

SDAddick

Chunes said:

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

Another one who starts regularly for us and yet if he were to leave, would likely struggle to find a club in this league

I'm not so sure about that. I could see him stepping down a level, or I could see him starting every week for a club in this league willing to play to his strengths (not a top six or even top half club though). 

He's also started 13/31, some of that down to McGrandles getting hurt twice.

This is not to defend Albie, he remains a baffling player for me. But there is a player there, but I have no idea how to get the best out of him. 

Sage

Everything is a mess and it’s now got to the point where we were last year. Players on short term contracts or contracts up in the summer, a manager who doesn’t know his future, a team who aren’t performing, going through the motions and playing like they haven’t got a clue what they’re supposed to be doing, and an ownership situation that’s quite frankly shambolic.

We’re so far away from being a top League One team, it’s sad and embarrassing. But why would we think we would even be one next season when yet another huge rebuild is needed and no one knows who and what is going to be here for it?

You have clubs that have been building up over the last couple of years. 3 of the 4 in the play-offs who don’t go up will be strong again. The 3 coming down will be strong. Peterborough and Portsmouth ought to be too. It’s not going to be easy or just a case of sorting a few things out ready to kick on. Our club needs an overhaul throughout and yet it desperately needs stability too.

It sounds stupid because it’s not difficult to understand but to get out of this league you need a really strong spine. You need 3 centre backs who are experienced, solid, leaders who won’t give up unenforced chances. You need at least 3 central midfielders who can play, get around the pitch, compete, defend and attack, chip in with goals, and a really key one that our current team love to do and it drives me crazy, not go wandering and missing and leaving huge gaping holes everywhere. And lastly, you need at least 1, but more likely 2 strikers, who will each get double figures and cause problems for the opposing defences far, far more than our strikers do now. Then, you need to make sure those 8 players are fit for the majority of the season.

I understand that this isn’t specifically about the Derby game, and I was there and had to go through it like another 1500 other Addicks. But it once again highlights how far away we are from that top 6, let alone the current top 2. 

golfaddick

Son come in earlier & told me that a striker hasn't scored for 9 games (Peterborough when Kanu set Leaburn up). That must have been Boxing Day. 

I've got a season ticket so will still go to the odd game before the season ends, but then no more. I'm not going to invest my hard earned until the club decides that they want to get out of this league & buy a striker who will score 18+ goals. Not bits & pieces players who chip in with 6 or 8 a season, or out of contract no-hopers like Josh Parker, Hemed & Bonne.

My son suggested the bloke at Notts County who scored a hat trick today. Jeez - imagine having a player who could score 3 in a match. Ours are lucky to get 3 in a season.

Chunes

SDAddick said:

Chunes said:

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

Another one who starts regularly for us and yet if he were to leave, would likely struggle to find a club in this league

I'm not so sure about that. I could see him stepping down a level, or I could see him starting every week for a club in this league willing to play to his strengths (not a top six or even top half club though). 

He's also started 13/31, some of that down to McGrandles getting hurt twice.

This is not to defend Albie, he remains a baffling player for me. But there is a player there, but I have no idea how to get the best out of him. 

We don't play to his strengths? Surely we have done at some point under Garner, JJ, Adkins, Bowyer or Holden. He's not done it under any of them. He's been dropped by all of them. 

000__Jaaaaay__000

Genuinely think is about time we started having a conversation about Scott Fraser - doesn’t defend whatsoever and is incredibly inconsistent for a player who once called himself one of the best midfielders in the league. Runs as if he’s got two bricks tied to his boots 

KiwiValley

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Another good away day spoilt by the football, or rather the lack of it from the boys in red & white.

Honestly feel very down tonight, partly due to the journey home taking almost twice as long as it should due to a 45 minute slow crawl down the M1 around Luton & yet another matchday diversion on the A21 just to put the boot in, which is more than some of our players did.

But, today's performance was little short of shocking IMO. Yes, we do have a limited squad which I felt today was magnified by the lack of strength on our bench - something I'd been satisfied with before the mini clear out in January with several decent options available. But as another Lifer pointed out earlier, I didn't feel our lads could be described a giving gut busting performances or leaving nothing on the pitch which is one of Brownie's favourite sayings. Perhaps I'm being harsh & failing to give due credit to the Rams but I felt our passing was well below par & as such, put us in difficult positions time after time....something I like to think isn't normally as glaringly obvious as it was today. 

OK, perhaps too many had "off " days but we looked lacklustre all over the pitch. I don't enjoy singling out particular players but I couldn't help but notice the amount of times that Fraser lost the ball. He seemed to need far too much time before laying it off to a team mate which was concerning for someone I had thought could be this season's POTY until the last handful of matches. And, I could be the first tonight to mention the disappointment in Chuks' contribution when he entered the fray. A decent cameo appearance is what we need and indeed, expect from him but he seemed to have very little in his locker and offered even less this afternoon. An enigmatic player that we know is capable of producing some much needed magic in his limited minutes on the pitch when fit, has to offer more surely. 

So, a frustrated Fanny  will be hoping to wake up tomorrow with a lighter heart than the one climbing the apples & pears any minute and to a victory for our boys in NZ. Whether the enthusiasm & even excitement historically felt as the next match approaches, will reappear in 6 days' time remains to be seen which is a growing concern.

The fact that it isn't a given, is in itself difficult to admit. 

Oh do kindly f*ck off, Fanny… 😘

Chris_from_Sidcup

Was chatting to a guy yesterday who supports Luton, he was talking about how well run they are, great recruitment over spending a fortune, everyone fits a system, no matter who leaves there's a player who can step in, flying high in the championship above clubs who spend far more.

Then we got to talking about us. One guy owns the ground, one guy owns the club, if someone meets their price both would sell, yet the guy who owns the club wants to cling on to a %, recruitment is a shambles, a bunch of loans and players no one else wants, treading water in mid-table in league one, routinely beaten by clubs with a budget supposedly way less than ours.

We're a complete fucking mess.

Chris_from_Sidcup

ct_addick said:

2 pages on the post match thread sums it up…no one cares any more this season 

I know what you mean. I'm in 2 Charlton whatsapp groups and there wasn't a single message on either group yesterday. Season is over and interest is at an all time low. I didn't even bother to watch the game, instead went out with some mates and watched Villa/Arsenal and Forest/City.

Of course we all care about the club but until the ownership gets resolved we're just going to tread water in the lower reaches of this shit division. 

Wellred

bobmunro said:

oohaahmortimer said:

I’m struggling to work out is Clare a crap good player or a good crap player 

He is very good at being a crap player.

& Crap at being a good player 

blackpool72

Chunes said:

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

Another one who starts regularly for us and yet if he were to leave, would likely struggle to find a club in this league

If he ends up playing non league he only has himself to blame. 
He has been in and around the first team for about 4 years and made over 100 appearances in that time. 
The fact he has not improved is down to him.

oohaahmortimer

Bonne looks expensive on a free 
QPR couldn’t give him away

as pointed out by Golfie when will a striker score a goal for us
Leaburn , Bonne , Kanu and Chucks 
15 games left will they get 0-5, 6-10, 11-15 or 15+😂 between them .

yes there’s a lack of creativity but there’s a lack of finishing ability too which adds up to barrenness 

Callumcafc

It’s got to the point where I don’t even think promotion should be the target for next season, let alone this one. We just need a sensible ownership that is willing and able to get this club’s momentum going in the right direction again.

In football, a lot can change very quickly. But not for Charlton. I’m forecasting at least another two years in this god awful league unfortunately.

AdTheAddicK

SDAddick said:

Chunes said:

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

Another one who starts regularly for us and yet if he were to leave, would likely struggle to find a club in this league

I'm not so sure about that. I could see him stepping down a level, or I could see him starting every week for a club in this league willing to play to his strengths (not a top six or even top half club though). 

He's also started 13/31, some of that down to McGrandles getting hurt twice.

This is not to defend Albie, he remains a baffling player for me. But there is a player there, but I have no idea how to get the best out of him. 

Play to his strengths? What are those exactly? 

palarsehater

charlton_hero said:

I'm not sure we should be commiting to Dean Holden just yet. 

I agree with this I mean what’s he done that’s so fantastic apart from say the fans are great and that he had a pint in the in the Royal Oak 

JamesSeed

SDAddick said:

Chunes said:

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

Another one who starts regularly for us and yet if he were to leave, would likely struggle to find a club in this league

I'm not so sure about that. I could see him stepping down a level, or I could see him starting every week for a club in this league willing to play to his strengths (not a top six or even top half club though). 

He's also started 13/31, some of that down to McGrandles getting hurt twice.

This is not to defend Albie, he remains a baffling player for me. But there is a player there, but I have no idea how to get the best out of him. 

I wish I knew what his strengths are.

Raith_C_Chattonell

cabbles said:

se9addick said:

That’s another example, after Bolton a couple of weeks ago, of how far we are from being competitive in this league. 

It also highlights that the likes of Fraser and CBT aren’t good enough either.  After the cull in Jan, I would imagine some people perceive these players as ones to potentially kick us on.  It’s very clear they’re not good enough to get you out of this league.  They would be far more consistent and more of a threat if so.  They’re good enough to get you a result against the likes of FGR and teams lower down than us, but when tested against the better teams, they’re exposed for the average players they are 

When I read the back stories of the players we signed i.e. journeymen / inexperienced / lacking game time / not wanted elsewhere / injury prone etc it became obvious to me that it was never the intention to kick on - it was more a gamble on survival.  That gang of four was put together to economise and (hopefully) retain our league one status only. 

Andy Scott as a so called proper football man should hang his head in shame imo.  Cor blimey, he could most certainly talk the talk, but in substance he was just another yes man treading the corporate line.  No doubt he picked up a big fat cheque, but for what?  Six weeks of taking the piss out of us fans.

As for the players I'm sure they're doing their best, but set against the promotion contenders they're just swimming against the tide.

Sillybilly

RonnieMoore said:

Don’t think you can say there a massive difference between the two sides .. I think it’s pretty clear we can’t and don’t have the players to play 433 ..we just don’t have the quality on the flanks to create the chances .. most of Derbys best moments come from us losing the ball time and time again ….midfield totally out outplayed today there also seem to be 3 derby players to one of ours , Holden should have changed it at ht . Again I ask the question what did we create ? one chance by Bonne for Raki ?? Not good enough from the wide areas and central mid .

 Now we seen Hector think we can go 3 at the back pushing Clare up as wing back .. make us stronger in midfield . CBT and Raki would not play them next week try something different . 

Bonne done well today did not deserve to come off .. MOM Clare he was excellent again 

This constant wummery was never amusing but is now beyond a joke. It is difficult enough to maintain an interest at the moment without having to read this constant formulaic drivel every other thread. 

SoundAsa£

Lincsaddick said:

We never gave up but were outplayed and outskilled by a better team on the day .. as all too often, little punch in attack, little midfield creativity despite a lot of possession ..  we still gave it a go, but as said, simply outplayed .. Hector was decent at bringing the ball out of defence, Fraser was good in the middle, as we all know though, we lack class right across the squad ..  money needs to be spent in the close season, BUT where will it be coming from ?

“little punch in attack”…….make that ‘non existent’ punch in attack.

clive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBMCQppvXRA

SoundAsa£

SouthWest_Addicks said:

Remember going Sheffield last season and seeing us get absolutely humiliated and losing 2-0. Today felt similar. Just chasing shadows for 90 mins. There was no point when we dominated the ball. We are similar mid table rubbish that the top 6 needs to put away to ensure they are competing for promotion.

Do you mean going “to” Sheffield….😠😠😠

Cafc43v3r

AFKABartram said:

Someone tell me Albie Morgan has a contract where he is guaranteed a start every 3 or 4 games. It must be the case, I just can’t for life of me see how so many managers keep giving him starts. 

It's not the starting I don't understand, it's never the case the other bloke has been playing well.

It's the being totally frozen out for weeks, or even months at a time, some times not even making the bench, then suddenly starting again.

Bowyer did it, Jackson did it, Garner did it, Holden's done it.  Adkins never really had enough players, or long enough, to do it.

iainambler

Given our most recent performances, the old saying that “We couldn’t score in a brothel” comes to mind. 

In which case can someone please sign up Wayne Rooney? 

On a serious note, we need an owner who is truly in it for the long haul. Not a quick turnover for a fast buck. Matt Southall is a case in point of  what happens when people want the money before the hard graft is done - he very nearly took the club into administration. Whilst we aren’t there at the moment, as far as I can tell, we’re going to be consigned to bumbling around between Leagues One and Two if the ownership isn’t careful.