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POST-MATCH THREAD: Derby County V Charlton Athletic: Saturday 18th February 2023: KO 3.00 Pm

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  • JamesSeed said:
    shirty5 said:
    Son come in earlier & told me that a striker hasn't scored for 9 games (Peterborough when Kanu set Leaburn up). That must have been Boxing Day. 

    I've got a season ticket so will still go to the odd game before the season ends, but then no more. I'm not going to invest my hard earned until the club decides that they want to get out of this league & buy a striker who will score 18+ goals. Not bits & pieces players who chip in with 6 or 8 a season, or out of contract no-hopers like Josh Parker, Hemed & Bonne.

    My son suggested the bloke at Notts County who scored a hat trick today. Jeez - imagine having a player who could score 3 in a match. Ours are lucky to get 3 in a season.
    Leaburn scored against Oxford on the 29th December but it’s 9 League and Cup games without a goal now for the striker up top (Whoever that incumbent maybe) in 2023. 
    It’s not just an indication that our striker is misfiring, it also shows that we’re not creating enough chances. You’d expect the odd tap in for a front man, if you’re playing decent attacking football. 
    For me the main issue is our midfield where only Dobbo is good enough. 
    I agree re the lack of creativity. 

    Firstly you don't have the creative midfielder who can play the front man in & then the 2 wide players don't cross the ball for the striker to attack....especially CBT who plays on the left but cant cross with his left foot. 

    And our top goal scorer is on loan and will 100% not be here next season. So, as it stands, the team will be a lot worse next season as the summer "rebuild" will be as useless as the previous ones. 
  • On a plus, from the platform at Derby to leaving Sidcup station in under 2hrs 20 mins was a right result
    On the plus side, coach back from leaving Derby to Larkfield was 12hrs 20 mins, a right result 
  • Was at the match, just plain awful, thought we would get hammered but 2-0 i could settle with.

    Special praise to those Charlton fans who stood on staircase 50 and blocked every ones access and egress to their seats, and spent most of the time relaying premiership scores and giving the Derby fans to our left the 'V' and the usual shakin fist. You did our club proud.
  • Wellred said:
    It’s got to the point where I don’t even think promotion should be the target for next season, let alone this one. We just need a sensible ownership that is willing and able to get this club’s momentum going in the right direction again.

    In football, a lot can change very quickly. But not for Charlton. I’m forecasting at least another two years in this god awful league unfortunately.
    We should look to get out of this league ASAP 
    Another two years in this league would kill us off 
    No doubt we will be out of this league in 2 years......by being relegated to league 2.

    Unless a new owner comes in with serious intentions to rebuild the squad by spending some money then I have no doubt we will be worse next season & the season after. If we didnt have JRS we'd be in the bottom 6 by now. 
  • Was at the match, just plain awful, thought we would get hammered but 2-0 i could settle with.

    Special praise to those Charlton fans who stood on staircase 50 and blocked every ones access and egress to their seats, and spent most of the time relaying premiership scores and giving the Derby fans to our left the 'V' and the usual shakin fist. You did our club proud.
    Ah !!

    The usual ‘following Charlton away’, accompanied by a section of melts, who ruin your day if you are unfortunate enough to be near them in the away end

    At Port Vale away, my mates and I spotted them before k/o, and away end there big enough to quickly move, and still have good view of pitch (Charlton were of course shit though) - however, we get on train (which was busy), found our seats, only to find that we were in with the melts 🤦🏻

    Cue intervention by on-board British Transport Police
  • The bottom line is that, almost without exception, our players aren't quite good enough, no matter what system we play.

    They're also inconsistent:

    Sessegnon: Thought he looked good, but has been poor in our last two or three games, probably because he's struggling physically.
    Corey B-T: Has pace and has looked good in a few games, but really awful in others.
    Morgan: Has looked quite good in two or three games, but pretty dire in the rest.
    Clare: Clearly has talent, but isn't a right back. Surely we should try him in midfield. Can't be worse than what we have?
    Penney, Kilkenny: Really not sure, but haven't started well. Neither are first choice.
    Kane: ? Who knows.
    Bonne: Not good enough
    Fraser: Most of the time not really good enough, sorry.

    Dean Holden: Not sure we can blame him when he only has these players at his disposal.
    The only way we get out of this mess is with new owners with money who know what they're doing, or who are prepared to bring in people who do.
  • There were a few Coventry fans who were on the train back home who asked about Kane.

    They said we were welcome to him as he is crap and has bit of a reputation for being a bit naughty outside of the football arena.
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  • Sage said:

    ...It sounds stupid because it’s not difficult to understand but to get out of this league you need a really strong spine...
    Having spent the two previous paragraphs discussing the systemic failures at our club, I thought this line was going to refer to the need for resolute and determined club leadership/ownership rather than a strong central formation on the pitch. You are, of course, correct but I think this sentence also applies to what happens off the pitch. I know I'm straying into takeover thread territory but the last thing we need is someone in charge that's in it for some short-term flip. We desperately need an owner with spine who's going to stick around and manage the club professionally whilst they do so. 
  • On reflection, a pretty sobering experience yesterday. Derby are a ‘proper’ club; decent stadium, great fan numbers and vocal support, players busting a gut to win the 50/50s, even the additional minutes and the substitutions were brought to you in association of different sponsors.

    It brought home yesterday we are an absolute world away from your Derby’s having spent a couple of decades on a par. 

    Holden said after the game Derby went into this absolutely flying at the moment. They’d lost and drawn their two games before this, Yet they knew if they went at us with a fast pace they could get at us. Any team with the mentality to go out and fight and graft for the points look like they’re going to get them against us as we are powderpuff, make a huge amount of individual mistakes when pressurised and leave gaping holes.

    No one is smashing us, it’s all fairly marginal, but I fear we’re in for a depressing run in when playing teams still with something to play for. 
    At at the end of the day we lost to two goals, one a handball in the box and other off a free kick from what was a perfectly clean tackle. 

    Dobson probably the only player to emerge with any real credit yesterday and that’s not a one off when we put out a weak offerIng. How we get this bunch scoring goals I’m not sure but it won’t happen with 1 up top using any of them. We’ve got to find a way of utilising two up front.

    Unfortunately that's it. we look so vulnerable. When forest green bothered to do the same we were lost at sea. Crosses couldn't be dealt with, possession lost, backs to the wall and no idea how to break out. Cant take any pressure and can't counter it. 
  • Sage said:
    Everything is a mess and it’s now got to the point where we were last year. Players on short term contracts or contracts up in the summer, a manager who doesn’t know his future, a team who aren’t performing, going through the motions and playing like they haven’t got a clue what they’re supposed to be doing, and an ownership situation that’s quite frankly shambolic.

    We’re so far away from being a top League One team, it’s sad and embarrassing. But why would we think we would even be one next season when yet another huge rebuild is needed and no one knows who and what is going to be here for it?

    You have clubs that have been building up over the last couple of years. 3 of the 4 in the play-offs who don’t go up will be strong again. The 3 coming down will be strong. Peterborough and Portsmouth ought to be too. It’s not going to be easy or just a case of sorting a few things out ready to kick on. Our club needs an overhaul throughout and yet it desperately needs stability too.

    It sounds stupid because it’s not difficult to understand but to get out of this league you need a really strong spine. You need 3 centre backs who are experienced, solid, leaders who won’t give up unenforced chances. You need at least 3 central midfielders who can play, get around the pitch, compete, defend and attack, chip in with goals, and a really key one that our current team love to do and it drives me crazy, not go wandering and missing and leaving huge gaping holes everywhere. And lastly, you need at least 1, but more likely 2 strikers, who will each get double figures and cause problems for the opposing defences far, far more than our strikers do now. Then, you need to make sure those 8 players are fit for the majority of the season.

    I understand that this isn’t specifically about the Derby game, and I was there and had to go through it like another 1500 other Addicks. But it once again highlights how far away we are from that top 6, let alone the current top 2. 
    Spot on. Couldn’t agree more with that summation.
  • Sage said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    shirty5 said:
    Son come in earlier & told me that a striker hasn't scored for 9 games (Peterborough when Kanu set Leaburn up). That must have been Boxing Day. 

    I've got a season ticket so will still go to the odd game before the season ends, but then no more. I'm not going to invest my hard earned until the club decides that they want to get out of this league & buy a striker who will score 18+ goals. Not bits & pieces players who chip in with 6 or 8 a season, or out of contract no-hopers like Josh Parker, Hemed & Bonne.

    My son suggested the bloke at Notts County who scored a hat trick today. Jeez - imagine having a player who could score 3 in a match. Ours are lucky to get 3 in a season.
    Leaburn scored against Oxford on the 29th December but it’s 9 League and Cup games without a goal now for the striker up top (Whoever that incumbent maybe) in 2023. 
    9 of our last 13 goals have been scored by one of the 3 as well though. Other than that 2 for Fraser, 1 for Morgan and an OG.

    The idea of a front 3 isn't the problem.  It's the player in the middle. 
    It’s not though. It’s the fact that the wide players offer nothing defensively so our midfield gets split, leaving Dobson in the middle on his own, creating huge gaping holes, and an overload in dangerous areas. It’s also why we often have opposition get at our defence so quickly and easily. It’s not acceptable that this has been going on now for so long without being addressed. Then if we do win the ball back, whoever is the main striker is already isolated and yet we play the ball direct up to them with no support and no one to flick it on to if they do win the ball.

    It’s also a reason why the diamond under Bowyer worked so well because players were never left isolated and teams never had a free run at our defence with a missing midfield.

    Bonne is not a lone striker and cannot hold the ball, Aneke can but can’t last 90 mins. So you need to find a way of getting support for them, or playing with a front two. CBT and Rak-Sakyi are dangerous in this league and proven to score goals. But when they’re quiet or not 100% at it, they’re poor or players who we’re then carrying. 

    There’s so much wrong with this team. Another example is I like Clare but he’s not a right back and so our right hand side is a huge weak point defensively and opponents know this. It means it brings another one of our midfielders over to cover and help and leaves more space in dangerous central areas. Why do we think teams often get the time and space to shoot and score from outside the box? The midfield are not close enough because they’re constantly having to cover for their teammates who either can’t do the job or don’t do it. Even worse when one of those midfielders are expected to be the player getting close and supporting the main striker.

    For us, all it takes is one area of the pitch to not be working and the whole lot falls apart unless we get saved by a tackle or interception from someone like Dobson. But that can’t happen every time.

    We are a team who regularly give away unenforced chances due to mistakes but that only counts for a percentage of the 43 goals we’ve already conceded this season. There are many reasons why we’ve conceded so many. But a big reason why we give away chances from our own mistakes is because the movement is either nonexistent or absolutely shocking, leaving players too scared to pass, too much time on the ball, and little or no options to do anything with. We are on course to concede 64 goals this season, 24 more than when we got promoted last time, the same amount Bolton have conceded all season.

    Can’t wait for this season to be over but I hope that things off the field get sorted very, very quickly because otherwise, next season will be far worse than this.
    I agree with all of that but the solution isn't "two up top".  
  • golfaddick said:
    JamesSeed said:
    shirty5 said:
    golfaddick said:
    Son come in earlier & told me that a striker hasn't scored for 9 games (Peterborough when Kanu set Leaburn up). That must have been Boxing Day. 

    I've got a season ticket so will still go to the odd game before the season ends, but then no more. I'm not going to invest my hard earned until the club decides that they want to get out of this league & buy a striker who will score 18+ goals. Not bits & pieces players who chip in with 6 or 8 a season, or out of contract no-hopers like Josh Parker, Hemed & Bonne.

    My son suggested the bloke at Notts County who scored a hat trick today. Jeez - imagine having a player who could score 3 in a match. Ours are lucky to get 3 in a season.
    Leaburn scored against Oxford on the 29th December but it’s 9 League and Cup games without a goal now for the striker up top (Whoever that incumbent maybe) in 2023. 
    It’s not just an indication that our striker is misfiring, it also shows that we’re not creating enough chances. You’d expect the odd tap in for a front man, if you’re playing decent attacking football. 
    For me the main issue is our midfield where only Dobbo is good enough. 
    I agree re the lack of creativity. 

    Firstly you don't have the creative midfielder who can play the front man in & then the 2 wide players don't cross the ball for the striker to attack....especially CBT who plays on the left but cant cross with his left foot. 

    And our top goal scorer is on loan and will 100% not be here next season. So, as it stands, the team will be a lot worse next season as the summer "rebuild" will be as useless as the previous ones. 

    You have even considered that we could sign him on a permanent. Lol

  • a question the game against Derby raises is. How is it we cannot attract the quality of out of contract players that Derby have achieved, remembering that they are under a ban at the moment that means they could not buy players.
    They also have a large number of youth players in the squad as well.
  • I agree top six won't happen but I'm not so sure bottom four is not going to happen. The last few games have proved that we can't beat the good teams and also we can't beat the poorer teams who park the bus at the Valley, this leaves 5 away games that we might have a chance to win while at home with the poor pitch and our inability to beat the good teams and the poor bus parkers we might not win again at home this season.
    Add to this the ownership difficulties which must affect the team management and players I think we are in for a relegation battle.
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  • They also have a celling of 12k which is probably way more than we are likely to pay. You are not going to get Conor Hourihane for less that that.
  • msomerton said:
    a question the game against Derby raises is. How is it we cannot attract the quality of out of contract players that Derby have achieved, remembering that they are under a ban at the moment that means they could not buy players.
    They also have a large number of youth players in the squad as well.
    I don't think we're prepared to pay the wages.
  • edited February 2023
    According to Salary Sport our weekly wage bill is £99,000, and Derby’s is £151,000. 
    It’s easy to blame the Gallen, but it looks like his hands are tied. 
  • Sage said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    shirty5 said:
    Son come in earlier & told me that a striker hasn't scored for 9 games (Peterborough when Kanu set Leaburn up). That must have been Boxing Day. 

    I've got a season ticket so will still go to the odd game before the season ends, but then no more. I'm not going to invest my hard earned until the club decides that they want to get out of this league & buy a striker who will score 18+ goals. Not bits & pieces players who chip in with 6 or 8 a season, or out of contract no-hopers like Josh Parker, Hemed & Bonne.

    My son suggested the bloke at Notts County who scored a hat trick today. Jeez - imagine having a player who could score 3 in a match. Ours are lucky to get 3 in a season.
    Leaburn scored against Oxford on the 29th December but it’s 9 League and Cup games without a goal now for the striker up top (Whoever that incumbent maybe) in 2023. 
    9 of our last 13 goals have been scored by one of the 3 as well though. Other than that 2 for Fraser, 1 for Morgan and an OG.

    The idea of a front 3 isn't the problem.  It's the player in the middle. 
    It’s not though. It’s the fact that the wide players offer nothing defensively so our midfield gets split, leaving Dobson in the middle on his own, creating huge gaping holes, and an overload in dangerous areas. It’s also why we often have opposition get at our defence so quickly and easily. It’s not acceptable that this has been going on now for so long without being addressed. Then if we do win the ball back, whoever is the main striker is already isolated and yet we play the ball direct up to them with no support and no one to flick it on to if they do win the ball.

    It’s also a reason why the diamond under Bowyer worked so well because players were never left isolated and teams never had a free run at our defence with a missing midfield.

    Bonne is not a lone striker and cannot hold the ball, Aneke can but can’t last 90 mins. So you need to find a way of getting support for them, or playing with a front two. CBT and Rak-Sakyi are dangerous in this league and proven to score goals. But when they’re quiet or not 100% at it, they’re poor or players who we’re then carrying. 

    There’s so much wrong with this team. Another example is I like Clare but he’s not a right back and so our right hand side is a huge weak point defensively and opponents know this. It means it brings another one of our midfielders over to cover and help and leaves more space in dangerous central areas. Why do we think teams often get the time and space to shoot and score from outside the box? The midfield are not close enough because they’re constantly having to cover for their teammates who either can’t do the job or don’t do it. Even worse when one of those midfielders are expected to be the player getting close and supporting the main striker.

    For us, all it takes is one area of the pitch to not be working and the whole lot falls apart unless we get saved by a tackle or interception from someone like Dobson. But that can’t happen every time.

    We are a team who regularly give away unenforced chances due to mistakes but that only counts for a percentage of the 43 goals we’ve already conceded this season. There are many reasons why we’ve conceded so many. But a big reason why we give away chances from our own mistakes is because the movement is either nonexistent or absolutely shocking, leaving players too scared to pass, too much time on the ball, and little or no options to do anything with. We are on course to concede 64 goals this season, 24 more than when we got promoted last time, the same amount Bolton have conceded all season.

    Can’t wait for this season to be over but I hope that things off the field get sorted very, very quickly because otherwise, next season will be far worse than this.
    Player recruitment should include additional2 questions
    1) Are you match fit?
    2) Can you tackle?
  • Leuth said:
    That was depressing. But what was worst was that Derby fucking fill their stadium. The tannoy announced an attendance number slightly higher than The Valley's capacity. Derby have been shit for ages and have had their own ownership nonsense and they fucking fill their stadium. What do we do? 
    Which is why they are more likely to be more successful than us. 
  • CafcWest said:
    Sky Sports "highlights" here: https://www.skysports.com/football/derby-county-vs-charlton-athletic/report/469317
    Another ref might not have given the penalty.  Arm looked to be by his side and not in an un-natural position.
    Hector leaned towards the ball & thus played the ball with his arm, as opposed to the ball hitting his arm. It's clearly handball. 
  • Had a chat this a.m. with the hotel manager just before leaving .. she'd listened to the Radio Derby commentary and said that the pundits were quite complementary about us whilst emphasising that on the day County were the superior outfit .. unless they were being kind to the doomed, that concurs with my opinion (see above) we were outplayed but still stuck at it .. we all (Addick fans that is) can far too often be really over the top in our dejection after a defeat and all too euphoric after a win .. a sense of proportion is surely called for .. when I told her that we had beaten leaders Argyle at the start of the season 5-1, she said 'there you go, nothing to worry about'  :)
    (very nice young lady, originally from Battersea, Chelsea fan .. I said to her, there goes a great example of Money Can't Buy Me Love, or a decent result)
  • Cheer up guys, we've got chef wendy next
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