So you admit they play different roles, then try to compare the two.
For parts of last season Fraser was shit, and Dobson was still dragging the team through. Fraser is a luxury player and, let's be honest here, easily replaced by many decent ball playing midfielders that aren't the most mobile.
Dobson is a lot harder to replace, the bloke has one of the highest tackle/block success rates in the whole of the football league, and has that thing no statsheet will tell you, natural leadership.
Dobson is more influential to the team overall and the way we play, and therefore more important.
I think Dobson and Fraser compliment each other because they offer totally different things. The key is that third midfielder has to be much better than Morgan.
Precisely this. If we had a Josh Cullen type in there with them we’d be so much better.
If we are gonna build a midfield and we can't get Dobson and Fraser to work together, I would pick Fraser any day of the week.
He's a victim of being surrounded by players not up to his technical ability, he was far more consistent in midfield than Dobson last season and even looked like his energy levels had risen, I feel like if you stick Dobbo in most sides he's gonna do a job cause he has a good engine and can put in a tackle.
When you look at Dobson though all of his highlights are recovering a players mistake or his own (barring the Ipswich goal of course and the nutmeg). Dobson needs to show more for me this season, needs to control that midfield more and be a proper anchor, right now he's not top 6 standard, Fraser looks more likely to drive us that way.
Horseshit
What a stupid reaction. It's a well-reasoned argument. You might not agree, but there's no denying that a midfield two of Dobson and Fraser hasn't worked all that well. I think Fraser could operate in a team pushing for promotion but you won't find a top team with a player like Dobson as a key player. It might be that Holden finds a way, and I hope he does, but it's more likely we're going to have to find a third midfielder to play alongside Dobson with Fraser pushed up so that the two don't have to work together too much, but they'll have to be a hell of a player. You offer nothing to the conversation by just being an arse.
Idk, I think a midfield two of Dobson and Fraser worked better last season than a three of them plus one other did, on the whole. (This largely because that one other was usually ineffective, but also because in a two Fraser was forced to work and Dobson was forced to make play)
So you admit they play different roles, then try to compare the two.
For parts of last season Fraser was shit, and Dobson was still dragging the team through. Fraser is a luxury player and, let's be honest here, easily replaced by many decent ball playing midfielders that aren't the most mobile.
Dobson is a lot harder to replace, the bloke has one of the highest tackle/block success rates in the whole of the football league, and has that thing no statsheet will tell you, natural leadership.
Dobson is more influential to the team overall and the way we play, and therefore more important.
Dobson on his own is not effective at all. He'll win the ball back yes but without an outlet or some support he's going to do nothing useful in attacking terms. He's really good at one specific thing... and honestly, that's about it.
Fraser is the same but the other way around. If we're in possession and he has the ball, he's by far the most likely to do something useful. But if the other team have all the ball, he's basically a passenger.
Bit ultimately neither is enough ON THEIR OWN. And for whatever reason as a two they do not seem to have clicked either but that's due to the flaws in both, not either one carrying the other.
You could replace either or both with a more "generic" box to box type and probably the result would be the same. Or better yet, complement BOTH of them with a player like Gilbey was supposed to be but never managed to become.
So you admit they play different roles, then try to compare the two.
For parts of last season Fraser was shit, and Dobson was still dragging the team through. Fraser is a luxury player and, let's be honest here, easily replaced by many decent ball playing midfielders that aren't the most mobile.
Dobson is a lot harder to replace, the bloke has one of the highest tackle/block success rates in the whole of the football league, and has that thing no statsheet will tell you, natural leadership.
Dobson is more influential to the team overall and the way we play, and therefore more important.
You can compare two different player types by their contribution to the team.
So you admit they play different roles, then try to compare the two.
For parts of last season Fraser was shit, and Dobson was still dragging the team through. Fraser is a luxury player and, let's be honest here, easily replaced by many decent ball playing midfielders that aren't the most mobile.
Dobson is a lot harder to replace, the bloke has one of the highest tackle/block success rates in the whole of the football league, and has that thing no statsheet will tell you, natural leadership.
Dobson is more influential to the team overall and the way we play, and therefore more important.
My original post said, if I had to pick one to stay it would be Fraser, I then outlined exactly why I prefer Fraser and think we have more potential as a team with Fraser over Dobbo.
They play different roles yes as they both excel in one area more than the other, I don't believe both can exist on the same pitch (if our target is autos) as midfield is one of our weaker areas, in a situation where one has to go, I am picking Fraser to stay as I think he is harder to replace than Dobson.
Fraser was far from shit and I'd argue Fraser had more influence based on the fact he contributes more to our goals. As for leadership I don't think Dobson has that quality, he's a team player and a fans favourite because he's a 100%er but I don't see him organising us on the pitch and being as vocal as previous captains such as Pearce and Jackson, he just doesn't strike me as that character, which is why I said I'd like to see more from him this season.
So in a nutshell, yes I've compared two midfielders and I think one is better than the other
I would echo what somebody said already….play a decent player alongside the pair of them and they will work! The quality of player alongside them has been awful.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
I would echo what somebody said already….play a decent player alongside the pair of them and they will work! The quality of player alongside them has been awful.
This 100% last season we didn’t have a decent 3rd member to make up our midfield im hoping we aren’t making the same mistake again and thinking Henry could be the missing link
If we brought in Camara and Dack, or something similar, I think it would work in reinforcing the midfield and give us options with games and covering injuries. For example, we have no Leaburn at the start of the season so we could play Dack and Fraser in front of Camara and Dobson with May up front. That is quality for League One. But also, we have an extra player if one of Camara, Dack and Fraser is injured down the line. I'd keep McGrandles as cover for Dobbo.
The thing is, we need a side that can beat the best teams in the league but also a side that can beat the lesser teams. We ended last season with a team largely capable of that. The side that can do that can be a bit weaker than our best side. Payne can do a job off the bench or even cover effectively in the games against the lesser sides.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
I think we need a couple of marquee signings and midfield is the obvious place we need them in. We are a bit exposed attacking wise but getting a marquee signing there may be a bit expensive so a young loanee may be the best we can do. May was a great signing.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
Idk, I think a midfield two of Dobson and Fraser worked better last season than a three of them plus one other did, on the whole. (This largely because that one other was usually ineffective, but also because in a two Fraser was forced to work and Dobson was forced to make play)
They played together in a 442 and didn't pull up trees last season, certainly not enough to make you think "top 6". Sometimes they were good, sometimes times they were bad.
I'll be quite clear that I don't think either of them are the problem, I just don't think both of them are the solution either.
IMO you need to build your midfield around Fraser to get you most bang for your buck out of him. He isn't good enough to warrant buying two other midfielders to do that.
If you had a really good team you wouldn't need Dobson in it.
I would honestly have 2 more CM really high on my "need" list.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
What does that even mean?
Presume Dubai meant tick one off the list so one of Sess, Edun or Camara expected to sign tomorrow.
Idk, I think a midfield two of Dobson and Fraser worked better last season than a three of them plus one other did, on the whole. (This largely because that one other was usually ineffective, but also because in a two Fraser was forced to work and Dobson was forced to make play)
They played together in a 442 and didn't pull up trees last season, certainly not enough to make you think "top 6". Sometimes they were good, sometimes times they were bad.
I'll be quite clear that I don't think either of them are the problem, I just don't think both of them are the solution either.
IMO you need to build your midfield around Fraser to get you most bang for your buck out of him. He isn't good enough to warrant buying two other midfielders to do that.
If you had a really good team you wouldn't need Dobson in it.
I would honestly have 2 more CM really high on my "need" list.
Pretty sure that 4-4-2 run was our best run of the season. Fraser and Dobson both played very well in it. Problem was Leaburn got injured so we had to play Kirk up front or change back to 4-3-3
Fraser just needs to be more consistent. So many times last season he had 5 games where he was brilliant then went missing for the next 5
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
What does that even mean?
Presume Dubai meant tick one off the list so one of Sess, Edun or Camara expected to sign tomorrow.
Elewere, Mitchell, Asiimwe, Campbell, Aneke all pushing for the squad/fitness.
This is also still without the 3 top loan players too.
Guaranteed goals with May and Clarke-Harris, and Dack and Fraser behind. Got pace out wide and off the bench with CBT, and more goals from the bench with Leaburn.
Promotion here we come!
Would say 3 out of the 5 could be in a Charlton shirt next year.
Edun, Camara and Dack?
Sessegnon rather than Dack perhaps?
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
Think you can think one off that list tomorrow.. maybe one other tomorrow as well. But let’s see. Name has been mentioned on here, personally I am not sure he would be a good signing, but is linked with the Championship move, so let’s see
Would be very happy to see sess come back but honestly think we should be looking to play him at RWB instead of LWB. Feel he would be twice the player than the one we have seen.
Comments
For parts of last season Fraser was shit, and Dobson was still dragging the team through. Fraser is a luxury player and, let's be honest here, easily replaced by many decent ball playing midfielders that aren't the most mobile.
Dobson is a lot harder to replace, the bloke has one of the highest tackle/block success rates in the whole of the football league, and has that thing no statsheet will tell you, natural leadership.
Dobson is more influential to the team overall and the way we play, and therefore more important.
Fraser is the same but the other way around. If we're in possession and he has the ball, he's by far the most likely to do something useful. But if the other team have all the ball, he's basically a passenger.
Bit ultimately neither is enough ON THEIR OWN. And for whatever reason as a two they do not seem to have clicked either but that's due to the flaws in both, not either one carrying the other.
You could replace either or both with a more "generic" box to box type and probably the result would be the same. Or better yet, complement BOTH of them with a player like Gilbey was supposed to be but never managed to become.
They play different roles yes as they both excel in one area more than the other, I don't believe both can exist on the same pitch (if our target is autos) as midfield is one of our weaker areas, in a situation where one has to go, I am picking Fraser to stay as I think he is harder to replace than Dobson.
Fraser was far from shit and I'd argue Fraser had more influence based on the fact he contributes more to our goals. As for leadership I don't think Dobson has that quality, he's a team player and a fans favourite because he's a 100%er but I don't see him organising us on the pitch and being as vocal as previous captains such as Pearce and Jackson, he just doesn't strike me as that character, which is why I said I'd like to see more from him this season.
So in a nutshell, yes I've compared two midfielders and I think one is better than the other
The thing is, we need a side that can beat the best teams in the league but also a side that can beat the lesser teams. We ended last season with a team largely capable of that. The side that can do that can be a bit weaker than our best side. Payne can do a job off the bench or even cover effectively in the games against the lesser sides.
I'd be more than happy if we got Sess,Edun and Camara. Striker I'm not sure what to expect really bar it not being JCH because MacAnthony will be demanding a daft price
I'll be quite clear that I don't think either of them are the problem, I just don't think both of them are the solution either.
IMO you need to build your midfield around Fraser to get you most bang for your buck out of him. He isn't good enough to warrant buying two other midfielders to do that.
If you had a really good team you wouldn't need Dobson in it.
I would honestly have 2 more CM really high on my "need" list.
Fraser just needs to be more consistent. So many times last season he had 5 games where he was brilliant then went missing for the next 5