When Alfie May was the only new player fit to play from day 1 ( others did but short of required levels) and with no Leaburn to play as his partner I'm surprised that Charlton fan/critics now sound shocked by our indifferent start. How were we going to hit the ground running when we were so undercooked and made worse with the injuries to Campbell and especially Fraser who I was hoping for big things with his link up play with Alfie.
So pleased with Edun but shame that he is still getting up to speed with stamina.
The cramping issues is a major concern as it cost Cafc the match against Rovers.
When Alfie May was the only new player fit to play from day 1 ( others did but short of required levels) and with no Leaburn to play as his partner I'm surprised that Charlton fan/critics now sound shocked by our indifferent start. How were we going to hit the ground running when we were so undercooked and made worse with the injuries to Campbell and especially Fraser who I was hoping for big things with his link up play with Alfie.
So pleased with Edun but shame that he is still getting up to speed with stamina.
The cramping issues is a major concern as it cost Cafc the match against Rovers.
Did it? I thought what cost us was not putting away chances when we had them, and then a collective defensive laspse at the end
The main concern I have is the narrative around FFP that certain "ITK" community members are potentially being fed. In the absence of actual numbers and independent scrutiny, we can choose to believe it or not.
I have no doubt that the current wage bill of the first team playing squad is likely very (and comparatively) high for a L1 team. We are currently paying for the poor decisions in the past of bringing back Aneke on a long deal (insane), plus we have a significant amount a dead wood (Kirk, Jaiyesimi and arguably both McGrandles and Payne). All of them represent large expense for players you couldn't have/wouldn't want in a starting 11 for a playoff-seeking side. I would also think that the players that have come in (all of whom I've been happy to see join) are also on a decent wage. This would seem to be the predominant challenge here from an outside perspective, but that's only because we cannot see figures and conclusions are made from assumptions.
I have no idea (and choose not to delve into it on a Friday) whether such options as buying out Aneke's contract or offering players out on the cheap would allow us to have the financial capacity to bring in players that, anyone who has watched out first 3 league games, could see we needed. I still think that we need, in an ideal world, not just 1 striker to be able to play alongside May, but two. We'll need cover at RWB (which seems to be in flight) and probably another midfielder that is box-to-box/creative to play with or for Fraser/Camara. We need starter and backup in every position and we're very short on both if you discount the dead wood I mentioned earlier.
The FFP could be a real and present danger that we face if we spend too much, or it could be smoke and mirrors. All I can comment as a fan is that, whilst we can recover the results so far, we are giving the better sides a decent head start. It's not my money and I'm biased, but trying to look at things as subjectively as I can, we have enough, with adding some quality, of challenging for playoffs in the eyes of neutrals and with the struggles of Wigan and Reading, there's opportunity this season. By not grasping the opportunity this season, there's the odds that big spenders from L2 come up next season and that another large(r) team may drop from the Championship. Additionally, a number of our first-teamers could be looking at moves away in the summer if we don't challenge again this season. Plenty of risk involved by being too cautious this window.
I have no doubt that, operationally, we're doing what we can to bring in who we can, but I'm hoping that we can still sign the targets we want. This window is the one to invest and back Holden in, if any. Otherwise, we risk another stodgy, turgid mid-table season yet again, where we end up rolling out for the last two months and playing for nothing yet again. It cannot be over-emphasised how important this window is.
Dubai mentioned FFP on here, Reams has now mentioned ‘risk of embargo’ on the other forum. I hope I’m wrong but it does feel like we are starting to hear the excuses already. And we can assume that it’s a message that’s probably come from the owners if it’s those 2 both saying it. Again I really hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t look great and for me it’s not a good enough excuse when they did due diligence so knew the situation they were walking into.
I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Because it does seem silly that they would overpay for the club and then not back it properly in the first summer, so hopefully just a coincidence that both posters have mentioned it recently
Well they've both been pushing the owners/methven line all along so doubt this is a coincidence especially as it's not true as long as the investors throw a few quid in the pot
Transfer fees are not an issue as I understand, it is the wages that could push us over, so it is trying to get some off the books.
They will not risk any FFP buying throwing heaps of cash at it, there is money to spend, but it has to be right.
It will not be the Ipswich and Wigan method, which has been said right from the start. By the time of the end of the window, I believe will we have a good squad in place.
Since the start of January - Players (Wages) off the monthly bill
You can add Sess and Rak-Sak to this list also (assuming we were paying some level of wage). I'd be amazed if JFC / MacG / Stockley / Clare / Wollacott / Gilbey in particular were 'cheap'. All of them either came from higher divisions, joined from our competition, or had been voted poty and rejected contract offers elsewhere.
incomings...
Isted / Edun / Hector / Jones / Taylor / Camara (loan) / May
So we're we're 14 out and 7 in so far, from what was already an 'undercooked' and 'top 12' budget. Not denying that the likes of Kirk / Aneke / McGrandles are clogging up wages, but how lean are we really expected to be? AMB / Asiimwe / Ness / Anderson / Leaburn / Campbell - as recent graduates are all cheap by league 1 standards and will seemingly all play important squad roles this season.
The idea that we already need to shift more players on to bring others in is a little concerning, because it either means we're paying these new recruits massive league 1 salaries, or our budget isn't that big...
Dubai mentioned FFP on here, Reams has now mentioned ‘risk of embargo’ on the other forum. I hope I’m wrong but it does feel like we are starting to hear the excuses already. And we can assume that it’s a message that’s probably come from the owners if it’s those 2 both saying it. Again I really hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t look great and for me it’s not a good enough excuse when they did due diligence so knew the situation they were walking into.
I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Because it does seem silly that they would overpay for the club and then not back it properly in the first summer, so hopefully just a coincidence that both posters have mentioned it recently
Well they've both been pushing the owners/methven line all along so doubt this is a coincidence especially as it's not true as long as the investors throw a few quid in the pot
Transfer fees are not an issue as I understand, it is the wages that could push us over, so it is trying to get some off the books.
They will not risk any FFP buying throwing heaps of cash at it, there is money to spend, but it has to be right.
It will not be the Ipswich and Wigan method, which has been said right from the start. By the time of the end of the window, I believe will we have a good squad in place.
This is pure speculation from me, but say if we paid off Chuks, Kirk, DJ and Payne and then put in bids for lets say 3 other players and match their salaries.
Would we be in breach of FFP does anyone know?
I'm not saying that's what the owners should do as it's a lot of money, just a hypothetical. It's certainly something I would do if I had the money and owned the club.
Suppose it depends what clauses they have in their contracts, and if would mean we need to pay money to the clubs they come from.. And if those players accept what we offered them!
They know they need to strength, they know the positions, they have the money, and the players we are looking at, are not cheap options.
It is about getting the right players in, on the right deals for the club!
I have to be honest I ain't got a clue about how all that stuff works. It was my understanding you could make players at your clubs free agents so long as you paid the remainder of what they earned.
In that example we could pay Kirk his wage for the remainder of his contract as an example and then he's off the books and we have no ties to him. I suppose as you said, it's down to the contract.
Have any teams actually been promoted from this league in recent years without breaking ffp? Surely Ipswich, Wigan, Blackburn and Sheffield Wednesday were all over spending based on their squads?
I don't know enough about Plymouth, Blackpool, Barnsley etc to know if they went up with the books balanced.
Some of those clubs have higher revenues than us, plus you do get parachute payments when you have been relegated from the championship which would help those that had been relegated.
Ipswich and Wigan probably did spend more than 60% of turnover on wages (Ipswich because they spent so much and Wigan because their turnover will have been lower than those clubs) so their owners would have injected equity into the club to cover this.
Also worth noting that if you sell a player for a fee then that can also be used above the limit, so if any of those clubs sold a player for a few million that would have helped stay within the rules
I am about 80% sure that is not correct. if it is correct, it is new, and I may have missed it. But I would be surprised as the settled view of the EFL leadership is that parachute payments from the FAPL should be abolished as part of wider changes to revenue sharing within the pyramid.
It has always been the case so not anything new, it might be that the Premier league pays for these ones as well? I am not sure
I’m not sure the EFL leadership is fully against parachute payments, just thinks that they are way too high at the moment for clubs relegated from the Premier league and more of that money should be distributed to the rest of clubs in the EFL
It was never gonna last long come on... IF we had got off to a flyer we would be more forgiving of course but this is Charlton, dubious quality, injury prone players mixed with our usual luck with injuries is a fatal combination.
Even I, for a couple of weeks after a tortuous takeover was confident. I am deflated already and expecting another same old same old season...
A mantra chanted on CL many a year, "it's the hope that kills you", applies yet again.
Regardless of your views on, well pretty much everything, 23 days (and counting) since our last signing is somewhat alarming especially when we have dropped points in the last 2 games when seemingly points were there for the taking.
Dubai mentioned FFP on here, Reams has now mentioned ‘risk of embargo’ on the other forum. I hope I’m wrong but it does feel like we are starting to hear the excuses already. And we can assume that it’s a message that’s probably come from the owners if it’s those 2 both saying it. Again I really hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t look great and for me it’s not a good enough excuse when they did due diligence so knew the situation they were walking into.
I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Because it does seem silly that they would overpay for the club and then not back it properly in the first summer, so hopefully just a coincidence that both posters have mentioned it recently
Well they've both been pushing the owners/methven line all along so doubt this is a coincidence especially as it's not true as long as the investors throw a few quid in the pot
Transfer fees are not an issue as I understand, it is the wages that could push us over, so it is trying to get some off the books.
They will not risk any FFP buying throwing heaps of cash at it, there is money to spend, but it has to be right.
It will not be the Ipswich and Wigan method, which has been said right from the start. By the time of the end of the window, I believe will we have a good squad in place.
This is pure speculation from me, but say if we paid off Chuks, Kirk, DJ and Payne and then put in bids for lets say 3 other players and match their salaries.
Would we be in breach of FFP does anyone know?
I'm not saying that's what the owners should do as it's a lot of money, just a hypothetical. It's certainly something I would do if I had the money and owned the club.
Suppose it depends what clauses they have in their contracts, and if would mean we need to pay money to the clubs they come from.. And if those players accept what we offered them!
They know they need to strength, they know the positions, they have the money, and the players we are looking at, are not cheap options.
It is about getting the right players in, on the right deals for the club!
I have to be honest I ain't got a clue about how all that stuff works. It was my understanding you could make players at your clubs free agents so long as you paid the remainder of what they earned.
In that example we could pay Kirk his wage for the remainder of his contract as an example and then he's off the books and we have no ties to him. I suppose as you said, it's down to the contract.
Have any teams actually been promoted from this league in recent years without breaking ffp? Surely Ipswich, Wigan, Blackburn and Sheffield Wednesday were all over spending based on their squads?
I don't know enough about Plymouth, Blackpool, Barnsley etc to know if they went up with the books balanced.
Some of those clubs have higher revenues than us, plus you do get parachute payments when you have been relegated from the championship which would help those that had been relegated.
Ipswich and Wigan probably did spend more than 60% of turnover on wages (Ipswich because they spent so much and Wigan because their turnover will have been lower than those clubs) so their owners would have injected equity into the club to cover this.
Also worth noting that if you sell a player for a fee then that can also be used above the limit, so if any of those clubs sold a player for a few million that would have helped stay within the rules
I am about 80% sure that is not correct. if it is correct, it is new, and I may have missed it. But I would be surprised as the settled view of the EFL leadership is that parachute payments from the FAPL should be abolished as part of wider changes to revenue sharing within the pyramid.
Do Other English Leagues Provide Parachute Payments?
Yes, the Championship, League One and League Two all provide some form of parachute payments to the sides that are relegated. The Championship will provide teams that are relegated from England’s second league with 11.1% of the Basic Award payment that is given to Championship club for a single season.
League One provides clubs that are relegated from England’s third league with 12.6% of the Basic Award to League One sides for a single season. League Two provides 100% of the Basic Award for the first year following relegation and 50% in the second year.
I've seen the above quoted on a number of websites @PragueAddick not sure how reliable it is though
It must be correct then. However it is not going to pay for much. It’s only one season whereas FAPL covers three seasons (unless club gets back to FAPL before then). Maybe thats why it isnt much discussed. Sunderland under Methven still had FAPL parachute money! That was a big financial advantage, and they used it sooooo well🤣
Didn't we cut loads of costs in January with the excuse it'll help us in the summer? Laughable to hear the same old excuses in the summer being trotted out like clockwork.
Dubai mentioned FFP on here, Reams has now mentioned ‘risk of embargo’ on the other forum. I hope I’m wrong but it does feel like we are starting to hear the excuses already. And we can assume that it’s a message that’s probably come from the owners if it’s those 2 both saying it. Again I really hope I’m wrong but it doesn’t look great and for me it’s not a good enough excuse when they did due diligence so knew the situation they were walking into.
I might be putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. Because it does seem silly that they would overpay for the club and then not back it properly in the first summer, so hopefully just a coincidence that both posters have mentioned it recently
Well they've both been pushing the owners/methven line all along so doubt this is a coincidence especially as it's not true as long as the investors throw a few quid in the pot
Transfer fees are not an issue as I understand, it is the wages that could push us over, so it is trying to get some off the books.
They will not risk any FFP buying throwing heaps of cash at it, there is money to spend, but it has to be right.
It will not be the Ipswich and Wigan method, which has been said right from the start. By the time of the end of the window, I believe will we have a good squad in place.
This is pure speculation from me, but say if we paid off Chuks, Kirk, DJ and Payne and then put in bids for lets say 3 other players and match their salaries.
Would we be in breach of FFP does anyone know?
I'm not saying that's what the owners should do as it's a lot of money, just a hypothetical. It's certainly something I would do if I had the money and owned the club.
Suppose it depends what clauses they have in their contracts, and if would mean we need to pay money to the clubs they come from.. And if those players accept what we offered them!
They know they need to strength, they know the positions, they have the money, and the players we are looking at, are not cheap options.
It is about getting the right players in, on the right deals for the club!
I have to be honest I ain't got a clue about how all that stuff works. It was my understanding you could make players at your clubs free agents so long as you paid the remainder of what they earned.
In that example we could pay Kirk his wage for the remainder of his contract as an example and then he's off the books and we have no ties to him. I suppose as you said, it's down to the contract.
Have any teams actually been promoted from this league in recent years without breaking ffp? Surely Ipswich, Wigan, Blackburn and Sheffield Wednesday were all over spending based on their squads?
I don't know enough about Plymouth, Blackpool, Barnsley etc to know if they went up with the books balanced.
Some of those clubs have higher revenues than us, plus you do get parachute payments when you have been relegated from the championship which would help those that had been relegated.
Ipswich and Wigan probably did spend more than 60% of turnover on wages (Ipswich because they spent so much and Wigan because their turnover will have been lower than those clubs) so their owners would have injected equity into the club to cover this.
Also worth noting that if you sell a player for a fee then that can also be used above the limit, so if any of those clubs sold a player for a few million that would have helped stay within the rules
I am about 80% sure that is not correct. if it is correct, it is new, and I may have missed it. But I would be surprised as the settled view of the EFL leadership is that parachute payments from the FAPL should be abolished as part of wider changes to revenue sharing within the pyramid.
It has always been the case so not anything new, it might be that the Premier league pays for these ones as well? I am not sure
I’m not sure the EFL leadership is fully against parachute payments, just thinks that they are way too high at the moment for clubs relegated from the Premier league and more of that money should be distributed to the rest of clubs in the EFL
I stand corrected that they exist, as I’ve mentioned above before I saw your post. Re where the EFL stand on them, I’m basing that on what Kieran Maguire has said. He was a key contributor to the Fan Led Review and argued strongly there for their abolition. He has many times made the argument on his podcast. I think he said it was an uphill struggle to get the EFL to adopt his line, but they got there and I believe the current negotiations with the FAPL assume they are to be replaced with a fixed %, which the EFL would then pay its clubs according to their final league position as the FAPL do.
I don't expect us to spend another penny on a transfer fee and it'll be loans the last couple of days of the window. Not ITK we've just seen this a thousand times before. We don't owe these new owners anything, they need to get us on side. We all heard that there would be more action than words but the silence is deafening.
I miss being linked with players and bringing them in. All we have done so far is replace outgoing players which has all that's been done by previous owners.
Early signs showed we could look forward to more than that, I understand people's frustration, especially when the points have been dropped because of the lack of the players we need.
A little under 2 weeks to go and I really don't want to see no super duper phone bollocks again. It will be extremely underwhelming
Thought someone in the know claimed we were meant to be signing a striker before Saturday, have we and I missed it? I think the deadline for him to play on Saturday has now passed.
Thought someone in the know claimed we were meant to be signing a striker before Saturday, have we and I missed it? I think the deadline for him to play on Saturday has now passed.
Been delayed cos they can't work out what meme goes with Cosgrove
Comments
How were we going to hit the ground running when we were so undercooked and made worse with the injuries to Campbell and especially Fraser who I was hoping for big things with his link up play with Alfie.
So pleased with Edun but shame that he is still getting up to speed with stamina.
The cramping issues is a major concern as it cost Cafc the match against Rovers.
I have no doubt that the current wage bill of the first team playing squad is likely very (and comparatively) high for a L1 team. We are currently paying for the poor decisions in the past of bringing back Aneke on a long deal (insane), plus we have a significant amount a dead wood (Kirk, Jaiyesimi and arguably both McGrandles and Payne). All of them represent large expense for players you couldn't have/wouldn't want in a starting 11 for a playoff-seeking side. I would also think that the players that have come in (all of whom I've been happy to see join) are also on a decent wage. This would seem to be the predominant challenge here from an outside perspective, but that's only because we cannot see figures and conclusions are made from assumptions.
I have no idea (and choose not to delve into it on a Friday) whether such options as buying out Aneke's contract or offering players out on the cheap would allow us to have the financial capacity to bring in players that, anyone who has watched out first 3 league games, could see we needed. I still think that we need, in an ideal world, not just 1 striker to be able to play alongside May, but two. We'll need cover at RWB (which seems to be in flight) and probably another midfielder that is box-to-box/creative to play with or for Fraser/Camara. We need starter and backup in every position and we're very short on both if you discount the dead wood I mentioned earlier.
The FFP could be a real and present danger that we face if we spend too much, or it could be smoke and mirrors. All I can comment as a fan is that, whilst we can recover the results so far, we are giving the better sides a decent head start. It's not my money and I'm biased, but trying to look at things as subjectively as I can, we have enough, with adding some quality, of challenging for playoffs in the eyes of neutrals and with the struggles of Wigan and Reading, there's opportunity this season. By not grasping the opportunity this season, there's the odds that big spenders from L2 come up next season and that another large(r) team may drop from the Championship. Additionally, a number of our first-teamers could be looking at moves away in the summer if we don't challenge again this season. Plenty of risk involved by being too cautious this window.
I have no doubt that, operationally, we're doing what we can to bring in who we can, but I'm hoping that we can still sign the targets we want. This window is the one to invest and back Holden in, if any. Otherwise, we risk another stodgy, turgid mid-table season yet again, where we end up rolling out for the last two months and playing for nothing yet again. It cannot be over-emphasised how important this window is.
I'd be amazed if JFC / MacG / Stockley / Clare / Wollacott / Gilbey in particular were 'cheap'. All of them either came from higher divisions, joined from our competition, or had been voted poty and rejected contract offers elsewhere.
incomings...
Isted / Edun / Hector / Jones / Taylor / Camara (loan) / May
So we're we're 14 out and 7 in so far, from what was already an 'undercooked' and 'top 12' budget.
Not denying that the likes of Kirk / Aneke / McGrandles are clogging up wages, but how lean are we really expected to be?
AMB / Asiimwe / Ness / Anderson / Leaburn / Campbell - as recent graduates are all cheap by league 1 standards and will seemingly all play important squad roles this season.
The idea that we already need to shift more players on to bring others in is a little concerning, because it either means we're paying these new recruits massive league 1 salaries, or our budget isn't that big...
I’m not sure the EFL leadership is fully against parachute payments, just thinks that they are way too high at the moment for clubs relegated from the Premier league and more of that money should be distributed to the rest of clubs in the EFL
Even I, for a couple of weeks after a tortuous takeover was confident. I am deflated already and expecting another same old same old season...
A mantra chanted on CL many a year, "it's the hope that kills you", applies yet again.
Just what we need.
Early signs showed we could look forward to more than that, I understand people's frustration, especially when the points have been dropped because of the lack of the players we need.
A little under 2 weeks to go and I really don't want to see no super duper phone bollocks again. It will be extremely underwhelming