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Dinosaurs and the bible
Comments
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Irony of the thread title just hit me, everyone that follows the bible is a dinosaur!3
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I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
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Isn't your second sentence (particularly the last bit) contradicted by your first sentence (particularly the first bit)?cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time3 -
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Great timing! So was it put their by atheist conspirators or have they mis-dated it and it’s actually 6000 years old?bobmunro said:0 -
Also, just out of curiosity, how did this aquatic creature die out in a flood?1
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My position with religion is simple. I am a non believer and have been as long as I can remember. Even as a young boy. I haven't got anything against people who are religious apart from those in power as it can be an influence in decisions that it shouldn't be.3
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Are the moral values of people only shaped by the constraints of the law of the land?
Does some kind of belief system, often transmitted by parents, come into play?
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Cables, you are right that there are many good religious people. I have no doubts that your dad is one of them. However, people aren't decent because they are religious, people are decent irrespective of their religion and in many cases despite their religion. In fact, to argue that it is their religion that makes them virtuous, actually discounts their own innate goodness and humanity. We do people a disservice by accreting their good actions and good nature to their religions.
Yes, to a large extent it is (for me at least) about power and control. There would be no religion if it wasn't about power and control. That controlling element is still there today. Not just in the Westboro Baptist Church, the Amirs of Afghanistan or the twenty six 'Lords Spiritual', but at a more base level. I have a friend who was told by her own mother that she (the mother) would "kill her" (the daughter) "if god told her to". Now this is an extreme case and I have no doubt that her controlling parent would still be a nasty person if she didn't believe, but it is only with the introduction of religion that this psychotic threat can exist. And it's not just threats of violence. Religion is a cause of violence. Almost six thousand Christians a year are killed because of their religion. They have the misfortune of living in places where their particular religion is not tolerated. They aren't killed by beastly atheists who only want to encourage them to think for themselves, they are killed by supporters of other religions who want everyone to follow their particular cult. Religion is only a unifying force when everyone believes (or is made to believe) the same thing. Competing religions are a force for division.
You say that religion is an easy target, but it really isn't. It's the only area of life where people have an intellectual get out of jail free card. In no other sphere can you get by on saying 'I have faith' or 'I believe' and that is enough for people to somehow accept the irrational as rational. Imagine If I suddenly declared that I believed that 1+1=3. Do you think that I'd be allowed to hold on to that belief? Absolutely no-one would accept it. From a very early age my parents and my teachers would worry about me and try to impress the truth of the number two upon me. When I got older, unless I had a very rare Job that needed zero numeracy skills, I'd get the sack in no time. Meanwhile, everyone in the community would mock me for my foolishness. Yet, with religion there is a widespread belief that you mustn't challenge people's religious beliefs no matter how fantastical. Mustn't hurt their feelings. For me that is completely and utterly wrong. Everybody has the right to believe what they want, but everyone else as the right, if not the duty, to challenge the non-sensical.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.1
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This thread was about a particular article talking bolox about dinosaurs in relation to the bible. If you can find me any similar in relation to the Quran, I’ll happily have a dig.soapy_jones said:Fascinated by the Bible, which I have concluded is a great history book where the key content can be got to by a robust disreguarding of all the religious stuff.
Quite why mouthpieces get their knickers in a twist over it's mere existance or the fact certain sections of society read more into it than sanity allows, is beyond me.
Move on and have a pop at the Qoran, oh what's that? Don't fancy it?
Love dinosaurs though.0 -
The story of a man instructed by god to build a boat, to contain two of every species, in order to save them from a flood, is in that book tooAddicksAddict said:
This thread was about a particular article talking bolox about dinosaurs in relation to the bible. If you can find me any similar in relation to the Quran, I’ll happily have a dig.soapy_jones said:Fascinated by the Bible, which I have concluded is a great history book where the key content can be got to by a robust disreguarding of all the religious stuff.
Quite why mouthpieces get their knickers in a twist over it's mere existance or the fact certain sections of society read more into it than sanity allows, is beyond me.
Move on and have a pop at the Qoran, oh what's that? Don't fancy it?
Love dinosaurs though.0 -
Crocodiles, as far as I remember, predate dinosaurs. Possibly sharks do as well.Lincsaddick said:
there are still dinosaur related species about today, certainly birds and possibly crocodiles .. there are quite a few large Asian, African, South American reptiles usually living in remote areas that are possibly descended from dinosaurs .. the very word 'dinosaur' comes from two Greek words, deinos (terrible) and sauros = lizardCharltonMadrid said:Dinosaurs, or at least creatures which resemble them, seem to be mentioned in Hindu scriptures.0 -
Us Pisceans don’t believe in astrology.MrOneLung said:
Why would I do that ? I don’t believe in any religious mumbo jumbo whether in bible or any other religious book.Covered End said:
If you want to pick up a free copy of the Koran/Quaran/Qoran they are handing out free copies in Leicester Square.MrOneLung said:
Well to be fair, I would suggest 95% of us do not know any of the stories in the Koran/Quaran/Qoran.soapy_jones said:Fascinated by the Bible, which I have concluded is a great history book where the key content can be got to by a robust disreguarding of all the religious stuff.
Quite why mouthpieces get their knickers in a twist over it's mere existance or the fact certain sections of society read more into it than sanity allows, is beyond me.
Move on and have a pop at the Qoran, oh what's that? Don't fancy it?
Love dinosaurs though.Maybe it references dinosaurs, I just don’t knowThat’s probably just the Sagittarius in me though6 -
New favourite insult.Stig said:Most countries have universities with departments specialising in natural history, most have museums specialising in natural history and most have conservation organisations dedicated to preserving the various lifeforms on their patch. In addition to all this professional scientific activity, there are millions of people around the planet who take a keen interest in the creatures we share it with. And yet with all this going on, we still cannot say with certainty how many species there are. Best estimates suggest that there are probably around 1.7 million. But every year, new species are discovered for the very fist time.
If you wanted to collect that many species, you'd need to gather roughly 58 unique species every day for 80 years*. Just finding that many would be mind bogglingly difficult, now imagine catching them and keeping them and providing food for them and keeping them in the required habitats without allowing any of them the predate upon the others. Never letting a single one die. The whole notion is complete and utter nonsense.
*You might think that I'd chosen 80 years as an approximation of modern life expectancy, but no, its actually what the bible says Noah's age was when the flood occurred (600), minus his age when he started building the ark (520). If those figures alone don't set alarm bells ringing as to the feasibility of this story, then you may be one dendrite short of a neurone.1 -
So show me the article where someone argues the dinosaurs were on the ark from the Quran.Chizz said:
The story of a man instructed by god to build a boat, to contain two of every species, in order to save them from a flood, is in that book tooAddicksAddict said:
This thread was about a particular article talking bolox about dinosaurs in relation to the bible. If you can find me any similar in relation to the Quran, I’ll happily have a dig.soapy_jones said:Fascinated by the Bible, which I have concluded is a great history book where the key content can be got to by a robust disreguarding of all the religious stuff.
Quite why mouthpieces get their knickers in a twist over it's mere existance or the fact certain sections of society read more into it than sanity allows, is beyond me.
Move on and have a pop at the Qoran, oh what's that? Don't fancy it?
Love dinosaurs though.0 -
I would hazard a guess that a very high percentage of Food Banks in this country are run, funded and stocked by congregations taken from local churches, temples and mosques.
We can bore the arse off each other with our trite assumptions about religion and religious practice, it's historical misdemenours and influences, but people of faith today are often derided and mocked and it is such a shame. In it's CofE and Roman incarnations, in this country it is dying on its feet. Come on, everyone has faith, just look at the score predictions for Saturday!2 -
Good post, and for me I wish that was the case but in my experience growing up in a strict religious family and still having a lot of exposure to people in those circles it's just not the case. They are the most close minded and hateful people I've ever experienced. As for live and let live that's something that needs to go the other way more. They should practice that when it comes to issues like gay marriage, or trans issues. This is what baffle sme most about them. No one is saying they can't live life their way but that others can live life differently. They can't accept that and see these issues as a threat to their religion and so try and impose on others and try to say they can't live the way they want.cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
I am firmly of the view that there is no place for religion in a modern compassionate society.9 - Sponsored links:
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People are different.For some, religion and spirituality gives meaning to their lives and helps their psychological well being.Others dislike supernatural explanations. People like Richard Dawkins would say we have a survival/social instinct, and that's enough to have a meaningful life and a peaceful society.Others don't worry or think about it, and just live.But billions of people are religious/spiritual and virtually all cultures have a religion, so it is unlikely we will all be atheists in the future.0
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I agree to a point. Not all religious people are closed minded in that way. Some are of course and indeed some non religious people have terrible attitudes towards gay and trans people/issues. I suppose what we really need is everybody to adopt a live and let live attitude to life, whatever their views or who they worship.cantersaddick said:
Good post, and for me I wish that was the case but in my experience growing up in a strict religious family and still having a lot of exposure to people in those circles it's just not the case. They are the most close minded and hateful people I've ever experienced. As for live and let live that's something that needs to go the other way more. They should practice that when it comes to issues like gay marriage, or trans issues. This is what baffle sme most about them. No one is saying they can't live life their way but that others can live life differently. They can't accept that and see these issues as a threat to their religion and so try and impose on others and try to say they can't live the way they want.cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
I am firmly of the view that there is no place for religion in a modern compassionate society.
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Whilst on the subject of dinosaurs, Maidstone has a strong affection for the creatures after the fossilised remains, of what was then believed to be an Iguanodon, were found in a quarry in 1822. Maidstone's coat of arms bears an iguanodon. There is a sculpture on the A20 in the town, who is much loved and affectionately named Iggy. There is also a model of one outside Maidstone East Station.
Iggy is currently covered in black and yellow balloons and a replica of the FA Cup. Local people dress him in attire suitable to whatever may be happening at the time. The FA cup tie with Coventry on Monday is the topic of the moment in the town. Good luck to Maidstone United, they have done the town proud.
Science should convince everyone that we are a product of evolution, however if someone gets comfort from their faith and does not force it onto others, then I don't have a problem.
https://museum.maidstone.gov.uk/explore/collections/geology/maidstone-and-the-iguanodon/
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I'm losing my faith in Charlton Athletic. Can they help with that?Henry Irving said:2 -
@cantersaddick @Stig
fair points and I am only basing my opinions on personal experience. I am not religious or can claim to be following the faith I was christened into, and of course, basing what we know now on facts about how life in the Universe came into being, it’s almost impossible there is or was a God of any kind.When I say religion is an easy target, I simply meant that for every person of the type that say Canters’ mentioned, there are a number of unassuming individuals who also believe in a God that are just decent folk.No one can hold a moral high ground or judge someone because they believe in a God, and for me, this is religion’s biggest problem. But, for some people it just represents a way of living a decent life, and hopefully, they take the good from it and just that. I have had experience of meeting/knowing a lot of people like that, but of course you have those that Canters’ mentioned who don’t
On the whole, my point was more live and let live than anything else. A personal example for me is that the Royal family mean zero to me, and in my head it’s as non sensical to follow them as it may be to those of you that say that about religion. There’s no royal blood, they sit in those palaces on the basis of some made up history that at one point they were in a sense Gods among peasants. But, some people do believe in the Royal family and everything is stands for. For some, the fact I didn’t watch the Queen’s funeral may have been quite surprising and I could’ve been judged for it.It’s not exactly the same thing, but for me, just pointing out that for every person who may have judged me for not watching her funeral or being a Royalist, I know there are hundreds of others who do follow the royal family who wouldn’t have judged me for it4 -
MuttleyCAFC said:
I agree to a point. Not all religious people are closed minded in that way. Some are of course and indeed some non religious people have terrible attitudes towards gay and trans people/issues. I suppose what we really need is everybody to adopt a live and let live attitude to life, whatever their views or who they worship.cantersaddick said:
Good post, and for me I wish that was the case but in my experience growing up in a strict religious family and still having a lot of exposure to people in those circles it's just not the case. They are the most close minded and hateful people I've ever experienced. As for live and let live that's something that needs to go the other way more. They should practice that when it comes to issues like gay marriage, or trans issues. This is what baffle sme most about them. No one is saying they can't live life their way but that others can live life differently. They can't accept that and see these issues as a threat to their religion and so try and impose on others and try to say they can't live the way they want.cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
I am firmly of the view that there is no place for religion in a modern compassionate society.
I have two very good friends who are an elderly gay couple, they are also two of the most "churchy" people I know. Their local church (Anglican) is very tolerant of their lifestyle, but not everyone in the church (generally, not that particular parish) is. A few years back they had a bit of a to do in their previous dioscese when a local church (again, not theirs) asked Franklin Graham (son of Billy and anti-gay) to speak at a Christian knees up in the town.
I think Bill & Ted had the best philiosophy. "Be excellent to each other".0 -
Is that the gay couples names? Like in the film?Algarveaddick said:MuttleyCAFC said:
I agree to a point. Not all religious people are closed minded in that way. Some are of course and indeed some non religious people have terrible attitudes towards gay and trans people/issues. I suppose what we really need is everybody to adopt a live and let live attitude to life, whatever their views or who they worship.cantersaddick said:
Good post, and for me I wish that was the case but in my experience growing up in a strict religious family and still having a lot of exposure to people in those circles it's just not the case. They are the most close minded and hateful people I've ever experienced. As for live and let live that's something that needs to go the other way more. They should practice that when it comes to issues like gay marriage, or trans issues. This is what baffle sme most about them. No one is saying they can't live life their way but that others can live life differently. They can't accept that and see these issues as a threat to their religion and so try and impose on others and try to say they can't live the way they want.cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
I am firmly of the view that there is no place for religion in a modern compassionate society.
I have two very good friends who are an elderly gay couple, they are also two of the most "churchy" people I know. Their local church (Anglican) is very tolerant of their lifestyle, but not everyone in the church (generally, not that particular parish) is. A few years back they had a bit of a to do in their previous dioscese when a local church (again, not theirs) asked Franklin Graham (son of Billy and anti-gay) to speak at a Christian knees up in the town.
I think Bill & Ted had the best philosophy. "Be excellent to each other".
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Yeah, but that was just copied from a much older book which had more gods.Chizz said:
The story of a man instructed by god to build a boat, to contain two of every species, in order to save them from a flood, is in that book tooAddicksAddict said:
This thread was about a particular article talking bolox about dinosaurs in relation to the bible. If you can find me any similar in relation to the Quran, I’ll happily have a dig.soapy_jones said:Fascinated by the Bible, which I have concluded is a great history book where the key content can be got to by a robust disreguarding of all the religious stuff.
Quite why mouthpieces get their knickers in a twist over it's mere existance or the fact certain sections of society read more into it than sanity allows, is beyond me.
Move on and have a pop at the Qoran, oh what's that? Don't fancy it?
Love dinosaurs though.2 -
Are the balloons biodegradable?ME14addick said:Whilst on the subject of dinosaurs, Maidstone has a strong affection for the creatures after the fossilised remains, of what was then believed to be an Iguanodon, were found in a quarry in 1822. Maidstone's coat of arms bears an iguanodon. There is a sculpture on the A20 in the town, who is much loved and affectionately named Iggy. There is also a model of one outside Maidstone East Station.
Iggy is currently covered in black and yellow balloons and a replica of the FA Cup. Local people dress him in attire suitable to whatever may be happening at the time. The FA cup tie with Coventry on Monday is the topic of the moment in the town. Good luck to Maidstone United, they have done the town proud.
Science should convince everyone that we are a product of evolution, however if someone gets comfort from their faith and does not force it onto others, then I don't have a problem.
https://museum.maidstone.gov.uk/explore/collections/geology/maidstone-and-the-iguanodon/2 -
To be honest, the Christian religion has all flavours. Ultra conservative Christians believe everything in the Bible has been written by ‘God’ so their belief system doesn’t allow them to vary from that. And they are the easy fodder for the vindictive, violent, selective ‘God’ that is taught in their ultra conservative churches. It’s basically the fire and brimstone approach. All will go to hell unless you follow their teachings. But, there are many Christians who believe that the overriding nature of ‘God’ is one of love & compassion who transcends all religions. They believe in the Bible but see it as having been written by ‘Man’ with all their biases and not written by ‘God’. They are far more open minded people who live their life with that in mind without living their life now to try to get into ‘Heaven’. It’s an interesting dichotomy of people who are brain washed and people who aren’t. I’m sure it’s like that in all religions. But, it certainly has been the main reason for the hate that’s been around for millenniums. Unfortunately it’s human nature.Note: I’ve put ‘God’ in quotes because ‘God’ means different things to different people. It’s when people insist on putting ‘God’ in a box that the problems start.2
