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Dinosaurs and the bible
Comments
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seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.1
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Stig said:Chizz said:PopIcon said:Redvaliant said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.
Wars aren't fought by faiths, they are the indulgence of men. Faith isn't the issue, greed and power are.
WWII
Civil Wars - China's, Russian
WWI
Sino-Japanese Wars
Spanish Conquests of the Americas
More recently the war in the Ukraine.
The fighting in Israel is a land conflict.Crusades (11th-13th centuries): A series of religious wars initiated by Western European Christians to regain control of the Holy Land from Muslims.Thirty Years' War (1618-1648): Initially a conflict between Protestant and Catholic states in the Holy Roman Empire, it later evolved into a broader European war involving political and territorial disputes.French Wars of Religion (1562-1598): A series of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants in France, marked by massacres, assassinations, and sieges.Islamic conquests (7th-8th centuries): Military campaigns led by Islamic caliphs to spread Islam and conquer territories across the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe.Reconquista (8th-15th centuries): A long period of military campaigns by Christian kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula to reconquer territory from Muslim rule.Jewish-Roman Wars (1st and 2nd centuries): Revolts by Jewish communities against Roman rule, motivated partly by religious beliefs and resistance to Roman religious and cultural practices.Wars of the Reformation (16th century): Conflicts across Europe sparked by the Protestant Reformation, pitting Catholic and Protestant states against each other.Irish Confederate Wars (1641-1653): Conflicts in Ireland between Catholic Confederates and Protestant English and Scottish settlers, fueled by religious, political, and ethnic tensions.Bosnian War (1992-1995): Although primarily driven by ethnic and political factors, religious identity played a significant role in the conflict between Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, and Croats.Northern Crusades (12th-16th centuries): Military campaigns by Christian kingdoms and orders to conquer and convert pagan Baltic tribes in the Baltic region.10 -
Blackheathen said:seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.7
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The majority of religious people I know have a faith for social or mental health reasons, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
There will always be beliefs that can be used for good or harm.
For example, I find nationalism similar to religion in its blind faith in the concept of the nation. Nationalism is useful in uniting people but it has led to murder, discrimination and war.
Another example. We all agree on the sanctity of life to prevent murder and suicide, but then you get the anti-abortion nutters making death threats to doctors in abortion clinics.
There are extreme cases where useful beliefs such as freedom of speech, private property, human rights, etc. lead to nonsensical conclusions or are used as a pretext for bad actions.
It is a bit like that with religion: it gives life its meaning to many but can also be used by crazy people to inflict misery on others.0 -
PopIcon said:ShootersHillGuru said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.1
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Brain washed Catholic here. Jacked it in aged 17 and it felt like a massive weight was lifted off me. Seemed odd to me that my mum who went to a Catholic school was taught that the Bible was all true (she still believes this) while I went to a Catholic school and was taught that the Bible was just stories.
Attended a faith awareness course at work a few years back with 7 or 8 religions represented (included a Druid). Hearing the subtle and yet the same differences in the various religions brought home to me the ridiculousness of all of them, and someone could have stood up with the others expounding a belief in Santa or a flat earth and it would have been just as ludicrous.
The last laugh of course will be those expecting the after life and finding there’s no such thing!4 -
Chizz said:PopIcon said:Redvaliant said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.
Wars aren't fought by faiths, they are the indulgence of men. Faith isn't the issue, greed and power are.
WWII
Civil Wars - China's, Russian
WWI
Sino-Japanese Wars
Spanish Conquests of the Americas
More recently the war in the Ukraine.
The fighting in Israel is a land conflict.Crusades (11th-13th centuries): A series of religious wars initiated by Western European Christians to regain control of the Holy Land from Muslims.Thirty Years' War (1618-1648): Initially a conflict between Protestant and Catholic states in the Holy Roman Empire, it later evolved into a broader European war involving political and territorial disputes.French Wars of Religion (1562-1598): A series of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants in France, marked by massacres, assassinations, and sieges.Islamic conquests (7th-8th centuries): Military campaigns led by Islamic caliphs to spread Islam and conquer territories across the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe.Reconquista (8th-15th centuries): A long period of military campaigns by Christian kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula to reconquer territory from Muslim rule.Jewish-Roman Wars (1st and 2nd centuries): Revolts by Jewish communities against Roman rule, motivated partly by religious beliefs and resistance to Roman religious and cultural practices.Wars of the Reformation (16th century): Conflicts across Europe sparked by the Protestant Reformation, pitting Catholic and Protestant states against each other.Irish Confederate Wars (1641-1653): Conflicts in Ireland between Catholic Confederates and Protestant English and Scottish settlers, fueled by religious, political, and ethnic tensions.Bosnian War (1992-1995): Although primarily driven by ethnic and political factors, religious identity played a significant role in the conflict between Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, and Croats.Northern Crusades (12th-16th centuries): Military campaigns by Christian kingdoms and orders to conquer and convert pagan Baltic tribes in the Baltic region.0 -
EveshamAddick said:Brain washed Catholic here. Jacked it in aged 17 and it felt like a massive weight was lifted off me. Seemed odd to me that my mum who went to a Catholic school was taught that the Bible was all true (she still believes this) while I went to a Catholic school and was taught that the Bible was just stories.
Attended a faith awareness course at work a few years back with 7 or 8 religions represented (included a Druid). Hearing the subtle and yet the same differences in the various religions brought home to me the ridiculousness of all of them, and someone could have stood up with the others expounding a belief in Santa or a flat earth and it would have been just as ludicrous.
The last laugh of course will be those expecting the after life and finding there’s no such thing!2 -
AddicksAddict said:EveshamAddick said:Brain washed Catholic here. Jacked it in aged 17 and it felt like a massive weight was lifted off me. Seemed odd to me that my mum who went to a Catholic school was taught that the Bible was all true (she still believes this) while I went to a Catholic school and was taught that the Bible was just stories.
Attended a faith awareness course at work a few years back with 7 or 8 religions represented (included a Druid). Hearing the subtle and yet the same differences in the various religions brought home to me the ridiculousness of all of them, and someone could have stood up with the others expounding a belief in Santa or a flat earth and it would have been just as ludicrous.
The last laugh of course will be those expecting the after life and finding there’s no such thing!
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Blackheathen said:seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.0
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seth plum said:Blackheathen said:seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.There has never been one iota of actual tests proving the existence of god. It would even be nice to narrow it down to what one of the 3,000 gods humans have believed in over time.5
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PopIcon said:ShootersHillGuru said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.3
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ValleyGary said:seth plum said:Blackheathen said:seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.
I would agree that science can certainly detect chemical change in a body, serotonin or hormones or whatever.
It is people who choose to say those changes are about something called ‘love’.
My case is that love is a complex concept, mused over but poets, musicians, artists, scientists and people generally for centuries. To connect a chemical change to the concept of ‘love’ in all its shapes and sizes is surely an act of faith and belief.
I think that kind of thing, faith and belief, is what people who believe in God do.
Personally I think there are more grounds for criticising organised religions and their practices and behaviours than there are grounds for criticising an individual person for having faith in something…especially if that something is aspirationally ‘good’.
For some people their moral compass is dictated by parents, or by the law, or by mutual self interest, or by belief in something that goes beyond selfish desire.For many that moral debate is internal, for others they look outside themselves in order to determine what doing the ‘right thing’ is. Hence the power of religion.3 -
MuttleyCAFC said:Other people's beliefs should be respected unless they hurt others. I don't like beliefs or even non beliefs imposed on or being used to oppress people. Jones' religion shouldn't matter to us one iota. And I'm sure it doesn't as what we are interested in is his managerial abilities.3
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No, ‘Love’ is just a human created word for a collection of chemical change in your body. You’re not gonna tell someone you are madly deeply in constant release of endorphins, it doesn’t have to same ring to it. You might believe you’re in love when you’re not, just like some people believe they’re ill when they’re not. That’s just a misconception or lying to yourself. Just like believing there is a god, that’s the only similarity I can see.
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seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.2
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seth plum said:ValleyGary said:seth plum said:Blackheathen said:seth plum said:A lot of people believe in the existence or reality of love, but it only manifests in the observances of 'love'. Proof of the factual existence of love would be very hard, and disputed.
I would agree that science can certainly detect chemical change in a body, serotonin or hormones or whatever.
It is people who choose to say those changes are about something called ‘love’.
My case is that love is a complex concept, mused over but poets, musicians, artists, scientists and people generally for centuries. To connect a chemical change to the concept of ‘love’ in all its shapes and sizes is surely an act of faith and belief.
I think that kind of thing, faith and belief, is what people who believe in God do.
Personally I think there are more grounds for criticising organised religions and their practices and behaviours than there are grounds for criticising an individual person for having faith in something…especially if that something is aspirationally ‘good’.
For some people their moral compass is dictated by parents, or by the law, or by mutual self interest, or by belief in something that goes beyond selfish desire.For many that moral debate is internal, for others they look outside themselves in order to determine what doing the ‘right thing’ is. Hence the power of religion.I think people know if they love someone, it is your own personal feeling, and not a fact for someone else. it doesn’t have to be quantifiable to anyone else. It is like saying I really love pizza - how can you prove that to someone else ? Someone else may like pizza just as much but to them it is ‘I quite like pizza’Whereas saying there is a god/creator is stating a fact that cannot possibly be shown to be true.5 -
Love is definitely something we have and it probably comes down to something that helps us keep the species going and we see it in animals too who look after their young. Then we see animals that have lots of babies and leave them to it. It is quite an amazing thing what a species does to survive. But it is all explainable scientifically. That doesn't mean we don't feel love and affection as we most certainly do.2
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It is interesting to me that science claims to prove the existence of love.
I agree that certain actions are described as loving, but can one extrapolate from that the existence of 'love' in a way that can't be reasonably disputed.
We choose to construct the meaning of 'love', but sometimes it is contradictory.4 -
Its been explained above by 3 different people. We aren’t playing this game.3
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seth plum said:It is interesting to me that science claims to prove the existence of love.
I agree that certain actions are described as loving, but can one extrapolate from that the existence of 'love' in a way that can't be reasonably disputed.
We choose to construct the meaning of 'love', but sometimes it is contradictory.1 -
It must be fact. It's in a book.7
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AddicksAddict said:Chizz said:PopIcon said:Redvaliant said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.
Wars aren't fought by faiths, they are the indulgence of men. Faith isn't the issue, greed and power are.
WWII
Civil Wars - China's, Russian
WWI
Sino-Japanese Wars
Spanish Conquests of the Americas
More recently the war in the Ukraine.
The fighting in Israel is a land conflict.Crusades (11th-13th centuries): A series of religious wars initiated by Western European Christians to regain control of the Holy Land from Muslims.Thirty Years' War (1618-1648): Initially a conflict between Protestant and Catholic states in the Holy Roman Empire, it later evolved into a broader European war involving political and territorial disputes.French Wars of Religion (1562-1598): A series of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants in France, marked by massacres, assassinations, and sieges.Islamic conquests (7th-8th centuries): Military campaigns led by Islamic caliphs to spread Islam and conquer territories across the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe.Reconquista (8th-15th centuries): A long period of military campaigns by Christian kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula to reconquer territory from Muslim rule.Jewish-Roman Wars (1st and 2nd centuries): Revolts by Jewish communities against Roman rule, motivated partly by religious beliefs and resistance to Roman religious and cultural practices.Wars of the Reformation (16th century): Conflicts across Europe sparked by the Protestant Reformation, pitting Catholic and Protestant states against each other.Irish Confederate Wars (1641-1653): Conflicts in Ireland between Catholic Confederates and Protestant English and Scottish settlers, fueled by religious, political, and ethnic tensions.Bosnian War (1992-1995): Although primarily driven by ethnic and political factors, religious identity played a significant role in the conflict between Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, and Croats.Northern Crusades (12th-16th centuries): Military campaigns by Christian kingdoms and orders to conquer and convert pagan Baltic tribes in the Baltic region.
Faith was quite different through the middle ages and the renaissance period. It was the centre of EVERYTHING. Storms, famine, diseases, people actually believed these were punishments sent by god.
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ShootersHillGuru said:MuttleyCAFC said:Other people's beliefs should be respected unless they hurt others. I don't like beliefs or even non beliefs imposed on or being used to oppress people. Jones' religion shouldn't matter to us one iota. And I'm sure it doesn't as what we are interested in is his managerial abilities.
A lot of people do have a lot of comfort from their faith and I respect that, even if I believe that on balance there is probably no God.
What I find difficult to understand is that a supposedly loving God can allow the suffering that we see all over the world. What is the purpose of making anything suffer if you have the power to stop it. So many wars are fought in the name of religion, that is where I draw the line.
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ME14addick said:ShootersHillGuru said:MuttleyCAFC said:Other people's beliefs should be respected unless they hurt others. I don't like beliefs or even non beliefs imposed on or being used to oppress people. Jones' religion shouldn't matter to us one iota. And I'm sure it doesn't as what we are interested in is his managerial abilities.
A lot of people do have a lot of comfort from their faith and I respect that, even if I believe that on balance there is probably no God.
What I find difficult to understand is that a supposedly loving God can allow the suffering that we see all over the world. What is the purpose of making anything suffer if you have the power to stop it. So many wars are fought in the name of religion, that is where I draw the line.4 -
Alwaysneil said:AddicksAddict said:EveshamAddick said:Brain washed Catholic here. Jacked it in aged 17 and it felt like a massive weight was lifted off me. Seemed odd to me that my mum who went to a Catholic school was taught that the Bible was all true (she still believes this) while I went to a Catholic school and was taught that the Bible was just stories.
Attended a faith awareness course at work a few years back with 7 or 8 religions represented (included a Druid). Hearing the subtle and yet the same differences in the various religions brought home to me the ridiculousness of all of them, and someone could have stood up with the others expounding a belief in Santa or a flat earth and it would have been just as ludicrous.
The last laugh of course will be those expecting the after life and finding there’s no such thing!0 -
ShootersHillGuru said:ME14addick said:ShootersHillGuru said:MuttleyCAFC said:Other people's beliefs should be respected unless they hurt others. I don't like beliefs or even non beliefs imposed on or being used to oppress people. Jones' religion shouldn't matter to us one iota. And I'm sure it doesn't as what we are interested in is his managerial abilities.
A lot of people do have a lot of comfort from their faith and I respect that, even if I believe that on balance there is probably no God.
What I find difficult to understand is that a supposedly loving God can allow the suffering that we see all over the world. What is the purpose of making anything suffer if you have the power to stop it. So many wars are fought in the name of religion, that is where I draw the line.1 -
PopIcon said:AddicksAddict said:Chizz said:PopIcon said:Redvaliant said:The Red Robin said:It will never not blow my mind that grown adults believe in any god or religion.
Wars aren't fought by faiths, they are the indulgence of men. Faith isn't the issue, greed and power are.
WWII
Civil Wars - China's, Russian
WWI
Sino-Japanese Wars
Spanish Conquests of the Americas
More recently the war in the Ukraine.
The fighting in Israel is a land conflict.Crusades (11th-13th centuries): A series of religious wars initiated by Western European Christians to regain control of the Holy Land from Muslims.Thirty Years' War (1618-1648): Initially a conflict between Protestant and Catholic states in the Holy Roman Empire, it later evolved into a broader European war involving political and territorial disputes.French Wars of Religion (1562-1598): A series of conflicts between Catholics and Protestants in France, marked by massacres, assassinations, and sieges.Islamic conquests (7th-8th centuries): Military campaigns led by Islamic caliphs to spread Islam and conquer territories across the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe.Reconquista (8th-15th centuries): A long period of military campaigns by Christian kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula to reconquer territory from Muslim rule.Jewish-Roman Wars (1st and 2nd centuries): Revolts by Jewish communities against Roman rule, motivated partly by religious beliefs and resistance to Roman religious and cultural practices.Wars of the Reformation (16th century): Conflicts across Europe sparked by the Protestant Reformation, pitting Catholic and Protestant states against each other.Irish Confederate Wars (1641-1653): Conflicts in Ireland between Catholic Confederates and Protestant English and Scottish settlers, fueled by religious, political, and ethnic tensions.Bosnian War (1992-1995): Although primarily driven by ethnic and political factors, religious identity played a significant role in the conflict between Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, and Croats.Northern Crusades (12th-16th centuries): Military campaigns by Christian kingdoms and orders to conquer and convert pagan Baltic tribes in the Baltic region.
I'm afraid you lost all credibility when you claimed the current tensions in the middle east weren't about religion.2 -
I can’t claim to be the thinker behind this but if as science tells us one believes that the universe is some 13 billions of years old then quite why the creator decided to wait until the last couple of thousand years to take an interest in mankind and disregarded the earliest forms of man and everything that went before a few shamen decided it was a good screw to look mysterious and make up stories to get the respect and fear of their fellows whilst not actually doing very much work.2
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From my perspective the discussion is about the internal existence we all have.
Perhaps it is our psychology, our curiosity, our morality, our compunction, our desires, our internal needs.
All of these are areas of study both intellectually and scientifically, and firm conclusions can turn out to be not so firm after all, it is as much about the journey as the destination.
Some people turn to some notion of religion to satisfy those internal needs.
Personally I don't believe organised religions are a good thing, I don't believe in theocracies, or that belief in a particular construct is a racial thing either.
I think a belief system is internal, and often shaped because of influences people have in life.
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