I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
might also been seen by younger players as how they will be treated if their face no longer fits or have a drop in form.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
Responding to your first points I think we may already see that depending on how the Alfie situation is/has been handled as well. NJ has very much of a "my way or the highway" kind of attitude from what I can tell.
I agree. I think it also part of how NJ works. He wants to set out that this is the way it works under him and players have to buy into that.
Those that won't and who don't fit his style of play will be gone while those that do, like Berry, will be brought in to be Jones' leaders on the pitch and in the dressing room.
It's possibly why he prefers younger players like Anderson and Kanu who work hard and can be fashioned into his type of player. They are also good players in their own right.
High risk strategy that didn't work at Stoke or Southampton but did at Luton, who were probably closer to where Charlton are now.
I would have thought Alfie's playing style, hard running, closing done, being general nuisance to the opposition plus his goal record would fit in with Jones desired way of playing but it seems not.
I agree, and I think selling him doesn’t make sense, but maybe he’s not doing what he’s been told to do. Maybe he’s freelancing too much for NJs liking, and not sticking to the plan.
Luton striker Joe Taylor being mentioned elsewhere. Similar in height to May. Scored 10 in 19 on loan at Lincoln last season.
If he was a permanent that would be a serious signing. Luton took him from Colchester when he was doing well on loan and I’d worry they’d do the same if he did well with us, if he only came on loan. Very very good player tbf.
Luton striker Joe Taylor being mentioned elsewhere. Similar in height to May. Scored 10 in 19 on loan at Lincoln last season.
If he was a permanent that would be a serious signing. Luton took him from Colchester when he was doing well on loan and I’d worry they’d do the same if he did well with us, if he only came on loan. Very very good player tbf.
I'd be surprised if they loaned him out at all , would expect him to be around their squad.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
might also been seen by younger players as how they will be treated if their face no longer fits or have a drop in form.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
Responding to your first points I think we may already see that depending on how the Alfie situation is/has been handled as well. NJ has very much of a "my way or the highway" kind of attitude from what I can tell.
I agree. I think it also part of how NJ works. He wants to set out that this is the way it works under him and players have to buy into that.
Those that won't and who don't fit his style of play will be gone while those that do, like Berry, will be brought in to be Jones' leaders on the pitch and in the dressing room.
It's possibly why he prefers younger players like Anderson and Kanu who work hard and can be fashioned into his type of player. They are also good players in their own right.
High risk strategy that didn't work at Stoke or Southampton but did at Luton, who were probably closer to where Charlton are now.
I would have thought Alfie's playing style, hard running, closing done, being general nuisance to the opposition plus his goal record would fit in with Jones desired way of playing but it seems not.
I agree, and I think selling him doesn’t make sense, but maybe he’s not doing what he’s been told to do. Maybe he’s freelancing too much for NJs liking, and not sticking to the plan.
Could well be but even if it isn't that is the way it will be spun by some.
I'm realistic enough to understand that good players leave and sometimes they are replaced by better or at least more suitable players.
But until I see those better or more suitable players arrive and then deliver better results on the pitch I remain sceptical.
A 1 in 2 striker in a Lincoln squad last season, 21 and highly thought of is an upgrade on May, if he sticks to that form
If it's a loan is it really an upgrade?
May scored at a better rate than 1 in 2.
So did Taylor. In fact in League 1, he scored every 149 minutes compared to May's every 151 minutes. And seeing as you love it so much his value on Transfermarkt is 350k, exactly the same as May's so they're worth the same yet he's 9 years younger, so using stats he's clearly an upgrade, and won't cost us much 😎
A 1 in 2 striker in a Lincoln squad last season, 21 and highly thought of is an upgrade on May, if he sticks to that form
If it's a loan is it really an upgrade?
May scored at a better rate than 1 in 2.
So did Taylor. In fact in League 1, he scored every 149 minutes compared to May's every 151 minutes. And seeing as you love it so much his value on Transfermarkt is 350k, exactly the same as May's so they're worth the same yet he's 9 years younger, so using stats he's clearly an upgrade, and won't cost us much 😎
Has anyone confirmed we're buying him?
If it's just a loan, we're replacing a top end League One player for a year of someone else's player (that could be removed in January). Not an upgrade for the squad at all.
Luton striker Joe Taylor being mentioned elsewhere. Similar in height to May. Scored 10 in 19 on loan at Lincoln last season.
If he was a permanent that would be a serious signing. Luton took him from Colchester when he was doing well on loan and I’d worry they’d do the same if he did well with us, if he only came on loan. Very very good player tbf.
Highly doubt they'd sell a 21 year old striker but another loan might be possible. Agree though that if he did well they might recall him given they're now only 1 league above us.
Btw after all the transfer activity we are now 5/1 to be promoted. 16/1 for the title.
Unchanged. Who would we have to sign to lower those odds I wonder. Lionel Messi?
Very much doubt any of those signings are exciting enough for punters to lump on huge bets and move the odds... not when you top scorer is about to leave the building.
Jones mentioned about Taylor a few times when he was talking about Lincoln and how well they were doing and how our point with them was a good one. Said he’s probably the quickest striker in the league.
If, and a big if, we were to sign him. That is one of the quality type players we need.
Jones mentioned about Taylor a few times when he was talking about Lincoln and how well they were doing and how our point with them was a good one. Said he’s probably the quickest striker in the league.
If, and a big if, we were to sign him. That is one of the quality type players we need.
We have missed having electric pace in the attacking third since CBT left.
A 1 in 2 striker in a Lincoln squad last season, 21 and highly thought of is an upgrade on May, if he sticks to that form
If it's a loan is it really an upgrade?
May scored at a better rate than 1 in 2.
So did Taylor. In fact in League 1, he scored every 149 minutes compared to May's every 151 minutes. And seeing as you love it so much his value on Transfermarkt is 350k, exactly the same as May's so they're worth the same yet he's 9 years younger, so using stats he's clearly an upgrade, and won't cost us much 😎
Has anyone confirmed we're buying him?
If it's just a loan, we're replacing a top end League One player for a year of someone else's player (that could be removed in January). Not an upgrade for the squad at all.
Has anyone confirmed we're buying or selling anyone, until it's on the OS?
If we’re selling May because of his profile, why sign Joe Taylor as his replacement?
Because (if true, and if Taylor maintains previous form) we'd essentially be cashing in on May while his stock is high and getting a replacement who is 9 years younger and potentially has even more value.
Massive gamble and not one I'd be convinced by but I can see what the theory is even if I don't like it.
If we’re selling May because of his profile, why sign Joe Taylor as his replacement?
Because (if true, and if Taylor maintains previous form) we'd essentially be cashing in on May while his stock is high and getting a replacement who is 9 years younger and potentially has even more value.
Massive gamble and not one I'd be convinced by but I can see what the theory is even if I don't like it.
If we’re selling May because of his profile, why sign Joe Taylor as his replacement?
Because (if true, and if Taylor maintains previous form) we'd essentially be cashing in on May while his stock is high and getting a replacement who is 9 years younger and potentially has even more value.
Massive gamble and not one I'd be convinced by but I can see what the theory is even if I don't like it.
This and there is a rumour that Jones and May had a falling out at the end of the season not sure if it’s true but one thing we do know, it was confusing how much he subbed May off and to be honest there was no difference in performance when he was in the team or not at the end of the season in fact the derby game he didn’t start was one of the best performances I had seen.
If we’re selling May because of his profile, why sign Joe Taylor as his replacement?
Because (if true, and if Taylor maintains previous form) we'd essentially be cashing in on May while his stock is high and getting a replacement who is 9 years younger and potentially has even more value.
Massive gamble and not one I'd be convinced by but I can see what the theory is even if I don't like it.
I dont think its so much profile its there whole allround game and jones seems to want more than what alfie brings
Yes May is a poacher and scores goals but is weak doesnt bring others into play win any headers or run with the ball at pace and attack defenders making goals for himself
He may see someone like Taylor bringing more of that aswell as being alot younger
I love Alfie and don’t want him to go but if it’s true that another club has offered £1.5m I will drive him there myself. That’s a great deal for him at the final stages of his career and also us. The club would be crazy to turn that down imo
I love Alfie and don’t want him to go but if it’s true that another club has offered £1.5m I will drive him there myself. That’s a great deal for him at the final stages of his career and also us. The club would be crazy to turn that down imo
How do you know the owners would re-invest the fee in new players if he does go?
I love Alfie and don’t want him to go but if it’s true that another club has offered £1.5m I will drive him there myself. That’s a great deal for him at the final stages of his career and also us. The club would be crazy to turn that down imo
How do you know the owners would re-invest the fee in new players if he does go?
I don’t mate but I think they would as they know every year we are where we are the more money they lose. Tbh my point was if that money is correct it’s life changing for Alfie and he deserves that as I presume he would get a few quid on the transfer fee and more wages
The Joe Taylor link is an odd one. I'd be very surprised if Luton were willing to let him go permanently given they're back in the Championship and he's only 21so there's likely much more to come from him. Would also indicate that it's not May's style that's the problem given we'd be replacing him with a 5ft7 striker, but something in the area of a personality clash or a desire to cash in. Though selling a 31 year old striker and replacing him for similar or the same money with a quicker 21 year old version wouldn't be the worst business on the face of it. A loan would not fill me with quite as much excitement though
The Joe Taylor link is an odd one. I'd be very surprised if Luton were willing to let him go permanently given they're back in the Championship and he's only 21so there's likely much more to come from him. Would also indicate that it's not May's style that's the problem given we'd be replacing him with a 5ft7 striker, but something in the area of a personality clash or a desire to cash in. Though selling a 31 year old striker and replacing him for similar or the same money with a quicker 21 year old version wouldn't be the worst business on the face of it. A loan would not fill me with quite as much excitement though
Although I am (grudgingly) open to the IDEA of selling May and signing Taylor as a replacement it's all predicated on that being a permanent signing - anything else and I'm in the torch and pitchfork crowd.
Presumably any deal that could be done would involve giving Luton some sort of first option/buy back option and/or some juicy sell ons and add ons.
I love Alfie and don’t want him to go but if it’s true that another club has offered £1.5m I will drive him there myself. That’s a great deal for him at the final stages of his career and also us. The club would be crazy to turn that down imo
How do you know the owners would re-invest the fee in new players if he does go?
Comments
Real problem for me is that since Aug 2020 we have started the new season with a new manager. Same again this season.
I'd be surprised if they loaned him out at all , would expect him to be around their squad.
I'm realistic enough to understand that good players leave and sometimes they are replaced by better or at least more suitable players.
But until I see those better or more suitable players arrive and then deliver better results on the pitch I remain sceptical.
May scored at a better rate than 1 in 2.
If it's just a loan, we're replacing a top end League One player for a year of someone else's player (that could be removed in January). Not an upgrade for the squad at all.
If, and a big if, we were to sign him. That is one of the quality type players we need.
…and haven't they all (in recent history) failed to see that happen ?
Massive gamble and not one I'd be convinced by but I can see what the theory is even if I don't like it.
Yes May is a poacher and scores goals but is weak doesnt bring others into play win any headers or run with the ball at pace and attack defenders making goals for himself
He may see someone like Taylor bringing more of that aswell as being alot younger
Presumably any deal that could be done would involve giving Luton some sort of first option/buy back option and/or some juicy sell ons and add ons.