I don't think he wants to risk playing a winger on the left, because we have no left footed LB. It's crazy we went there with only one in the squad and he was injured...
It could work better against a team like the Netherlands if that is who we get. I think it is dependant on the positioning of the third place teams who we get but it is more likely. I think we play the Netherlands unless the Czechs get a result against Turkey, which is more than possible.
If you asked me the four teams to avoid, I would say Spain, Portugal, France (because of their players) and Germany so it is good we have avoided them until the final but Netherlands and Italy are not easy teams. That is our most likely last 16 and QF pathway.
I am trying hard not to be biased, and maybe I still am, but Guehi doesn't do it for me. People are calling for Wharton but I am not so sure this isn't a tournament too early for him and Eze is decent at Palace but I can't see him contributing here. I would have brought Grealish and Rashford. I know they haven't been great but they have the talent and experience and are good bench players.
Having been a football geek since I was knee high to a grasshopper what upsets me is the folk who aren't football fans but will watch England every two years in Euro's and WC's and then say why are we so boring ! I have a group of friends who aren't into football but into literature ( I wandered lonely as a cloud) and I have to be the apologist every 2 years, even when we go deep into a tournament, fail to excite.
As I said last week Bobby Robson would have been sacked now, after the Euro's in 88 with conceding 7 goals in the group games and collecting nil points to ROI, Holland and Soviet union. He wasn't sacked and we made the semis in 90.
Despite gaining 5 points, being in the weakest group many of us feel lower than a dachshund's testicles. The lost to Iceland in the last friendly seems to have affected Southgate more than it should with the young talents like Gordon, Mainroo and Palmer not being given more minutes after that flat performance.
I had gone for a Jimmy Riddle at the conclusion of the match so didn't realize that Southgate got booed and possibly had beer and cups of piss jettisoned in his direction. I came back for the interview and he sounded discombobulated with the response of many in the English Crowd. I now realise what he meant by "unusual environment" and it's nothing to do with climate change.
Are England fans, ex players and casual observers being a tough crowd or are we just fed up with talent not being let off the lease earlier ?
Also whilst Palmer did well, i'm still not convinced it was the right substitution. One of our main issues is that we're not getting runners with pace up to support Kane and getting beyond him.
So Southgate's solution on 70 minutes was to take Saka off and for a time we essentially had three number 10s (Foden, Bellingham and Palmer) on the pitch who all like to come inside and occupy central areas. If you're going to keep Kane on then you need your wide players to have pace and be willing to run (players like Gordon and Saka/Bowen).
It's all a complete mess and i have no faith Southgate will make the necessary changes.
The stupid thing is that the way the draw has opened up we could get to the final the trouble with that is once again the FA etc will see that as success and order the twat a contract extension. All the talk about players like Bellingham not performing after the seasons that have had I would think they are pissed off having to play this way
Having been a football geek since I was knee high to a grasshopper what upsets me is the folk who aren't football fans but will watch England every two years in Euro's and WC's and then say why are we so boring ! I have a group of friends who aren't into football but into literature ( I wandered lonely as a cloud) and I have to be the apologist every 2 years when even when we go deep into a tournament, fail to excite.
As I said last week Bobby Robson would have been sacked now, after the Euro's in 88 with conceding 7 goals in the group games and collecting nil points to ROI, Holland and Soviet union. He wasn't sacked and we made the semis in 90.
Despite gaining 5 points, being in the weakest group many of us feel lower than a dachshund's testicles. The lost to Iceland in the last friendly seems to have affected Southgate more than it should with the young talents like Gordon, Mainroo and Palmer not being given more minutes after that flat performance.
I had gone for a Jimmy Riddle at the conclusion of the match so didn't realize that Southgate got booed and possibly had beer and cups of piss jettisoned in his direction. I came back for the interview and he sounded discombobulated with the response of many in the English Crowd. I now realise what he meant by "unusual environment" and it's nothing to do with climate change.
Are England fans, ex players and casual observers being a tough crowd or are we just fed up with talent not being let off the lease earlier ?
To be fair if you'd paid to travel over to Germany and watch that wouldn't you be annoyed? I don't think they were being a tough crowd at all.
Southgate has previous and gets paid enough not to moan about the abuse IMO. Physical intimidation is different and it is out of order throwing beer glasses at him. There is enough talent in the team to turn this around and Fergie was a master of the us against the world mentality. Maybe England can channel it, rightly or wrongly.
Q.Gareth why did you only give Gordon 1 minute when we struggled to attack down the left;we had already qualified ?
I'm just baffled why Southgate didn't give Palmer and Gordon at least 45 minutes to show what they can do. With both on the field we looked more dangerous.
I'm not normally critical of England but in the 3 games we look so ordinary.
I look at it and wonder if Gareth is trying to be clever and have them in his back pocket for the next round.
I say trying to be clever as they won't be as sharp or conditioned having not played a full game since the end of the season.
I'd like to see Gomez or Konsa in Guehi's spot especially after he's made a mistake every game so far that could have led to goals.
As usual, the fans are there in their thousands, sweating buckets spending cash and having a great time until an England side turn up and stink the place out!
Get your act together Southgate and all because you are a national fucking embarrassment and we have surplus of those already.
We’ve been given a bye to the final again if we don’t have Holland the rest a proper load of shit
Dont think so, Austria who have finished above France (most peoples favourites) and Netherlands.
Agree. Netherlands and Italy have enough to beat us. In fact thinking about it, we couldn't beat Denmark or Slovenia so any one of those teams bar Georgia have a chance.
Also whilst Palmer did well, i'm still not convinced it was the right substitution. One of our main issues is that we're not getting runners with pace up to support Kane and getting beyond him.
So Southgate's solution on 70 minutes was to take Saka off and for a time we essentially had three number 10s (Foden, Bellingham and Palmer) on the pitch who all like to come inside and occupy central areas. If you're going to keep Kane on then you need your wide players to have pace and be willing to run (players like Gordon and Saka/Bowen).
It's all a complete mess and i have no faith Southgate will make the necessary changes.
Agree. Gordon immediately made a beautiful pass that had Palmer been a bit more alert could have been 1-0. Saka I think buries that chance.
Q.Gareth why did you only give Gordon 1 minute when we struggled to attack down the left;we had already qualified ?
I'm just baffled why Southgate didn't give Palmer and Gordon at least 45 minutes to show what they can do. With both on the field we looked more dangerous.
I'm not normally critical of England but in the 3 games we look so ordinary.
I look at it and wonder if Gareth is trying to be clever and have them in his back pocket for the next round.
I say trying to be clever as they won't be as sharp or conditioned having not played a full game since the end of the season.
I'd like to see Gomez or Konsa in Guehi's spot especially after he's made a mistake every game so far that could have led to goals.
What Guehi does in this side is when he gets the ball he makes a simple pass and as you say, you can see he has mistakes in him. In a game like yesterday he was the extra pass which was not needed. I'd like to see somebody playing there with a bit more ability on the ball.
Guehi has been one of our best players, him and Stones are forming a good partnership, dropping him would be crazy.
It depends on what you are looking for. For me he is what I would call an extra pass player for a team like England. You pass to him, he will pass it generally to a white shirt but you have gained nothing from his pass and it slows you down as a team having him there. I appreciate he is there to defend but I think he has looked dodgy a couple of times at least and I worry a top player/s may exploit that.
Guehi has been one of our best players, him and Stones are forming a good partnership, dropping him would be crazy.
It depends on what you are looking for. For me he is what I would call an extra pass player for a team like England. You pass to him, he will pass it generally to a white shirt but you have gained nothing from his pass and it slows you down as a team having him there. I appreciate he is there to defend but I think he has looked dodgy a couple of times at least and I worry a top player/s may exploit that.
That's better than a lot of what i've been watching from some players then.
Guehi has been one of our best players, him and Stones are forming a good partnership, dropping him would be crazy.
It depends on what you are looking for. For me he is what I would call an extra pass player for a team like England. You pass to him, he will pass it generally to a white shirt but you have gained nothing from his pass and it slows you down as a team having him there. I appreciate he is there to defend but I think he has looked dodgy a couple of times at least and I worry a top player/s may exploit that.
That's better than a lot of what i've been watching from some players then.
I know what you mean but I think the answer to that is no. To play an incisive pass that gains you something, there is an element of risk that it will be intercepted of miss its intended target. In a game like yesterday, we could have passed it around the back all day but that isn't a good thing.
I don't mind the slow passing but every player should be able to spot an opportunity and go for it when it arises, not pass it up. If you forgive the pun. I think England have enough ability to do this. The 'extra pass' players make it easier for defenders and actually stifle the team in possession.
So many criticise Pep for having the best players to coach - the "yeh but let's see what Pep could do with a League 1 side". What do we think he could do with a squad made up of the likes of Pickford, Walker, Stones, Guehi, Trippier, Gomez, Konsa, Palmer, Foden, Rice, Kane, Mainoo, Gallagher, Saka, Bellingham, Wharton, Eze, Gordon, Watkins, Bowen, etc etc? We wouldn't be scoring 8 goals in 8 games that's for sure. He wouldn't need a couple of weeks to sort it out. He'd need a couple of minutes. He wouldn't be waiting 'til the 89th minute to bring the pace of Gordon on. It's the difference between what we deserve and what we have and begs the question "yeh but let's see what Southgate could do with a League 1 side".
In an interview in 2021 shared by Eurosport, he spoke of his intention to manage a national side once he finishes his time at Manchester City. He said: “The next step will be a national team if the opportunity presents itself. I must take a break after seven years (at Manchester City). I’d need to stop and look, learn from other coaches and then maybe take that path. I would like to coach in a European Championship, a Copa America, a World Cup.”
My eldest spends his money following us all around the world. He and others that do deserve better than Southgate. If we win the Euros (let's face it we've been gifted the better half of the draw in avoiding Germany, France, Spain and Portugal) it will be in spite of him not because of him.
Palmer has to play and Gordon too but what was Ian Wright on about with Saka at left back? Play Gomez surely. As for Trippier does he have to take every corner and free kick.... Dreadful performance and we'd struggle to beat anybody in the knockout. As for Bellingham... Nuff said.
not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere but watching England trying to build on the left with only right footed players is excruciating. it is slow and predictable. I support England but cannot get excited about this England team.
Wright was making the point that Saka has played left back for Arsenal. It might have been a good call yesterday but maybe less so against a better side.
Palmer has to play and Gordon too but what was Ian Wright on about with Saka at left back? Play Gomez surely. As for Trippier does he have to take every corner and free kick.... Dreadful performance and we'd struggle to beat anybody in the knockout. As for Bellingham... Nuff said.
I think Saka at left wingback makes some sense - he's left footed, he's played there before, and he'd push up which we've been lacking. Plus with a 352 we might be able to get someone up top with Kane to stretch teams given he keeps dropping off anyway.
Trippier out there isn't working.
Even left back tbh at this point, given we've missed the best chance to try a different formation etc last night when we were through already.
I’ve been a Southgate supporter for a while, as the results have largely outshone the performances with decent consistency across tournaments. It’s hard to watch this and defend it though. I guess the only defence is the fact that we haven’t lost and have topped the group.
Me too, I also think only taking Shaw at LB is absolutely inexcusable.
Substitutions have been utterly ridiculous too, he seems to have become even more stubborn.
In a squad of 26, most of whom won't get used anyway, you can probably afford to take 1 player who is a gamble, so i don't see taking Shaw as an issue. The problem is not taking any other naturally left sided full back, so we are now having to play Trippier and (for a few minutes last night) Trent there.
I'd be interested to know if Trent has ever played at left back in his life and if not then why does Southgate think a European championship is the time to try that? I'd honestly rather have taken someone like Mitchell at Palace or even Chilwell who at least know the role and won't slow play down by having to come back inside every time, than sticking right footed players there.
This is thrme main issue for me. Why no one else?
The problem is then exacerbated because Southgate had clearly decided on his front 4 and won't change that. It includes foden cutting in on the left and Saka providing width on the right. If that was the other way around then it would be fine as walker would be overlapping on the right providing width. Trippier just hasn't got a left foot at all so can't even once or twice a game get up the line and provide a threat. He always wants foden ahead of him. It's then made even further worse by Kanes fitness/style of play. He isn't gonna make those runs in behind to stretch the defence, Foden likes to play with the defence in front of him and its not really Sakas game. We need someone to make those runs and stretch defences.
Something has to change. I see the options as - Gordon starts on the left, Foden inside, Bellingham in CM - Switch Saka to the left (he's not been so good we can't move him) and Foden/Palmer to the right - switch to a back 3 with Walker at RCB, Trent RWB, Saka LWB (not ideal but again not like he's tearing up trees so we can't move him). This allows Foden and Bellingham to play off Kane and keep Rice & Mainoo in CM. - Walker LB, Trent RB. I'm less keen on this. He's not left footed but Walker might make a better go of it than Trippier and his pace will scare defenders. We still get to keep Trent in the side and the benefit of his long passing ability from a role where he doesn't have the responsibility of controlling the game.
All of those give us width and runners off Kane. Adapting mid tournament isn't ideal when you've spent all your prep working on one system but I think we've reached the point it has to happen.
It's a weird tournament so far. I haven't really got into it as much as I normally would and I think part of it is because the sideshow around Southgate has become too much. I'm really, really tired of the constant unfailing criticism of him when Jude Bellingham fails to control a ball or Harry Kane falls over for no reason and I think the finality of it all is starting to affect the team overall. It's clear that Southgate is going after this tournament whether we win or lose it. Everyone knows that and it means people are already looking past this tournament to the next one and what could be done differently, pretty much the exact opposite of the atmosphere we had around the squad in 2018 where Southgate had about 15 minutes to put a squad together and had a free hit. We've been rubbish so far. Dull, one-paced and visibly terrified in a way we haven't normally been since Southgate came in. Despite that though we've won our group and got the good side of the draw again. I think it wouldn't hurt the fans who are there to take it a little bit easier - i.e. don't chuck things at the manager - as the tournament progresses. If we lose he's gone anyway, even if we win he's gone, personally I'd be much more focused on why the players seem to have forgotten how to control a ball or move to receive a pass and why they look so much like they'd rather have the summer off, and I don't think it's a low block and safety first football that's causing it. The worst thing that could happen at the end of the Southgate era is we go back to hating the players and them lashing out at fans and the media again.
Taking Shaw isn't a gamble. It is on his injury but not his match fitness because he isn't match fit and won't be. The last time he played a game was on 18th February. That's more than four months ago. An international competition is not the place to test his fitness but, more to the point, his match sharpness. If we don't believe that then why do sides spend a month pre-season building that? I wouldn't mind betting that he won't play a minute for those reasons.
Aha, I am not biased against Palace as the player I would have considered taking would have been Mitchell. Also Chilwell has been injured since April but was scheduled to be ready for the Euros so both might have been a better pick than Shaw. Maybe if Southgate had balls he would go with Wright's suggestion and put Saka there. He is not having a tournament where he can't be moved and indeed his place could be under threat. It could go wrong but in the immortal words of Delboy, Who dares wins.
Just play bellingham in the 8, foden in the 10 and gordon/palmer on the left. Every fan and pundit across the country has been screaming for it since the start of the tournament but Southgate has this weird stubbornness that will ultimately see him fail again.
We have arguably the best squad of players in the world at the moment but the sum of our parts is far less than the whole, we don't play well as a team, no coherent strategy, gameplan or style and that has to be down to the manager.
Comments
If you asked me the four teams to avoid, I would say Spain, Portugal, France (because of their players) and Germany so it is good we have avoided them until the final but Netherlands and Italy are not easy teams. That is our most likely last 16 and QF pathway.
I am trying hard not to be biased, and maybe I still am, but Guehi doesn't do it for me. People are calling for Wharton but I am not so sure this isn't a tournament too early for him and Eze is decent at Palace but I can't see him contributing here. I would have brought Grealish and Rashford. I know they haven't been great but they have the talent and experience and are good bench players.
I have a group of friends who aren't into football but into literature ( I wandered lonely as a cloud) and I have to be the apologist every 2 years, even when we go deep into a tournament, fail to excite.
As I said last week Bobby Robson would have been sacked now, after the Euro's in 88 with conceding 7 goals in the group games and collecting nil points to ROI, Holland and Soviet union. He wasn't sacked and we made the semis in 90.
Despite gaining 5 points, being in the weakest group many of us feel lower than a dachshund's testicles.
The lost to Iceland in the last friendly seems to have affected Southgate more than it should with the young talents like Gordon, Mainroo and Palmer not being given more minutes after that flat performance.
I had gone for a Jimmy Riddle at the conclusion of the match so didn't realize that Southgate got booed and possibly had beer and cups of piss jettisoned in his direction.
I came back for the interview and he sounded discombobulated with the response of many in the English Crowd.
I now realise what he meant by "unusual environment" and it's nothing to do with climate change.
Are England fans, ex players and casual observers being a tough crowd or are we just fed up with talent not being let off the lease earlier ?
So Southgate's solution on 70 minutes was to take Saka off and for a time we essentially had three number 10s (Foden, Bellingham and Palmer) on the pitch who all like to come inside and occupy central areas. If you're going to keep Kane on then you need your wide players to have pace and be willing to run (players like Gordon and Saka/Bowen).
It's all a complete mess and i have no faith Southgate will make the necessary changes.
I say trying to be clever as they won't be as sharp or conditioned having not played a full game since the end of the season.
I'd like to see Gomez or Konsa in Guehi's spot especially after he's made a mistake every game so far that could have led to goals.
Get your act together Southgate and all because you are a national fucking embarrassment and we have surplus of those already.
I don't mind the slow passing but every player should be able to spot an opportunity and go for it when it arises, not pass it up. If you forgive the pun. I think England have enough ability to do this. The 'extra pass' players make it easier for defenders and actually stifle the team in possession.
In an interview in 2021 shared by Eurosport, he spoke of his intention to manage a national side once he finishes his time at Manchester City. He said: “The next step will be a national team if the opportunity presents itself. I must take a break after seven years (at Manchester City). I’d need to stop and look, learn from other coaches and then maybe take that path. I would like to coach in a European Championship, a Copa America, a World Cup.”
My eldest spends his money following us all around the world. He and others that do deserve better than Southgate. If we win the Euros (let's face it we've been gifted the better half of the draw in avoiding Germany, France, Spain and Portugal) it will be in spite of him not because of him.
I think Saka at left wing back makes some sense - he's left footed, he's played there before, and he'd push up which we've been lacking. Plus with a 352 we might be able to get someone up top with Kane to stretch teams given he keeps dropping off anyway.
Trippier out there isn't working.
Even left back tbh at this point, given we've missed the best chance to try a different formation etc last night when we were through already.
I agree Gomez makes more sense than Trippier.
The problem is then exacerbated because Southgate had clearly decided on his front 4 and won't change that. It includes foden cutting in on the left and Saka providing width on the right. If that was the other way around then it would be fine as walker would be overlapping on the right providing width. Trippier just hasn't got a left foot at all so can't even once or twice a game get up the line and provide a threat. He always wants foden ahead of him.
It's then made even further worse by Kanes fitness/style of play. He isn't gonna make those runs in behind to stretch the defence, Foden likes to play with the defence in front of him and its not really Sakas game. We need someone to make those runs and stretch defences.
Something has to change. I see the options as
- Gordon starts on the left, Foden inside, Bellingham in CM
- Switch Saka to the left (he's not been so good we can't move him) and Foden/Palmer to the right
- switch to a back 3 with Walker at RCB, Trent RWB, Saka LWB (not ideal but again not like he's tearing up trees so we can't move him). This allows Foden and Bellingham to play off Kane and keep Rice & Mainoo in CM.
- Walker LB, Trent RB. I'm less keen on this. He's not left footed but Walker might make a better go of it than Trippier and his pace will scare defenders. We still get to keep Trent in the side and the benefit of his long passing ability from a role where he doesn't have the responsibility of controlling the game.
All of those give us width and runners off Kane. Adapting mid tournament isn't ideal when you've spent all your prep working on one system but I think we've reached the point it has to happen.
knew I'd seen that table before... 1990 world cup! Gonna lose to Germany on pens then
i do not expect any of the above to happen.
We have arguably the best squad of players in the world at the moment but the sum of our parts is far less than the whole, we don't play well as a team, no coherent strategy, gameplan or style and that has to be down to the manager.