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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
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There is not one of our midfield who is good enough for a promotion team, so they would all have to be replaced. We don't have a striker pair that work together ( nor a natural goalscorer) so that would need fixing. Our goalies are rubbish and the defence too easily breached.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve always felt that this season we’d fall short. I don’t think it’s really possible to get your promotion squad together in one window. However, I’m actually shocked at how far off we actually look. I expected something like an eighth place finish but I’m afraid I just can’t see it. I thought we’d have the skeleton of our first eleven tied up in the summer and we’d tweak in January and build on the core next summer. Looks to me like we’ll be needing to start the build process over next summer because what we have isn’t anything like good enough. That’s also not taking into consideration the damned awful football being served up by Jones. I’m far from confident for next season already.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I can understand many people thinking that but personally given where we were when Jones took over and where we finished last season, i don't think it's necessarily fair to say not making the play offs would be a failure. Expecting a side that was on the verge of relegation to be in the play offs 15 months later is a big step up.ElfsborgAddick said:
If we do not end up in the play-offs come the end of the season this will be seen as failure.Callumcafc said:
I’m saying the style of play argument would disappear as soon as we win a few games and therefore it’s a weak argument against Jones compared to just being honest and saying you don’t like that we’re not winning.paulsturgess said:
Repeat a question from before.Callumcafc said:
Is this not proving my point a bit? People were finding reason to moan about the performance because we weren’t winning. Bet if you check the post match thread here you wouldn’t find many negative comments.Stig said:
Try reading the match thread rather than the post match thread and you'll find that there were plenty of dissenting voices. People revise their opinions post-match to take account of the result, but that does not mean that they are satisfied whilst watching.Callumcafc said:
You must be misremembering… the entire forum was buzzing after our third win of the season - citing exactly the things I called out. Desire, commitment, hard work…eaststandmike said:
I recall a fair few fans on here complaining about the style of play when we won our first three games of the season, AFKA touched on it in a post recently as well and got dozens of likes for it.Callumcafc said:
Fans always talk about style of football and how much it matters when their team isn't winning but in reality no-one actually cares if you're winning games.hezzla said:I think it's way too early to be thinking about ditching Jones tbh. Just for once I'd like to see what happens when we let a manager try to work through a problem, rather than just sacking them and hoping the next person in does better.
Just for comparison it's worth looking back at what Wycombe fans thought of Matt Bloomfield at the start of this year:"I'm gobsmacked so many want to stick with him still. His record is awful, I want to say worst of anyone since we've been a league club, but I'm not sure, but can't be far off."
"I'm not vociferously Bloomfield Out but if there was a magic button to get rid of home without any financial drama, then I'd press it. It's not even the results for me, it's the tedious nature of the football... Previous managers have gone for lesser losing runs and entertainment reasons."
Their board stuck with him and now they're top of the table and the top goal-scorers in the division. He's on a 5-game winning streak and being linked with jobs in the Championship.
If we were winning under Jones everyone would be loving the "passion, commitment and work rate" and forgetting the rest.
It's no coincidence that the last time people say they enjoyed watching Charlton was in 2019 under Bowyer and before that 2012 under Powell.
Neither of them were or are tactical geniuses - ask fans of other clubs they managed about their tactics and they'll tell you it was poor, because they didn't win.
Ultimately, win games and every football fan can trick themselves into believing the football is good.
People don’t care. If you win.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98453/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-bolton-wanderers-saturday-24th-august-2024-ko-15-00/p1
Retrospectively, most people aren't too bothered if we win. In the moment, they absolutely are.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98413/match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p10
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/98415/post-match-thread-charlton-athletic-v-leyton-orient-saturday-17th-august-2024-ko-12-30/p1
“Deserved win” “superb second half” “I like the application and desire”
Similarly, I read that I chose a “bad game” to reference against Bolton because it was our “best of the season”.Was it? How did we play any differently? Nathan Jones didn’t set us up to be all conquering ball playing maestros for one match and then abandon it. The tactics would’ve been the same, or very similar, as usual. We all enjoyed it because it produced a result.
What point are you making here Callum? As I’m not clear. It feels like you are defending Jones, his style, and his outcomes merely for the sake of being contrary.Do you believe in his tactics/ philosophy and do you think he will succeed?People see negatives when we don’t get results and they see the positives when we do get results. Ben Garner set up with the opposite style to NJ (surely this is the type of manager we want if we want attacking football) and still got panned by fans - because we stopped winning games.There is no right or wrong way to play football and only results tend to matter.
And yes, I do believe that the way Jones intends to have our team play can get results and can be successful. It’s not been so successful lately (over a period of less than two months) but I’m willing to give him more time.
We finished 16th, miles off the play offs and won fewer games than any side that wasn't relegated. For me if we were to finish say 8/9/10th and were playing decent football (we are not) and there was hope that with another summer window we'd progress further then i don't think i'd class that as Jones 'failing' at his job.
I am not sure what exactly then we would be 'building' on.0 -
4 year contract wasn’t it
Big old pay off that5 -
CL_Phantom said:Been saying give him to the end of the season but genuinely not sure anymore. Terrible football, terrible signings.
If we're not in danger of a relegation scrap then stick and see how Rob Elliott progresses over the season, young coach without delusions of being a league one Pep and will have earned some decent experience.
In the meantime give the job to Jason Pearce. Not a single game more with Jones.
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I don't remember us ever playing this bad when Duchatelet was the owner.vff said:Its Groundhog Day. Similar to when Duchatelet was in charge. If the budget is insufficient, & there are gaping holes in team then most managers are going to get exposed.Not defending Jones but what manager or team is going to succeed or flourish under the current circumstances ?2 -
In general a managers contract length is largely irrelevant - almost all manager contracts have a 12 month pay off that works both ways I.e to sack him you pay a years wages and if a team wants him they pay you a years wages as compo.Southendaddick said:4 year contract wasn’t it
Big old pay off that7 -
Can’t comment on today as didn’t see but losing faith in Jones but even less faith in Scott to adequately replace him. If you’re going to sack one you have to sack both8
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The point about the academy players is especially valid, here. Developing youth and maximizing the profitability of the academy underpins the current owners plans. The way we are currently playing, and the decaying atmosphere around the Valley on match days, is doing those young players being blooded no good at all.Scoham said:Had enough of this anti-football.
The players can’t believe in or enjoy this.
Nothing for fans to get behind.
This isn’t the style we should be bringing academy prospects into.We’ve had more than a few dreadful squads in the last 20 years but Jones has created the dullest of them all.
I don’t want the tippy tappy stuff we saw under Garner but can we get a manager capable of finding the right balance between attacking play and stopping other teams from playing?
I could put up with it if we were effective but we’re nowhere near that.
My fear is the narrow score lines will keep Jones in the job for a while. We’re not being dominated or torn apart, we’re just seeing the same issues we’ve seen since he took over.
His increased demands on intensity, aggression and effort kept us up last season. However despite a top 6 budget and full preseason we’re no better off than last season. He’s purposely avoided signing attacking players who can offer width, pace or flair.
I expected progress in some form but I struggle to see Jones changing his ways enough to properly turn this around.
Do the board and owners want to give him another window? They must already have an idea of the type of players he wants to bring in. I would guess it’s more of the same rather than wingers and creative midfielders.
We’re not going to grind our way to the Championship playing this “style” but Jones looks to me like a manager set in his ways.3 -
fenaddick said:Can’t comment on today as didn’t see but losing faith in Jones but even less faith in Scott to adequately replace him. If you’re going to sack one you have to sack both
Absolutely agree Scott has to go too. Appointed Appleton and Jones who have both been disasters , shouldn't get the chance to appoint a third manager.7 -
The rarest of things coming your way, an apology from me.Braziliance said:
No I actually don't know full well, because I can't understand how people keep saying ''if we were winning matches with this style you wouldn't care" as that's literally impossible, as no team ever had won anything with how we are playing.Radostanradical said:
Because they are bottom of the table and only have 8 points and it wasn't ugly we were terrible. You know full well that isn't the point people are making. The point is if we were consistently winning matches people wouldn't mind the the style of football that achieves results.Braziliance said:I keep seeing the comments along the lines of ''if we were winning, no one would care'' on here and on twitter, and I have to take issue with that.
Not one person at Burton, or the majority of away games I've been to has said we played well etc that I interacted with. I'd actually say every single person I could hear or see around me at Burton was criticising how we played and when we did score, it was more just relief we got a result.
Not being a snob, and not attacking anyone's credentials as a Charlton fan or how much they attend, but it is a completely different feeling travelling for 7+ hours through the day and watching a poor performance, over sitting on the couch and spending a tenner on CharltonTV. I'm speaking from experience here. When I watched Huddersfield away the other week on the telly, I didn't feel anywhere near as disappointed as Reading away as a more recent example when we lost.
Ok I was disappointed Charlton lost, but it's a lot easier accepting s**t performances and bad results when you can just get off your couch and put on call of duty or Netflix etc.
If I spend 60-100 on petrol, 20+ on a ticket, every other weekend, I expect us to look like a team who has practiced and show ability.
I need to make it clear I'm not gate keeping, it's just the levels of disappointment just can't be the same when you're there, as opposed to watching from the comfort at home.
If you went to any other sport and said right, play this s**t style, that doesn't entertain fans, and doesn't create enough chances on average to win what kind of reaction would you get?
There isn't a style, even our own manager alludes to that every other presser by saying "we aren't getting the basics right". If you can't get your team to function and do the simple stuff, how can there be a style.
No team has ever got promotion from this league playing this 'style' as it is simply not a style. It's a confused mixture of s**t. It's barely jack of all trades and absolutely master of none football.
You are completely right, I agree he has to go now imo. Not only will we not get promoted i genuinely believe we may be fighting relegation now. The style of football is crap and whilst, as previously mentioned, I can forgive that if we get results. We look no way like getting results now and i feel like Jones actively WANTS the sack now but doesnt want to give up the cash.2 -
Win ever home match and draw ever away match until end of season 78 points.Lewis Coaches said:Thought for the day.Normally to make play offs you need an average 75points.
if Charlton were to get a point from every away match and a win from every home match from today , we would have 79 points come end of season.
As we all know that’s not going to happen, question surely is can Nathan Jones survive till end of year?Don’t believe our owners can afford to pay him off ,so please Nathan do us all a favor and just walk away.Yes I know that won’t happen also.Season written off in November.
Season written off , SMT plus Jones thanks for nothing.
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I have been in the we can't keep sacking managers camp but I am fast moving out of it. I expect a defeat on Saturday and that's us fcuked for the season.2
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CALLUM3
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Get rid of him, he doesnt want to be here thats clear. I can accept ugly football if we win but i genuinely after 30 years of watching football cant recognize what he is trying to do ?! Even under Garner I could vaguely understand the philosophy.
Jones wants out but wants the cash so wont quit IMO. Make a deal and get Jacko back.2 -
He's done, I can't see him turning this around, we don't seem to make any progress from week to week. He's too much of a stubborn nutcase, way too cocky, thinks the knows it all. Someone once said about success, the day you tell yourself you've made it is the day it's all over. You have to constantly evolve and learn. He's still living off his Luton success. And don't get me started about all his Luton players we have here, absolute garbage.4
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I'm been defending Jones and saying we can't keep sacking managers, we need to give someone time. But that's it I'm done, Jones has got to go. And take Scott with you Nathan, it's been a disaster since he arrived. So fucked off right now.9
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Approaching an hour without a post match interview, rarely a good sign for the manage9
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Want Jones gone but if he does we will undoubtedly be in the exact same position next season. New manager comes in, keeps
us up, “rebuilds” in summer, shit again next season5 -
He is utterly f***ing clueless. Random substitutions/formation and only tactic is hoofball and long throws.
A complete shambles.10 -
When your first material act as manager was to alienate Alfie May it was a red flag.
He's built a team of poor or vastly underperforming players from Luton etc and messed about trying to convert Campbell into a striker as if he was the next Thierry Henry.
No creativity in that squad and just hit and hope football which was sussed out months ago by half the league.
Scraped a win v 10 man Burton and a couple of wins v lower league opponents in the cups but other than that we've been clueless for months.
Had the chance to get back into sight of the playoffs tonight at home v a poor side and we come away 4 points off the relegation zone.
Not seen anything to suggest he'll turn us around and has hugely failed to deliver.
Grim de ja vu.21 -
Icing on the cake was sticking Campbell at RWB, which completely nullified the reason to bring him on which was to create something.7
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Henry Irving said:
Very good points but since some people have asked.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Redmidland said:PWR, those who advocate sacking NJ, who do you suggest comes in? There is no outstanding candidate that I can see that's realistic. We keep changing managers on a far to regular basis, and it hasn't worked! .
Not sure where I am on the Jones stay or go point at present other than his results are not good enough and antics on the sideline come across as petulant rather than passionate when the chips are down.
But on this specific point - I've never really thought it is relevant what fans think....most of us aren't in a position to know who is available/ would come in. I am Charlton through and through and follow everything about the club but have a full time job and very little time to follow/ study the ins and outs of the football league.
Point being we have a well paid (I expect) Senior Management Team for which an integral role is succession planning and maintaining an ongoing and up to date shortlist of whom is available/ may be interested and when...or should do given how high managerial turnover is is the modern game.
Keeping a poor manager because us fans don't know who would replace them isnt really a material factor. At the same time it relies on having a management team capable of making such appointments which let's face it is a lottery nowadays whether you look a Charlton or behemoths like man united. I think it is just a dice roll and lotto and today's hot property soon becomes yesterday's man after a failed season or too in football.
Millwall and Palace have recycled and changed managers with one knocking on the door of Championship playoffs having rehired a previous club hero and another spending their umpteenth season in the premier league whilst we languish in our increasingly natural home of league one.
I would never have got rid of Powell or Jackson and think Holden was probably given too little time but am agnostic about all of the other departures other than them in the last 15 years.
Whether we should stick with an underperforming manager who has assembled a mediocre squad that is playing turgid football and not winning week in week alienated the league's top scorer and believes Tyreece Campbell is a striker and a bunch of Luton old boys are the answer is a separate question....but absence of fans' knowledge in who is available/ would be better isn't really a consideration as it is one that should be the sole responsibility of the people running the circus. It is literally their job and responsibility to ensure they are all over this given that the manager is perhaps the most important role at a football club.
There is a young up and coming manager, played in the top flight but started his managerial career in non-league where he did well enough to get poached by a league 1 club and is currently doing OK with them.
And for those that like a Charlton connection is a former player.
In fact he's a fan.
Ladies and gentlemen I give you Robbie Elliott
Just quoting this for @IR940 -
I could see we would struggle to break them down from the starting team. No pace or width whatsoever. We are a defenders dream to play against when we try to beat teams. Walsall tried to beat us which was a stupid tactic. Keep it tight and we will gift you a goal or two.3
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So angry at that, 4th highest budget in the league!? Absolute shambles.1
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The only thing I would say is that the average age of the bench was 22, that’s heavily skewed by Jones being 29, without him it’s average age was basically 20.
We are relying on kids to come on and change things when the set up, structure, style, and team in general is a mess.
We have no hope and there isn’t a single person who believes this is going to work.
The board have made a mess of all of this, letting go of our best 3 players and replacing with far inferior. If Jones leaves that will be onto the 4th permanent manager in less than 2 seasons.
I am now very much at the point that this cannot continue. However, it doesn’t matter if it’s Jones in charge or anyone else. We are not having success with the personnel at and running the club.
3rd December and our season is well and truly done. It’s pathetic.14 -
I’m the Chairman of the NJ fan club. I’ve just resigned.8
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My sources from within the club have told me we havent heard from Jones because Charlie and the salmon trousers crew have called him for a meeting.
Jones ran off locked himself in a toilet cubicle and is currently chanting "WE BEAT BIRMINGHAM, BSM QUARTER FINALS, WE JUST NEED TO DO THE BASICS RIGHT" over and over again3 -
Wouldn't pay out his contract, would keep him on as the understudy to the groundsman and boot / kit man, cutting and polishing and cleaning till he gets the hump and quits. He might be paid his salary but it would fuck him up in a heartbeat.0
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Biggest flag for me.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:When your first material act as manager was to alienate Alfie May it was a red flag.
He's built a team of poor or vastly underperforming players from Luton etc and messed about trying to convert Campbell into a striker as if he was the next Thierry Henry.
No creativity in that squad and just hit and hope football which was sussed out months ago by half the league.
Scraped a win v 10 man Burton and a couple of wins v lower league opponents in the cups but other than that we've been clueless for months.
Had the chance to get back into sight of the playoffs tonight at home v a poor side and we come away 4 points off the relegation zone.
Not seen anything to suggest he'll turn us around and has hugely failed to deliver.
Grim de ja vu.
Never in a million years.
His sideshow Bob ranting and jumping about all game having no effect whatsoever on this shower of shit either. 'All for show' as one of the previous incumbents used to call it I believe.
God help the next bloke that comes in working with this shoddy group of players and even shoddier board level management bozos3 -
Thought Crawley despite being limited actually worked the ball well going forward compared to our aimless kicks up field.
Performances are not getting better6
