Trying to analyse why we were so poor and I come back to the same conclusion I have all season. The midfield is so poor. They have been run around by teams all season. They seem incapable of passing to each other, moving forward as a unit and creating chances for the forwards. In recent games they also have been poor in protecting the back four. I assume Jones has recognised this, hence the long ball tactics to bypass midfield, but we are not even good at hoofball. This is the area where Jones needs needs to improve the team.
I’m not sure if they’ve downed tools but clearly Jones is not getting a tune out of them for some reason. There are decent players, certainly at this level, in there somewhere. For me the most shocking underperformer is Docherty. He was an integral part of Hull’s L1 winning team, played nearly 100 games in the Championship, goal of the season winner, a ‘fams favourite’ and always put in a decent shift when I’ve been to the MKM Stadium. He should be pulling up trees in L1 this season but it’s shocking to see how poor he’s been.
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
My point is that as it stands we have three more years of this. Or two and a half. If there are affordable termination clauses for Jones, Ahadme, Docherty and Berry then I would favour termination rather than years more of this agony.
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
My point is that as it stands we have three more years of this. Or two and a half.
But we don't, do we? When has any manager failed so utterly and then seen out his long remaining contract?
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
My point is that as it stands we have three more years of this. Or two and a half.
But we don't, do we? When has any manager failed so utterly and then seen out his long remaining contract?
I wrote ‘as it stands’. If it is a simple process I would terminate the contract of Jones today.
Laughable that I was once worried if he did too well for us in this league, he may leave us. Now it would be the best news ever.
I was asleep during the whole game yesterday and woke up to seeing those stats, and seems like I had a touch. The performance sounds unbelievably bad.
No disrespect to Leyton Orient, but conceding that many chances to them is a stackable offence. There's no way their squad is that much better than ours, surely.
Get him gone before Mansfield, they're in dreadful form and an interim could probably get a result against them anyway. Give us more time to get someone in.
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
My point is that as it stands we have three more years of this. Or two and a half.
But we don't, do we? When has any manager failed so utterly and then seen out his long remaining contract?
I wrote ‘as it stands’. If it is a simple process I would terminate the contract of Jones today.
It is a very simple process. Any and every contract can be terminated and the process for doing so will be written in the contract itself. Trust me, I know!
If it was so difficult then why would the role of a professional football manager be one of, if not the, most insecure roles.
Jones was a high'ish profile manager, and as GC has previously stated, getting out of this pub league is a 3-5 year plan. It is highly unlikely that they could have got Jones with a shorter contract - and I'm assuming it's a 3.5 year deal rather than 4. I'm sure the SMT were not anticipating Jones would fail as badly as he has!
The length of the contract has very likely no impact on the termination clause.
My point is that as it stands we have three more years of this. Or two and a half.
But we don't, do we? When has any manager failed so utterly and then seen out his long remaining contract?
I wrote ‘as it stands’. If it is a simple process I would terminate the contract of Jones today.
It is a very simple process. Any and every contract can be terminated and the process for doing so will be written in the contract itself. Trust me, I know!
If it was so difficult then why would the role of a professional football manager be one of, if not the, most insecure roles.
Fair enough. Quite a number of our fans might think the cost of a simple termination of Jones’ contract might bankrupt the club. Let alone continuing to pay the wages of the dud players who we have brought in.
Very disappointing game last night. Realistically that competition should be a relatively achievable route to Wembley for a club of our size but last night 0-2 flattered us and it could easily have been 0-5 or 0-6. Orient absolutely battered us. If we play anything like that on Saturday then Cloughie’s boys will thump us and the crowd will be going absolutely loopy.
We desperately need someone creative who will demand the ball and make stuff happen. Everyone is too scared to give it away so we constantly go backwards for the safe option. That’s why Enslin was rated so highly against Bromley – he wanted the ball and wanted to make things happen. He tried passes that were tricky but didn’t get disheartened when they didn’t work out.
Kaheim started off industriously last night but then barely touched the ball for the second 20 minutes of the 1st half as we couldn’t get hold of the ball. Really tough to play him out wide and have Josh Laq as the other player on that wing. Surely one or the other would make more sense rather than two inexperienced players on that flank.
Docherty had a poor game and nothing worked for him. Same for Berry. Taylor, when he came on was poor too. Tyreece has gone massively backwards recently and needs to get his confidence back. Thierry is good at getting forward but his crossing is very poor. Miles makes it far too easy for defenders because he doesn’t use his body enough (I had a good chat with Carl about this at half time). Godden is pretty much useless outside the 18 yard area. Godden has the senior experience so should be helping Miles and “coaching” him in the games but that doesn’t seem to be happening
Last night was a perfect storm really. A Charlton side seemingly unfamiliar with each other and and Orient side who smelled blood. Nathan can rant and rave all he wants on the sidelines but we were so far off it from the first kick last night.
The question is, which ones can form a successful, cohesive team with the determination to fight for one another and our club ....
But foremost in my mind is whether that can be achieved under NJ.
Sadly, it appears to have reached the point where the answer is a loud NO.
The point of no return for me, I'm afraid.
And uppermost in these players' minds must be their future prospects under this enigmatic man who is clearly "more mouth than trousers " so to speak.
Their salvation & futures in the game could be resurrected under another manager, I'm sure.
But it has to begin NOW if our season & their immediate futures have any chance of improvement.
Anyone know Gavin Carter's number ?
What I hate about this is that if they are and have downed tools because they don’t want to play for him, is that it’s at our expense, again. It’s become clear that it happened with Adkins, Garner, Holden, Appleton and likely Jones, but I’m not happy that if we do get a new manager in, they’ll suddenly put a shift in for a few months until the pattern gets repeated.
It’s crazy how it’s played out exactly the same now since Bowyer left, all of the managers having similar(ish) periods before it all collapses.
I absolutely loved and adored so many players over the years, particularly in the curbs era. I felt indifferent to that tranche from 07/08 through to 10/11, but I actually hate so many of the players that have put on the shirt since the 21/22 season. They’ve all played their part and have left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth and continue to contribute to the apathy I have for my club right now.
Jones is approaching the end of the road, and for me that is a shame, because of all the managers we’ve had post Bowyer, he’s the one I felt has the most ability/chance to turn it around. He’s clearly not up to to it, but as the captain of the ship, the crew he’s had around him are equally to blame for its sinking.
Time will tell, but none of this lot scream they’re above the level we’re at, and I do fear it will be the repeated pattern of new manager bounce, but they’ll quickly show their real faces again by the end of the season if NJ goes in the next couple of weeks
I haven't stated or even hinted that I feel the players have "downed tools".
What I do believe is that they are unhappy, confused even by the manner in which they are "managed" - the roles they are told to play in a match /the demands even of a manager who continues to bark orders from the touchline from minute one to minute ninety.
I read one post here from a Lifer who was sitting close to the home dugout tonight. He appeared amazed at the consistent and confusing orders shouted out by NJ ...and commented that some were ambiguous to say the least....Maybe this is just an indication of what the players are "fed" in training as well as once on the pitch.
We shouldn't be surprised if listening to his post match interviews is anything to go by...including some of the nonsense he spouts at times.
TBH, I'd even suggest that some might deliberately switch off in order to preserve their sanity and just try their best.
Downed tools was just my use of words, I didn’t mean it to come across as in disagreement to what you are saying, more elaborating on the fact that if the players are better than this, regardless of how they’re being managed, it’s frustrating to see a similar pattern playing out again.
Regardless of the players, the same thing keeps happening every season with all the managers post Bowyer imo. We get to a point where it seems that they don’t want to play for Garner, Adkins, Holden etc, and whether it’s switching off or downing tools or whatever phrase, we suffer.
We can only know if this lot are better once a new manager comes in, but from what I’ve seen, it looks as though it will be rinse and repeat and we’ll all be saying how good they look now Jones has gone for about 8 matches or so, but could very quickly be back to spitting feathers by the end of the season depending on how quickly a new manager comes in
For me it’s deeper than a new manager and better players, I still feel that given the current set up, we’re structurally f***** and the pattern that has emerged over the last 5 years would seem to back that up.
When Leaburn first came back into the side he was challenging and winning headers, which used to be one of his biggest weaknesses prior to injury. He seems to have reverted back to half heartedly jumping with no desire to actually win the header and I don't think he won a single header last night.
Even Godden was winning a fair few last night but as always with us, was flicking them on to nobody.
Every time we get the ball anywhere on the pitch we never have any options open to pass forward to, which inevitably results in passing it to the CB and lumping it. There's never anyone overlapping on the wing, so when we do get the ball there we don't progress it and never really whip any crosses in. We can't attack down the middle, we can't attack down the wing, it's no wonder we've mustered up 18 goals all season.
I get that Jones' system is to press and win the ball high up and go from there but in the first half Orient gifted us the ball a few times in promising positions, just for us to kill the attack dead quicker than it began so even that doesn't seem an option
Stoke could have done us a favour last night and created a Bowyer situation. I felt a bit inevitable towards the end with Bowyer and him being able to resign and go to Birmingham spared there being any awkwardness with a sacking or too drawn out an exit. Wouldn't be the worst thing if Jones was able to do the same if things got toxic
When Leaburn first came back into the side he was challenging and winning headers, which used to be one of his biggest weaknesses prior to injury. He seems to have reverted back to half heartedly jumping with no desire to actually win the header and I don't think he won a single header last night.
Even Godden was winning a fair few last night but as always with us, was flicking them on to nobody.
Every time we get the ball anywhere on the pitch we never have any options open to pass forward to, which inevitably results in passing it to the CB and lumping it. There's never anyone overlapping on the wing, so when we do get the ball there we don't progress it and never really whip any crosses in. We can't attack down the middle, we can't attack down the wing, it's no wonder we've mustered up 18 goals all season.
I get that Jones' system is to press and win the ball high up and go from there but in the first half Orient gifted us the ball a few times in promising positions, just for us to kill the attack dead quicker than it began so even that doesn't seem an option
Leaburn won 10 aerial duels out of 21 and Godden won 7 of 9 according to sofascore. That is an abysmal % by Leaburn
Once things start snowballing as our club it seems hard to stop. The majority of the fans seem to of made up their mind now and looking at some of these players they have too regardless of what they say in interviews. It's a shame, I really thought we'd landed a good one with Jones but his football is outdated (weirdly) he seems void of tactical nouse within games (how many times had he made a change in game that's won us a game) and he comes across ridiculously arrogant for someone that isn't performing as he should
I know people say we need a creative force, but (and I do hate think this analogy is overused but…), you could throw a KBD into our team and I don’t think it would change our style under Jones.
He seems so focused on certain stats (he used to bang on about similar topics in his Southampton press conferences). And now it’s all about clean sheets. We couldn’t find KBD and if we did, there wouldn’t be the movement for him to create anything anyway.
Pretty much every game we play we look like a team trying to scrap our way out of relegation. Jokes talked about us being a front footed pressing team, but teams seem easily able to pass it around us - and then can simple press us into just punting it long.
We are not a counter attacking team as we can’t counter attack. We are not a turn over team as we just go backwards when we win a turnover most of the time - and we ain’t even a good long ball team as all our long balls are just big floating hoofs where we want to win the seconds but never can because our midfield are to busy sitting back to win them.
Wasn’t Taylor going to be our saviour? Him and Dixon…
I appreciate that it was, yet another, dismal performance but that’s a lazy comment. Taylor has been the only source of creativity since Jones was forced to finally bring him into the team. And, as @Swisdom mentioned a little earlier, throwing Dixon in with young Josh behind him was foolhardy at best. Both could have done with some experience in front/behind them.
If it hadn’t been for Ash last night, that game would have been long gone before those two late goals.If Potts can stay fit - and that would seemingly need a miracle - then he is a definite upgrade on Gillesphey. That’s the sum of the small positives though. This was a performance that screamed “enough” and I honestly can’t see how Jones survives and he certainly can’t be trusted with January funds - and neither can Scott.
Orient seem to be a decent, passing side, and were they near the top of the table last night's result would be a little more palatable. But they're not. The whole situation is very worrying, as the long term direction of the club appears to be downwards. Without drastic action, and soon, it's hard to know what can be done about it. Certainly a change in the management structure would be a start, as the recruitment has been a joke for years. And Nathan doesn't seem to have what it takes to get this squad of players (a few of which are 'his' players) performing, sadly. I'm dreading Saturday now.
When Leaburn first came back into the side he was challenging and winning headers, which used to be one of his biggest weaknesses prior to injury. He seems to have reverted back to half heartedly jumping with no desire to actually win the header and I don't think he won a single header last night.
Even Godden was winning a fair few last night but as always with us, was flicking them on to nobody.
Every time we get the ball anywhere on the pitch we never have any options open to pass forward to, which inevitably results in passing it to the CB and lumping it. There's never anyone overlapping on the wing, so when we do get the ball there we don't progress it and never really whip any crosses in. We can't attack down the middle, we can't attack down the wing, it's no wonder we've mustered up 18 goals all season.
I get that Jones' system is to press and win the ball high up and go from there but in the first half Orient gifted us the ball a few times in promising positions, just for us to kill the attack dead quicker than it began so even that doesn't seem an option
Leaburn won 10 aerial duels out of 21 and Godden won 7 of 9 according to sofascore. That is an abysmal % by Leaburn
There is definitely more going on with Leaburn than meets the eye.
He looks unfit , overweight and uninterested and if he thinks he's going to get that big move he craves then he's in for a shock because the way he's going at the moment , nobody in their right mind will touch him with a barge pole .
When Leaburn first came back into the side he was challenging and winning headers, which used to be one of his biggest weaknesses prior to injury. He seems to have reverted back to half heartedly jumping with no desire to actually win the header and I don't think he won a single header last night.
Even Godden was winning a fair few last night but as always with us, was flicking them on to nobody.
Every time we get the ball anywhere on the pitch we never have any options open to pass forward to, which inevitably results in passing it to the CB and lumping it. There's never anyone overlapping on the wing, so when we do get the ball there we don't progress it and never really whip any crosses in. We can't attack down the middle, we can't attack down the wing, it's no wonder we've mustered up 18 goals all season.
I get that Jones' system is to press and win the ball high up and go from there but in the first half Orient gifted us the ball a few times in promising positions, just for us to kill the attack dead quicker than it began so even that doesn't seem an option
Leaburn won 10 aerial duels out of 21 and Godden won 7 of 9 according to sofascore. That is an abysmal % by Leaburn
I have mentioned this before but without even checking the stats you will find that our most consistent players have been in the back four and up until Jones and Ramsay's injuries that was pretty much the pattern. Jones return on Saturday produced a better performance from Mitchell and a MOM in most quarters for Gillesphey. If you look elsewhere you will see that only Coventry is getting consistent high marks and is probably the only fixture in the midfield. Get to the forward line and bearing in mind we have at least six players to choose from, not including Tyreece Campbell who we were told was a forward, when we all believed he was a winger, and you find that none of the six have displayed great form or consistency, the nearest one to that would be Godden and I wouldn't say he looks a threat, Ahadme, Leaburn, Kanu have all been, at the very best inconsistent, it doesn't matter if we play two up or three, we don't create chances from open play and that is down to the tactics of defence first employed by Nathan Jones. Leaburn's body language looks to me like it's borne out of frustration and if some people are right then Godden is starting to go the same way. Jones is killing our forwards with this style of play and those forwards know it.
Orient should have that game done and dusted long before they got their first goal last night. Unbelievable amount of chances they missed and bar the Godden shot that hit the post and the effort from Leaburn in the second we hardly threatened
The squad is not good enough at this level and those brought in last night (Bar Potts and Young Josh) can’t have any complaints if they are not starting this Saturday
Two out of form sides head into the Valley this weekend now. Jones in my opinion has 2 games left
No matter who we play the Manager sets us up like we are the underdog, front footed my arse ! he brought Dixon into the starting line up ( who I like most dont doubt that he isnt ready but wanted to see him given the chance ) and then had him playing on the right in his own half most of the time, I cant remember one time when he pushed high up the pitch where his pace and trickery might have been utilised.
Enough is enough we are going nowhere with this guy, he even has the cheek to blame the squad he inherited ? I would say that the biggest under performers this season have been his signings, anyone that can tell me how the fuck Doc, Berry and AC got promoted to the Premership would be really appreciated as all 3 have looked like NL players all season
It will if we keep thinking the reflex jerk action of sacking the manager is a good idea. It has repeatedly proven a bad idea. When we sacked Appleton I disagreed with it and I disagree with it now. The problem can’t be the manager. It partially comes down to moden days’ players’ attitudes. They think that they can play like shit because the manager will be gone soon anyway. Sometimes they play like shit to intentionally get him sacked relying on this ’lost the dressing room’ bollocks. It’s the players you should be angry with not the manager. I’d like them to realise that the manager is staying put and they have to get in with it, do their best whether they like him or not, or else it is THEY who will be on the scrapheap, stupid useless bunch of pussies. Remember that: 99.9% wanted Appleton sacked and that Jones proved he could get decent results at the start of his contract. You were behind him then so stick by him. If the football is that shit then just don’t go. He probably pissed off the players somewhere after the Reading game but come on!...get over it!......man up you pussies (the players).
It will if we keep thinking the reflex jerk action of sacking the manager is a good idea. It has repeatedly proven a bad idea. When we sacked Appleton I disagreed with it and I disagree with it now. The problem can’t be the manager. It partially comes down to moden days’ players’ attitudes. They think that they can play like shit because the manager will be gone soon anyway. Sometimes they play like shit to intentionally get him sacked relying on this ’lost the dressing room’ bollocks. It’s the players you should be angry with not the manager. I’d like them to realise that the manager is staying put and they have to get in with it, do their best whether they like him or not, or else it is THEY who will be on the scrapheap, stupid useless bunch of pussies. Remember that: 99.9% wanted Appleton sacked and that Jones proved he could get decent results at the start of his contract. You were behind him then so stick by him. If the football is that shit then just don’t go. He probably pissed off the players somewhere after the Reading game but come on!...get over it!......man up you pussies (the players).
Who decides the players to buy to balance the squad?
Who picks the starting 11 and when and who to use as subs?
Who determines the formation?
Who decides the position each player will take?
Who decides on a change of tactics during a game when it isn't working?
Comments
If there are affordable termination clauses for Jones, Ahadme, Docherty and Berry then I would favour termination rather than years more of this agony.
But we don't, do we? When has any manager failed so utterly and then seen out his long remaining contract?
I was asleep during the whole game yesterday and woke up to seeing those stats, and seems like I had a touch. The performance sounds unbelievably bad.
No disrespect to Leyton Orient, but conceding that many chances to them is a stackable offence. There's no way their squad is that much better than ours, surely.
Get him gone before Mansfield, they're in dreadful form and an interim could probably get a result against them anyway. Give us more time to get someone in.
Let alone continuing to pay the wages of the dud players who we have brought in.
Regardless of the players, the same thing keeps happening every season with all the managers post Bowyer imo. We get to a point where it seems that they don’t want to play for Garner, Adkins, Holden etc, and whether it’s switching off or downing tools or whatever phrase, we suffer.
For me it’s deeper than a new manager and better players, I still feel that given the current set up, we’re structurally f***** and the pattern that has emerged over the last 5 years would seem to back that up.
Even Godden was winning a fair few last night but as always with us, was flicking them on to nobody.
Every time we get the ball anywhere on the pitch we never have any options open to pass forward to, which inevitably results in passing it to the CB and lumping it. There's never anyone overlapping on the wing, so when we do get the ball there we don't progress it and never really whip any crosses in. We can't attack down the middle, we can't attack down the wing, it's no wonder we've mustered up 18 goals all season.
I get that Jones' system is to press and win the ball high up and go from there but in the first half Orient gifted us the ball a few times in promising positions, just for us to kill the attack dead quicker than it began so even that doesn't seem an option
He seems so focused on certain stats (he used to bang on about similar topics in his Southampton press conferences). And now it’s all about clean sheets. We couldn’t find KBD and if we did, there wouldn’t be the movement for him to create anything anyway.
Pretty much every game we play we look like a team trying to scrap our way out of relegation. Jokes talked about us being a front footed pressing team, but teams seem easily able to pass it around us - and then can simple press us into just punting it long.
The whole situation is very worrying, as the long term direction of the club appears to be downwards. Without drastic action, and soon, it's hard to know what can be done about it. Certainly a change in the management structure would be a start, as the recruitment has been a joke for years.
And Nathan doesn't seem to have what it takes to get this squad of players (a few of which are 'his' players) performing, sadly.
I'm dreading Saturday now.
He looks unfit , overweight and uninterested and if he thinks he's going to get that big move he craves then he's in for a shock because the way he's going at the moment , nobody in their right mind will touch him with a barge pole .
The squad is not good enough at this level and those brought in last night (Bar Potts and Young Josh) can’t have any complaints if they are not starting this Saturday
Two out of form sides head into the Valley this weekend now. Jones in my opinion has 2 games left
https://x.com/cafcofficial/status/1866555290000240903?s=46&t=cFzydtFtVwUatHhtc7bRkA
Enough is enough we are going nowhere with this guy, he even has the cheek to blame the squad he inherited ? I would say that the biggest under performers this season have been his signings, anyone that can tell me how the fuck Doc, Berry and AC got promoted to the Premership would be really appreciated as all 3 have looked like NL players all season
When we sacked Appleton I disagreed with it and I disagree with it now. The problem can’t be the manager.
It partially comes down to moden days’ players’ attitudes. They think that they can play like shit because the manager will be gone soon anyway. Sometimes they play like shit to intentionally get him sacked relying on this ’lost the dressing room’ bollocks.
It’s the players you should be angry with not the manager. I’d like them to realise that the manager is staying put and they have to get in with it, do their best whether they like him or not, or else it is THEY who will be on the scrapheap, stupid useless bunch of pussies.
Remember that:
99.9% wanted Appleton sacked and that
Jones proved he could get decent results at the start of his contract. You were behind him then so stick by him. If the football is that shit then just don’t go. He probably pissed off the players somewhere after the Reading game but come on!...get over it!......man up you pussies (the players).