Carson Incident
Comments
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fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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He should have asked for his face to displayed on the big screen for the half time break tonight. the ridicule/embarrassment may have taken the decision away from the club..Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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What did you have in mind @LargeAddick East Stand 'F' block only 'A' block is full up :-)LargeAddick said:
fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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The DenRedChaser said:
What did you have in mind @LargeAddick East Stand 'F' block only 'A' block is full up :-)LargeAddick said:
fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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Carson got a good round of applause when he came out for 2nd half which he acknowledged then a turd gobs in his face!!! the guy should be outed. Surely its a form of assault ?2
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He certainly doesnt neede a second
He doesnt deserve another chance.LargeAddick said:
fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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How about the Barry Kitchener Stand?RedChaser said:
What did you have in mind @LargeAddick East Stand 'F' block only 'A' block is full up :-)LargeAddick said:
fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
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In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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Yes, absolutely. My opinion is that, at football matches, "rude" words are ok. But racial slurs aren't. Anywhere.Greenie said:
In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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Well I find that offensive.Chizz said:
Yes, absolutely. My opinion is that, at football matches, "rude" words are ok. But racial slurs aren't. Anywhere.Greenie said:
In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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Never mind!Greenie said:
Well I find that offensive.Chizz said:
Yes, absolutely. My opinion is that, at football matches, "rude" words are ok. But racial slurs aren't. Anywhere.Greenie said:
In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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Ironic.Chizz said:
Never mind!Greenie said:
Well I find that offensive.Chizz said:
Yes, absolutely. My opinion is that, at football matches, "rude" words are ok. But racial slurs aren't. Anywhere.Greenie said:
In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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Not during the 2nd half;-)RedChaser said:
What did you have in mind @LargeAddick East Stand 'F' block only 'A' block is full up :-)LargeAddick said:
fair play BUT the Club still need to trace the idiot, have a word and one more indiscretion means a ban. I'd even consider relocating him out of harms way.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
Class from Carson, but I have to agree what is stopping this person doing it again this evening or later on in the season.
Still ban him.2 -
No, not ironic. Totally consistent. I don't care if people get offended by "rude words" at football matches. But racial slurs and ethnic epithets are totally unacceptable.Greenie said:
Ironic.Chizz said:
Never mind!Greenie said:
Well I find that offensive.Chizz said:
Yes, absolutely. My opinion is that, at football matches, "rude" words are ok. But racial slurs aren't. Anywhere.Greenie said:
In your opinion.Chizz said:The point is this, some words are rude, some offensive and some are racial slurs. Rude words are ok (in fact, at football grounds I think there should be plenty of ruse words!); offensive words are ok (what's wrong with being merely offended?); but racial slurs are far from ok.
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No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!3
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Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
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Racial slurs are totally unacceptable, IMO pikey as not a racial slur unless you are looking for it to be one. When I hear the term pikey I don't think of Gypsies, I think of someone who is a scummer or a chav etc.Chizz said:
Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
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I like your "respect for others" outlook. That is coolChizz said:
"Pikey" is racial epithet. "Trailer trash" and "chav" are merely pejorative descriptions. Very, very big difference.Curb_It said:What is the difference between pikey, trailer trash and chav ?
I think it's more complicated than your example. Words are words not stick and stones. I raise the question of the right to use language in context.
I know the words from Sidcup and the various Crays. Ive never seen as real Romany (is that PC?) person except in films, having never lived in the countryside.
To me it means generally rough/uncivilized behaviour and was exactly appropriate referring to spitting.
There is no racial connotation whatsoever. I bet thats true for a lot of people from South East London and Kent.
(with apologies to any one from Star Lane that I have now also offended)1 -
Respect him for taking that stance but hope he gets ignored and we ban the guy anyway.Airman Brown said:Scott Carson, who was understandably very upset, nevertheless asked for the culprit NOT to be banned. Generous gesture and respect to him for that.
No place for it in football.4 -
Sorry to butt in on your discussion on what is, or isn't acceptable, to call people but I should be grateful for your views on the attached article in today's Standard.Chizz said:
Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/grand-canyon-of-rubbish-dumped-by-travellers-on-popular-croydon-playing-field-9677561.html0 - Sponsored links:
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Utterly disgusting. There's no need to leave a mess like that. Shameful.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Sorry to butt in on your discussion on what is, or isn't acceptable, to call people but I should be grateful for your views on the attached article in today's Standard.Chizz said:
Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/grand-canyon-of-rubbish-dumped-by-travellers-on-popular-croydon-playing-field-9677561.html
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OK, then we're not a million miles apart. If you think racial slurs are totally unacceptable, so do I. Maybe we just differ on whether "pikey" is one. I think it is; but I probably can't convince you.Greenie said:
Racial slurs are totally unacceptable, IMO pikey as not a racial slur unless you are looking for it to be one. When I hear the term pikey I don't think of Gypsies, I think of someone who is a scummer or a chav etc.Chizz said:
Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
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Cos he's a pikeyChizz said:
OK, then we're not a million miles apart. If you think racial slurs are totally unacceptable, so do I. Maybe we just differ on whether "pikey" is one. I think it is; but I probably can't convince you.Greenie said:
Racial slurs are totally unacceptable, IMO pikey as not a racial slur unless you are looking for it to be one. When I hear the term pikey I don't think of Gypsies, I think of someone who is a scummer or a chav etc.Chizz said:
Not really sure I fully understand the point you're trying to make. But, for the sake of clarity, my point is this: using racial slurs (like calling someone a pikey) is never - or at least should never be - acceptable. Would you agree with that?Greenie said:No the irony is that what offends you didn't offend another poster who you then took to task, and when I said what you wrote offend me, you said never mind!
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According to Collins dictionary
noun
(British, slang, derogatory)
1.a gypsy or vagrant
2.a member of the underclass
Thanks Col(l)ins5 -
Chizz why is it not acceptable to use the term 'Pikey' which is not deemed to be a racist slur by Collins dictionary.
Instead just derogatory slang.
I'd put it on par with offensive language. I find offensive language... Well offensive in day to day life.
I find it unacceptable at football and especially unacceptable anywhere there are kids.
I find swearing to be more unacceptable than a term that even the dictionary holds on par with chav.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7446274.stm1 -
As time evolves and people are educated further opinions change on words that are acceptable. I can think of plenty my parents and grandparents used and were probably unaware they were offensive. In 10 years time we will probably learn about other words/terms that are unacceptable and probably find it hard to understand why, as in our own minds it's ok.
I've thought about the word in question before as a bad word to use and wouldn't use it freely towards strangers (More to describe people as scummy rather than anything else) but this debate has made me reconsider using it at all.
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There are other words that Collins also does not call out as being racist. I am not going to list them here, because they are.Dazzler21 said:Chizz why is it not acceptable to use the term 'Pikey' which is not deemed to be a racist slur by Collins dictionary.
Instead just derogatory slang.
I'd put it on par with offensive language. I find offensive language... Well offensive in day to day life.
I find it unacceptable at football and especially unacceptable anywhere there are kids.
I find swearing to be more unacceptable than a term that even the dictionary holds on par with chav.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7446274.stm
Pikey is a racial epithet, used (mostly) in a pejorative sense. Think of the "n" word. No-one uses that now without knowing that it's a racially-charged slur. The same should be true of the word "pikey". (Incidentally, Collins does not call even the n-word out as being "racist").
Lee Coleman a 23-year old from Sussex was convicted of racially aggravated harassment for using the word in 2007. Jack Dromey, a Labour MP was warned about using it in a tweet, later admitting it was an "incident that may constitute incitement to racial hatred". Susanne Elliot, a 65-year old from Scotland was fined £300 for racially aggravated offence after using the word on Facebook. There are many other examples.
The UK's anti-racism education charity, "Show Racism The Red Card" describes the word as "extremely racist and offensive towards anybody from any of the Traveller groups as [it has] a history of being used to hurt and offend people. [The word] should never be used even if it is towards someone who is not a Gypsy or Traveller".
There are four parts of a person's identity that, if targeted, would be classed as racism. They are (1) Skin colour, (2) Religion, (3) Culture, (4) Nationality.
I've challenged the use of racist language at The Valley (where the complaint was taken very seriously by the Club, I am happy to say) and will do so on here, where I see it. Racism is an abhorrent cancer on our society; it creeps up on you, first as your friend, then as your calling card.
I'm proud of what my club has done to eradicate racism. I will always call it out when I see it.5 -
Pikey? Racist? Do me a favour.
It's a life choice isn't it?4 -
I think you're being a bit trigger happy with the flags there Chizz. Carly's making the same point others have made ie. to not see 'pikey' relative to 'race', rightly or wrongly, but I don't think that's abuse. I don't use the term myself, but I know one thing, I find the behaviour of the travellers in my area to be a far bigger problem than the words used to describe them.0
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I think you're being a bit trigger happy with the flags there Chizz. Carly's making the same point others have made ie. to not see 'pikey' relative to 'race', rightly or wrongly, but I don't think that's abuse. I don't use the term myself, but I know one thing, I find the behaviour of the travellers in my area to be a far bigger problem than the words used to describe them.2
