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Has Bowyer lost it?
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And this is my point. When he took on another manager's mess it was all positivity. We are good enough etc... When it is his own mess, it is defensive negativity. We are over achieving etc... We know it is the same person, but the behaviours are chalk and cheese.Braziliance said:Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long3 -
I just don't see TS as a knee-jerk type owner who would sack someone after 5 or 6 'meh' results like RD would. Albeit RD would have another manager from his network lined up to take over at any point.MuttleyCAFC said:I think that is why the target is the play offs. It will show things have been stabilised whether we win them or not. That could arguably be a platform for next season. If we carry on like we are there has to be doubts about that and as you say, giving the manager until October or later is a massive risk. if you are saying that promotion by the end of next season is essential, is it a risk Sandgaard would wish to take?
Ive cited October based on a pattern of results like WLDWLDWLD or something, so Lee wins a few games to suggest he could put a run together to TS. If he has a really really bad start though, more along the lines of the last couple of months we've just experienced he could be gone earlier.
Either way, I don't think LB will go this season, unless our league position totally nosedives (ie relegation) as Ive said already1 -
I do wonder how many that want Bowyer gone would be happy to keep the majority of this squad together? The fact that we need a big rebuild says it's not a promotion winning squad.Braziliance said:Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long4 -
I think it is a good squad which ought to be play offs at least. I hate the thought of trying to replace Aneke next season. Yes, it can be built on here and there. I'd like a new keeper, I think Pearce needs replacing but we don't need to make wholesale changes.0
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Let’s be honest it’s not “5 or 6 meh results” at this point. It’s a downward trend in results since about December 2019 punctuated by a couple of relatively brief decent runs.CAFCTrev said:
I just don't see TS as a knee-jerk type owner who would sack someone after 5 or 6 'meh' results like RD would. Albeit RD would have another manager from his network lined up to take over at any point.MuttleyCAFC said:I think that is why the target is the play offs. It will show things have been stabilised whether we win them or not. That could arguably be a platform for next season. If we carry on like we are there has to be doubts about that and as you say, giving the manager until October or later is a massive risk. if you are saying that promotion by the end of next season is essential, is it a risk Sandgaard would wish to take?
Ive cited October based on a pattern of results like WLDWLDWLD or something, so Lee wins a few games to suggest he could put a run together to TS. If he has a really really bad start though, more along the lines of the last couple of months we've just experienced he could be gone earlier.
Either way, I don't think LB will go this season, unless our league position totally nosedives (ie relegation) as Ive said already
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Totally disagree. IMO we need a new starting GK, CB + LB. I'd even go as far as saying another RB as gunter and matthews have hardly been inspiring this season.MuttleyCAFC said:I think it is a good squad which ought to be play offs at least. I hate the thought of trying to replace Aneke next season. Yes, it can be built on here and there. I'd like a new keeper, I think Pearce needs replacing but we don't need to make wholesale changes.
Midfield, I would keep JFC, Morgan, Shinne + DJ. We should replace Watson, Pratley and add more depth.
Up top, you cannot rely on a player that has rarely completed 90 mins this season.1 -
The shit that comes out of his mouth makes me cringe. We’ve had every excuse under the sun this season, yesterday’s was blaming the opposition manager. And now we are ‘over achieving’. Doesn’t fill me with much confidence let alone what his players must think.18
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This hasn't been 5 or 6 meh results this has been 5 or 6 months of meh resultsCAFCTrev said:
I just don't see TS as a knee-jerk type owner who would sack someone after 5 or 6 'meh' results like RD would. Albeit RD would have another manager from his network lined up to take over at any point.MuttleyCAFC said:I think that is why the target is the play offs. It will show things have been stabilised whether we win them or not. That could arguably be a platform for next season. If we carry on like we are there has to be doubts about that and as you say, giving the manager until October or later is a massive risk. if you are saying that promotion by the end of next season is essential, is it a risk Sandgaard would wish to take?
Ive cited October based on a pattern of results like WLDWLDWLD or something, so Lee wins a few games to suggest he could put a run together to TS. If he has a really really bad start though, more along the lines of the last couple of months we've just experienced he could be gone earlier.
Either way, I don't think LB will go this season, unless our league position totally nosedives (ie relegation) as Ive said already2 -
As it stands at the moment we only have about 8 first team players under contract for next season. We need another massive rebuild regardless of what happens now or who the manager is.Scoham said:
I do wonder how many that want Bowyer gone would be happy to keep the majority of this squad together? The fact that we need a big rebuild says it's not a promotion winning squad.Braziliance said:Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long
I think one important thing that's being over looked is how much of the October bravado was for our benifit and how much of it was for Thomas's.“It’s a position we needed to strengthen, so I’m over the moon with Omar’s signing. He’s good at everything, his all-around game as a striker is really good and we’ll improve him, which we do with all our players. He will be a very good striker in this division.
“I’ve said it before, we have to bring the right people in and Omar fits that. He’s another piece of the puzzle"
If what he actually said behind closed doors was more like
"He isn't great but there isn't anything else out there at the moment we need someone PDQ. Even if I use him as a warm up act for Chuks it's better than nothing"
Of the 6 permanently signed players pre January one has gone on loan to league 2, one has been given a free to a promotion rival, one is now 6th choice, one has been injured or suspended for almost the whole time he has been here and another is the reserve right back.
I am not sure if its a coincidence that our two January buys were one first recommended by Thomas and a pretty much risk free punt on a young, proven league 1 player.
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If any previous manager said that top 6 was a 'minimum', and then acted as if journos had made up that goal a fortnight later, they'd be getting pelters on here.11
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Can't wrap my head around those comments from him. Totally smacks of desperation. I wish the journo's would have called him and out and told him that he said it just 2 weeks earlier.Croydon said:If any previous manager said that top 6 was a 'minimum', and then acted as if journos had made up that goal a fortnight later, they'd be getting pelters on here.10 -
Agree it was embarrassing and although I want him to stay for now, it can't be good for players to hear him flip-flopping on whether he thinks they're good enough.Croydon said:If any previous manager said that top 6 was a 'minimum', and then acted as if journos had made up that goal a fortnight later, they'd be getting pelters on here.2 -
As I said a month ago week by week more fans move away from blind faith to finally realise Bowyer is not going to turn us around. He should have gone in December.6
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It was the six weeks from Gillingham away until the Rochdale home game that were the worst. In performances, results, bus throwing, tactics, subs. It was worse than anything under Gobbinson, Slade or Parkinson at this level. It was actually very much like the last days of Pardew.se9addick said:
Let’s be honest it’s not “5 or 6 meh results” at this point. It’s a downward trend in results since about December 2019 punctuated by a couple of relatively brief decent runs.CAFCTrev said:
I just don't see TS as a knee-jerk type owner who would sack someone after 5 or 6 'meh' results like RD would. Albeit RD would have another manager from his network lined up to take over at any point.MuttleyCAFC said:I think that is why the target is the play offs. It will show things have been stabilised whether we win them or not. That could arguably be a platform for next season. If we carry on like we are there has to be doubts about that and as you say, giving the manager until October or later is a massive risk. if you are saying that promotion by the end of next season is essential, is it a risk Sandgaard would wish to take?
Ive cited October based on a pattern of results like WLDWLDWLD or something, so Lee wins a few games to suggest he could put a run together to TS. If he has a really really bad start though, more along the lines of the last couple of months we've just experienced he could be gone earlier.
Either way, I don't think LB will go this season, unless our league position totally nosedives (ie relegation) as Ive said already2 -
I think the Wimbledon (12th December) game saved his job, in the eyes of many.bolloxbolder said:As I said a month ago week by week more fans move away from blind faith to finally realise Bowyer is not going to turn us around. He should have gone in December.
Then exactly a month later the same thing happened again.1 -
Should’ve two footed him and not bothered with the yellow 😈.Gravesend_Addick said:I had a stream with no commentary too on my firestick.
I'm sure at 1 point I heard Bowyer shout to Evans 'sit down and shut the fuck up 😀0 -
Saved by the two players who he shipped off in January, ironically.Cafc43v3r said:
I think the Wimbledon (12th December) game saved his job, in the eyes of many.bolloxbolder said:As I said a month ago week by week more fans move away from blind faith to finally realise Bowyer is not going to turn us around. He should have gone in December.
Then exactly a month later the same thing happened again.1 -
Scoham said:Majority still supporting Bowyer according to this poll.
They clearly didn’t get the response they expected/hoped for since this new poll is now out5 -
Classic case of if you don’t get the right answer, change the question 😏.9
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Another way of looking at isCallumcafc said:Scoham said:Majority still supporting Bowyer according to this poll.
They clearly didn’t get the response they expected/hoped for since this new poll is now out
"If we had lost the shoot out against Doncaster, and this was the next season, would you still want Bowyer to stay?"2 - Sponsored links:
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Would you be happy with a new manager and all those contracts renewed (including loans, no matter how unrealistic that seems) to keep this squad together?Cafc43v3r said:
As it stands at the moment we only have about 8 first team players under contract for next season. We need another massive rebuild regardless of what happens now or who the manager is.Scoham said:
I do wonder how many that want Bowyer gone would be happy to keep the majority of this squad together? The fact that we need a big rebuild says it's not a promotion winning squad.Braziliance said:Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long
I think one important thing that's being over looked is how much of the October bravado was for our benifit and how much of it was for Thomas's.“It’s a position we needed to strengthen, so I’m over the moon with Omar’s signing. He’s good at everything, his all-around game as a striker is really good and we’ll improve him, which we do with all our players. He will be a very good striker in this division.
“I’ve said it before, we have to bring the right people in and Omar fits that. He’s another piece of the puzzle"
If what he actually said behind closed doors was more like
"He isn't great but there isn't anything else out there at the moment we need someone PDQ. Even if I use him as a warm up act for Chuks it's better than nothing"
Of the 6 permanently signed players pre January one has gone on loan to league 2, one has been given a free to a promotion rival, one is now 6th choice, one has been injured or suspended for almost the whole time he has been here and another is the reserve right back.
I am not sure if its a coincidence that our two January buys were one first recommended by Thomas and a pretty much risk free punt on a young, proven league 1 player.
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I think Bowyer will start next season. He’ll be backed in a rebuild we haven’t seen the like since Chris Powell’s promotion season. Thomas will have to do that if he wants promotion. That will be the minimum requirement. If we’re not right up and at it by November then I think Lee will be gone but I’m quite happy for that time and confidence to be given. This season was dead three weeks ago and the funeral was yesterday.5
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Yes and no. The quality of the squad is fine IMO although the balance is not. Do you need the 7th center mid more than a 5th center half or 3rd wide player?Scoham said:
Would you be happy with a new manager and all those contracts renewed (including loans, no matter how unrealistic that seems) to keep this squad together?Cafc43v3r said:
As it stands at the moment we only have about 8 first team players under contract for next season. We need another massive rebuild regardless of what happens now or who the manager is.Scoham said:
I do wonder how many that want Bowyer gone would be happy to keep the majority of this squad together? The fact that we need a big rebuild says it's not a promotion winning squad.Braziliance said:Big Bowyer fan obviously but this those are the kind of comments that make me think 'cmon Lee mate'. Overachieving by being outside the top6 in league 1? That's such a losers mentality for someone who only signs 'winners' as he has said multiple times. I understand his argument in look at Wigan, but then in fairness look at Hull. Wigan were stripped down far more then we were. I also understand he is saying it as a plea to the owner to keep his job but even that I don't like. We as fans aren't bloody stupid so comments like that make out that we are to him imo.
Feeling deflated as per, the players were talking like we could go on a run and we fell at the second hurdle as per.
My finals thoughts are I don't see Bowyer staying, he is coming across desperate and that shows to me the relationship with Thomas is definitely more of the just business kind. I also will still defend Lee and say if we are still in this league next season, excluding loans I would only want JFC, DJ, Aneke, Albie & Schwartz to stay. Rest can go for all I care. Worst defense I've seen at Charlton in God knows how long
I think one important thing that's being over looked is how much of the October bravado was for our benifit and how much of it was for Thomas's.“It’s a position we needed to strengthen, so I’m over the moon with Omar’s signing. He’s good at everything, his all-around game as a striker is really good and we’ll improve him, which we do with all our players. He will be a very good striker in this division.
“I’ve said it before, we have to bring the right people in and Omar fits that. He’s another piece of the puzzle"
If what he actually said behind closed doors was more like
"He isn't great but there isn't anything else out there at the moment we need someone PDQ. Even if I use him as a warm up act for Chuks it's better than nothing"
Of the 6 permanently signed players pre January one has gone on loan to league 2, one has been given a free to a promotion rival, one is now 6th choice, one has been injured or suspended for almost the whole time he has been here and another is the reserve right back.
I am not sure if its a coincidence that our two January buys were one first recommended by Thomas and a pretty much risk free punt on a young, proven league 1 player.
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Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as gutless as us during the run in.15
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Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.13 -
Perhaps given whats gone on with the ownership shenanigans and with the injuries which have been significant during Bowyers tenure, he’s just not “a lucky” manager.0
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We won 5 games after boxing day and only won 6 after the 19th of October.Scoham said:
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
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Scoham said:
Corrected for you, was always going to be very difficult to stay up when Bonne was our only player left who scored more than 3 goals last season. Plenty of managers would have got relegated long before the last game with the limited resources and other issues Bowyer had to deal with.MrOneLung said:Let’s not forget we should have stayed up last season. No other team was as goalless as us during the run in.
I mean it was Barnsley and Luton who finished ahead of us on the final day, hardly like they were spending millions themselves. Then the same again with Wigan who only finished behind us because of a points deduction.
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AFKABartram said:(Had put this on the wrong thread)I still think ‘life’ is playing a massive part in accentuating the unrest.
We’re all f***ed off having to endure with these living life limitations and the overall depressive backdrop. We’ve all got a lot less to focus on, the fortunes of our football team are being magnified, and our unhappiness with it all is, by default, being escalated. It was additionally escalated because we had a new owner with what we think is a few quid. Yet, in reality, due to the salary cap that has had no impact.Sandgaard however has been given a massive lesson in just how fickle football fans can be. 2-3 months ago he was constantly bombarded with people ensuring he recognised Bowyer was a Mr Charlton legend that needed protection and preservation. A disappointing two months has been all that’s needed to see that almost completely unwound
Accurate.
I hope everyone reads this takes it in and can think in an objective and realistic way.
Bowyer is likely to be overwhelmed and is finding things to be a bizarre internal challenge. They are struggling and messing it up a bit.
Allow everyone at the valley to re-charge and have some time.
I do understand the need for high expectations and we've got good players but it's simply just an awful sh*t season anyway.
It is a diarrhea mosh pit. For a lot of reasons.
Bowyer has lost it a bit but he can and will get it back. The players also know he's had it rough and they should all stick together and be on the same side.
I doubt that will happen but it needs to.
It will only happen if the fans reach out and make it clear that we know how sh*t things have been. We know we won't be at our best, at present...due to a lot of off field problems and distractions.
Allow the pressure to minimise for this season.
If necessary, get on their backs next season.
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I was wondering if changing in the lounges was one factor.Rock Spectacle said:Does getting changed in a lounge make a difference? Whatever it may be, Bow seems a lot more nervy and irrational in SE7 than out of it.
And as has been mentioned previously, genuinely don't know the answer but the thought is there - how was the January window managed - and how much input?
Why don't we have the changing room?
It can't hurt can it?3
This discussion has been closed.
