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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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He has got rid of our 2 most creative players. There is nobody going to take people on (maybe Millar) or score with a 20 yard bullet. There is not one player in that team who I am excited to see play. Maybe DJ but he has been a non-starter.0
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There's a world of difference between being offered the Charlton job and the Wimbledon one.Maccn05 said:two things on this thread bother me:
1. Sir Chris coming back - it’s not going to happen he just turned down an interview at AFC Wimbledon and has said he’s happy, yes we have a place in his heart but so do Spurs, I’m pretty sure they are his club. Let’s confine this one along with the bring back Curbs to the bad idea / not going to happen box.
2. These rumours about Ged Roddy concern me a man sacked at Reading for ‘communication issues’ Isn’t his role to help the academy and the manager? not be stirring up trouble, surely he should work how Bows wants not the other way round - something about this man doesn’t sit right with me
For what it’s worth I’m a staunch fan of Bows and stability but as every game passes it becoming harder and harder to see a positive end and these kind of rumours normally start coming out just before the axe swings!
Sad times.
You really don't have to say that we are, and probably always be, on a totally different level to Wimbledon. Throw in we now have an owner who can inject some serious money into the club and any comparisons between us are very one-sided.
I can't believe for a moment SCP wouldn't give any job offer from us very serious consideration although I accept he may want to take the easy option for the moment and stay as a youth team coach. That said, I bet there is a bit of him who desperately wants to be the main man again.
And he has got unfinished business here.4 -
The point is do we believe a player was telling the truth in claiming Bowyer does not discuss tactics with the team.MuttleyCAFC said:Not sure what the point is other than a pedantic one. Tactics are either an issue or not, whether they are discussed or not. Or whether they are right or not. Sometimes the tactics can be right, but they are not sold to the players well enough. If you do badly, the tactics you don't employ, will generally be the right ones.
There is a communication and management element to this. But it is true, it is a lot harder to manage when things are going wrong. A different skillset is required, and many managers don't have them sadly.It is being used to discredit the manager and that takes it way above being pedantic.Whether the tactics are any good is beside the point.1 -
@raytreacy69 said:
Turn back the clock 5/6 months and none of us knew whether we would still have a club
We live in crazy times with Covid and no footi crowds but we still have a club and for that we have so much to thank TS for.
I have never been one for sacking a manager on a whim least of all an ex player who became a manager and took us to promotion.
Footi fans are a fickle bunch but I like to think overall we are a very loyal fan base.
For me though TS has a descion to make and one that msy well shape our future.
Reluctantly I feel it's time to part with LB and then on that basis TS has a real decision as to who to replace him with.
TS has a vision and so far is backing it with hard cash - as I say a Watershed moment for him
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Maybe J Block can clarify, but I think the issue was the feeling that the tactic was not given sufficient time in training so the players were comfortable with it.
Whether the player is right or wrong, if there is that feeling within the dressing room it needs to be addressed rather than ignored or it can fester.0 -
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.Cafc43v3r said:
Just about to have a beer actually, I prefer it to the Kool Aid your obviously enduring.Redrobo said:
Now you have put it like that I realise that we have the only football management team in the world that don’t discuss tactics and players who do not understand the basic formations or how to play.Cafc43v3r said:
Now you have put it like that I have totally changed my mind. Every game is a clear tactical master class, from inverted full backs, strikers as wing backs, defending the 6 yard box for 20 minutes when 1 up, half time substitutes and 4 different formations in almost ever game. It only begs the question why everyone else doesn't do any of. Clearly ahead of his time.Redrobo said:
He may have said it, but I just do not believe him.J BLOCK said:
He didn’t allegedly say it. He did say it. It is a tenured player too.Chunes said: hi
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tacticsoohaahmortimer said:J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block )
saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anywayI will say that they didn't come out second half looking like they believed in what they were doingNothing on the pitch has shown me that anything he said was wrong.All clubs analyse everything to death. All players are given instructions on their role in and out of possession. The management team will know all about other players behaviour, which way they turn, teams favourite plays, identified weaknesses and strengths etc etc. Is this player suggesting that Bowyer knows all this but does not tell them?
Do you think they just rock up to training and just have a run about?Interviews are littered with comments like Bowyer told about making runs into the box, we practiced that on the training ground, we knew this was a weakness.
Millar only said last week that Bowyer and him had a one to one training session after training on playing other in and how pleased he was that it came off in the next game.
I take it you have started early on the wine and did not grasp the topic of discussion.7 -
Agree. I just hope he doesn’t go for a Danish coach. That’s probably anxiety hanging over from the Network.AFKABartram said:@raytreacy69 said:
Turn back the clock 5/6 months and none of us knew whether we would still have a club
We live in crazy times with Covid and no footi crowds but we still have a club and for that we have so much to thank TS for.
I have never been one for sacking a manager on a whim least of all an ex player who became a manager and took us to promotion.
Footi fans are a fickle bunch but I like to think overall we are a very loyal fan base.
For me though TS has a descion to make and one that msy well shape our future.
Reluctantly I feel it's time to part with LB and then on that basis TS has a real decision as to who to replace him with.
TS has a vision and so far is backing it with hard cash - as I say a Watershed moment for him
But you wouldn’t rule it out.Personally, if Bowyer does go, I’d love to see Roddy and co throw the kitchen sink at getting Eddie Howe in.5 -
I think the time to sack LB will be if and when we definitely can't go up but. in all probability, at the end of the season anyway - we have to make the right choice and that choice is more likely to be available at that time and not now because that person will be committed to the club he is already at. The only exception to that would be if TS wanted to promote someone like JJ and give him time as caretaker to see whether things are any different.
Of course, should LB turn things around and we find ourselves in the play offs (or even better promoted) then the decision to keep LB is a relatively easy one to make.1 -
Didn't Bowyer get a chance under similar circumstances? It is important that within the squad, JJ is not seen as an extension of Bowyer, but if not why not give him a chance? He knows the players and just that change of mood can make a difference. Also, if it doesn't work, you haven't lost anything. If JJ is deemed part of the problem, then maybe Euell. These sort of things can have an instant effect even if it isn't a lasting one.
Maybe JJ with Pearce as his assistant. Take it into the dressing room and you might get a response.1 -
Sorry, I know you mean well, but you've got a lol from me for the slightest suggestion Eddie Howe might come here.Valley11 said:
Agree. I just hope he doesn’t go for a Danish coach. That’s probably anxiety hanging over from the Network.AFKABartram said:@raytreacy69 said:
Turn back the clock 5/6 months and none of us knew whether we would still have a club
We live in crazy times with Covid and no footi crowds but we still have a club and for that we have so much to thank TS for.
I have never been one for sacking a manager on a whim least of all an ex player who became a manager and took us to promotion.
Footi fans are a fickle bunch but I like to think overall we are a very loyal fan base.
For me though TS has a descion to make and one that msy well shape our future.
Reluctantly I feel it's time to part with LB and then on that basis TS has a real decision as to who to replace him with.
TS has a vision and so far is backing it with hard cash - as I say a Watershed moment for him
But you wouldn’t rule it out.Personally, if Bowyer does go, I’d love to see Roddy and co throw the kitchen sink at getting Eddie Howe in.
If TS can sell Eddie Howe the journey with Charlton in league 1, he really is a miracle worker.
My god I'd love to see it though!!7 - Sponsored links:
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If all you can do is resort to childish personal insults, poor one's at that, I suggest you may have lost any moral high ground you thought, if your capable of thought, you may of had.Redrobo said:
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.Cafc43v3r said:
Just about to have a beer actually, I prefer it to the Kool Aid your obviously enduring.Redrobo said:
Now you have put it like that I realise that we have the only football management team in the world that don’t discuss tactics and players who do not understand the basic formations or how to play.Cafc43v3r said:
Now you have put it like that I have totally changed my mind. Every game is a clear tactical master class, from inverted full backs, strikers as wing backs, defending the 6 yard box for 20 minutes when 1 up, half time substitutes and 4 different formations in almost ever game. It only begs the question why everyone else doesn't do any of. Clearly ahead of his time.Redrobo said:
He may have said it, but I just do not believe him.J BLOCK said:
He didn’t allegedly say it. He did say it. It is a tenured player too.Chunes said: hi
The player allegedly said the team never discuss tactics, so not sure how the team could also be unhappy with the tacticsoohaahmortimer said:J Block heard it first hand from a player and I heard it third hand from a friend of a friend (nowt to do with J block )
saying the players weren’t happy with training and tactics
I think that particular accusation has been dispelled in various player interviews since anywayI will say that they didn't come out second half looking like they believed in what they were doingNothing on the pitch has shown me that anything he said was wrong.All clubs analyse everything to death. All players are given instructions on their role in and out of possession. The management team will know all about other players behaviour, which way they turn, teams favourite plays, identified weaknesses and strengths etc etc. Is this player suggesting that Bowyer knows all this but does not tell them?
Do you think they just rock up to training and just have a run about?Interviews are littered with comments like Bowyer told about making runs into the box, we practiced that on the training ground, we knew this was a weakness.
Millar only said last week that Bowyer and him had a one to one training session after training on playing other in and how pleased he was that it came off in the next game.
I take it you have started early on the wine and did not grasp the topic of discussion.2 -
Surely no one really thinks we don’t discuss tactics.1
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Also tallies with the timing of the change in Bowyer's public demeanour.DamoNorthStand said:I have also heard from a friend who worked with Ged Roddy at Bath Uni that he has said to Saandgard that he can’t work with Bowyer - various reason listed including things like his language to the players, demeanour, respect to players on the training ground and processes (whatever that means). Only happy to share now as it seems to have also come out elsewhere.
Would fit with why Roddy has been very quiet.
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If regrettably Bows does have to go I'd like us to do something completely different. No ex-charlton connection. nobody who's been round the EFL block 5 times.
I'd like to see Thomas find our Franke, Wagner, Struber. Lets get a completely new input, attitude and hopefully a new progressive playing style to match - a new broom as they say.
C'mon guys we aren't getting Eddie Howe or anyone like that. Thomas is good but he's not that good.3 -
This thread has become 'should Bowyer stay or go' , personally I think he should have gone weeks ago, but In answer to that question on a wider scale:
Look back over comments made on this thread a week ago after we lost to Gillingham, he still had quite a bit of support.
Now look at comments made after yesterday's game. A lot more people are saying he should go, including some of those who were backing him last week.
I feel that trend will continue after every passing game & he has reached the point of no return. That for me, is why he has to go NOW.
He is rapidly losing the support of the fans & will continue to do so in my opinion.9 -
People talk about social media in relation to this. But we are at a point where there would be vocal protests if fans were allowed in. That is usually the point where owners react.3
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Yeah I have to agree with this. If fans were allowed in, I think he would've gone weeks ago!MuttleyCAFC said:People talk about social media in relation to this. But we are at a point where there would be vocal protests if fans were allowed in. That is usually the point where owners react.
Or certainly after the Gillingham game last week at the very latest1 -
A question for those who are specifically looking for someone without a Charlton connection - why exactly do you think that is better?
I appreciate that a decision shouldn’t be made on sentiment, but if you have two or more equally skilled candidates and one of them has a Charlton connection, then surely that gives them a bit of an edge from the fanbase’s perspective?
The promotions under Powell and Bowyer were heavily influenced by the all round good feeling at the club at those times. Even more impressive considering it was the first managerial job for both of them.
I’d love to see Johnnie Jackson get a chance.0 - Sponsored links:
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I agree with this with the exception that I believe Bow has until the end of the season regardless. Not to win us a playoff place but to show something that will encourage TS to allow him to spend his money in the summer. We do seem a way off that happening though.AFKABartram said:@raytreacy69 said:
Turn back the clock 5/6 months and none of us knew whether we would still have a club
We live in crazy times with Covid and no footi crowds but we still have a club and for that we have so much to thank TS for.
I have never been one for sacking a manager on a whim least of all an ex player who became a manager and took us to promotion.
Footi fans are a fickle bunch but I like to think overall we are a very loyal fan base.
For me though TS has a descion to make and one that msy well shape our future.
Reluctantly I feel it's time to part with LB and then on that basis TS has a real decision as to who to replace him with.
TS has a vision and so far is backing it with hard cash - as I say a Watershed moment for him0 -
Certainly more evidence of late that there is a complete lack of tactics, than evidence of there being any tactics at all.Redrobo said:
The point is do we believe a player was telling the truth in claiming Bowyer does not discuss tactics with the team.MuttleyCAFC said:Not sure what the point is other than a pedantic one. Tactics are either an issue or not, whether they are discussed or not. Or whether they are right or not. Sometimes the tactics can be right, but they are not sold to the players well enough. If you do badly, the tactics you don't employ, will generally be the right ones.
There is a communication and management element to this. But it is true, it is a lot harder to manage when things are going wrong. A different skillset is required, and many managers don't have them sadly.It is being used to discredit the manager and that takes it way above being pedantic.Whether the tactics are any good is beside the point.0 -
The trouble with appointing somebody who's part of Bowyer's coaching setup, is that they could be seen as part of the problemcafctom said:
I’d love to see Johnnie Jackson get a chance.1 -
I am not saying this for any points scoring but when he gave it the "time on the training ground" stuff before the autumn Internationals I actually thought we would walk the league.Gravesend_Addick said:This thread has become 'should Bowyer stay or go' , personally I think he should have gone weeks ago, but In answer to that question on a wider scale:
Look back over comments made on this thread a week ago after we lost to Gillingham, he still had quite a bit of support.
Now look at comments made after yesterday's game. A lot more people are saying he should go, including some of those who were backing him last week.
I feel that trend will continue after every passing game & he has reached the point of no return. That for me, is why he has to go NOW.
He is rapidly losing the support of the fans & will continue to do so in my opinion.
When he started throwing the players under buses, then blamed the fans (even if that's not actually what he ment) I knew the writing was on the wall. I have never seen a manger come back from that.
The second halves of the Wimbledon and Rochdale games probably both brought him an extra month in the job, in some people's eyes. They were exactly a month apart, the Gillingham game was the end of the 3rd month.
To answers @MuttleyCAFC point about vocal demonstrations against him. No I don't think so, certainly not like we saw against Pardew. I do however think the team would be regularly booed off, gates down and a generally toxic atmosphere would be generated.
It does set it up for a whole new start next season. New owner, new manager, new team.0 -
I'm not firmly committed either way but based on TS' approach so far - in essence, a totally clean broom, grounds up rebuild - I'd expect someone who buys into that. Which probably does rule out JJ or Euell but theoretically not Powell as everything and everyone since his first run has been changed.cafctom said:A question for those who are specifically looking for someone without a Charlton connection - why exactly do you think that is better?
I appreciate that a decision shouldn’t be made on sentiment, but if you have two or more equally skilled candidates and one of them has a Charlton connection, then surely that gives them a bit of an edge from the fanbase’s perspective?
The promotions under Powell and Bowyer were heavily influenced by the all round good feeling at the club at those times. Even more impressive considering it was the first managerial job for both of them.
I’d love to see Johnnie Jackson get a chance.
In all seriousness if there is a foreign/unknown coach bought in I'd imagine he's as likely to be American as Danish - someone who really buys into TS' personal/business style.1 -
cafctom said:A question for those who are specifically looking for someone without a Charlton connection - why exactly do you think that is better?
I appreciate that a decision shouldn’t be made on sentiment, but if you have two or more equally skilled candidates and one of them has a Charlton connection, then surely that gives them a bit of an edge from the fanbase’s perspective?
The promotions under Powell and Bowyer were heavily influenced by the all round good feeling at the club at those times. Even more impressive considering it was the first managerial job for both of them.
I’d love to see Johnnie Jackson get a chance.
Jason Euell must know a thing or two.
People that have worked behind the scenes for long periods will always be ahead. It is the apprenticeship route. Will enable him to be objective about stuff and see things from the inside.
Probably has all the required relevant coaching badges.
If anyone's going to get a chance then we could potentially give it to the euell.
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That is true and my caveat is that they need to be confident that they are not. It is something none of us can comment on with knowledge. Of course, if say JJ was appointed, it would not necessarily be a long term appointment, he would have to do something great like Bowyer did to make it so.
I think if you accept that we have a decent squad, a short term solution that is close to the players would be a good one. It would untie a lot of the knots and maybe change the mood music enough for a run. If JJ is not the man (not for any of us to say) maybe Pearce is. Or Pearce and Gunter or Prately.
I have to be honest, unlike many who seem to have given up, I am still looking at achieving something this season. That is the priority for me.0 -
I would rather Jason than JJ as he has been doing a great job with the youngsters in a management role and been successful.Dave2l said:cafctom said:A question for those who are specifically looking for someone without a Charlton connection - why exactly do you think that is better?
I appreciate that a decision shouldn’t be made on sentiment, but if you have two or more equally skilled candidates and one of them has a Charlton connection, then surely that gives them a bit of an edge from the fanbase’s perspective?
The promotions under Powell and Bowyer were heavily influenced by the all round good feeling at the club at those times. Even more impressive considering it was the first managerial job for both of them.
I’d love to see Johnnie Jackson get a chance.
Jason Euell must know a thing or two.
People that have worked behind the scenes for long periods will always be ahead. It is the apprenticeship route. Will enable him to be objective about stuff and see things from the inside.
Probably has all the required relevant coaching badges.
If anyone's going to get a chance then we could potentially give it to the euell.4 -
As much a I love JJ , And Sir Chris I’d want to see a totally new coach with new ideas and his own coaches .20
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If we lose at home to Burton on Tuesday (who are bottom and have been for as long as I can recall) do you still think Bow is safe regardless?ShootersHillGuru said:
I agree with this with the exception that I believe Bow has until the end of the season regardless. Not to win us a playoff place but to show something that will encourage TS to allow him to spend his money in the summer. We do seem a way off that happening though.AFKABartram said:@raytreacy69 said:
Turn back the clock 5/6 months and none of us knew whether we would still have a club
We live in crazy times with Covid and no footi crowds but we still have a club and for that we have so much to thank TS for.
I have never been one for sacking a manager on a whim least of all an ex player who became a manager and took us to promotion.
Footi fans are a fickle bunch but I like to think overall we are a very loyal fan base.
For me though TS has a descion to make and one that msy well shape our future.
Reluctantly I feel it's time to part with LB and then on that basis TS has a real decision as to who to replace him with.
TS has a vision and so far is backing it with hard cash - as I say a Watershed moment for him0
This discussion has been closed.
