It would be really unfair to highlight any particular post from the first few pages of this thread but there must be a few people with red faces on re -reading their posts!
Can't see how anyone can say otherwise, doesn't do anything other than foul and give the ball away.
And that’s why Bowyer loves him and Pratley, I’m sure he believes thats passion when in truth they are just crap and 5 yards slower than any other player.
Here out of convenience, wanted to move back to the area.
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
Here so he can spend more time with his family, ease to retirement and collect his wages. Stealing a living with us. Fuck him off asap and never get another ex Palace player again cause they are almost always shit.
Was disgusted to see that he was wearing the armband today after Pratley went off. Just goes to show what crap we’ve got in this team if he’s the one who is the ‘leader’ in the camp.
Watson especially is in no position to criticise Maddison's attitude (as per that Bromley meeting)
Yes, Maddison's attitude problems may be more obvious, but Watson in his own way is just as much a waste of space, if not more so. At least Maddison might produce a moment of magic, whereas Watson is a busy central midfielder who either can't be bothered or isn't capable of being busy any more
In an alternative universe that would be his last performance for Charlton and we wouldn’t see him again. Play Morgan, or give Vennings or Henry an opportunity they can’t be worse than that Nigel.
Do people still not see that we have signed players who performed well last season or this season and yet they are not performing for us.
Do you have to ask yourself why?
Watson should have been a good signing. Gilbey should have been a good signing too. Yep Gunter too. Matthews we know how good he can be. Maatsen started well and is now looking average at best. Jaiyesimi came from being stand out for Swindon. Shinnie was massive in Luton's promotion season, maybe he was signed a season too late.
The other loanees have by and large been our more consistent performers (when they have been played), yet people complain we have too many.
Do you still have to ask if the players are the problem? Sure they're underperforming but whose job is it to motivate the players? To take them on a journey. To get them onboard for that journey.
Do people still not see that we have signed players who performed well last season or this season and yet they are not performing for us.
Do you have to ask yourself why?
Watson should have been a good signing. Gilbey should have been a good signing too. Yep Gunter too. Matthews we know how good he can be. Maatsen started well and is now looking average at best. Jaiyesimi came from being stand out for Swindon. Shinnie was massive in Luton's promotion season, maybe he was signed a season too late.
The other loanees have by and large been our more consistent performers (when they have been played), yet people complain we have too many.
Do you still have to ask if the players are the problem? Sure they're underperforming but whose job is it to motivate the players? To take them on a journey. To get them onboard for that journey.
This ten times over.
Whenever I make a suggestion to my old uni mate who is still a Forest season ticket holder that Watson isn’t good enough he basically tells me to pull the other one.
One of their best players in his opinion still last season..... lots of good players who all are shit all of a sudden.
One common denominator and that’s the man who signed them and is now coaching them and setting their team up
Do people still not see that we have signed players who performed well last season or this season and yet they are not performing for us.
Do you have to ask yourself why?
Watson should have been a good signing. Gilbey should have been a good signing too. Yep Gunter too. Matthews we know how good he can be. Maatsen started well and is now looking average at best. Jaiyesimi came from being stand out for Swindon. Shinnie was massive in Luton's promotion season, maybe he was signed a season too late.
The other loanees have by and large been our more consistent performers (when they have been played), yet people complain we have too many.
Do you still have to ask if the players are the problem? Sure they're underperforming but whose job is it to motivate the players? To take them on a journey. To get them onboard for that journey.
Exactly. The common denominator isn’t Watson. It’s bowyer.
watson is not our best player but even when he was getting pelters on the match thread, he made a couple of interceptions by having good positional awareness. Watson is old, experienced buts slow. He needs an aribo energetic player next to him.
I don’t understand our transfer policy. We’ve signed players based on history rather than fit. Watson falls into this category
Here out of convenience, wanted to move back to the area.
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
We have used Watson very badly, playing him in a different role to the one he played for Forest, he really influenced them getting back in the game at the Valley last season.
But our midfield is like England's bowling attack of the 90s 8 decent right arm medium fasts all chopping and changing trying to find a perfect balance, with no varity.
Watson, Morgan, Shinnie, Smith and JFC are so similar you would never want more than 1 maybe 2 in the team at the same time.
Here out of convenience, wanted to move back to the area.
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
We have used Watson very badly, playing him in a different role to the one he played for Forest, he really influenced them getting back in the game at the Valley last season.
But our midfield is like England's bowling attack of the 90s 8 decent right arm medium fasts all chopping and changing trying to find a perfect balance, with no varity.
Watson, Morgan, Shinnie, Smith and JFC are so similar you would never want more than 1 maybe 2 in the team at the same time.
Perhaps he felt like trying at Forest. He's a 35-year-old who can take responsibility for his own performances.
Perhaps Bowyer isn't 'using' him correctly, but he's also not trying at all, and laughing and joking when we're losing at home, and his general carelessness has cost us goals this season.
Here out of convenience, wanted to move back to the area.
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
We have used Watson very badly, playing him in a different role to the one he played for Forest, he really influenced them getting back in the game at the Valley last season.
But our midfield is like England's bowling attack of the 90s 8 decent right arm medium fasts all chopping and changing trying to find a perfect balance, with no varity.
Watson, Morgan, Shinnie, Smith and JFC are so similar you would never want more than 1 maybe 2 in the team at the same time.
What was his role at Forest?
As either a 2 in a 4231 or as part of a 3 in a 433.
When he was used in a 4141. His job was to get the ball off the defenders and pass it forward. That's not what he has been doing, or trying to do, for us. Playing at the base of the diamond, especially with lack of any real movement in front of him is a totally different job.
He hasn't been great, or even good, for us but I think we could/should have got more out of him.
Another player signed, probably on reputation, with no idea how to get the best out of him. That list is getting longer by the week.
Here out of convenience, wanted to move back to the area.
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
We have used Watson very badly, playing him in a different role to the one he played for Forest, he really influenced them getting back in the game at the Valley last season.
But our midfield is like England's bowling attack of the 90s 8 decent right arm medium fasts all chopping and changing trying to find a perfect balance, with no varity.
Watson, Morgan, Shinnie, Smith and JFC are so similar you would never want more than 1 maybe 2 in the team at the same time.
What was his role at Forest?
As either a 2 in a 4231 or as part of a 3 in a 433.
When he was used in a 4141. His job was to get the ball off the defenders and pass it forward. That's not what he has been doing, or trying to do, for us. Playing at the base of the diamond, especially with lack of any real movement in front of him is a totally different job.
He hasn't been great, or even good, for us but I think we could/should have got more out of him.
Another player signed, probably on reputation, with no idea how to get the best out of him. That list is getting longer by the week.
That’s what I thought, always part of a central midfield 3, whatever the formation. Not having movement and pace around him is the big difference.
4-1-4-1 is 4-3-3 under a different name while a diamond still has that central midfield 3 plus a 4th ahead of them. The diamond hasn’t worked this season without that movement and pace in the midfield and strikers. In 18/19 we had that with several players comfortable drifting wide and running with the ball.
Signed on reputation as you say rather than understanding why he was still performing in the Championship. If could put together a team of Championship players in their mid 30s+ they wouldn’t perform in League 1 as many would have similar weaknesses.
Perhaps he felt like trying at Forest. He's a 35-year-old who can take responsibility for his own performances.
Perhaps Bowyer isn't 'using' him correctly, but he's also not trying at all, and laughing and joking when we're losing at home, and his general carelessness has cost us goals this season.
Bowyer selects the team and motivates the players. If players are so bad why does he keep selecting them?
It's funny how so many players don't seem to 'care' under his management?
Part of me feels sorry for players like Ben Watson. He’s not terrible, he’s just a bang average League One player. If we want(ed) to get promoted he’s definitely not what we need, but it’s not his fault he’s so average.
Perhaps he felt like trying at Forest. He's a 35-year-old who can take responsibility for his own performances.
Perhaps Bowyer isn't 'using' him correctly, but he's also not trying at all, and laughing and joking when we're losing at home, and his general carelessness has cost us goals this season.
Bowyer selects the team and motivates the players. If players are so bad why does he keep selecting them?
It's funny how so many players don't seem to 'care' under his management?
That must be the 14th time you've made that point in the past 24 hours. I think everyone has read it now!
Bowyer seems to love Watson and Pratley for some reason and I can't explain that. Their faults are invisible to him. As for the other players, I'd expect them to have a baseline of professionalism no matter who the manager is. But this is a thread about Ben Watson.
Not the greatest signing but it's amazing how every player we get seems to get worse.
‘Charltonised’ is a real thing, it actually exists as a tangeable phenomenon, it works the other way round too, players can be ‘uncharltonised’ where they improve upon leaving
Do people still not see that we have signed players who performed well last season or this season and yet they are not performing for us.
Do you have to ask yourself why?
Watson should have been a good signing. Gilbey should have been a good signing too. Yep Gunter too. Matthews we know how good he can be. Maatsen started well and is now looking average at best. Jaiyesimi came from being stand out for Swindon. Shinnie was massive in Luton's promotion season, maybe he was signed a season too late.
The other loanees have by and large been our more consistent performers (when they have been played), yet people complain we have too many.
Do you still have to ask if the players are the problem? Sure they're underperforming but whose job is it to motivate the players? To take them on a journey. To get them onboard for that journey.
And most players that leave seem to be going to go clubs in better leagues or higher positions than us despite having been in poor Charlton teams.
I’ll assume that he was actually alright for Forest last season, however the 1-1 game at the valley he was terrible. Couldn’t move for toffee and got booked. That’s not the Watson we know...
Perhaps he felt like trying at Forest. He's a 35-year-old who can take responsibility for his own performances.
Perhaps Bowyer isn't 'using' him correctly, but he's also not trying at all, and laughing and joking when we're losing at home, and his general carelessness has cost us goals this season.
Bowyer selects the team and motivates the players. If players are so bad why does he keep selecting them?
It's funny how so many players don't seem to 'care' under his management?
That must be the 14th time you've made that point in the past 24 hours. I think everyone has read it now!
Bowyer seems to love Watson and Pratley for some reason and I can't explain that. Their faults are invisible to him. As for the other players, I'd expect them to have a baseline of professionalism no matter who the manager is. But this is a thread about Ben Watson.
Other posters keep making the same point over and over again which I'm replying to. My point is relevant as it refers to motivation which people are questioning when it comes to Ben Watson.
Comments
Didn't need much scouting as he played regularly for Forest last season. Same with Gunter, another 'name', but willing to play at this level for a reason.
Difference I assume is Forest had a mobile and energetic midfield 5 around him (I'm sure it was said they played 1 up front when Taylor signed for them).
All our CMs other than Morgan can be described as slow or lacking energy. Not seen enough of Smith to judge. Gilbey seemed comfortable driving forward with the ball before his injury, not seen that in him since.
We have 2 players per position (plus a few extra CMs) but the balance isn't right. A midfield that sounds good on paper but doesn't fit together in reality.
Cawley seriously cocked up in how much he bigged up this signing. A big fish and somebody who could still play in the PL was said at the time.
Yes, Maddison's attitude problems may be more obvious, but Watson in his own way is just as much a waste of space, if not more so. At least Maddison might produce a moment of magic, whereas Watson is a busy central midfielder who either can't be bothered or isn't capable of being busy any more
Do you have to ask yourself why?
Watson should have been a good signing.
Gilbey should have been a good signing too.
Yep Gunter too.
Matthews we know how good he can be.
Maatsen started well and is now looking average at best.
Jaiyesimi came from being stand out for Swindon.
Shinnie was massive in Luton's promotion season, maybe he was signed a season too late.
The other loanees have by and large been our more consistent performers (when they have been played), yet people complain we have too many.
Do you still have to ask if the players are the problem? Sure they're underperforming but whose job is it to motivate the players? To take them on a journey. To get them onboard for that journey.
Whenever I make a suggestion to my old uni mate who is still a Forest season ticket holder that Watson isn’t good enough he basically tells me to pull the other one.
One common denominator and that’s the man who signed them and is now coaching them and setting their team up
watson is not our best player but even when he was getting pelters on the match thread, he made a couple of interceptions by having good positional awareness. Watson is old, experienced buts slow. He needs an aribo energetic player next to him.
But our midfield is like England's bowling attack of the 90s 8 decent right arm medium fasts all chopping and changing trying to find a perfect balance, with no varity.
Watson, Morgan, Shinnie, Smith and JFC are so similar you would never want more than 1 maybe 2 in the team at the same time.
Perhaps Bowyer isn't 'using' him correctly, but he's also not trying at all, and laughing and joking when we're losing at home, and his general carelessness has cost us goals this season.
When he was used in a 4141. His job was to get the ball off the defenders and pass it forward. That's not what he has been doing, or trying to do, for us. Playing at the base of the diamond, especially with lack of any real movement in front of him is a totally different job.
He hasn't been great, or even good, for us but I think we could/should have got more out of him.
Another player signed, probably on reputation, with no idea how to get the best out of him. That list is getting longer by the week.
4-1-4-1 is 4-3-3 under a different name while a diamond still has that central midfield 3 plus a 4th ahead of them. The diamond hasn’t worked this season without that movement and pace in the midfield and strikers. In 18/19 we had that with several players comfortable drifting wide and running with the ball.
Signed on reputation as you say rather than understanding why he was still performing in the Championship. If could put together a team of Championship players in their mid 30s+ they wouldn’t perform in League 1 as many would have similar weaknesses.
It's funny how so many players don't seem to 'care' under his management?
Bowyer seems to love Watson and Pratley for some reason and I can't explain that. Their faults are invisible to him. As for the other players, I'd expect them to have a baseline of professionalism no matter who the manager is. But this is a thread about Ben Watson.
Glad you're keeping count.