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Has Bowyer lost it?
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I think the main Cowley brother sounds like Pardew. And he's a proper oddball, did you see him on Soccer AM? Even if only walking a few yards he has to out his left arm in his pocket and then does a wierd shuffle.Cafc43v3r said:What about Paul Lambert then
He took Norwich from the 3rd tier to the Premier league, and kept them there
Nigle Atkins got back to back promotions then got sacked at Southampton.
I assume no one would want either of them or seriously thinks we can get Eddie Howe?
The pool of mangers who have taken clubs from the 3rd tier to the Premier league, and kept them there, is so small it might as well not exist.
The manager for next season, be it Bowyer or someone else has got to get us into the championship and keep us there. Then you can think about philosophy and cultures.
Not for me.1 -
While the playoffs might be mathematically possible.CAFCTrev said:In the Brazillian league, the saying is any manager is three games away from the sack at all times. I have a feeling this is the stage LB is at now, if we lose tomorrow and Sat that might be the end and surely any playoff hopes will be gone totally.
Realistically they disappeared weeks ago.1 -
All this over analysis of what he says after games , then the over analysis of what the over analysts are over analysing means and how it’s all the internet’s fault we are going crazy and losing rationale, whilst this waffle moves us away from the main subject of how good/bad/indifferent we are under Lee Bowyer at this point in time .
we are fucking shit and underperforming at the wankest levels in our history
and to me he won’t be part of the solution so he’s part of the problem (love a cliche)
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This isn't meant as a dig at Bowyer, but quotes in the below link clearly demonstrate where he falls short with his man management skills.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/thats-wrong-lee-bowyer-rejects-suggestion-charltons-players-have-lost-desire-to-perform-for-him/
You cannot use the same hardline approach with every player, it simply won't work. Some players will need an arm around them, and some will need a rocket up their arse. As a manager, it's your job to work out who needs what, and act accordingly. That's the same in football and any other walk of life.17 -
TS is very sensible. I think he’s definitely aware of the supposed unrest and that there has to be an underlying reason as to why it’s all gone so wrong, but he needs more evidence before deciding to let Bowyer go. Results will definitely play a part in that, because even though he and Lee are speaking at the moment and it would assume Lee is saying we can still make the play offs, the run of defeats continuing will make it harder for Lee’s words to hold any weight
He’s also probably very aware that he’s only 6 months into owning us now. He seems like he’s a positive man who wants things to be given a chance and is a inspirational type leader, so I don’t think we’ll see him pull the trigger just yet. Add to the fact he’ll have the added work of trying to find someone new.
If Bowyer was to go, I would want an outside apt. Jackson or Euell just won’t cut it for me2 -
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.5 -
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.0 -
End this bloody nightmare TS.
Bowyer continues to say anything to help keep him in a job, the Cawley article today and P'Boro comparison is the biggest bunch of nonsense I've read from him.
I've said it before, and i'll say it again - Bowyer is only in this job because fans aren't in attendance. If they were, it will be toxic cesspit down at the Valley and TS would have no option but to act.7 -
Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.2
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This thread is turning into a Charlton version of AFTV.7
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Thing is personal attacks for the players if they are not performing are just that personal, not something you do in public, that way you just cause unease.MuttleyCAFC said:Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.0 -
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?FishCostaFortune said:
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.10 -
So many quotes this season, so difficult to remember one week to the next. But did bowyer not immediately come out on the Monday and explain his remarks about what he’d said about the fans. I thought he admitted his expectations were too high for the 2,000 in attendance, he then went on to say how much he adores all the fans.MuttleyCAFC said:Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.3 -
I don't understand how players can be trying but also not care.MattF said:1 -
It’s where a small comment has been taken and twisted to seem much worse than it isse9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.6 -
“Be careful with that axe Eugene.”EugenesAxe said:The defenition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome: in this case LB and his man management.
Pink Floyd.
Ummagumma.
1969.
Axe.....slang word for a guitar, much used by musos and road crews.
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Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.se9addick said:
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?FishCostaFortune said:
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.
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It’s embarrassing, and more than likely to achieve the opposite in that some fans who are not happy with the current scenario and are open to change are more likely to double down and look to defend Bowyer as they see the completely OTT demonising as being wholly unfair.18
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And if it was only that in isolation it would be fair enough. But it hasn't been. I know that his attack on Williams did not go down well in the dressing room - J Block has told us that first hand from a player. He said an incredibly nasty thing about not caring about a player's injury amongst hanging out others to dry.stoneroses19 said:
So many quotes this season, so difficult to remember one week to the next. But did bowyer not immediately come out on the Monday and explain his remarks about what he’d said about the fans. I thought he admitted his expectations were too high for the 2,000 in attendance, he then went on to say how much he adores all the fans.MuttleyCAFC said:Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.
What happens when you do this is you lose the dressing room. From getting attacked for having the temerity to mention it a few months back, it seems a lot are accepting it now. I want him out because I believe he is damaging us. I admit I am angry, but it is because he is still here and still blaming everybody else.2 - Sponsored links:
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Oh do shut up Muttley......what attack on fans?MuttleyCAFC said:Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.5 -
Bowyer said our support is shit , I'm fully behind him 100% with this26
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We have gone 8 games in the 3rd tier at home without winning. A 3rd tier which is mediocre compared to when we had Leeds, Southampton and Norwich, when Parky was at the helm.
I was consistently in the Bowyer must be given until the end of season because of the crazy injuries and nonsense going on pre Sandgaard But we are reaching a new nadir every week. I felt it was an end of an era after the Burton game. It's Thomas Sandgaard's choice and if he feels Lee Bowyer can reclaim his mojo then fine but the criticism of Jonny Williams does appear to have had an adverse effect ever since.
No problem with players getting a rocket but keep it in house.
Whether wages or the constant changes in players, formations and the clear lack of any coherent system the players are all playing well below Par. That may be good in Golf but it's poor in football and the buck stops with the manager.
Why are so many players who have either played at a higher level or are loanees from premier clubs struggling at this low level.
Millar TBF had played well but even he looked out of salts in last couple of games.
We are consistent; unfortunately consistently poor.4 -
It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
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To be fair the Arsenal fans had it worse. Where were Peter Gabriel or the Special AKA with the protest songs for their plight?DA9 said:
Only when we get to the stage that one arsenal fan did of comparing our situation to apartheid in South Africa, which actually did happenChunes said:This thread is turning into a Charlton version of AFTV.1 -
LB is the master of deflection. He holds his hands up and says that he has to take the blame as well as the accolades. But there always follows an explanation as to why it wasn't his fault - it's usually "we set 'em up right then x or y or z makes a mistake. I can't control them things". He goes into far more detail as to what player "X" did wrong rather than what actually he did wrong.
We never him say, for example, that he picked the wrong team more that he had to make two, three or even four subs at half time because they weren't "doing it". He will never miss an opportunity to hang a player out to dry - think Taylor, Solly, Bonne, Maddison, Bogle, Phillips, Morgan, Williams, Pearce, Gilbey, Washington etc etc.
But the likes of Gunter, Watson and Pratley are untouchable. It really doesn't matter how many mistakes they make - and they've made quite a few between them this season. It was his decision on Saturday to leave Pratley on the pitch. Has he admitted that, knowing he was one mistimed tackle away from being sent off, it was his and Pratley's fault for that?
This is who he actually blamed in his post match interview on Saturday:
The defence for giving away an early goal
The officials "for killing them"
"Pratley, second yellow, think that's harsh. To be fair the lads wiped him out and he's fallen on him. Don't think that there was anything malicious"
"Then Chuks' red, it was just one decision after another"
"2nd goal disappointing, fella runs 20 yards without anyone challenging him"
"Washington's come in but did I see him scream out at me like 'I'm gonna play next game'? I didn't see that"
"Think they're feeling sorry for themselves"
He goes on to say that players aren't taking their opportunities and then be playing for the next six games. But on the occasions when they do take that opportunity, we've seen the "R" word come out as the reason for them being taken out of the side for the very next game.
Yet not one word on what he, himself, did wrong on Saturday.
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Think that’s unfair. You’re the main voice on this thread, posting twice as much as anybody else, and rarely are you being disagreed with, most people are in fact in agreement with you. It’s only the latest comment about attacks on fans which a couple of us have said that’s not quite right, you even just replied to my reply saying if it was only the fans thing in isolation you’d be okay.MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.3 -
Well you’re certainly making a good job at it.MuttleyCAFC said:It seems you can criticise the players all you like and even call them unprofessional and rubbish as many Bowyer supporters have done, but you can't do the same to him if you believe he is the problem.
Incidentally ....... care to explain your assertion re him digging out the fans?0 -
But you by your own admission have quoted the post by @muttleycafc where he did accuse Bowyer of “personal attacks on ... fans”, you literally just wrote it.FishCostaFortune said:
Wow. Did you not read anything I or even MuttleyCAFC just wrote. It's utterly bemusing to me how quick posters are on here to get outraged and attack others.se9addick said:
For goodness sake, that’s supposed to be a “personal attack” against fans? We’re just making stuff up to use against him now aren’t we?FishCostaFortune said:
https://talksport.com/football/efl/798777/lee-bowyer-negative-charlton-fans-mk-dons-left-early/se9addick said:
“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?MuttleyCAFC said:He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.
I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal, though I am sure some fans took it that way, but it is another example of him looking to deflect blame.
I think Bowyer should go because the results have gone against him, our league position isn’t good enough and he doesn’t appear to be able to turn it around.Let’s leave all the other nonsense out.
I'll run you through what happened:
Muttley said:
'He can make personal attacks on players and fans and not take any responsibility for it or poor performances and clueless tactics and yet some think that is fine.'
You then asked:
'“Personal attacks on...fans”? When was that?'
I then referred to what Muttley was likely talking about, and even said 'I wouldn't say what Bowyer said was personal' - though if you look at the reactions to what was said by fans on this very forum a lot of them took massive exception to this.
Muttley then even went on to say his quote was meant to read as:
'Sorry, personal attacks on players and attacks on fans.'
And then you decided to excuse people of talking nonsense and making stuff up! Which then seems to get a bunch of likes even though no one actually excused Bowyer of making personal attacks on fans,
Unique.I haven’t “decided to excuse (accuse?)” people of anything, I asked Muttley to clarify and he has subsequently stated that the “personal attacks” on fans never happened.
That’s the risk here, people seem to be writing hundreds of words on this subject and they are doing so from a place of emotion. That is leading them to say silly things which really undermines their credibility, it’s like texting an ex at 2am when you’ve had a few - it will make you feel better in the moment but in the cold light of day you look ridiculous. Someone said earlier that people should take a breath before posting, I think that’s good advice.10
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