Bowyer's got to go (ed. p23 CAFCOfficial twitter confirm he's gone)

NapaAddick said:

Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.

MK Dons must want their managers head! Massively underperforming.

Wait we were just linked with wanting Russel Martin.

How does this work? 

Billericaydickie said:

I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.

I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.

As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.

I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think

Chunes said:

You don't become successful by following what Dave Smith on a forum says is a good idea. 

As carmaker Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

True but if he didnt also listen you would still only be able to buy a Ford in black 😁

Billericaydickie said:

AndyG said:

Billericaydickie said:

I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.

I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.

As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.

I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think

I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.

Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers 

Billericaydickie said:

Rothko said:

Billericaydickie said:

AndyG said:

Billericaydickie said:

I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.

I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.

As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.

I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think

I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.

Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers 

Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 % of the posters on here.

If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.

How many fans are on CharltonLife though?

2,000 - 5,000? - If thats the case thats no where near normal attendance levels, of course there will be those on twitter and not even on social media who no doubt have the same feelings so impossible to actually judge. 

ForeverAddickted said:

Billericaydickie said:

Rothko said:

Billericaydickie said:

AndyG said:

Billericaydickie said:

I would love to know whether Thomas Sandgard reads Charlton Life.

I have no idea, but If he does then he will know that there is an awful lot of fans wanting Bowyer replaced.

As a successful businessman I am sure that he has his finger on the pulse, and will be acutely aware of the groundswell of anger and frustration from the fans.

I think it would be odds on mate. Maybe not himself ( although it wouldnt surprise me if he did ) but odds on he has someone reading it and reporting back. Fans are his customers at the end of the day and any sensible business wants to know what its customers think

I hope that you are right, because surely if Thomas really knows the depth of feeling towards Bowyer, then Bowyer is a dead man walking.

Is there really a massive depth of feeling. There is a lot of noise but not huge numbers 

Based on what I read on Charlton Life the Bowyer out brigade must be approaching 60/65 % of the posters on here.

If I am correct, and that is a reflection of our fans feelings, that is a huge number.

How many fans are on CharltonLife though?

2,000 - 5,000? - If thats the case thats no where near normal attendance levels, of course there will be those on twitter and not even on social media who no doubt have the same feelings so impossible to actually judge. 

I worked it out, for some other reason a couple of years ago.  I think the conclusion I came to was there was actually only 50 odd people that had expressed an opinion on the issue.  Despite the fact it was a multi page thread.

The view was about 90% in favour of what ever it was (I can't remember what the actual subject was) and I got pelters for pointing out even on the biggest forum it was still only about 0.1% of fans.

If anyone uses Charlton Life, Facebook, Twitter or Trust Surveys on the basis they are a gospel reflection of "all fans" opinions and base any significant business decisions on it, as the only source, their business won't do well for very long.

If anyone post on here, or else where, for any other reason than to express an opinion they need to give their head a wobble. 

What an enlightening thread. I’m perfectly happy to stick with with Lee and if TS wants to give him next season then that’s fine with me too. What I would say is that I do think Lee has made innumerable quite big errors in judgement this season. Some quite inexplicable. I currently don’t see the Lee Bowyer prior to our Wembley win. I see a completely different person. I’m a little concerned by the manager I’m seeing at the moment. To his credit. He has probably gone through one of the most intense baptisms of football management fires in history. Some stability and support from the owner might be both Lee’s and the football clubs salvation. It’s all about next season now for me. 

Dazzler21 said:

Bowyer's got to go when Sandgaard decides.

TS is reluctant to sack him. When fans are back in and if we continue to underperform, the message will be heard loud and clear by TS and he will act IMO. Fans support is everything to him.

NapaAddick said:

Croydon said:

clb74 said:

Let Bowyer have till Christmas.
What's half a season amongst friends.
What's gutting for me if he does go is his managerial career at us would of always been under a cloud.
Give him a fresh season.

The success of Charlton should be absolutely paramount. You can't just gift a manager half a season on sentiment.

If we finish top 6 and lose in the play off final, then I'd keep him on. Anything short of top 6 and he's simply got to go. 

And replaced by.... whom? There are two parts to such a decision. Many seem to be saying "he has to go" with no plan of even knowledge of who would or could come here. This is not the EPL. Or even The Championship. If there were good managers in L1.... they would not be in L1. The pay down here sucks.

How does someone become a good manager if they never get the chance? David Moyes, Chris Wilder, Eddie Howe, Dean Smith. All managers who have managed in League 1, the last three in the last decade. Clearly if you had your way you would just have twenty managers chopping and changing Premier League sides. 

thenewbie said:

There's no point him going right now if whoever comes in at that point isn't a clear and immediate improvement straight away.

My own feelings are that TS already has a plan of some sort, what Bowyer's part in that (or Jackson's, or Gallen's) is remains to be seen. But his (seemingly uncharacteristic) lack of public commentary suggests to me that forums and fan discussion are not going to be decisive. 

How can you know that though? 

You would hope TS is a good enough business man to have people around him that would shortlist, interview and decide on any future manager in a thorough and insightful manner. We as fans can discuss or speculate because that’s what fans do, it’s what makes football so attractive, because we’ve been watching it long enough to convince ourselves that we know what we are talking about! 

addick1956 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

addick1956 said:

NapaAddick said:

Transfermarkt is not great with actual player values but is fairly good at relative values. They rank us as #6 in L1 in player values. And our net player values are a far, far, far cry from Ipswich, who appear to be "going for it." And millions behind other top 4 clubs. Also we have one of the smallest teams in the division, which can hardly be blamed on Lee. It seems by this data that we are only mildly under-performing our payroll. Club value points to 6th and we are 8th. Maybe the real problem is this is a crap league with crap players and crap money. Not sure there is some savior manager that we could get who can change that dynamic.

Perhaps we signed too many players after the cap because  of the embargo a d spent big on some wages ,hence smaller squad, due the the embargo and a cap we were the only ones truly trapped in big time .

Our squad size of 24 is 100% but that was limited to 25 by the cap.  I am not sure how anyone else has got a significantly higher one. 

Someone says we have a significantly smaller squad though. 

When the transfer window shut you were allowed 25 players in your squad.  You could have unlimited U23s on your pay roll, but you couldn't include them in your squad.

Hence Lapslie wasn't in our squad so didn't count towards the wage cap, but Oztumer did. (source Bowyer) 

We had 25, right up to the limit, both in terms of numbers and wages, until Maddison left freeing up a space and wages at the last minute.  Hence we could have signed a free agent. (source Gallen).

I added it up for the injury thread a few weeks ago, I think we have used 33 players.  The current 24, Maddison, Williams, Levitt, Smyth, Bonne, Bogle, Doughty plus Barker and Henry (who don't count towards anything as they are u18s).

I am not sure how Hull can possibly have a 30 plus man squad, unless they have picked 5 or 6 of their u23s since the cap was abolished? 

How difficult is this?

We cling to the hope that we might make the Play-Offs (we probably won't).

We cling to the hope that, if we make the Play-Offs (which we probably won't), then we will win them (we probably won't).

We cling to the hope that Bowyer will build a superteam once he has infinite cash to spend (he probably won't).

We cling to the hope that Bowyer is the man to deliver Sandgaard's vision of European football in seven six years (he probably isn't).

Some have asked 'why sack Bowyer now?'.

Answer:  So that the new guy gets a flying start at the essential promotion that we need next season.

Cafc43v3r said:

NapaAddick said:

Cafc43v3r said:

NapaAddick said:

LittleAddick said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

A question to the guys wanting Bowyer out.

When the next manager comes in, if he was producing poor performances and results after fifteen games would you want him sacked?

No, bowyer has had 3 years

Yes but just 4 months of that with a decent owner.

At the same time he probably had 15 of the highest played 20 players in the squads for the last 4 games.  I know your a fan of soccernomics and the associated stats.

Until we loaned out Maddison we were right on the wage cap.  If we only signed players no one else wanted how comes we had to pay them so much? 

We haven't had to resort to playing a load of kids.

We signed 2 players for a fee in January, hardly anyone else in league 1 did.

Has it been ideal circumstances?  Of course it hasn't.  But most league 1 managers would have bitten your hand off to have Amos, Pearce, Oshilaja, Purrington, Morgan, JFC, Gilbey, Pratley, Chuks, Washington, Doughty, Williams, Bonne and Phillips as the core of a squad.  That's what we had when the take over was done. 

This is a good argument against his results. I wonder about the payroll advantage we really have given 90% of our players exist under a salary cap that equalized payroll. I've been trying to find comparitive payroll numbers in L1 for 2020-21 and so far am unable.

You can't even get conclusive numbers for last season yet, although they will be dropping any time now.

Our wage bill was 10 million, 2 years ago, and Gallen said if was about 3 or 4 million less now.  That would put us currently in the same ball park as Luton and Barnsley the year we got promoted.

Now you could make an argument that the players aren't worth what we pay them but I don't think there is a player at the club that either wasn't signed, or had a new contract, under Bowyer/Gallen. 

Apples and pears comparison. The £10m figure includes all staff including the academy and non-football staff (maybe 100 people). Gallen will only count the first team squad.