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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
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Henry Irving said:FAVADDICK said:The clubs being used again by certain players. Then you get this rubbish that they want to all stay !!! NO!! they want to play us off and fall back on us if no one else wants them, there just trying to keep us sweet. Just get rid of them and start again with players that actually want to be here !!!
So unrealistic.
They are professional footballers, it's their livelihood. Of course they look around to see what else is on offer and compare that with our offer.
Just as players at other clubs last season are looking at what we've offered and are deciding whether to stay with the other club or join us.
If they join is it because they "want to be here" and they are fulfilling their life's ambition of playing for Charlton in league 1 or because we made the best offer? I think we all know the answer.
They are not fans, it's a job to them. Yes, once they have signed I expect them to show loyalty and commitment to the club and team and they have and will but let's not get high and mighty about this when other players who have been let go are described by fans demanding loyalty as "deadwood", "shit", "not good enough" etc etc.
This is why there is no point Adkins or anyone else at the club trying to explain to some fans what is happening.
WIOTOS
Having said that, I dont get the delay with Watson.2 -
cafcfan1990 said:Henry Irving said:FAVADDICK said:The clubs being used again by certain players. Then you get this rubbish that they want to all stay !!! NO!! they want to play us off and fall back on us if no one else wants them, there just trying to keep us sweet. Just get rid of them and start again with players that actually want to be here !!!
So unrealistic.
They are professional footballers, it's their livelihood. Of course they look around to see what else is on offer and compare that with our offer.
Just as players at other clubs last season are looking at what we've offered and are deciding whether to stay with the other club or join us.
If they join is it because they "want to be here" and they are fulfilling their life's ambition of playing for Charlton in league 1 or because we made the best offer? I think we all know the answer.
They are not fans, it's a job to them. Yes, once they have signed I expect them to show loyalty and commitment to the club and team and they have and will but let's not get high and mighty about this when other players who have been let go are described by fans demanding loyalty as "deadwood", "shit", "not good enough" etc etc.
This is why there is no point Adkins or anyone else at the club trying to explain to some fans what is happening.
WIOTOS
Having said that, I dont get the delay with Watson.
He isn't going to get a pay rise, why would he accept a pay cut. He won't find another club on anywhere near the money he is on here that is close enough to his house.0 -
cafcfan1990 said:Henry Irving said:FAVADDICK said:The clubs being used again by certain players. Then you get this rubbish that they want to all stay !!! NO!! they want to play us off and fall back on us if no one else wants them, there just trying to keep us sweet. Just get rid of them and start again with players that actually want to be here !!!
So unrealistic.
They are professional footballers, it's their livelihood. Of course they look around to see what else is on offer and compare that with our offer.
Just as players at other clubs last season are looking at what we've offered and are deciding whether to stay with the other club or join us.
If they join is it because they "want to be here" and they are fulfilling their life's ambition of playing for Charlton in league 1 or because we made the best offer? I think we all know the answer.
They are not fans, it's a job to them. Yes, once they have signed I expect them to show loyalty and commitment to the club and team and they have and will but let's not get high and mighty about this when other players who have been let go are described by fans demanding loyalty as "deadwood", "shit", "not good enough" etc etc.
This is why there is no point Adkins or anyone else at the club trying to explain to some fans what is happening.
WIOTOS
Having said that, I dont get the delay with Watson.7 -
ForeverAddickted said:Of course the majority are probably going to want more than what they're on.
Who doesnt want a payrise each year?
Its just up to Sandgaard whether they deserve it or not
Watson and Matthews at the very least will probably want more as they signed under a Salary Cap
In the case of Watson, I assume it's down to whether he takes up the option, rather than us offering him a new deal?0 -
FAVADDICK said:thenewbie said:FAVADDICK said:The clubs being used again by certain players. Then you get this rubbish that they want to all stay !!! NO!! they want to play us off and fall back on us if no one else wants them, there just trying to keep us sweet. Just get rid of them and start again with players that actually want to be here !!!
And it's not like this stops us doing other work while we wait either. We can be talking to multiple targets at the same time - within and without.1 -
It notice a direct correlation in life, of how busy I am and how interested I am in our 'early' signings.1
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bugger accidentally deleted this when trying to edit…
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killerandflash said:ForeverAddickted said:Of course the majority are probably going to want more than what they're on.
Who doesnt want a payrise each year?
Its just up to Sandgaard whether they deserve it or not
Watson and Matthews at the very least will probably want more as they signed under a Salary Cap
In the case of Watson, I assume it's down to whether he takes up the option, rather than us offering him a new deal?
But yeah its quite possible that us and a lot of clubs are trying to recover from the COVID situation where there has been no fan revenue, just look at how small the current Portsmouth squad is... There wont be a Salary Cap anymore, but it doesnt mean that owners across the EFL arent going to turn around and say, look the silly sort of wages you wanted, that cant happen now because our focus is on keeping the club going long term.
As Doucher said, its brinkmanship, it'll be a case of who blinks first, and I bet a lot of clubs will start blinking the closer we get to the season - Equally if we can start to bring in players that'll make our out of contract players think again, it'll be them that'll be blinking.1 - Sponsored links:
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I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?3 -
Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
If we brought in MacGillivray we can either terminate negotiations with Amos, or we can turn around and say, you take our offer or you can take one of the offers that you were stalling for, as we'd then be in the stronger position with him.
Guess we equally dont want to say to Amos, sign or bugger off now, without using getting replacement, just in case we cant get that cover.
We've then cut our nose off to spite our face as the saying goes0 -
FAVADDICK said:thenewbie said:FAVADDICK said:The clubs being used again by certain players. Then you get this rubbish that they want to all stay !!! NO!! they want to play us off and fall back on us if no one else wants them, there just trying to keep us sweet. Just get rid of them and start again with players that actually want to be here !!!
I think you are missing the point.
It is brinkmanship. Take Matthews as an example, hypothetically let's say he is saying "I want to stay but not going to sign straight away as I want to see if there are better wages on offer elsewhere first, I like Charlton but if someone wants to pay me double I am off". Do you really think our recruitment team just sit around waiting on him? They will be out talking to other RBs they think could do the job and if they find one equal or better who wants to join for the money we have allocated for a RB they will sign them and pull Matthews contract offer.
The players will look after themselves and the club will do the same, ultimately either party may lose out. That's the players risk in waiting. It happens at every club.
To withdraw the offer now before signing a replacement would make no sense at all and runs the risk that someone like Matthews ends up taking a lower amount elsewhere and would have stayed and we end up with someone less good - that would be the idiotic thing to do.3 -
Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?3 -
Also interesting that Cawley mentions we are still Stockley’s preferred choice. Suggests his agent is trying to bump up asking price by leaking the Pompey interest.15
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Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?
If you play x number of games you are entitled to an extra year on a, as yet undecided, wage. That's just a new contract isn't it?
I like Amos and I hope he stays but even if we lost out on a couple of "1st choices" there are dozens of keepers available, of the necessary standard, all the time. It's probably the easiest position, for a club our size to fill.
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thenewbie said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?
Saying that I can't see JP and JFC not staying and we're likely lumbered with Watson so we're really talking Amos, Matthews and Chuks0 -
Even if these, and Stockley, all sign we still need 7 or 8 more. It's not like we are just sitting on our hands waiting.
We need 2 center backs, 2 center mids, 2 wingers and a left back if everyone else stays, that's probably what is being worked on.4 -
Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?
We offer X, the agent asks for a bit more, we say yes or no or we'll give you a little bit more but not as much as you're asking for and all the while we are looking over our shoulders to see who else is out there who is better/cheaper/available.
Maybe we'll bollox up the whole window and I'll be starting the first game.
Maybe they will play a binder and get every player they want at the lowest possible price
Or more likely they will get some players but miss out on others, get some deals done before pre-season training and others when the agent/player blinks late on (like Matthews in the last two seasons) and then get some Prem loans in to top up our squad but only when the prem clubs have done their business.
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J BLOCK said:Expected more by now to be honest. Not hollow sound bites.
If they wanted to sign, they would have done.
What I want to hear in soundbites, is that they have signed despite offers elsewhere at higher wages. I've stayed in my job despite being offered 15% more elsewhere doing pretty much the same job. I like my colleagues and the set up so why move. I get it that footballers careers are short and their agents are just trying to Squeeze every penny out of clubs, but surely a happy place is worth it albeit on less money. Look at Taylor. He's undoubtedly on better money at Forest, but I wonder if he skipped into training every day the same way he did at Sparrows Lane.2 - Sponsored links:
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Henry Irving said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
None of the out of contract players are indispensable, maybe Chuks but there's loads of Ben Amos's and Adam Matthews type players out there.
What would be the worst is say we wait for Amos for another 4 weeks but he decides to sit on Preston's bench and in the meantime the already superior Pompey keeper signs for Sunderland. Then it will have affected us as all the best replacements will have gone.
I saw Watson was on £5k a week... he won't get that anywhere else based on last season. I wonder if the option entitles him to another year but maybe the wage and other details are TBC... maybe that's why he hasn't signed as we've offered him less?
We're not literally waiting doing nothing, that's not how the business works. Look at the January window where we had about four or five wingers linked in one day, and I would be very surprised if we hadn't had serious chats with every one of them.3 -
ForeverAddickted said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
If we brought in MacGillivray we can either terminate negotiations with Amos, or we can turn around and say, you take our offer or you can take one of the offers that you were stalling for, as we'd then be in the stronger position with him.
Guess we equally dont want to say to Amos, sign or bugger off now, without using getting replacement, just in case we cant get that cover.
We've then cut our nose off to spite our face as the saying goesI’ve possibly remembered this incorrectly, but it was something alone these lines.0 -
stoneroses19 said:ForeverAddickted said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
If we brought in MacGillivray we can either terminate negotiations with Amos, or we can turn around and say, you take our offer or you can take one of the offers that you were stalling for, as we'd then be in the stronger position with him.
Guess we equally dont want to say to Amos, sign or bugger off now, without using getting replacement, just in case we cant get that cover.
We've then cut our nose off to spite our face as the saying goesI’ve possibly remembered this incorrectly, but it was something alone these lines.1 -
stoneroses19 said:ForeverAddickted said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
If we brought in MacGillivray we can either terminate negotiations with Amos, or we can turn around and say, you take our offer or you can take one of the offers that you were stalling for, as we'd then be in the stronger position with him.
Guess we equally dont want to say to Amos, sign or bugger off now, without using getting replacement, just in case we cant get that cover.
We've then cut our nose off to spite our face as the saying goesI’ve possibly remembered this incorrectly, but it was something alone these lines.“I’ve been really impressed with Ben Amos, I must admit. I want Ben to stay. If that happens then Ashley will be looking to go out on loan. There needs to be a clear plan and pathway for players, so that we extract every ounce of potential out of them – for their benefit and our benefit.
“If Ben goes to Real Madrid then I’ve got no qualms about playing Ashley.”
I wonder if the "no qualms" bit is he'll play Ashley, provided we dont get a good enough replacement for Amos. In which case I imagine that we'll send Ashley on loan with Nathan Harness as the bench Goalkeeper, if Amos goes with a "sub-standard" replacement coming in, then Ashley will compete with them for the No.1 slot.
Its a shame that Ashley is likely to head to the Olympics - Australia's first game is 22nd July so its doubtful he'll be here for much of pre-season1 -
addick1956 said:All this supposition and not one rumour.0
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ForeverAddickted said:stoneroses19 said:ForeverAddickted said:Maccn05 said:I get both sides of the argument here but at what point do we say enough is enough? Gallen to players - "You've said you want to sign, it's been 4 weeks and now we move on"
If we brought in MacGillivray we can either terminate negotiations with Amos, or we can turn around and say, you take our offer or you can take one of the offers that you were stalling for, as we'd then be in the stronger position with him.
Guess we equally dont want to say to Amos, sign or bugger off now, without using getting replacement, just in case we cant get that cover.
We've then cut our nose off to spite our face as the saying goesI’ve possibly remembered this incorrectly, but it was something alone these lines.“I’ve been really impressed with Ben Amos, I must admit. I want Ben to stay. If that happens then Ashley will be looking to go out on loan. There needs to be a clear plan and pathway for players, so that we extract every ounce of potential out of them – for their benefit and our benefit.
“If Ben goes to Real Madrid then I’ve got no qualms about playing Ashley.”
I wonder if the "no qualms" bit is he'll play Ashley, provided we dont get a good enough replacement for Amos. In which case I imagine that we'll send Ashley on loan with Nathan Harness as the bench Goalkeeper, if Amos goes then Ashley will compete for the No.1 slot with the replacement.1 -
RedRobin said:Also interesting that Cawley mentions we are still Stockley’s preferred choice. Suggests his agent is trying to bump up asking price by leaking the Pompey interest.5
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I think the hard reality of this that we are just not rushing, I guess we are waiting which if any of the out of contract players sign, then that will have a knock on effect. I understand why people get frustrated because as fans we all want a load of new players and we want them yesterday but I do trust the likes of Gallen and Roddy to deliver.
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Interesting that the word “data” is being used so much in interviews regarding new signings. Surely every club in the land relies heavily on data to find and recruit players?
It may suggest we are looking in markets outside our immediate reach (Championship & League 2), similar to Brentford’s scouting of Ligue 23 -
I don’t trust Roddy… he’s done nothing to earn that trust so far. Do we know anything that’s be delivered? Maybe he has but he’s been invisible apart from the rumours of not like Bow
Gallen on the other hand I trust implicitly.0
This discussion has been closed.