England v Italy - THE FINAL - Match Thread

Doesn't the manager pick the first 5, then up to whose left if it goes any further.

North Lower Neil said:

ValleyGary said:

Why the fuck are we letting Rashford take a pen, he’s been shit for 7 months. And Saka 18 years old, what a joke. 

The saving grace is that this won’t be a one off this with team.

He's good at penalties.  Normally, obviously.

Didn't have an issue with Rashford, made sense, but Sancho and Saka, it's a lot of pressure on young guys who don't normally take them.

@ValleyGary   Thank you for being able to be critical when it can be levelled.    2 minutes in a game, with no touch of the ball is very, very difficult to then step up and smash home a penalty.

Saka was poor when he came on.  I think it is unfair to expect him to take number 5.  I'd rather see Pickford step up.

One sub versus four for them.  Mancini changed things.   Southgate was afraid to make changes until they scored. 

We have to just be a little more positive and believe.

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Rothko said:

But ya know, those who wanted to slag off Southgate have a nice slab of meat to jump on like mange ridden hyenas 

You can really be a twisted young man at times....

Not really, just have an expansive vocabulary, there are some already wanting to moan.

Grealish for example, is no where near the pens for Villa, but people are piling in on him. The three that didn't convert are good penalty takers, even Jorginho didn't score, and he never misses 

Now ask Alexa if football's coming home.

FFS we lost on pens.They weren’t great for sure, but let’s dig the takers out. All of us on here could have taken a better one right?

AFKABartram said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Its a harsh moment for Rashford as his penalty wasnt even saved

Two inches to the right and it goes in

But it didn’t though mate. The one thing you ensure is you hit the target. I’m not slating him, it’s football. But they were poor pens and I hate those psychology penalties like his, Jorginho, Lyle Taylor etc as you increase the tension and look more silly when it goes wrong. 

I’m more gutted we didn’t have a proper go at the game. 

But we’ve been having a go at teams for 55 years and never got as close as this. A semi final and a final in back to back tournaments. Just feel like Southgate and team deserve a bit more trust to do it their way. Because it’s clearly working better than anything we’ve tried in the past.

lancashire lad said:

ah well Welling on Tuesday

Best comment of the night.

We'll be there.

The frustrating thing is Rashford is probably our best penalty taker. Would have preferred him to take one of his standard ones than a Lyle Tayloresque effort. Pickford is a great penalty keeper but missing three gave him no chance.

Laddick01 said:

Fumbluff said:

Laddick01 said:

Raheem Sterling has something to answer to. 

If h s declined a pen I don’t want to see him in and England shirt ever again. 

We’re all upset mate but that’s a fucking stupid post

I’ll be honest that post does sound stupid. I just can’t understand how
hes not ahead of Sancho in pen responsibilities. 

Sancho takes them regularly, Sterling I don't think is in the top 11 for City

MuttleyCAFC said:

The frustrating thing is Rashford is probably our best penalty taker. Would have preferred him to take one of his standard ones than a Lyle Tayloresque effort. Pickford is a great penalty keeper but missing three gave him no chance.

Missing two and then relying on him to save against Jorginho was cruel enough... He did not deserve to lose

NapaAddick said:

My grades...

Pickford 8.0: good save in the second half, fully did his job in penalties
Stones: 5.5: neither good nor bad
Maguire 7.0: not good with ball but good defense and made his pen
Walker: 6.0: did his job
Rice: 8.0: immense
Phillips 6.0: did his job mostly
Shaw: 8.5 MOM for England
Trippier 5.0: barely noticed
Kane 6.5: made his pen, was quite physical but got no chances
Mount: 5.0 not his best match
Sterling 2.5: an embarrassment with his pratfalls

subs

Grealish: 5.5... should have been brought on 20 min earlier
Saka: NA: worst player of the match per minute played
Rashford NA blew it
Henderson NA stunk
Sancho NA should not have been brought on

Southgate: 3.5 bad time for his worst night as manager in this tourney
Ref: 7.0 actually glad he let em play and did not fall for all the pratfalls.

No mate, I watched this stone cold sober. We were beaten by a very good team and we took them all the way. Their tactics, skill and drive nullified anything we did after the first 30 minutes and from there most of the game we only had scraps. 
They all played their part both sides and the officials. Good final.

Southbank said:

Mancini's subs changed the game, Southgate's did not. So much for tactical nous. Italy were the better team and we allowed them to play their game by keeping our attacking players on the bench until it was too late. But Mourinho/Southgate will soldier on I am sure.

A quick check shows you've been quiet recently on England and then suddenly post after we lose... funny that.

The problem with the pens is there’s not a lot of obvious players to take them, and everyone in the squad is young. Our experienced players shouldn’t go near a pen and then all you’ve got left is youth. Do you bring on Rashford or let Kyle Walker step up? People still go on about how in 96 we had Les Ferdinand and Robbie Fowler on the bench but we let Southgate take one. It’s so easy to judge with hindsight on penalties but in the end it comes down to luck and who holds their nerve on the night and unfortunately our young players did not. It’s still a fantastic tournament and it’s still progress. We took an Italy team that haven’t lost in 30 odd games to penalties in the final, there’s no part of that that wouldn’t have seemed like a fever dream just a couple of years ago. This was a fantastic tournament and we have a great team and a great manager and there’s more to come 

charltonkeston said:

NapaAddick said:

My grades...

Pickford 8.0: good save in the second half, fully did his job in penalties
Stones: 5.5: neither good nor bad
Maguire 7.0: not good with ball but good defense and made his pen
Walker: 6.0: did his job
Rice: 8.0: immense
Phillips 6.0: did his job mostly
Shaw: 8.5 MOM for England
Trippier 5.0: barely noticed
Kane 6.5: made his pen, was quite physical but got no chances
Mount: 5.0 not his best match
Sterling 2.5: an embarrassment with his pratfalls

subs

Grealish: 5.5... should have been brought on 20 min earlier
Saka: NA: worst player of the match per minute played
Rashford NA blew it
Henderson NA stunk
Sancho NA should not have been brought on

Southgate: 3.5 bad time for his worst night as manager in this tourney
Ref: 7.0 actually glad he let em play and did not fall for all the pratfalls.

No mate, I watched this stone cold sober. We were beaten by a very good team and we took them all the way. Their tactics, skill and drive nullified anything we did after the first 30 minutes and from there most of the game we only had scraps. 
They all played their part both sides and the officials. Good final.

Fair take and you could be right... but England had em in shock and will still attacking at minute 20 and took their foot off the gas. Add in poor substitutes and questionable penalty choices and it seems like England could have done far better tonight. Italy was the better team but England had control and lost it. That's how it looked from here.