Out of curiosity... If Rashford missed because he wasn't on for long enough
Did Mbappe miss because he was on the pitch for too long?
Its a percentages game.
Rashford coming on for 2 mins tops lowers the chance of him scoring.
I guarantee no one that watched Rashford during that walk up and penalty stance thought he was scoring. He stood there for so long after the ref blew the whistle before he took it.
Which is exactly what they are trained to do. The ref blows his whistle and you take it in your own time. I would have thought someone with your expertise in this area would be upto date with the latest psychology and training in penalties.
Just want to say welcome back to the told-you-so brigade. You've got your evening to celebrate and dine out on.
Because we lost the blame game starts, not sure that’s warranted, we played so well throughout the tournament. There’s a lot to be proud of. Let’s not spoil it, this team and manager did really well, onwards and upwards, World Cup next year!
Italy are a very good team and arguably the best in the tournament, but Southgate's game management can be questioned. From around the 30th minute they completely took control of the game, and we looked really ordinary for a long period where Italy took complete control, and the goal was only a matter of time, yet we made no changes. We looked a really tired side, yet made only 2 subs in normal time when you are allowed 5.
And even in extra time, when we had FOUR subs left we only made one (Grealish) to try and affect the game, and even then 8 minutes into extra time.
It's baffling why you'd leave Sterling on for the full 120 minutes if he's not taking a penalty, why not give Sancho 20 minutes in his place.
As for the penalty subs, that was asking an awful lot of the players, especially Rashford who's completely out of form.
Out of curiosity... If Rashford missed because he wasn't on for long enough
Did Mbappe miss because he was on the pitch for too long?
Its a percentages game.
Rashford coming on for 2 mins tops lowers the chance of him scoring.
I guarantee no one that watched Rashford during that walk up and penalty stance thought he was scoring. He stood there for so long after the ref blew the whistle before he took it.
What you have described is nerves. Do you think he wouldn’t have had any if he’d had more time on the pitch? What do you suggest, that we should have not brought him on and had Kyle Walker take it instead? Or should we have brought Rashford on at 90 mins despite him being horribly out of form? Perhaps we should have started him so he was really, really ready to take the pen. It’s just nonsense that he hadn’t had enough time on the pitch, he actually did great briefly at right back when called upon, he just froze in the moment and that’s a shame. There’s no magic alternate timeline where he gets 15 mins and wins us the Euros I’m afraid, because that’s just silly
We deserved to lose and tonight showed the limitations of the team and the manager. As with the World Cup we were lucky with the draw and when we played a half decent team we came up short.
Won't get a better chance to win a tournament for a long time.
I will never understand how Sterling was not ahead of Sancho.
For the millionth time, because he’s shit at them. He’s taken 5 penalties in his career and missed 3. City can’t buy a penalty goal and he still doesn’t get near them. Sancho has scored 10 pens in his career and missed 1.
Yet I doubt he could’ve take. A worse pen than Sancho.
Great. So just get that time machine that tells you that Sancho is going to take a bad pen and we’re all sorted then. You pick the best penalty takers and hope they score, unless you are literally a wizard who can see the future.
Because we lost the blame game starts, not sure that’s warranted, we played so well throughout the tournament. There’s a lot to be proud of. Let’s not spoil it, this team and manager did really well, onwards and upwards, World Cup next year!
I think we’re a good side that can play some nice football.
My problem is we haven’t learnt our lesson. We reverted back to the same way we played vs Croatia. All out defence once we score.
Can it work? Yes Will it win us a major tournament - probably not.
ive disrespected Southgate and I’ve looked like a mug. He’s far better than I’ve given him credit for. Lovely guy that’s galvanised the squad and inspired a nation.
Can he bring it home with such tactics - im not sure at all
Watching us park the bus for 45 mins today I knew there was only one outcome.
That Rashford miss was the crucial one, as it changed the mindset completely of the shootout. He scores that and Italy are 3-2 down, with massive pressure on their next taker
Instead Sancho steps up with us 3-2 down, knowing he has to score to keep us level
I was surprised FIFA or whoever didn't continue with the ABBA experiment, as it would be a fairer system than one team always going first
I will never understand how Sterling was not ahead of Sancho.
For the millionth time, because he’s shit at them. He’s taken 5 penalties in his career and missed 3. City can’t buy a penalty goal and he still doesn’t get near them. Sancho has scored 10 pens in his career and missed 1.
Yet I doubt he could’ve take. A worse pen than Sancho.
Great. So just get that time machine that tells you that Sancho is going to take a bad pen and we’re all sorted then. You pick the best penalty takers and hope they score, unless you are literally a wizard who can see the future.
Love Sancho. Quality player.
I can’t emphasise how hard it was for him tonight. He’s been on for 2 minutes. Barely touched the ball. How is he expected to take a good pen? He’s coming in Cold.
I think it’s a poor selection. Sancho could’ve been on 20 mins earlier and it might’ve helped.
I have managed a team in a penalty shoot out, which we won. But the fact is, my management was to take a step back and tell the players to sort out the takers amongst themselves. Is that management? I went and sat with the parents and supporters in the stand and had a chat, to get out of the way.
As it turned out, our best taker on paper missed the goal by a mile and the player I thought to myself, what the hell is he doing taking one, scored a perfect penalty. We won that match because our keeper, my son, made a couple of brilliant saves. If your keeper saves two, you ought to win. That is the disappointing thing about today.
I would like us to think about one thing going forwards. That is losing the term, he was brave enough to take one. In the case of some players, I would prefer, he was brave enough not to take one. One thing you can not control is whether you fancy it or not in the moment.
Better team won. We could have done better with pens, keep em low or get your laces through it. Southgate’s done well and deserves to take this young team to the World Cup but he ain’t no messiah, showed some fallibility tonight.
We deserved to lose and tonight showed the limitations of the team and the manager. As with the World Cup we were lucky with the draw and when we played a half decent team we came up short.
Won't get a better chance to win a tournament for a long time.
I will be gracious and say the best team won, it hurts saying it but I'd rather lose to the better team than a blunder or dodgy decision. As for lucky and draws, it don't matter the best team does usually win. So we are the 2nd best team in Europe tonight. I know that's crap but it's progression. Sadly I think many will slate Southgate over the next few days and his interviews after the match don't make me think he will be the manager for the World Cup.
Mancini's subs changed the game, Southgate's did not. So much for tactical nous. Italy were the better team and we allowed them to play their game by keeping our attacking players on the bench until it was too late. But Mourinho/Southgate will soldier on I am sure.
A quick check shows you've been quiet recently on England and then suddenly post after we lose... funny that.
Because I don't like Southgate's defensive approach to the game when we have so much attacking talent on the bench. We fluked the win against Denmark and sat back when ahead against Italy. I like winning, but you don't win trophies without taking chances. Southgate does not have that in his locker,. Maybe this will change him, maybe not.
You mean because you didn't have the bollocks to say anything when we were winning, but couldn't wait to start publicly masturbating when we lost?
I don't spend my whole life on this forum, but believe me I have been consistent throughout. I don't like Southgate's management style or Mourinho's, who he is like. Maybe you do and you don't care we have 8 defensive players on the pitch. I do
Again...Funny how you "don't spend your life on here" when we were winning. But find the time immediately when we lost.
Honestly, as a Scotland fan, I’m so, so sorry boys. You’ve backed your team throughout this tournament with crazy levels of atmosphere at Wembley and been a huge part of that historic success. I was at Wembley for one game to experience some of it.
You won’t want to hear this but England just dominated a tournament with a team that is about to catch fire. I don’t know if it’s the next tournament or the one after but you’re about to win a trophy, I see no other team with a commensurate chance.
I don't like his style either but would I have taken us to the final? I doubt it. He has done well but rightly or wrongly, I think we could be a bit more offensive minded with the players we have. It is hard not to think that if you believe it, right or wrong.
Anyway, let's look at this tournament as the time when we have broken through. Let's win the World Cup.
Why did the management team not react to the Italian dominance from 25mins in?
Mancini made.one simple change with and extra man in midfield and Southgate stood and watched while they passed round us.
Why is a 19 year old being left with the responsibility of taking the 5th penalty in a major tournament final? One of the senior pros has to step forward there.
Beyond frustrating. What was said at half time? We were on the back foot already and we got deeper and deeper. The second half was woeful.
Weird interview from Southgate at the end. Talking like he was out of a job or considering walking away.
The reason I was so super critical against the Danes was we never totally go for the Jugular. I understand about conserving energy but this was a fantastic opportunity to play on the front foot at the start of the second half. We started to half press which doesn't work too well against a team that haven't lost for 3 years. The marking for their goal was ragged with so many players in the wrong position as the Italians attacked the ball from the corner.
Losing on pens after your keeper makes the first save is so deflating. Knowing that the 3 lads will get so much abuse for missing the pens is also depressing after the hope and feel good factor of the last few weeks.
At international level against a top team with nous having only 34% of possession does matter because for 66% of time you are chasing the ball and trying to keep a shape.
19 shots for Italy against 6 for England is quite telling.
No shame in being runners up but it feel like we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because we stop doing what put as in the lead.
For the second night running I won't be able to sleep.
Gutted for England but it’s such a young team and I honestly think this might be the making of them. I would be very scared if I was any other major team.
Why did the management team not react to the Italian dominance from 25mins in?
Mancini made.one simple change with and extra man in midfield and Southgate stood and watched while they passed round us.
Why is a 19 year old being left with the responsibility of taking the 5th penalty in a major tournament final? One of the senior pros has to step forward there.
Beyond frustrating. What was said at half time? We were on the back foot already and we got deeper and deeper. The second half was woeful.
Weird interview from Southgate at the end. Talking like he was out of a job or considering walking away.
We were honestly lucky to make it to penalties. Italy deserved the win. We played not to lose and lost, which is gutting because I feel we have the better players but we don't have any sort of cohesive game plan except try not to concede and rely on individual ability to make something happen. Thank god we didn't play Spain as I'm not sure we would have even touched the ball.
I will never understand how Sterling was not ahead of Sancho.
For the millionth time, because he’s shit at them. He’s taken 5 penalties in his career and missed 3. City can’t buy a penalty goal and he still doesn’t get near them. Sancho has scored 10 pens in his career and missed 1.
Yet I doubt he could’ve take. A worse pen than Sancho.
Great. So just get that time machine that tells you that Sancho is going to take a bad pen and we’re all sorted then. You pick the best penalty takers and hope they score, unless you are literally a wizard who can see the future.
Love Sancho. Quality player.
I can’t emphasise how hard it was for him tonight. He’s been on for 2 minutes. Barely touched the ball. How is he expected to take a good pen? He’s coming in Cold.
I think it’s a poor selection. Sancho could’ve been on 20 mins earlier and it might’ve helped.
What, like Saka was? Why did he miss his then, he was all warmed up. Trying to find someone to blame when you don’t get what you want is childish. It was bad luck and it’s a shame
Perhaps we have the basis of a fantastic England team that will be on the up from this.
Come on England!
Still don't believe Southgate is the person t push us on....so much talent on the bench and he brought on Henderson who was woeful....and letting a 19 year old take the 5th penalty in the shootout....could destroy the boys career.
I will never understand how Sterling was not ahead of Sancho.
For the millionth time, because he’s shit at them. He’s taken 5 penalties in his career and missed 3. City can’t buy a penalty goal and he still doesn’t get near them. Sancho has scored 10 pens in his career and missed 1.
Yet I doubt he could’ve take. A worse pen than Sancho.
Great. So just get that time machine that tells you that Sancho is going to take a bad pen and we’re all sorted then. You pick the best penalty takers and hope they score, unless you are literally a wizard who can see the future.
Love Sancho. Quality player.
I can’t emphasise how hard it was for him tonight. He’s been on for 2 minutes. Barely touched the ball. How is he expected to take a good pen? He’s coming in Cold.
I think it’s a poor selection. Sancho could’ve been on 20 mins earlier and it might’ve helped.
What, like Saka was? Why did he miss his then, he was all warmed up. Trying to find someone to blame when you don’t get what you want is childish. It was bad luck and it’s a shame
How many pens has Saka taken in his career?
It’s so hard for a player to come on and strike a pen clean. Confidence comes with game time.
In all honesty if I was Sancho I’d be nervous as fuck. My manager has played me for 70 mins all tournament and now wants me to put away a pen in the final after no warm up. That’s a hard spot.
Love the team, hate the way we decided it. Let the players that have seen. Lot of the ball take the pens
Comments
Just want to say welcome back to the told-you-so brigade. You've got your evening to celebrate and dine out on.
And even in extra time, when we had FOUR subs left we only made one (Grealish) to try and affect the game, and even then 8 minutes into extra time.
It's baffling why you'd leave Sterling on for the full 120 minutes if he's not taking a penalty, why not give Sancho 20 minutes in his place.
As for the penalty subs, that was asking an awful lot of the players, especially Rashford who's completely out of form.
Won't get a better chance to win a tournament for a long time.
Southgate is brilliant and this is the best England team I have ever seen. Thank you for an amazing month.
way we played vs Croatia. All out defence once we score.
Will it win us a major tournament - probably not.
ive disrespected Southgate and I’ve looked like a mug. He’s far better than I’ve given him credit for. Lovely guy that’s galvanised the squad and inspired a nation.
Watching us park the bus for 45 mins today I knew there was only one outcome.
Instead Sancho steps up with us 3-2 down, knowing he has to score to keep us level
I was surprised FIFA or whoever didn't continue with the ABBA experiment, as it would be a fairer system than one team always going first
I can’t emphasise how hard it was for him tonight. He’s been on for 2 minutes. Barely touched the ball. How is he expected to take a good pen? He’s coming in Cold.
As it turned out, our best taker on paper missed the goal by a mile and the player I thought to myself, what the hell is he doing taking one, scored a perfect penalty. We won that match because our keeper, my son, made a couple of brilliant saves. If your keeper saves two, you ought to win. That is the disappointing thing about today.
I would like us to think about one thing going forwards. That is losing the term, he was brave enough to take one. In the case of some players, I would prefer, he was brave enough not to take one. One thing you can not control is whether you fancy it or not in the moment.
As for lucky and draws, it don't matter the best team does usually win. So we are the 2nd best team in Europe tonight. I know that's crap but it's progression. Sadly I think many will slate Southgate over the next few days and his interviews after the match don't make me think he will be the manager for the World Cup.
Anyway, let's look at this tournament as the time when we have broken through. Let's win the World Cup.
Losing on pens after your keeper makes the first save is so deflating. Knowing that the 3 lads will get so much abuse for missing the pens is also depressing after the hope and feel good factor of the last few weeks.
At international level against a top team with nous having only 34% of possession does matter because for 66% of time you are chasing the ball and trying to keep a shape.
19 shots for Italy against 6 for England is quite telling.
No shame in being runners up but it feel like we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because we stop doing what put as in the lead.
For the second night running I won't be able to sleep.
Perhaps we were lucky it went to ET.
Perhaps we were lucky it went to pens.
Perhaps we have the basis of a fantastic England team that will be on the up from this.
Come on England!
How can I shut my eyes when I see Rashford, Sancho and Saka making such feeble efforts.
Feel sorry for the 55 and overs who may have lost their last chance of success.
You think the guy that missed such a crucial penalty himself would
realise that.