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Post-match Thread: Sheffield Wednesday vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 13th August 2022
Comments
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Washington scored today for RotherhamRodneyCharltonTrotta said:Croydon said:
If that's true it's just fucking stupidity. It was like playing with 10 men at timesSDAddick said:Garner saying Stockley was under the weather today but tried to play through it.
Madness playing an ill player in that heat. Highlights lack of depth. Aneke an availability liability and Miles Leaburn can't have all that expectation put on him so soon.
Needed to replace Washington or should have kept him. Ridiculous decision and we're lacking. If Stockley gets injured we're very limited.4 -
He's not a Championship player though by all accounts. Ridiculous.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Washington scored today for RotherhamRodneyCharltonTrotta said:Croydon said:
If that's true it's just fucking stupidity. It was like playing with 10 men at timesSDAddick said:Garner saying Stockley was under the weather today but tried to play through it.
Madness playing an ill player in that heat. Highlights lack of depth. Aneke an availability liability and Miles Leaburn can't have all that expectation put on him so soon.
Needed to replace Washington or should have kept him. Ridiculous decision and we're lacking. If Stockley gets injured we're very limited.13 -
What was the excuse for Accrington and Derby?HongCharltonKong said:Ben Garner has just said Stockley under the weather1 -
Disappointing to lose but i'm not too disheartened. We have a new manager, a few new players and a completely new style of play and for most of the game we outplayed a side i'd expect to be in or around the promotion places.
Striker issue does need resolving though, as it's becoming more obvious with every game that Stockley doesn't fit the way Garner wants to play.
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Good job Aneke only had a minor knock after Accrington........Oh wait a minute!1
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Is there actually an underlying health issue with Aneke or is he just incredibly injury prone?MuttleyCAFC said:Good job Aneke only had a minor knock after Accrington........Oh wait a minute!
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No, you really don't. In order to win promotion you need to win your home games and collect plenty of points away. You don't need to win away at the pre-season favourites on the third match day.blackpool72 said:In order to win promotion you have to win games like this.
Seriously we were the better team and lost.
C***S
Next 2 games are the ones we need the wins from.17 -
We all know we needed two new strikers at start of the season with Washinhton leaving.
Now with two weeks to the end of the transfer window what kind of striker can you now expect to sign. I would guess the cast off failures of other teams.
Also people there saying players will be better when fitter. That is want comes of signing players I August who have have had little to no preseason.0 -
Disappointing but as others have said, I fear Ben got this wrong today. We were clearly tiring and he should have got his last subs on quicker.
A few random thoughts.
- I like Stockley both as a player and as a bloke. But it must be obvious to a blind man that, ill or not, he is going to struggle to play effectively in this formation.
- Bring Leaburn on for 10 or so minutes at the end but he is nowhere ready to start.
- If an offer comes in for Kirk, take it. Sometimes players just don't succeed at a club and him and us is one of those fits.
- Continue to be less than impressed with Fraser. What's he done since he joined us? Looks lightweight and drifts in and out of the game. He's been Charltonised alright.
- On a positive note, Sessegnon looks absolute class. Let's hope we can keep him fit and Fulham don't recall him at Christmas.
- And I like Wollocott. He's going to be a good keeper for us.10 - Sponsored links:
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Post game, and Minto, brownie and curbs all said we need a striker, I thought they skirted around the fact they they probably feel JS isn't the man to leads the line. But that's the impression I got.5
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Disappointing result. Largely heartening performance. I only watched on a phone but it seemed to me that the ref gave them a lot of nothing 'fouls' whilst we got nothing. Is that a fair assessment or am I just biased?4
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A lot of frustration on the match thread after they scored. Somewhat understandable. But we went to one of the better sides in the division who have impressive squad depth (strange to think Smith is injured) and a really good home record and we outplayed them for 70 minutes.
As with all of our performances this season, there are a lot of positives to take. Albie seems to improve every game. O'Connell looks very good on the ball and a decent defender when not stretch and dragged out of position. Clare was excellent. Sess a solid defender and fun going forward. Dobbo back to doing Dobbo things, it's not sexy, but it's important. And CBT looks very good and an absolute nightmare to play against.
The hope when you play a possession based game is you can tire out the opposition with all the chasing they have to do. That did not happen today, obviously.
The big difference was substitutions. Garner got it wrong not taking off Fraser for Payne. I would have said the same about the Stockley sub--he gambled bringing on Leaburn--but it sounds like that one may have been forced by Stockley not feeling well. And then I also felt Garner got it wrong not bringing on McGrandles for Fraser earlier as well. That said, when McGrandles came on, I wished he hadn't. He has not looked fit or up to it this season. Very understandable, slightly late start to pre-season and then a concussion, so he's still looking for his first 90 minutes, and he shouldn't be judged on what we've seen so far.
But that then begs the question: why was he on the bench when you have Gilbey and JFC? I know there's something going on with JFC. I'm not clear as to what, but people who seem ITK on the Transfer thread have indicated that he's not going to play in the league for a bit. But Gilbey, for all of his flaws, offers pace and energy. Central midfield is where we have the most depth and quality in this squad. So to see us overrun in midfield with 15 minutes left, without Gilbey and JFC on the bench, with Payne having to play wide, and with McGrandles not looking fit, is really frustrating.
On the flip side, Moore got his subs right and at the right times. As I mentioned on the match thread, when you can bring on Gregory, Byers, and Sow, instead of Leaburn, DJ, Clayden, and an unfit McGrandles, it's a lot easier to get your subs right.
Lastly, squad depth is clearly an issue in certain areas. Rak-Sakyi is going to help that both in providing more wide attacking options, as well as making it so that Payne can hopefully play more centrally. But we need a left footed defender, maybe two. And we need a center forward. As I mentioned on the match thread, that's far easier said than done.
We have two good center forwards (when fit and played to their strengths) who we paid transfer fees for in Stockley and Aneke. The problem is, the system doesn't suit Stockley (though he has looked better in other games than he did today), and Chuks is never fit. But they're taking up spots and money. And that makes it so that we 1) have less money to offer a center forward, and 2) we don't have guaranteed football to offer a center forward. If Chuks and Stockley are fit and firing, we may not even be able to offer a new striker a regular place on the bench. So that basically rules out a decent loanee from a team higher up the pyramid. And it leaves us with someone out of favor and/or very raw (at which point we may just settle for Leaburn), or some sort of reclamation project.
So with those restrictions, we're trying to find a mobile, technically decent (at least), and hopefully goal scoring center forward. In League One. Where there are maybe a handful that fit that bill (and to be fair, we have one in Chuks). I just don't see how this situation resolves itself neatly. The problem here isn't limited to us needing to get in a center forward, the problem here is the lack of joined up thinking and recruitment over the last two windows have left us with very expensive forwards who can be quite good (both could still turn out to have good seasons, they're not hopeless at this level by any means), but who have issues with our system/playing regularly. That is a mistake of TS, Gallen, and MS's making. And I don't see how we improve the striker situation without undoing some of our past mistakes first.
That was a lot of focus on the negatives. The positive is I think we look better every game. And we played one of the best teams in the division away from home very close. They had one moment of quality that they converted and we didn't take our chances. Apart from the Sow header, how many difficult saves did JoJo make before they scored and we had to chase the game? So while some of our flaws were exposed, there should also be a lot of hope and excitement around this team as well. And we're not going to have to play Sheff Wed away from home again this season.15 -
We was in total control in the first half, so much so there looked to be only one winner.
Once CBT was blowing, Stockley wasn’t a 100 per cent, and the they started to get their tails up kicking towards the Kop you just knew they were going to nick one.
The match was exactly the same as against Derby
last week.
What was evident today, is that we need at least one striker as it is not right to rely on Leaburn whom has a tendency to drift out wide as this is his natural position, but he is some talent and we mustn’t burn him out.
Chucks has more break downs as the AA therefore he isn’t reliable, leaving Stockley as our only striker, and with his physical presence he is liable to get booked and get a suspension as well as the odd red card.
Bringing in a striker will have to be with a fee and not a loan as no club will let their player come to us too sit on the bench.2 -
It's not just a striker though is it
Our attacking midfielders consistently fluff their lines in front of goal and have done so for many seasons now.
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The boys in the studio summed it up well.
1) We need another striker
2) Our wide players need to anticipate crosses coming in from the other side, and get to the far post
3) Our No 10 in midfield needs to get closer to Stockley and needs to bust a gut to get into the box, as at the moment we don't have enough players in the box when we attack.
So far I've been very disappointed in Fraser, as of the 3 today he's surely the one who needs to be closer to Stockley with Dobson more of the defensive shield, and Morgan running from deeper. Kirk was disappointing today too, and replacing him with Payne rather than Payne replacing Fraser didn't really work, while at the moment it's too early in Leaburn's career to come in and lead the line6 -
Feels so good losing with a bit of class.
There's obviously negatives, Fraser and Kirk being two of them, but that is a different team we're watching there imo.8 -
Yeah I'm not convinced by Fraser as a 10 who will chip in with goals. I think the answer there is Payne, the problem is he doesn't seem to be fully fit yet, and when he is fit he's having to play out wide because we don't have quite enough talent in depth there. Rak-Sakyi does, I think, solve two problems in that regard: more quality and hopefully goal contributions out wide, along with freeing up Payne to play centrally.killerandflash said:The boys in the studio summed it up well.
1) We need another striker
2) Our wide players need to anticipate crosses coming in from the other side, and get to the far post
3) Our No 10 in midfield needs to get closer to Stockley and needs to bust a gut to get into the box, as at the moment we don't have enough players in the box when we attack.
So far I've been very disappointed in Fraser, as of the 3 today he's surely the one who needs to be closer to Stockley with Dobson more of the defensive shield, and Morgan running from deeper. Kirk was disappointing today too, and replacing him with Payne rather than Payne replacing Fraser didn't really work, while at the moment it's too early in Leaburn's career to come in and lead the line0 - Sponsored links:
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There are there are no points for effort and artistic performance in football. That was a good performance, not usually associated with us. However, the end result was typical Charlton.Stockley will not get to double figures in this set up, and Leaburn is pretty much Stockley but younger. Not keeping Washington is now looking a poor decision. A ball playing pacey striker is needed.1
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Asked the same question a couple of times last season myself but nobody seemed to know the answer. I think/assume there must be an underlying issue - can't be right that a professional athlete can't exert themselves physically beyond a very low thresholdse9addick said:
Is there actually an underlying health issue with Aneke or is he just incredibly injury prone?MuttleyCAFC said:Good job Aneke only had a minor knock after Accrington........Oh wait a minute!3 -
Totally agree about those two. Not sure how some can write Gilbey and F-C off so easily when neither of these two are producing anything for us on a consistent basis week after week.Gribbo said:Feels so good losing with a bit of class.
There's obviously negatives, Fraser and Kirk being two of them, but that is a different team we're watching there imo.1 -
This all day.RaplhMilne said:There are there are no points for effort and artistic performance in football. That was a good performance, not usually associated with us. However, the end result was typical Charlton.Stockley will not get to double figures in this set up, and Leaburn is pretty much Stockley but younger. Not keeping Washington is now looking a poor decision. A ball playing pacey striker is needed.
And even more bizarrely ,prior to that, signing Aneke on a 3.5 yr deal.
Football decisions being made by non-football people.11 -
Yeah, and this has always been the case with him going back to MK Dons. I understand that, if there is some sort of chronic issue, the club aren't necessarily going to broadcast it, both for the player's sake and also in case they need to sell him. I don't know that the severity of Solly's need injury(ies) was ever explicitly stated by the club over the years when it was a well known secret. I feel like persistent issue with Chuks' groin muscle have been alluded to at times, but I can't think of anything concrete that's been stated. But yeah, I can't think of another player who seems to have so many knocks and niggles that lead to such a long time out.kinveachyaddick said:
Asked the same question a couple of times last season myself but nobody seemed to know the answer. I think/assume there must be an underlying issue - can't be right that a professional athlete can't exert themselves physically beyond a very low thresholdse9addick said:
Is there actually an underlying health issue with Aneke or is he just incredibly injury prone?MuttleyCAFC said:Good job Aneke only had a minor knock after Accrington........Oh wait a minute!
It's different to someone like JFC, who has missed a lot of time through injury the last three years. But he has had two acute, severe injuries in tearing the ligaments in his knee twice. As far as I can remember, Chuks has never had something that clear and severe since coming to us.
I don't know. I thought it was okay business when we signed him, but we were playing with two up front and could have three strikers ahead of him to provide some cushioning. We now have Stockley ahead of him, who doesn't fit the system, and then Chuks, and then a not yet ready Leaburn behind him.2 -
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Bothse9addick said:
Is there actually an underlying health issue with Aneke or is he just incredibly injury prone?MuttleyCAFC said:Good job Aneke only had a minor knock after Accrington........Oh wait a minute!2 -
