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POST-MATCH THREAD: Reading vs Charlton Athletic: Saturday 10th February 2024 | KO 15:00
Comments
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I watched on stream yesterday and what I am struggling to fathom (and for the past couple of years now) is how we manage to turn decent players into duds. Look at our recruitment, on paper it has looked good: Ladapo who has scored double figures in this league for fun: Coventry such a highly rated youngster with experience of this league: gillesphey who starred for Plymouth in a promotion season: edun, a marauding wing back at this level who earned a move to the championship. The list goes on when you think about mcgrandles, gilbey, Fraser and so on, all poty worthy for pervious clubs and more than proven at this level.So this must run deeper than bad recruitment. There must be a toxicity at the club that cannot be broken, and I’m talking since before the latest owners came in. There seems to be a culture of failure. Is it due to standards? Training? Senior management? Is it the pressure of playing for a club like Charlton, still deemed in many peoples eyes as a ‘big club’ with a stadium far better than most in this league? Are players just coming for the money and don’t really care about performance and results? Is it the fan base getting on people’s backs early, creating panic and worry?We are in a rut and big time. I am hoping Nathan Jones is the man to sort this out and quickly, but to see that performance yesterday, knowing how important it was, in front of a new manager and with a sold out away end, is quite frankly disgusting.Anyway, onto Tuesday and let’s hope they get a rocket up their arse. Dropping to league 2 always seemed laughable but not anymore.26
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Totally agree.Champs85 said:I watched on stream yesterday and what I am struggling to fathom (and for the past couple of years now) is how we manage to turn decent players into duds. Look at our recruitment, on paper it has looked good: Ladapo who has scored double figures in this league for fun: Coventry such a highly rated youngster with experience of this league: gillesphey who starred for Plymouth in a promotion season: edun, a marauding wing back at this level who earned a move to the championship. The list goes on when you think about mcgrandles, gilbey, Fraser and so on, all poty worthy for pervious clubs and more than proven at this level.So this must run deeper than bad recruitment. There must be a toxicity at the club that cannot be broken, and I’m talking since before the latest owners came in. There seems to be a culture of failure. Is it due to standards? Training? Senior management? Is it the pressure of playing for a club like Charlton, still deemed in many peoples eyes as a ‘big club’ with a stadium far better than most in this league? Are players just coming for the money and don’t really care about performance and results? Is it the fan base getting on people’s backs early, creating panic and worry?We are in a rut and big time. I am hoping Nathan Jones is the man to sort this out and quickly, but to see that performance yesterday, knowing how important it was, in front of a new manager and with a sold out away end, is quite frankly disgusting.Anyway, onto Tuesday and let’s hope they get a rocket up their arse. Dropping to league 2 always seemed laughable but not anymore.
The mentality of “we’re too big for this League” has a lot to answer for.
In the Club, among players and impatient fans.
We’re not the first “big club” to struggle to recover from dropping to League One (or, God forbid, League Two).1 -
MrWalker said:
Wish there was a 'Quietly sobbing' button.tangoflash said:A rare sighting of H.M.S Piss the league
LOL will have to do.
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Endless criticism, but despite being asked by others you still refuse to say who you feel should have been appointed manager.DamoNorthStand said:peterreeves said:Perhaps Nathan was saying the other day without actually saying it that IF we went down then the rebuild starts there the way he did with Luton.... His players not other peoples.
Let's be honest we've seen this coming for years and it's been miserable.
Okay getting relegated isn't exactly what we all want but if it means we keep Jones, clear out the rubbish, bring in some players who have a backbone, keep the money men and get rid of the SMT then I'd be okay with it.
The club needs a reset and a clean slate.
Even if by a miracle of biblical proportions we stay up then we still need to cull and let Nathan run it...we can't keep papering over the cracks.There are some major holes in this thinking and scenario planning.
Going down to a division one level above what I still call the GM Vauxhall Conference? Whilst trying to maintain an infrastructure that includes a nigh on 30k stadium, training ground that at least belongs in the Championship, salaries to support that are in many cases well above league one average (Jones will not have been cheap either!).
The huge drop in revenue will not have been factored in to the current spending.1) Keep Jones? Thats gonna be a massive chunk out the budget and that’s if he would even want to manage in league 2. The guy was in the prem most recently!
2) And how do we foresee clearing out the rubbish? The value of all the players will be at an all time low. We won’t get the money back we paid for people, and in what would be an ever more vital battle to stay the right side of FFP - we won’t get the monies for the home grown players (straight to profit) than we would have got in league one.
3) Keep the money men? They didn’t sign up for league two football.
4) More people to pay off by getting rid of the SMT. And in some cases they are shareholders. So how is that going to work exactly?2 -
Very good in the first 10. Quickly reverted type. Pretty wank overall.
Wasn't expecting a new dawn and a sudden change in footballing ability after a week's training and one game, we still have the same squad of players. A lot of poor individual performances out there, and some outright just not good enough. If we're sticking with 3 at the back then get the new fullbacks in next game. Edun is a liability and T Watson just isn't good enough. Although I'd be going back to the 433/4231 with edun left wing and May behind Kanu.
Couldn't maintain the high pressing and play we opened with, Reading were good and showed how they're one of the top current form teams. Saying all that, it was our usual dumbass defending that undone us, clueless, prone to switching off and unable.to deal with a simple long throw. Twice.
Special mention to Ladapo. continues to look shockingly poor.
Extra special mention to Isted. Very good game, didn't look like he'd been out for anytime, improvement on AMB for sure.
Extra extra special mention to Cámara, quick feet and some nice close control, probably too soon to start him but we need him in the line up asap.
Jones has got a lot of work to do with this lot of shite, for now, gett the new fullbacks, Cámara and Kanu starting.
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Bizarre response considering up and down the leagues every single season new managers often come in to a club and change things up quickly.Covered End said:
Yeah, I too was disappointed that after one whole week he hadn't turned Tenai Watson into Kyle Walker.ValleyBen said:Jones is a decent manager but I am worried how little has changed after a full weeks training.
Some of these players and more importantly those who recruited them don't deserve our support.
This is not me in any way writing off Jones I just expected a slight improvement in attitude, decision making & quality after a week on the training pitches with no match distraction.
Other than Louis Watson starting that could have been any number of Appleton lead matches this season.2 -
The red mist that has descended is more like a crimson fog that’s stopping people from getting their facts straight before diving in to have another moan.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Where have you got this from? Your post has got 5 likes as well!blackpool72 said:
When we signed him he hadn't played for about a year.The Red Robin said:Ladapo was a decent player for Ipswich. Maybe the injury has ruined him.
Was recovering from a serious injury.
Had no pre season.
Whoever signed him on the back of that and expected him to hit the ground running is an idiot.
Ladapo was named in Ipswich's match day squad over 20 times this season, made 22 appearances in total (although most were sub appearances) and he started for them in the FA Cup 3rd round less than 2 weeks before we signed him.
I think you're getting him confused with Camara.
Ladapo hasn’t been unfit. It’s just another case of a player looking decent until he gets to Charlton - and then has two left feet when he gets here. No one thought he was a bad addition three weeks ago when we confirmed it.2 -
I'm reading page 8 so apologies if subsrquently already discussed.Valleysarr said:Anyone get hit with coins and plastic bottles?
But if not, who started throwing stuff us or them?0 -
I fear that for a while we have been sleepwalking to League 2. So many times I have read comments here from fans saying this is wrong, or this or that needs to be done...but we won't go down. Perhaps too many within the club or the team have felt the same.
The reality is that League 2 is a distinct possibility. I truly hope not but I look at this squad of players and ask myself if they have the guts and what it takes to win a relegation battle. My honest answer is no.
I hope I have got it wrong.
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Isn’t Miles 6’6” or did I imagine that? Surprised how close in height the other three are to him actually.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.
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I thought Jones did make the changes many of us wanted.ValleyBen said:
Bizarre response considering up and down the leagues every single season new managers often come in to a club and change things up quickly.Covered End said:
Yeah, I too was disappointed that after one whole week he hadn't turned Tenai Watson into Kyle Walker.ValleyBen said:Jones is a decent manager but I am worried how little has changed after a full weeks training.
Some of these players and more importantly those who recruited them don't deserve our support.
This is not me in any way writing off Jones I just expected a slight improvement in attitude, decision making & quality after a week on the training pitches with no match distraction.
Other than Louis Watson starting that could have been any number of Appleton lead matches this season.
Isted in for AMB.
Louis Watson in.
Jones back in played well.
Camara eased back in.
Kanu was waiting to be subbed on before we went 1 down.
I thought there was a slight improvement in attitude and decision making.
What Nathan Jones didn't manage in 5 days was to be able to turn poor players & unfit players into top performing players and I 100% believe Pep or Klopp could not convert Edun, T Watson, Ladapo into top petforming L1 players in 5 days.8 -
Yes, but we're playing Tuesday & I doubt Kanu could start & finish 2 games in 4 days.Phil said:The repeated mistake is not starting Kanu. FFS why does Ladapo always start. He offers nothing and doesn’t even merit a place on the bench. An academy player would at least be enthusiastic!
If Chuks isn’t back soon we really are off to League 2!
I think he'll start Tuesday, which would be sensible.2 -
Well said.IAgree said:In various threads and posts the complex, multifaceted and historical analysis of how we have ended up in this position has been well considered and high quality (mostly 😂). To expect any manager, the third this year, to turn it around in five days is the opposite of that wisdom and is simply not realistic, neither was it particularly achievable.
We are starting from a very low place indeed and it’s going to take a little more time than a week to gain traction. There are several games which I think can be won if progress is made, we do have a better team on paper than has been apparent and we do have some key players returning from injury
It’s clearly going to be a rollercoaster spring however let’s give the new manager time to work and our support and goodwill. We might stay up we might not but we cannot keep going through managers three a season and we cannot keep expecting managers to exert messianic powers and undo a decades worth of harm in a few days.
It beggars belief that some fans think you can remedy 17 years of decline in 5 days.8 -
1.95m according to Wiki so 6'5". Ness and Thomas 6'3". Isted does look small in the goal but he did well yesterday.Callumcafc said:
Isn’t Miles 6’6” or did I imagine that? Surprised how close in height the other three are to him actually.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.1 -
Bottom line is the squad is poor and unfit - that is not Jone’s fault.
What irks me and that the Board must have seen how shite MA was and did nothing to sack him until late in the window. Moreover, the signings were made by Scott who is a total idiot.
League 2, here we come and some of us have seen this coming - even IF we dodge the bullet and avoid relegation this year, i am not hopeful the club will learn anything with the idiots at the top. I do support Jones, but the squad he has is L2, at best.
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This question appears to be on the lips of most of us and has been for several seasons.Champs85 said:I watched on stream yesterday and what I am struggling to fathom (and for the past couple of years now) is how we manage to turn decent players into duds. Look at our recruitment, on paper it has looked good: Ladapo who has scored double figures in this league for fun: Coventry such a highly rated youngster with experience of this league: gillesphey who starred for Plymouth in a promotion season: edun, a marauding wing back at this level who earned a move to the championship. The list goes on when you think about mcgrandles, gilbey, Fraser and so on, all poty worthy for pervious clubs and more than proven at this level.So this must run deeper than bad recruitment. There must be a toxicity at the club that cannot be broken, and I’m talking since before the latest owners came in. There seems to be a culture of failure. Is it due to standards? Training? Senior management? Is it the pressure of playing for a club like Charlton, still deemed in many peoples eyes as a ‘big club’ with a stadium far better than most in this league? Are players just coming for the money and don’t really care about performance and results? Is it the fan base getting on people’s backs early, creating panic and worry?We are in a rut and big time. I am hoping Nathan Jones is the man to sort this out and quickly, but to see that performance yesterday, knowing how important it was, in front of a new manager and with a sold out away end, is quite frankly disgusting.Anyway, onto Tuesday and let’s hope they get a rocket up their arse. Dropping to league 2 always seemed laughable but not anymore.
I understand that the verb "To Charltonize" will be included in the next publication of the OED.
But seriously, maybe AS & co should be engaging an exorcist in a last ditch effort to rid our club of the demons that have seemingly gained a foot hold within it.
Or maybe sign them up ....2 -
My arguement is that you dont throw in a player from League 2 as an answer to the problem. Instead, you use the experienced pro's you have and play a style that suits them.Nug said:
Okay stick with Edun and Watson then. I’d never heard of them either. Unfortunately we don’t have the players. Really down to Jones to make something out of the shit recruiting that’s been going on.golfaddick said:
So we are now going to put our hopes of survival on a player we signed from Harrogate that until Feb 1st no-one had heard of.Nug said:We lack a lot of things right now but our delivery into the box is truly awful. Watson and Edun have never shown that ability. If either Ramsay or Small do they need to be given a chance. We are creating nothing.
Ye gods !!
44fucking2
And PS.....
If Kayne Ramsay replaces T.Watson on Tues and after 5 mins hits a misplaced pass expect pelters on here & in the stands, which won't do his confidence any good.
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Does anyone have an update on Mile’s return and will Chuks put some boots on again ?0
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FWIW.
442
Isted
Watson Jones Ness Thomas
Campbell Camara Coventry Ladapo
May Kanu
(Or Ramsay in for Watson and Edun for Ladapo) (and /'or Ladapo on the right instead of Campbell)3 -
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Unbelievable how many calls for 4-4-2 there are given the complaints our midfield don’t control anything!
On what planet does minimising the number of CM’s to two, then lining up against midfields with three CM’s, make anyone feel we’d gain more control?You’ve got teams playing box midfield variations to create 4 vs 3 scenarios and we want to go to a CM of 2. How does that make any sense?5 -
What experienced pros would you have replace Watson and Edun? I’m not saying those 2 young players are the answer but then why the f*@k did we sign them. We need players now.golfaddick said:
My arguement is that you dont throw in a player from League 2 as an answer to the problem. Instead, you use the experienced pro's you have and play a style that suits them.Nug said:
Okay stick with Edun and Watson then. I’d never heard of them either. Unfortunately we don’t have the players. Really down to Jones to make something out of the shit recruiting that’s been going on.golfaddick said:
So we are now going to put our hopes of survival on a player we signed from Harrogate that until Feb 1st no-one had heard of.Nug said:We lack a lot of things right now but our delivery into the box is truly awful. Watson and Edun have never shown that ability. If either Ramsay or Small do they need to be given a chance. We are creating nothing.
Ye gods !!
44fucking2
And PS.....
If Kayne Ramsay replaces T.Watson on Tues and after 5 mins hits a misplaced pass expect pelters on here & in the stands, which won't do his confidence any good.0 -
The central defence is crap too.Nug said:
What experienced pros would you have replace Watson and Edun? I’m not saying those 2 young players are the answer but then why the f@@k did we sign them. We need players now.golfaddick said:
My arguement is that you dont throw in a player from League 2 as an answer to the problem. Instead, you use the experienced pro's you have and play a style that suits them.Nug said:
Okay stick with Edun and Watson then. I’d never heard of them either. Unfortunately we don’t have the players. Really down to Jones to make something out of the shit recruiting that’s been going on.golfaddick said:
So we are now going to put our hopes of survival on a player we signed from Harrogate that until Feb 1st no-one had heard of.Nug said:We lack a lot of things right now but our delivery into the box is truly awful. Watson and Edun have never shown that ability. If either Ramsay or Small do they need to be given a chance. We are creating nothing.
Ye gods !!
44fucking2
And PS.....
If Kayne Ramsay replaces T.Watson on Tues and after 5 mins hits a misplaced pass expect pelters on here & in the stands, which won't do his confidence any good.0 -
He’s not the one in the hat.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.2 -
Bit late on that joke.The Red Robin said:
He’s not the one in the hat.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.1 -
Ness is 6’3” so Isted looks about 5’11”?The Red Robin said:
He’s not the one in the hat.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.0 -
Tbf he is playing like someone who's had a long period out so i can understand the confu! The fact he hasn't, and is still playing as poorly as he is is staggering.Callumcafc said:
The red mist that has descended is more like a crimson fog that’s stopping people from getting their facts straight before diving in to have another moan.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Where have you got this from? Your post has got 5 likes as well!blackpool72 said:
When we signed him he hadn't played for about a year.The Red Robin said:Ladapo was a decent player for Ipswich. Maybe the injury has ruined him.
Was recovering from a serious injury.
Had no pre season.
Whoever signed him on the back of that and expected him to hit the ground running is an idiot.
Ladapo was named in Ipswich's match day squad over 20 times this season, made 22 appearances in total (although most were sub appearances) and he started for them in the FA Cup 3rd round less than 2 weeks before we signed him.
I think you're getting him confused with Camara.
Ladapo hasn’t been unfit. It’s just another case of a player looking decent until he gets to Charlton - and then has two left feet when he gets here. No one thought he was a bad addition three weeks ago when we confirmed it.
What's his excuse? Just a lazy waste of space?0 -
I know that, a goalkeeper is taller, so must be the one in the blue trainers.The Red Robin said:
He’s not the one in the hat.Talal said:
He doesn't look it.The Red Robin said:Didn’t have our goalkeeper failing the Charlton Life height test on my bingo card today. Isted is 6ft 1in. Same height as the England number one, Jordan Pickford.1 -
Do we have enough goals in the side? If you know scoring is a problem, it can actually affect the defence as mistakes are amplified and the pressure ramps up. CBT was our second biggest source of goals.0
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Ladapo on the wing? Is Appleton still our manager?golfaddick said:FWIW.
442
Isted
Watson Jones Ness Thomas
Campbell Camara Coventry Ladapo
May Kanu
(Or Ramsay in for Watson and Edun for Ladapo) (and /'or Ladapo on the right instead of Campbell)3
