+++ Luke Chambers Signs On Loan From Liverpool+++

daveydanger

fenlandaddick said:

Never let the highs get too high...or the lows too low 😉

Not sure if you’re joking but this 

fenlandaddick

daveydanger said:

fenlandaddick said:

Never let the highs get too high...or the lows too low 😉

Not sure if you’re joking but this 

Not joking. Just trying to help those in need.

CaptainRobbo

TD_Addick said:

Bet Roussillon will have some sleepless nights now he could fall down the pecking order. 

One more player to get behind in the canteen queue.

TheHerminator

Braziliance said:

sam3110 said:

LargeAddick said:

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

That is incredibly disrespectful to Gillesphey. I wonder if you were calling him that back in late May.

It's called sensationalism, unfortunately a few posters on here have resorted to it a lot to try and make themselves stand out more I guess

Posted in this manner since I was first able to use the Internet. 

Second time the word 'sensationalism' has been used in regards to one of my posts, and it's bollocks. 

I just call things for how they are. People are just a bit sensitive to the harsh truth on here at times. This is one of the least ambitious signings made in the Championship so far, and it is in a priority position for us.

Meanwhile our relegation rivals are signing Championship standard players. 

We've sgned Dykes and Clarke who look to be really good players. Do they not count?

Your memory is incredibly poor and seem to focus only on the latest thing

Scoham

What type of LWB was everyone expecting?

A L1 journeyman wouldn’t have been seen as good enough.

A promising lower league player or a player from abroad would have been seen as a gamble.

A Championship club’s first choice LB/LWB isn’t realistic with our budget.

There would have been question marks around a 2nd or 3rd choice Championship player being good enough.

Anyone from the PL would have been a younger player either with or without loan experience.

An older unwanted would have been compared to Rousillon.

I can’t picture where this proven Championship quality LB/LWB comes from in this window.

fenaddick

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

blackpool72

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Stu_of_Kunming

blackpool72 said:

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Even if we had the budget, why would a champ club sell a first team player to us? Why would an established champ player jump ship and potentially be playing league one football next year?

Honestly struggle to see how we could have realistically done any better.

blackpool72

Stu_of_Kunming said:

blackpool72 said:

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Even if we had the budget, why would a champ club sell a first team player to us? Why would an established champ player jump ship and potentially be playing league one football next year?

Honestly struggle to see how we could have realistically done any better.

You are agreeing with what I said 

I said in an ideal world we would sign that type of player. 

I also said this is not an ideal world so we couldn't. 

thenewbie

Braziliance said:

sam3110 said:

LargeAddick said:

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

That is incredibly disrespectful to Gillesphey. I wonder if you were calling him that back in late May.

It's called sensationalism, unfortunately a few posters on here have resorted to it a lot to try and make themselves stand out more I guess

Posted in this manner since I was first able to use the Internet. 

Second time the word 'sensationalism' has been used in regards to one of my posts, and it's bollocks. 

I just call things for how they are. People are just a bit sensitive to the harsh truth on here at times. This is one of the least ambitious signings made in the Championship so far, and it is in a priority position for us.

Meanwhile our relegation rivals are signing Championship standard players. 

It's remarkably convenient that the way you see things just so happens to be "how things are" and the "harsh truth" when the rest of us plebs just have little things called opinions... 

TheHerminator

blackpool72 said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

blackpool72 said:

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Even if we had the budget, why would a champ club sell a first team player to us? Why would an established champ player jump ship and potentially be playing league one football next year?

Honestly struggle to see how we could have realistically done any better.

You are agreeing with what I said 

I said in an ideal world we would sign that type of player. 

I also said this is not an ideal world so we couldn't. 

You're basically saying the same thnig here, and I'd suggest a lot of us agree with it. 

This is literally the best a team that came up from league one last year could do in the Jan transfer window, especially without spending £10m.

To your point why would anyone established in a mid table Champ side leave to fight relegation, even if we did have the money to throw at a transfer fee.

They wouldn't is the short answer 

Stu_of_Kunming

blackpool72 said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

blackpool72 said:

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Even if we had the budget, why would a champ club sell a first team player to us? Why would an established champ player jump ship and potentially be playing league one football next year?

Honestly struggle to see how we could have realistically done any better.

You are agreeing with what I said 

I said in an ideal world we would sign that type of player. 

I also said this is not an ideal world so we couldn't. 

Wasn't trying to disagree, more just highlighting how hard it is for a club like ours to come up a league and compete at this level without the riches of Wrexham or Birmingham. 

TheHerminator

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

sam3110 said:

LargeAddick said:

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

That is incredibly disrespectful to Gillesphey. I wonder if you were calling him that back in late May.

It's called sensationalism, unfortunately a few posters on here have resorted to it a lot to try and make themselves stand out more I guess

Posted in this manner since I was first able to use the Internet. 

Second time the word 'sensationalism' has been used in regards to one of my posts, and it's bollocks. 

I just call things for how they are. People are just a bit sensitive to the harsh truth on here at times. This is one of the least ambitious signings made in the Championship so far, and it is in a priority position for us.

Meanwhile our relegation rivals are signing Championship standard players. 

It's remarkably convenient that the way you see things just so happens to be "how things are" and the "harsh truth" when the rest of us plebs just have little things called opinions... 

He takes a camera to all the games you know. Gives him special insight the rest of us fans who go to just watch the game don't get. 

blackpool72

Stu_of_Kunming said:

blackpool72 said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

blackpool72 said:

In an ideal world i would have liked to sign a left back with plenty of championship games under his belt and who is match fit and ready to hit the ground running. 
But this is not an ideal world and that type of player is probably beyond our budget. 
As for the kid we have signed i hope his injury problems are behind him and he can give us much better balance at the back.
I wish him well. 

Even if we had the budget, why would a champ club sell a first team player to us? Why would an established champ player jump ship and potentially be playing league one football next year?

Honestly struggle to see how we could have realistically done any better.

You are agreeing with what I said 

I said in an ideal world we would sign that type of player. 

I also said this is not an ideal world so we couldn't. 

Wasn't trying to disagree, more just highlighting how hard it is for a club like ours to come up a league and compete at this level without the riches of Wrexham or Birmingham. 

True. 
Id like to think though that if we stay up this season then next season 's budget will be more competitive 

redbuttle

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

Anyway, what do you know? Obviously your football knowledge is better than Liverpools

Stu_of_Kunming

I hope so too, but I also understand it'll take a bit more than that to catch up with teams that have been in this league spending for years.

I'm just happy I can join in with footy conversations at work on a Monday morning and not get met with blank looks as no one has heard of whatever twobob outfit we played. xD

Orpingtony

TD_Addick said:

Bet Roussillon will have some sleepless nights now he could fall down the pecking order. 

He'd have more sleepless nights if he was told he was in the team. 

CaptainRobbo

Orpingtony said:

TD_Addick said:

Bet Roussillon will have some sleepless nights now he could fall down the pecking order. 

He'd have more sleepless nights if he was told he was in the team. 

NJ : "Jerome, I'm going to give you a start Tuesday night".

JR : "Sorry gaffer not gonna happen, got a table booked at the Ivy Tuesday. Am free Wednesday though."

AberystwythAddick

fenaddick said:

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

This really doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all.

we basically need to get another lb so they can alternate the rest of the season. 

I agree with some on here that this isn’t the signing we needed in the sense of anyone is better than no one. 

We should have focused on someone that can play week in week out, there are options out there 

CL_Phantom

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

sam3110 said:

LargeAddick said:

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

That is incredibly disrespectful to Gillesphey. I wonder if you were calling him that back in late May.

It's called sensationalism, unfortunately a few posters on here have resorted to it a lot to try and make themselves stand out more I guess

Posted in this manner since I was first able to use the Internet. 

Second time the word 'sensationalism' has been used in regards to one of my posts, and it's bollocks. 

I just call things for how they are. People are just a bit sensitive to the harsh truth on here at times. This is one of the least ambitious signings made in the Championship so far, and it is in a priority position for us.

Meanwhile our relegation rivals are signing Championship standard players. 

It's remarkably convenient that the way you see things just so happens to be "how things are" and the "harsh truth" when the rest of us plebs just have little things called opinions... 

TBF to Braz he's far from the only one on here who confuses own thoughts and opinions with being "how things are".

CL_Phantom

Welcome Chambers, 

Hopefully more Maatsen then Castillo, Liverpool taking their time over the deal to check his recovery (if I've read that right?) gives me hope that they see him as a someone they properly want to develop and get game time in the champ so quality wise should be up to the task even if he doesnt have a great deal of experience. 

The injury concerns go without saying, but its a position filled at last.

Garrymanilow

Scoham said:

What type of LWB was everyone expecting?

A L1 journeyman wouldn’t have been seen as good enough.

A promising lower league player or a player from abroad would have been seen as a gamble.

A Championship club’s first choice LB/LWB isn’t realistic with our budget.

There would have been question marks around a 2nd or 3rd choice Championship player being good enough.

Anyone from the PL would have been a younger player either with or without loan experience.

An older unwanted would have been compared to Rousillon.

I can’t picture where this proven Championship quality LB/LWB comes from in this window.

Imagine the response if we'd signed a left back from a second division Scottish team. Or picked up a left back who'd shown promise as a youngster but been bombed out of every team he'd played for since. If there's one thing people should have learned from our transfer business so far it's that what someone did before or how much they cost isn't necessarily a great indicator of how good they'll be. Our best players generally are a free transfer we got from Cambridge, a free from Blackpool, the bloke we got from L2 Harrogate, a second division Scottish player and one of Jones' 'old Luton mates' that we apparently hate so much, also on a free.

Chris_from_Sidcup

redbuttle said:

Braziliance said:

Makes ya laugh. 

We are embarrassingly bad on the left hand side of the pitch, so much so we are playing a winger there, and a fridge freezer. Every team exploits our weakness down that side. 

The answer so far, 20 days in, an untested, inexperienced Liverpool youth player, returning from injury, when we are in a relegation fight. 

This is Roland Duchatelet levels of patchwork/papering over the cracks signing. 

Welcome to the lad, but by the looks of things, he couldn't even stand out in League 1, so why have we loaned him. Reeks of desperation. 

Anyway, what do you know? Obviously your football knowledge is better than Liverpools

I don't agree with Braziliance's negativity on this signing but just because he's at Liverpool it doesn't exactly mean he's going to be good. Clubs have to keep kids of a certain age on their books in order to be able to fulfill U21 fixtures.

Look at some of our previous loans, Nile john (Spurs), Tedic (Man City), Matt Smith (both of them - Arsenal and Man City), Nathan Ecclestone (Liverpool), Dylan Levitt (Man Utd)

All of them came from big clubs and all were pretty fucking terrible for us.

CombeMartin

AberystwythAddick said:

fenaddick said:

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

This really doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all.

we basically need to get another lb so they can alternate the rest of the season. 

I agree with some on here that this isn’t the signing we needed in the sense of anyone is better than no one. 

We should have focused on someone that can play week in week out, there are options out there 

Can you name some please, players that are available (ie not needed where they are and whose wages we could afford and whose owning club arn't a rival to us).  

ForeverAddickted

Garrymanilow said:

Scoham said:

What type of LWB was everyone expecting?

A L1 journeyman wouldn’t have been seen as good enough.

A promising lower league player or a player from abroad would have been seen as a gamble.

A Championship club’s first choice LB/LWB isn’t realistic with our budget.

There would have been question marks around a 2nd or 3rd choice Championship player being good enough.

Anyone from the PL would have been a younger player either with or without loan experience.

An older unwanted would have been compared to Rousillon.

I can’t picture where this proven Championship quality LB/LWB comes from in this window.

Imagine the response if we'd signed a left back from a second division Scottish team. Or picked up a left back who'd shown promise as a youngster but been bombed out of every team he'd played for since. If there's one thing people should have learned from our transfer business so far it's that what someone did before or how much they cost isn't necessarily a great indicator of how good they'll be. Our best players generally are a free transfer we got from Cambridge, a free from Blackpool, the bloke we got from L2 Harrogate, a second division Scottish player and one of Jones' 'old Luton mates' that we apparently hate so much, also on a free.

Have we even signed many experienced players in the recent past that have dropped down from the Premier League etc. and have turned out well? - Berry perhaps, same with Kaminski, Bree, Burke and Bell but those are names who have worked with Jones, because he knows he can trust them to adapt to his methods;

On the other hand; Ledley, Arter, Watson, Gunter, Hemed, Kayal... even Hernandez and Rousillion have been massive disappointments

I think the one aspect I wish we took advantage of a bit more, was finding the Premier League Academy lads who get released and end up being EFL gems

AberystwythAddick

CombeMartin said:

AberystwythAddick said:

fenaddick said:

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

This really doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all.

we basically need to get another lb so they can alternate the rest of the season. 

I agree with some on here that this isn’t the signing we needed in the sense of anyone is better than no one. 

We should have focused on someone that can play week in week out, there are options out there 

Can you name some please, players that are available (ie not needed where they are and whose wages we could afford and whose owning club arn't a rival to us).  

Bali Mumba was available from Plymouth, championship experience (50 odd games) left back/ lwb and went for around 1 mill. Is that good enough? 

CAFCOlly

Some of the bed wetting I’ve read on this thread is astounding. We don’t need a flashy left back and you’re delusional to think we could get one for a reasonable price during this window.

If Chambers performs like a Purrington - no thrills but does the basics right, solid defensively and is a natural left back, it will add so much more balance to the team.

This will allow TC to play further up and give more protection to Macca whilst Bell is out. May also mean we can play a more attacking RWB with the left side being more shored up.

Concerns about his injury record are valid but comparing this window/transfer to the Roland years is ridiculous. 

ForeverAddickted

AberystwythAddick said:

CombeMartin said:

AberystwythAddick said:

fenaddick said:

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

This really doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all.

we basically need to get another lb so they can alternate the rest of the season. 

I agree with some on here that this isn’t the signing we needed in the sense of anyone is better than no one. 

We should have focused on someone that can play week in week out, there are options out there 

Can you name some please, players that are available (ie not needed where they are and whose wages we could afford and whose owning club arn't a rival to us).  

Bali Mumba was available from Plymouth, championship experience (50 odd games) left back/ lwb and went for around 1 mill. Is that good enough? 

He's also from South Shields, so perhaps we enquired, but he wanted to go back North

Also he signed for Huddersfield on 15th January, if Edwards hadn't been ruled out for the season, until around that date, then the club may not have wanted to have splashed £1m on someone who was effectively going to be a backup to Josh in a few weeks time.

But good name to mention though to be fair

Whilst Amass is seemingly going to Norwich, so another we were potentially after, but haven't been able to compete financially

AberystwythAddick

AberystwythAddick said:

CombeMartin said:

AberystwythAddick said:

fenaddick said:

The NTT20 view

Luke Chambers (LB/CB) - [Liverpool - Charlton] - Loan

Charlton fans, rejoice. You’ve signed a new left-sided defender! With Tyreece Campbell having to fill in at left wing-back due to Josh Edwards missing a “catastrophic” amount of football (Nathan Jones’ words) and Jérôme Roussillon just… missing, Chambers’ arrival is timely. There is a catch, however: the Liverpool youngster has recently recovered from his own long-term injury.

Chambers, 21, has previously impressed on loan at Kilmarnock and Wigan. He’s technically good, very composed in possession, and keen to get forward. He isn’t as comfortable going the other way, and can be found wanting in physical duels. Due to his recent injury and lack of game time, it’s hard to imagine him playing week in, week out, but if he can stay fit then Chambers should be a useful addition for the Addicks.

This really doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all.

we basically need to get another lb so they can alternate the rest of the season. 

I agree with some on here that this isn’t the signing we needed in the sense of anyone is better than no one. 

We should have focused on someone that can play week in week out, there are options out there 

Can you name some please, players that are available (ie not needed where they are and whose wages we could afford and whose owning club arn't a rival to us).  

Bali Mumba was available from Plymouth, championship experience (50 odd games) left back/ lwb and went for around 1 mill. Is that good enough? 

Harry Amass standout at owls on loan from Man U being recalled and reloaded out apparently. Showed he can play well in the championship and is also a left back. A loan would have sorted us out till summer and he has played more or less all championship games 

AberystwythAddick

CAFCOlly said:

Some of the bed wetting I’ve read on this thread is astounding. We don’t need a flashy left back and you’re delusional to think we could get one for a reasonable price during this window.

If Chambers performs like a Purrington - no thrills but does the basics right, solid defensively and is a natural left back, it will add so much more balance to the team.

This will allow TC to play further up and give more protection to Macca whilst Bell is out. May also mean we can play a more attacking RWB with the left side being more shored up.

Concerns about his injury record are valid but comparing this window/transfer to the Roland years is ridiculous. 

The problem is from the above NTT20 report on him it looks like he will struggle with the defensive part of the game, this will expose macca and mean that we won’t be using apter or another attacking right back