[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]I don't want to see people lose there jobs lets get this straight. But the people that are losing their jobs are in industries that are having to cut costs because they're going tits up. I don't think anyone that gets the tube everyday has noticed a drastic fall in travellers because I certainly haven't. Like I said I'm not happy about people losing jobs, it's horrible. But all I'm saying is the tube is an essential mode of transport for a lot of people so the demand for it is high so thats why they have the power to strike in the way that they do.
no they dont if they dont like it feckin leave and give it to someone else who would willingly do it for the pay on offer.
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]I don't want to see people lose there jobs lets get this straight. But the people that are losing their jobs are in industries that are having to cut costs because they're going tits up. I don't think anyone that gets the tube everyday has noticed a drastic fall in travellers because I certainly haven't. Like I said I'm not happy about people losing jobs, it's horrible. But all I'm saying is the tube is an essential mode of transport for a lot of people so the demand for it is high so thats why they have the power to strike in the way that they do.
Red what you are saying is because people need to use the tube then their staff have the right to demand extorsionate salary and screw their customers as and when they please, come on mate you can not agree with that
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]I don't want to see people lose there jobs lets get this straight. But the people that are losing their jobs are in industries that are having to cut costs because they're going tits up. I don't think anyone that gets the tube everyday has noticed a drastic fall in travellers because I certainly haven't. Like I said I'm not happy about people losing jobs, it's horrible. But all I'm saying is the tube is an essential mode of transport for a lot of people so the demand for it is high so thats why they have the power to strike in the way that they do.
Absolute, utter nonsense. The sole reason they have the power to strike is because the tube-using public are a captive audience. Nobody uses the damn tube through choice FFS! The same argument was made when they privatised the railways - 'oh, people will just use other forms of transport if they don't want to pay for the increased prices associated with private train operating companies'. Not if they work in London and live in f***ing Woking they won't!!
I'm an Engineer on the railway (overground) and I am a fully paid up member of the RMT. I'm not a fan of Bob Crow in anyway shape or form but he get's the job done and if it mean I have more money to take home I'm happy. The strike tomorrow is going to really inconvenience me too but I'll back the guys. I'm only trying to put forward the other side of the arguement.
Maybe its from day one of my working life I've been paid for every hour that I do that that's my attitude. This country does the most unpaid overtime in the whole of europe which I think is totally crazy and most people that do it are being taken for a ride by their employers.
I don't get as much as a tube/train driver, we do the same type of shifts. I'd love to have a basic like them, but because I don't have a strong union, I have to get on with what I get.
Before working on the Ambulances, I did 15 years on the railway. I was in the NUR/RMT and I always felt my union was looking out for me and its membership, because that's what a union is meant to do. But, I also felt that it was looking after the public too. This may sound strange, but if you look at a lot of the strike threats, it was over such things as safety issues, privatisation, etc.
Bob Crowe has a lot of support, and a lot of union members out side of the rail industry wish they had a union leader like him. I know that many people in my work would give anything to have a strong union leader like him!!!!
I don't agree with what they're paid if truth be told, but I can see why they are striking when they are. They're out to cause maximum destruction and to flex their muscles. I may not think its right but I just maybe see it from the other side of the coin because I've seen what management are trying to do with our jobs here and I'm sure that the underground isn't a million miles away from that.
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]I don't want to see people lose there jobs lets get this straight. But the people that are losing their jobs are in industries that are having to cut costs because they're going tits up. I don't think anyone that gets the tube everyday has noticed a drastic fall in travellers because I certainly haven't. Like I said I'm not happy about people losing jobs, it's horrible. But all I'm saying is the tube is an essential mode of transport for a lot of people so the demand for it is high so thats why they have the power to strike in the way that they do.
People don't choose to use it, they HAVE to, so the RMT can just hold us all to ransom until they get what they want.
Yeah, some of the demands in the past have been reasonable and fair, this is just crazy and selfish imho.
To back up RedArmySE7 here. If your job pays less and you get less holiday then tube drivers, why haven't you ever considered working for them? I know a lot of people are unable to etc. But why aren't more people looking in to it if it's so easy?
Replace the current drivers with all the recently unemployed people, they will work for that wage. Make them sign something saying they can never strike and kick all the current drivers out. Obvioulsy do this in a structured manor.
They HAVE to Stu? Cycle? Drive? Walk? Bus? I'll be walking tomorrow. I honestly don't know exactly what the demands are other than little snippets I've heard on the radio, but again that's going to be heavily biassed as the media will be following the mjority of people who aren't tube workers or RMT members. I'd have to know the full demands/offers before discreditting your claim they're crazy and selfish.
Are people are jealous of Bob Crow's power and conditions the RMT have got their members? Sounds like that to me.
As for doing unpaid overtime I just don’t understand that one. If you cant do it in normal hours something is seriously wrong. Every hour I work I get paid for.
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]No but I wouldn't work 5 minutes over what my hours are without making sure I get paid for it.
Don't ever leave the job your in then, most people don't have that luxery.
Why not though? Where has society gone wrong that its acceptable to work without getting paid. It's stealing labour surely?
In support of Red Army I think he raises a fair point, although perhaps his own statement about not working 5 minutes without getting paid is extreme under normal circumstance let alone in the current climate. Both sides need to show flexibility but I do feel that some employers take the pee as much as other employees work the system to their own advantage.
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]No but I wouldn't work 5 minutes over what my hours are without making sure I get paid for it.
if you worked in private business and your boss asked you to just do one quick thing for him before you left which would only take 20minutes but its really urgent and cant wait for the morning - are you really going to stand up all millitant milly and say "no way its past my working hours"... you wouldnt last 5 minutes and rightly so as its about being part of a team.
Alright my 5 minutes comment was over zealous I take that on board. My point was more about the fact I think people have the piss taken out of them in this country because they allow it to happen. We have the fewest Bank Holidays and do the most unpaid overtime in Europe... Why?
[cite]Posted By: charltonkeston[/cite]Are people are jealous of Bob Crow's power and conditions the RMT have got their members? Sounds like that to me.
As for doing unpaid overtime I just don’t understand that one. If you cant do it in normal hours something is seriously wrong. Every hour I work I get paid for.
Your first line is probably right, your second one if ridiculous, some people get paid a salary and not by the hour.
[cite]Posted By: Medders[/cite]Ask someone like CAFCKev, an ambulance technician, what he earns... his work includes night shifts, bank holidays, christmas day/boxing day for a fraction of what a tube driver gets. Really pisses me off
Best post on this thread BAR NONE. Forgot to add the abuse the ambulance drivers get.
I will say let's not get personal to Red Army as he said he's a fully paid up member of RMT, and I might be in the future, so he's got to back up his colleagues - as I would if I was in RMT. He could just word his comments better LOL
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]They HAVE to Stu? Cycle? Drive? Walk? Bus? I'll be walking tomorrow. I honestly don't know exactly what the demands are other than little snippets I've heard on the radio, but again that's going to be heavily biassed as the media will be following the mjority of people who aren't tube workers or RMT members. I'd have to know the full demands/offers before discreditting your claim they're crazy and selfish.
Red i have seen most of the bumf if not all there is on the wage deal offered to the RMT and i have seen all the demands from the RMT
they are being ultra greedy whilst holding the every day man and women to Ransome and taht is a nailed on fact, There is no excuses other than greed, the fact taht you still consider it fair to hold people to ransome just because you can echos back to the poor days of the unions in the 70's where a strike was called at the drop of a hat just because they could, i work in an industry where the union have asked for a higher pay rise than the members feel justified, the companies lower offer was accepted because the workers felt ahamed and embarresed of what their union and some of their shop stewards were asking for.
sometimes just because you can doesnt make it right or acceptable and the members of the RMT that have voted to strike should be ashamed of themselves
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]No but I wouldn't work 5 minutes over what my hours are without making sure I get paid for it.
Don't ever leave the job your in then, most people don't have that luxery.
Why not though? Where has society gone wrong that its acceptable to work without getting paid. It's stealing labour surely?
I'm with you on this.
I work in IT and it is part of the job that there are times that you have to work long hours evenings and weekends because there are always certain things that cannot be done when other staff are in. I may not get 'paid' for it but always make sure that my contract gives me an extra days holiday for each weekend day I work and I expect any working late to be paid back by either starting late or finishing early on another day. It is all about give and take but you need to be able to fight your corner. if it has cost me jobs in the past then so be it as they would not be jobs i want to do.
[cite]Posted By: charltonkeston[/cite]Are people are jealous of Bob Crow's power and conditions the RMT have got their members? Sounds like that to me.
As for doing unpaid overtime I just don’t understand that one. If you cant do it in normal hours something is seriously wrong. Every hour I work I get paid for.
Your first line is probably right, your second one if ridiculous, some people get paid a salary and not by the hour.
I get paid a salary, 36 hours per week and not one minute more will I do.
[cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite]They HAVE to Stu? Cycle? Drive? Walk? Bus? I'll be walking tomorrow.
Good luck with that. There will be plenty of people who live at the arse end of the tube who would have a fifteen mile walk to get to work. Some of them will be women, or elderly - two groups of society who are historically the most vulnerable in the workplace. Should they have to walk fifteen miles to get to work because (and lets not hide or gloss over the real reason for this strike any more) two tosspots f***ed up so badly in their jobs that they put lives at risk - and not for the first time - want the right to have their jobs back? I've read what the two sacked were done for and let me tell you - the equivalent in my job would be opening up our corporate firewall to the outside world for a week. If I did that I would be INSTANTLY sacked and would NEVER get a reference from my current employer - it would be termed as gross misconduct and rightly so. I've defended useless c***s like that before in tribunals - and they were the main reason I left Industrial Relations behind years ago.
Comments
no they dont if they dont like it feckin leave and give it to someone else who would willingly do it for the pay on offer.
Red what you are saying is because people need to use the tube then their staff have the right to demand extorsionate salary and screw their customers as and when they please, come on mate you can not agree with that
Maybe its from day one of my working life I've been paid for every hour that I do that that's my attitude. This country does the most unpaid overtime in the whole of europe which I think is totally crazy and most people that do it are being taken for a ride by their employers.
Before working on the Ambulances, I did 15 years on the railway. I was in the NUR/RMT and I always felt my union was looking out for me and its membership, because that's what a union is meant to do. But, I also felt that it was looking after the public too. This may sound strange, but if you look at a lot of the strike threats, it was over such things as safety issues, privatisation, etc.
Bob Crowe has a lot of support, and a lot of union members out side of the rail industry wish they had a union leader like him. I know that many people in my work would give anything to have a strong union leader like him!!!!
Don't ever leave the job your in then, most people don't have that luxery.
Why not though? Where has society gone wrong that its acceptable to work without getting paid. It's stealing labour surely?
People don't choose to use it, they HAVE to, so the RMT can just hold us all to ransom until they get what they want.
Yeah, some of the demands in the past have been reasonable and fair, this is just crazy and selfish imho.
I know the reasons for both and no way should either return to LU
As for doing unpaid overtime I just don’t understand that one. If you cant do it in normal hours something is seriously wrong. Every hour I work I get paid for.
In support of Red Army I think he raises a fair point, although perhaps his own statement about not working 5 minutes without getting paid is extreme under normal circumstance let alone in the current climate. Both sides need to show flexibility but I do feel that some employers take the pee as much as other employees work the system to their own advantage.
if you worked in private business and your boss asked you to just do one quick thing for him before you left which would only take 20minutes but its really urgent and cant wait for the morning - are you really going to stand up all millitant milly and say "no way its past my working hours"... you wouldnt last 5 minutes and rightly so as its about being part of a team.
luckily i get paid overtime
Best post on this thread BAR NONE. Forgot to add the abuse the ambulance drivers get.
I will say let's not get personal to Red Army as he said he's a fully paid up member of RMT, and I might be in the future, so he's got to back up his colleagues - as I would if I was in RMT. He could just word his comments better LOL
Red i have seen most of the bumf if not all there is on the wage deal offered to the RMT and i have seen all the demands from the RMT
they are being ultra greedy whilst holding the every day man and women to Ransome and taht is a nailed on fact, There is no excuses other than greed, the fact taht you still consider it fair to hold people to ransome just because you can echos back to the poor days of the unions in the 70's where a strike was called at the drop of a hat just because they could, i work in an industry where the union have asked for a higher pay rise than the members feel justified, the companies lower offer was accepted because the workers felt ahamed and embarresed of what their union and some of their shop stewards were asking for.
sometimes just because you can doesnt make it right or acceptable and the members of the RMT that have voted to strike should be ashamed of themselves
I'm with you on this.
I work in IT and it is part of the job that there are times that you have to work long hours evenings and weekends because there are always certain things that cannot be done when other staff are in. I may not get 'paid' for it but always make sure that my contract gives me an extra days holiday for each weekend day I work and I expect any working late to be paid back by either starting late or finishing early on another day. It is all about give and take but you need to be able to fight your corner. if it has cost me jobs in the past then so be it as they would not be jobs i want to do.
I get paid a salary, 36 hours per week and not one minute more will I do.
but anyway is the argument about paid or unpaid overtime?
no B it is about greedy btsds holding the general public to ransome because they can
Damn... Nothing slips past you does it?!