Well then you're lucky charltonkeston. In my contract i have a clause that my working hours are 9-5.30 and a caveat that 'You will be expected to work these hours, together with such additional hours on weekdays at weekends and on statutory public and bank holidays as the needs of the Company’s business may require from time to time.'
The more people lose their jobs as a result of the recession the less people will be using the underground. This means that TfL will be taking less money and there will be a lower demand for their services. The logical consequence of that is they may have to reduce services and make a few drivers redundant. So asking for a promise that there will be no compulsory redundancies (which is legally ineffective anyway) is something that they have no right to demand whatsoever, why should they be different to any other business?
alot of the public sector workers wouldn't last 5 minutes in private industry... I know civil servants who are so militant when it comes to things they're asked to do, taking out greviences against their bosses as they're not allowed to go on a training course they want... I sit there and think, you'd be out the door if you were one of my staff.
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]alot of the public sector workers wouldn't last 5 minutes in private industry... I know civil servants who are so militant when it comes to things they're asked to do, taking out greviences against their bosses as they're not allowed to go on a training course they want... I sit there and think, you'd be out the door if you were one of my staff.
Agreed T. i work for a law firm. Support staff get paid overtime as we are on a adminstrative salary etc but the lawyers dont. so far i reckon they have racked up 50 hours this first week in june already - they are working 15 hour days. But then again they make the choice, its a career - dont do it and they're out but they also get handsomely rewarded... which is great for giving up their lives!
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]Well then you're lucky charltonkeston. In my contract i have a clause that my working hours are 9-5.30 and a caveat that 'You will be expected to work these hours, together with such additional hours on weekdays at weekends and on statutory public and bank holidays as the needs of the Company’s business may require from time to time.'
Pretty standard for the private sector, I thought?
Currently working indirectly for LU.
They will shortly be rolling out driverless trains on the Jubilee Line.
I say "driverless", there will still be a driver in the cab masterbating, but thats it.
In the event of a computer glitch, they will be called into action.
This and reasurance to the public are the reasons for them being there.
LU explain that this will allow for a greater number of trains to operate, as the trains will "talk" to each other (speed, etc). The real reason is the next time this bollocks occurs, they will grab the nearest cleaner and tell him/her to take over.
They (RMT) will then ask for public sympathy, and the public will remember incidents we will encounter tonight.
P.S. Why do the female drivers wear gloves? As above. Filthy bastards.
[cite]Posted By: Robbo on the wing[/cite]I say "driverless", there will still be a driver in the cab masterbating, but thats it.
In the event of a computer glitch, they will be called into action.
This and reasurance to the public are the reasons for them being there.
I will find a driver sitting there masturbating very reassuring.
I hope most of you have managed to get away early or at least on time tonight. My boss is being his usual flexible self and told me I have to stay here til 8pm, which then means no trains home from Cannon St, so I'll have to get over to Victoria, from Liverpool St.
Oh, and the boss left for home 15 mins ago, earlier than normal. Glad he'll be ok....
I seem to remember not so long a go a lot of lifers were telling us that they were being made redundant or had just been told they were redundant and most of us on here sent our condolences to the people concerned. At the time people indicated how out of order it was that your average man or woman was being kicked out due to the economic downturn and how heartless some of these organisations had been towards these people. This crisis is not of our own doing after all. So it strikes me, pardon the pun, that if someone could sign up to an organisation that could effectively protect your average person from this sort of situation that the majority of us would sign-up. Almost like taking out medical insurance. I have medical insurance, I hope to god I never need to use it, but I pay into it just on the off chance that I am covered in the event that I ever need it. Similarly if I could pay into an organisation / union that guaranteed my job security I'd do that as well. For want of a better word 'job insurance'. I'm not saying I agree with how the RMT handle things but at least they are standing up for their members on the redundancy issue and effectively guaranteeing jobs. It's good for their members, keeps a large corporate in check and prevents a bigger dole queue forming.
From looking at things today the poor workers at C&G could have done with a union like RMT rather than their union doing very little and simply condemning the massive job losses. What use is that to the poor people that have lost their job?
I see things from both sides of the fence. Yes the RMT are militant, Yes Bob Crow is a w**ker, yes it is going to be inconvenient to all the commuters and businesses will suffer, but if you were a TfL back office worker, NOT a Tube driver, on a very low basic and your job was being threatened wouldn't you want someone to try and protect you in some way or would you simply except your time was up and join the thousands already kicked out of their jobs through no fault of their own.
The media is focusing on LU staff, the drivers that RMT want to be re-instated and the pay demands. We should not forget it is TfL back office workers who are also RMT members that are also walking out. This is due to the fact that jobs, 3000 of them to be precise, are at risk due to the £40 million that TfL lost in the Icelandic banking crash and the losses made in the acquisition of Metronet. This figures are fact, I should know I work at TfL! Why should hard working staff loose their jobs for mistakes made by senior management.
Anyway, rant over...I wanted to curt through the media bullshit as the papers, as we all know, sensationalise and spin stuff to sell...errrr...papers.
I firmly aware I'm likely to get slated so will now stick on my tin hat. I thank you. :-)
Why should TFL staff be immune from redundancy if everyone else from all walks of business are getting made redundant through no fault of their own also?
Accept where you're coming from Sideways but the simple case with C&G is that they'd all be made redundant as the company isn't profitable and is privately owned.
The public sector workers seem to get away with murder thanks to a strong union and an endless supply of taxpayers money to back up if anything goes wrong (that said so have C&G!) it rankles so much that where private sector workers bend over backwards some people in the public sector refuse to work 5 minutes with out being paid.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]I seem to remember not so long a go a lot of lifers were telling us that they were being made redundant or had just been told they were redundant and most of us on here sent our condolences to the people concerned. At the time people indicated how out of order it was that your average man or woman was being kicked out due to the economic downturn and how heartless some of these organisations had been towards these people. This crisis is not of our own doing after all. So it strikes me, pardon the pun, that if someone could sign up to an organisation that could effectively protect your average person from this sort of situation that the majority of us would sign-up. Almost like taking out medical insurance. I have medical insurance, I hope to god I never need to use it, but I pay into it just on the off chance that I am covered in the event that I ever need it. Similarly if I could pay into an organisation / union that guaranteed my job security I'd do that as well. For want of a better word 'job insurance'. I'm not saying I agree with how the RMT handle things but at least they are standing up for their members on the redundancy issue and effectively guaranteeing jobs. It's good for their members, keeps a large corporate in check and prevents a bigger dole queue forming.
From looking at things today the poor workers at C&G could have done with a union like RMT rather than their union doing very little and simply condemning the massive job losses. What use is that to the poor people that have lost their job?
I see things from both sides of the fence. Yes the RMT are militant, Yes Bob Crow is a w**ker, yes it is going to be inconvenient to all the commuters and businesses will suffer, but if you were a TfL back office worker, NOT a Tube driver, on a very low basic and your job was being threatened wouldn't you want someone to try and protect you in some way or would you simply except your time was up and join the thousands already kicked out of their jobs through no fault of their own.
The media is focusing on LU staff, the drivers that RMT want to be re-instated and the pay demands. We should not forget it is TfL back office workers who are also RMT members that are also walking out. This is due to the fact that jobs, 3000 of them to be precise, are at risk due to the £40 million that TfL lost in the Icelandic banking crash and the losses made in the acquisition of Metronet. This figures are fact, I should know I work at TfL! Why should hard working staff loose their jobs for mistakes made by senior management.
Anyway, rant over...I wanted to curt through the media bullshit as the papers, as we all know, sensationalise and spin stuff to sell...errrr...papers.
I firmly aware I'm likely to get slated so will now stick on my tin hat. I thank you. :-)
the sentiment is right but all business need to run at a profit or else these things happen, all business need to re structure in order to maintain viabilty now i accept that this normally means people doing more work and less people doing the work, to put in place a clause that does not allow these restructures to take place normally causes the business to go bust and therefor more people on the dole queue.
But lets get things right the strike is not about that clause Boib Crowe himself during an interview on TV failed to mention that point until his second to last sentance the first 2 were about Pay and the reinstatment of 2 members of the union 1 who put his passengers at risk then tried to cover it up and another who is allegedly stole from his employers.
Bob Crow doesnt care about the redundancy clause he put it in there for public sympathy
Point taken. So TfL staff should accept the fact that management have made mistakes and therefore accept redundancy? Put another way having been put in this situation TfL staff should not accept any help in fighting the redundancies and accept their fate and go quietly?
If you were facing the chop would you go quietly or try and fight back?
Is the argument 'well that's how it's always been' or 'that's what other people have endured so you have to as well' acceptable?
no mate the problem lies within the organisation but for example if you had a staff of 5000 (not saying TFL has) and you need to reduce it by 10% to maintain the viability do you alow it to collapse and all 5000 lose their job or do you remove 500 and safe gaurd the future of the remaining 4500
Its negative. th isnt it. Its about STOPING their CUSTOMERS who PAY their wages from using the service so the shit they get directed at them comes in line with the fact that they are treating their CUSTOMERS like shit AGAIN.
I will step foward to drive a tube train for NO pay as long as the comi red twat Crowe is tied to the front of the train for the duration of my shift. What remains can be stuck on a pike and left in front on the RMT office ------------------happy to be of service.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]I seem to remember not so long a go a lot of lifers were telling us that they were being made redundant or had just been told they were redundant and most of us on here sent our condolences to the people concerned. At the time people indicated how out of order it was that your average man or woman was being kicked out due to the economic downturn and how heartless some of these organisations had been towards these people. This crisis is not of our own doing after all. So it strikes me, pardon the pun, that if someone could sign up to an organisation that could effectively protect your average person from this sort of situation that the majority of us would sign-up. Almost like taking out medical insurance. I have medical insurance, I hope to god I never need to use it, but I pay into it just on the off chance that I am covered in the event that I ever need it. Similarly if I could pay into an organisation / union that guaranteed my job security I'd do that as well. For want of a better word 'job insurance'. I'm not saying I agree with how the RMT handle things but at least they are standing up for their members on the redundancy issue and effectively guaranteeing jobs. It's good for their members, keeps a large corporate in check and prevents a bigger dole queue forming.
From looking at things today the poor workers at C&G could have done with a union like RMT rather than their union doing very little and simply condemning the massive job losses. What use is that to the poor people that have lost their job?
I see things from both sides of the fence. Yes the RMT are militant, Yes Bob Crow is a w**ker, yes it is going to be inconvenient to all the commuters and businesses will suffer, but if you were a TfL back office worker, NOT a Tube driver, on a very low basic and your job was being threatened wouldn't you want someone to try and protect you in some way or would you simply except your time was up and join the thousands already kicked out of their jobs through no fault of their own.
The media is focusing on LU staff, the drivers that RMT want to be re-instated and the pay demands. We should not forget it is TfL back office workers who are also RMT members that are also walking out. This is due to the fact that jobs, 3000 of them to be precise, are at risk due to the £40 million that TfL lost in the Icelandic banking crash and the losses made in the acquisition of Metronet. This figures are fact, I should know I work at TfL! Why should hard working staff loose their jobs for mistakes made by senior management.
Anyway, rant over...I wanted to curt through the media bullshit as the papers, as we all know, sensationalise and spin stuff to sell...errrr...papers.
I firmly aware I'm likely to get slated so will now stick on my tin hat. I thank you. :-)
the sentiment is right but all business need to run at a profit or else these things happen, all business need to re structure in order to maintain viabilty now i accept that this normally means people doing more work and less people doing the work, to put in place a clause that does not allow these restructures to take place normally causes the business to go bust and therefor more people on the dole queue.
But lets get things right the strike is not about that clause Boib Crowe himself during an interview on TV failed to mention that point until his second to last sentance the first 2 were about Pay and the reinstatment of 2 members of the union 1 who put his passengers at risk then tried to cover it up and another who is allegedly stole from his employers.
Bob Crow doesnt care about the redundancy clause he put it in there for public sympathy
Really....funny that because on my voting papers the supporting blurb only mentioned about voting for strike action due to the 3000 redundancies at TfL and the fact that whilst LU had been offered an 'X' amount of pay increase TfL had yet to put anything forward to it's employees. As TfL were not prepared to offer anything or even state 'there will be a freeze on pay this year' the union urged it's TfL members to strike. Clearly you've seen different ballot papers and I've been mislead. Bugger!
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]no mate the problem lies within the organisation but for example if you had a staff of 5000 (not saying TFL has) and you need to reduce it by 10% to maintain the viability do you alow it to collapse and all 5000 lose their job or do you remove 500 and safe gaurd the future of the remaining 4500
Point taken. Can't argue with that. I'm just scared of losing my job and as I'm a bottom feeder in the large world of TfL they won't negotiate directly with me. I therefore have had to adopt the approach of joining the masses in RMT. Something I'm not terribly proud of, but supporting a family I can't afford to loose my job. What else can I do?
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]no mate the problem lies within the organisation but for example if you had a staff of 5000 (not saying TFL has) and you need to reduce it by 10% to maintain the viability do you alow it to collapse and all 5000 lose their job or do you remove 500 and safe gaurd the future of the remaining 4500
Point taken. Can't argue with that. I just am scared of losing my job.
and i am sorry about that mate i really am and i hope it doesnt happen, but do you not think that he has damaged the public sympathy by his unacceptable wage demands, the media will pick up on that and not the redundancies
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Why should TFL staff be immune from redundancy if everyone else from all walks of business are getting made redundant through no fault of their own also?
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]Really....funny that because on my voting papers the supporting blurb only mentioned about voting for strike action due to the 3000 redundancies at TfL and the fact that whilst LU had been offered an 'X' amount of pay increase TfL had yet to put anything forward to it's employees. As TfL were not prepared to offer anything or even state 'there will be a freeze on pay this year' the union urged it's TfL members to strike. Clearly you've seen different ballot papers and I've been mislead. Bugger!
The leader of the union you pay to join seems to lie to you quite a lot.
Hope putting out most of people is london is worth it, I mean thiefs and idiots are certainly the type of people we should be defending.
No way would anything like this EVER work in the private sector. It's blackmail, plain and simple.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Why should TFL staff be immune from redundancy if everyone else from all walks of business are getting made redundant through no fault of their own also?
Hear hear.
Right then. I'll clear my desk tomorrow and accept my fate along with everyone else. I just think people should be able to challenge decisions.
If we were all to accept our fate and not push back would anything ever be achieved?
There have been questionable decisions made in our clubs history that threatened its every existence. People did not accept what was being said was right, rallied, formed a political party and won. Other people at the time did not agree with what was being done, questioned what we were doing, laughed at us, but we still did what we thought was right and look at us know. We're back at the Valley.
I also would say, and I appreciate that this is tenuous, but as a Public Sector worker my pay is considerably lower than other people in the equivalent field. What drew me to my role was the increased job security. Am I wrong in wanting that when I'm supporting a family?
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]Accept where you're coming from Sideways but the simple case with C&G is that they'd all be made redundant as the company isn't profitable and is privately owned.
The public sector workers seem to get away with murder thanks to a strong union and an endless supply of taxpayers money to back up if anything goes wrong (that said so have C&G!) it rankles so much that where private sector workers bend over backwards some people in the public sector refuse to work 5 minutes with out being paid.
Not sure what direct experience you have of working in the public sector (none if I had to guess...) but you could not be more wrong. Unison is p##s poor, there is NO endless pot of money for the vast majority of the public sector and many, many people, myself included, work longer than our contracted hours every week in order to get the job done. Try telling that to my old mum who's ruined her health, used to get in at least an hour early every day to get the job done (without pay) and was then subject to daily abuse from the Great British unwashed all for not much more than minimum wage. Then when she ended up with a DVT & was promptly laid off after 20 odd years. Note - not retired on a wacking pension, effectviely sacked as she couldn't work to the same level any more.
You might guess I get really wound up when people generalise like you've been doing as there are good, bad and indifferent employees in ALL sectors yet you rarely hear someone saying that everybody in insurance is rubbish or that every retail worker deserves the sack.
Comments
If i don't agree to them i don't have a job...
as do most contracts of employment i know mine does and i quote it to my team where and when i have too, thing is the dont normally query it
Is it "public" knowledge ?
Agreed T. i work for a law firm. Support staff get paid overtime as we are on a adminstrative salary etc but the lawyers dont. so far i reckon they have racked up 50 hours this first week in june already - they are working 15 hour days. But then again they make the choice, its a career - dont do it and they're out but they also get handsomely rewarded... which is great for giving up their lives!
Pretty standard for the private sector, I thought?
They will shortly be rolling out driverless trains on the Jubilee Line.
I say "driverless", there will still be a driver in the cab masterbating, but thats it.
In the event of a computer glitch, they will be called into action.
This and reasurance to the public are the reasons for them being there.
LU explain that this will allow for a greater number of trains to operate, as the trains will "talk" to each other (speed, etc). The real reason is the next time this bollocks occurs, they will grab the nearest cleaner and tell him/her to take over.
They (RMT) will then ask for public sympathy, and the public will remember incidents we will encounter tonight.
P.S. Why do the female drivers wear gloves? As above. Filthy bastards.
I will find a driver sitting there masturbating very reassuring.
One driver opended the wrong side doors at Victoria then lied during an investigation about safty checks. The other one was sacked for theft.
Two fine examples of people that you'd want driving trains in future, and one you'd hope the RMT would pull out the stops to support....
PMSL!
Oh, and the boss left for home 15 mins ago, earlier than normal. Glad he'll be ok....
From looking at things today the poor workers at C&G could have done with a union like RMT rather than their union doing very little and simply condemning the massive job losses. What use is that to the poor people that have lost their job?
I see things from both sides of the fence. Yes the RMT are militant, Yes Bob Crow is a w**ker, yes it is going to be inconvenient to all the commuters and businesses will suffer, but if you were a TfL back office worker, NOT a Tube driver, on a very low basic and your job was being threatened wouldn't you want someone to try and protect you in some way or would you simply except your time was up and join the thousands already kicked out of their jobs through no fault of their own.
The media is focusing on LU staff, the drivers that RMT want to be re-instated and the pay demands. We should not forget it is TfL back office workers who are also RMT members that are also walking out. This is due to the fact that jobs, 3000 of them to be precise, are at risk due to the £40 million that TfL lost in the Icelandic banking crash and the losses made in the acquisition of Metronet. This figures are fact, I should know I work at TfL! Why should hard working staff loose their jobs for mistakes made by senior management.
Anyway, rant over...I wanted to curt through the media bullshit as the papers, as we all know, sensationalise and spin stuff to sell...errrr...papers.
I firmly aware I'm likely to get slated so will now stick on my tin hat. I thank you. :-)
The public sector workers seem to get away with murder thanks to a strong union and an endless supply of taxpayers money to back up if anything goes wrong (that said so have C&G!) it rankles so much that where private sector workers bend over backwards some people in the public sector refuse to work 5 minutes with out being paid.
the sentiment is right but all business need to run at a profit or else these things happen, all business need to re structure in order to maintain viabilty now i accept that this normally means people doing more work and less people doing the work, to put in place a clause that does not allow these restructures to take place normally causes the business to go bust and therefor more people on the dole queue.
But lets get things right the strike is not about that clause Boib Crowe himself during an interview on TV failed to mention that point until his second to last sentance the first 2 were about Pay and the reinstatment of 2 members of the union 1 who put his passengers at risk then tried to cover it up and another who is allegedly stole from his employers.
Bob Crow doesnt care about the redundancy clause he put it in there for public sympathy
If you were facing the chop would you go quietly or try and fight back?
Is the argument 'well that's how it's always been' or 'that's what other people have endured so you have to as well' acceptable?
I will step foward to drive a tube train for NO pay as long as the comi red twat Crowe is tied to the front of the train for the duration of my shift. What remains can be stuck on a pike and left in front on the RMT office ------------------happy to be of service.
Really....funny that because on my voting papers the supporting blurb only mentioned about voting for strike action due to the 3000 redundancies at TfL and the fact that whilst LU had been offered an 'X' amount of pay increase TfL had yet to put anything forward to it's employees. As TfL were not prepared to offer anything or even state 'there will be a freeze on pay this year' the union urged it's TfL members to strike. Clearly you've seen different ballot papers and I've been mislead. Bugger!
Point taken. Can't argue with that. I'm just scared of losing my job and as I'm a bottom feeder in the large world of TfL they won't negotiate directly with me. I therefore have had to adopt the approach of joining the masses in RMT. Something I'm not terribly proud of, but supporting a family I can't afford to loose my job. What else can I do?
does that sound like a man who cares about redundancy
and i am sorry about that mate i really am and i hope it doesnt happen, but do you not think that he has damaged the public sympathy by his unacceptable wage demands, the media will pick up on that and not the redundancies
Hear hear.
The leader of the union you pay to join seems to lie to you quite a lot.
Hope putting out most of people is london is worth it, I mean thiefs and idiots are certainly the type of people we should be defending.
No way would anything like this EVER work in the private sector. It's blackmail, plain and simple.
Right then. I'll clear my desk tomorrow and accept my fate along with everyone else. I just think people should be able to challenge decisions.
If we were all to accept our fate and not push back would anything ever be achieved?
There have been questionable decisions made in our clubs history that threatened its every existence. People did not accept what was being said was right, rallied, formed a political party and won. Other people at the time did not agree with what was being done, questioned what we were doing, laughed at us, but we still did what we thought was right and look at us know. We're back at the Valley.
I also would say, and I appreciate that this is tenuous, but as a Public Sector worker my pay is considerably lower than other people in the equivalent field. What drew me to my role was the increased job security. Am I wrong in wanting that when I'm supporting a family?
Not sure what direct experience you have of working in the public sector (none if I had to guess...) but you could not be more wrong. Unison is p##s poor, there is NO endless pot of money for the vast majority of the public sector and many, many people, myself included, work longer than our contracted hours every week in order to get the job done. Try telling that to my old mum who's ruined her health, used to get in at least an hour early every day to get the job done (without pay) and was then subject to daily abuse from the Great British unwashed all for not much more than minimum wage. Then when she ended up with a DVT & was promptly laid off after 20 odd years. Note - not retired on a wacking pension, effectviely sacked as she couldn't work to the same level any more.
You might guess I get really wound up when people generalise like you've been doing as there are good, bad and indifferent employees in ALL sectors yet you rarely hear someone saying that everybody in insurance is rubbish or that every retail worker deserves the sack.