[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Why should TFL staff be immune from redundancy if everyone else from all walks of business are getting made redundant through no fault of their own also?
Hear hear.
Right then. I'll clear my desk tomorrow and accept my fate along with everyone else. I just think people should be able to challenge decisions.
If we were all to accept our fate and not push back would anything ever be achieved?
There have been questionable decisions made in our clubs history that threatened its every existence. People did not accept what was being said was right, rallied, formed a political party and won. Other people at the time did not agree with what was being done, questioned what we were doing, laughed at us, but we still did what we thought was right and look at us know. We're back at the Valley.
I also would say, and I appreciate that this is tenuous, but as a Public Sector worker my pay is considerably lower than other people in the equivalent field. What drew me to my role was the increased job security. Am I wrong in wanting that when I'm supporting a family?
no mate you are not wrong unfortunatly similar to those poor people at Cheltenham and gloster (spelling sorry) the times have changed and we are all suffering
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]Really....funny that because on my voting papers the supporting blurb only mentioned about voting for strike action due to the 3000 redundancies at TfL and the fact that whilst LU had been offered an 'X' amount of pay increase TfL had yet to put anything forward to it's employees. As TfL were not prepared to offer anything or even state 'there will be a freeze on pay this year' the union urged it's TfL members to strike. Clearly you've seen different ballot papers and I've been mislead. Bugger!
The leader of the union you pay to join seems to lie to you quite a lot.
Hope putting out most of people is london is worth it, I mean thiefs and idiots are certainly the type of people we should be defending.
No way would anything like this EVER work in the private sector. It's blackmail, plain and simple.
Appreciate where you are coming from but it does happen in the private sector. For example didn't truckers strike over the cost of fuel and the threat it was having on their businesses and livelihoods? Didn’t Baggage handlers and check-in staff strike over pay and conditions? Both groups, and I could be wrong, worked in the private sector.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]Really....funny that because on my voting papers the supporting blurb only mentioned about voting for strike action due to the 3000 redundancies at TfL and the fact that whilst LU had been offered an 'X' amount of pay increase TfL had yet to put anything forward to it's employees. As TfL were not prepared to offer anything or even state 'there will be a freeze on pay this year' the union urged it's TfL members to strike. Clearly you've seen different ballot papers and I've been mislead. Bugger!
The leader of the union you pay to join seems to lie to you quite a lot.
Hope putting out most of people is london is worth it, I mean thiefs and idiots are certainly the type of people we should be defending.
No way would anything like this EVER work in the private sector. It's blackmail, plain and simple.
Appreciate where you are coming from but it does happen in the private sector. For example didn't truckers strike over the cost of fuel and the threat it was having on their businesses and livelihoods? Didn’t Baggage handlers and check-in staff strike over pay and conditions? Both groups, and I could be wrong, worked in the private sector.
dont think the truckers took strike action they tried to bring grid lock to the roadways not only to safe gaurd their jobs but to try to stop everyone paying extortionate fuel prices, Baggage handlers i feel the same as tube drivers strking hitting the poor members of public and ruining their week piss poor on both counts tube drivers and baggage handlers
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]Accept where you're coming from Sideways but the simple case with C&G is that they'd all be made redundant as the company isn't profitable and is privately owned.
The public sector workers seem to get away with murder thanks to a strong union and an endless supply of taxpayers money to back up if anything goes wrong (that said so have C&G!) it rankles so much that where private sector workers bend over backwards some people in the public sector refuse to work 5 minutes with out being paid.
Not sure what direct experience you have of working in the public sector (none if I had to guess...) but you could not be more wrong. Unison is p##s poor, there is NO endless pot of money for the vast majority of the public sector and many, many people, myself included, work longer than our contracted hours every week in order to get the job done. Try telling that to my old mum who's ruined her health, used to get in at least an hour every day to get the job done (without pay) and was then subject to daily abuse from the Great British unwashed all for not much more than minimum wage. Then when she ended up with a DVT & was promptly laid off after 20 odd years. Note -notretired on a wacking pension, effectviely sacked as she couldn't work to the same level any more.
You might guess I get really wound up when people generalise like you've been doing as there are good, bad and indifferent employees in ALL sectors yet you rarely hear someone saying that everybody in insurance is rubbish or that every retail worker deserves the sack.
Haven't you heard...I'm public sector and therefore part of a huge gravy train and should therefore be stoned! ;-)
I'll pack-up now and return to my mansion, driving home in a Bentley of course. Don't anyone try and come round to my place or I'll release the hounds! :-)
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]Right then. I'll clear my desk tomorrow and accept my fate along with everyone else. I just think people should be able to challenge decisions.
No no, it's far better point a shotgun to the head of every londoner, refuse to give your customers WHAT THEY PAY FOR, then later go bust and have everyone loose their job. That's what would happen in the real world, sadly Crowe knows that won't happen, as the underground can't really go 'bust' can it, so Crowe can continue to blackmail the rest of us and continue to strike forever until we finally give in. It's disgusting.
and tube strikes like this effect poor Londoners more, those in service industries on houry rates are badly effected. Easy for someone like me who can work from home, no so easy for a cleaner on minimum wage
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Why should TFL staff be immune from redundancy if everyone else from all walks of business are getting made redundant through no fault of their own also?
Hear hear.
Right then. I'll clear my desk tomorrow and accept my fate along with everyone else. I just think people should be able to challenge decisions.
If we were all to accept our fate and not push back would anything ever be achieved?
There have been questionable decisions made in our clubs history that threatened its every existence. People did not accept what was being said was right, rallied, formed a political party and won. Other people at the time did not agree with what was being done, questioned what we were doing, laughed at us, but we still did what we thought was right and look at us know. We're back at the Valley.
I also would say, and I appreciate that this is tenuous, but as a Public Sector worker my pay is considerably lower than other people in the equivalent field. What drew me to my role was the increased job security. Am I wrong in wanting that when I'm supporting a family?
I went through a redundancy consultation period myself, just a matter of months ago. The firm had less work coming in so maintaining the same workforce level was no longer possible. Of course we argued, of course we didn't lay down in silence. However, we all accepted that, in the current financial climate, it had to happen to safeguard the future of the firm. It's a sad fact of recession that a lot of people are going to lose their jobs... as Curb It says, why should TFL/LU staff be immune from that? They provide a service that no longer has the demand it once did...
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The thing is Crowe has to appeal to the drivers more then the staff at Broadway, and I don't see TSSA going out tomorrow.
Agreed. He has to do that as he knows that is where maximum impact is going to be. Leftbehind will confirm but it takes months to qualify as a driver and get the licence. Therefore they aren't easy to replace, it costs a lot to replace them and without them the network stops. If you wanted maximum impact to highlight your claims it is the thing to do I guess.
The thing is I'm not bothered about a pay increase. The cost of living has gone up since April 08 despite RPI currently being negative. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
[cite]Posted By: Les Addicks[/cite]You might guess I get really wound up when people generalise like you've been doing as there are good, bad and indifferent employees in ALL sectors yet you rarely hear someone saying that everybody in insurance is rubbish or that every retail worker deserves the sack.
Just to confirm, I don't happen to think tube workers are 'bad' in anyway. (Apart from the two numpties who got sacked)
[quote][cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]The thing is Crowe has to appeal to the drivers more then the staff at Broadway, and I don't see TSSA going out tomorrow.[/quote]
Agreed. He has to do that as he knows that is where maximum impact is going to be. Leftbehind will confirm but it takes months to qualify as a driver and get the licence. Therefore they aren't easy to replace, it costs a lot to replace them and without them the network stops. If you wanted maximum impact to highlight your claims it is the thing to do I guess.
The thing is I'm not bothered about a pay increase. The cost of living has gone up since April 08 despite RPI currently being negative. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.[/quote]
yep as i put them into training 6 months training very intense
And the other thing, the TfL staff are ex Metronet, which I believe Brother Crowe said were a "wasteful organisation"
Now unless Bob has changed his mind since Metronet came in house? There have been reducencies right across the public sector, you can carry the same amount of staff in a downturn with reduced tax takes and fare revenue. Otherwide you end up cutting services and maintance
What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
for your sake mate i hope that they realise this and remove some of them to mean the balance is there but unfortunatly your cause has been diluted because all crow cares about is his tube drivers money
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]and tube strikes like this effect poor Londoners more, those in service industries on houry rates are badly effected. Easy for someone like me who can work from home, no so easy for a cleaner on minimum wage
Incidently there are cleaners at Broadway who are on minimum wage who are RMT members who the union is also campaigning for. The strike is all encompassing and unfortunately the RMT has taken it's typical hard line of going for maximum affect by getting the LU drivers to walk out.
. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
Are you suggesting everyone else CAN afford to lose their job? The service your employer provides is being used less, therefore they need less staff, it's happening everywhere else in the country. No one likes it, no one thinks it's right, most people however accept it.
How many people do you think will not be able to feed their family this week because they can't work tomorrow?
On a lighter note with a tag of Les Addicks you would of thought with the French connotations you'd be in favour of strike action. The French love it after all! ;-)
[cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]jope there is not a picket line when i go in tomorrow
As far as I'm aware there is. Will be small though as the law states that any picket line cannot be larger than 6 or so people or it is claased as a full demo. Without the proper permission the people can then be moved on. You should be safe. Besides my aim with eggs is not that good! ;-)
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
for your sake mate i hope that they realise this and remove some of them to mean the balance is there but unfortunatly your cause has been diluted because all crow cares about is his tube drivers money
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]all crow cares about is his tube drivers money
You misspelt 'his giant ego'
gets bigger every time i see him on the TV had the displeasure of meeting the bloke a few times whilst i was active in the union i thought he was a piece of shit then and my mind has not changed one bit, many a true word said in drunk or jest my nan has always told me, believe me the man has said some things that would piss off a saint about his achievements
. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
Are you suggesting everyone else CAN afford to lose their job? The service your employer provides is being used less, therefore they need less staff, it's happening everywhere else in the country. No one likes it, no one thinks it's right, most people however accept it.
How many people do you think will not be able to feed their family this week because they can't work tomorrow?
I know. I appreciate I'm being selfish and that other very good people who have lost their jobs. They also were not in a position that I and other public sector workers find themselves in. I'm not saying it''s right, but I am saying that I'm looking out for my best interests and my families. I also know that this is at the detriment of others. I apologise for that fact but I'm just trying to keep the money coming in to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. That's about all my salary covers.
With respect to the figures....having just run a report to see yesterdays Oyster usage and compared it to the same point last year......the figures have increased. Appreciate this is only one day in 365 but I can't get the figures for an entire period with my level of access.
I'm in agreement with Sideways on this one:
I can't "argue" like some of yous guys on here, but Unions ARE nessesary.
I'm Self-Employed, but if I was working where a Union was active I would join.
I'd also never cross a picket-line (going back to why we fought the nazi's,free-speech,etc).
It shouldn't just be about "me,me,me".
Would this have been such a big deal if there was no game at Wembley tomorrow ?
And why aren't the Chiltern trains stopping at their normal Wembley stop tomorrow ?
[quote][cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: leftbehind[/cite]jope there is not a picket line when i go in tomorrow[/quote]
As far as I'm aware there is. Will be small though as the law states that any picket line cannot be larger than 6 or so people or it is claased as a full demo. Without the proper permission the people can then be moved on. You should be safe. Besides my aim with eggs is not that good! ;-)[/quote]
[cite]Posted By: Miserableold-ish git[/cite]I'm in agreement with Sideways on this one:
I can't "argue" like some of yous guys on here, but Unions ARE nessesary.
I'm Self-Employed, but if I was working where a Union was active I would join.
I'd also never cross a picket-line (going back to why we fought the nazi's,free-speech,etc).
It shouldn't just be about "me,me,me".
Would this have been such a big deal if there was no game at Wembley tomorrow ?
And why aren't the Chiltern trains stopping at their normal Wembley stop tomorrow ?
i agree with most of what you have wrote MOG but the footie bit is not relevant to me personally i care more about the fact that people who can not afford to be inconvienced like this are to be, i care more that people like Sideways's argument are diluted because Bob Crow wants his tube drivers to get an extortionant and disproportionate pay rise
for too long the general public have been shite on from a great height by Crow and his Cronies before him
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]On a lighter note with a tag of Les Addicks you would of thought with the French connotations you'd be in favour of strike action. The French love it after all! ;-)
Oddly enough I read somewhere recently that union membership in France is far less than it is here and that in days lost to industrial action we have lots of localised issues whereas they tend to 'co-ordinate' theirs much "better" and get more of an impact although overall it works out not a lot different. Just what I read so don't know if it's true but what I can tell you from personal experience is that many private sector employers there do take the utter p##s and the French (suprisingly) do lump it because the labour market is so poor. Unemployment was running at about 9-10% even a couple of years ago and most employees are already on minimum wage so big incentive not to lose your job.
Spain and Italy are still far worse for strikes I reckon.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]With respect to the figures....having just run a report to see yesterdays Oyster usage and compared it to the same point last year......the figures have increased. Appreciate this is only one day in 365 but I can't get the figures for an entire period with my level of access.
So this doesn't include commuters who come in from outside the Oyster card zone... ie those that still have a paper ticket as their travelcard?
. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
Are you suggesting everyone else CAN afford to lose their job? The service your employer provides is being used less, therefore they need less staff, it's happening everywhere else in the country. No one likes it, no one thinks it's right, most people however accept it.
How many people do you think will not be able to feed their family this week because they can't work tomorrow?
I know. I appreciate I'm being selfish and that other very good people who have lost their jobs. They also were not in a position that I and other public sector workers find themselves in. I'm not saying it''s right, but I am saying that I'm looking out for my best interests and my families. I also know that this is at the detriment of others. I apologise for that fact but I'm just trying to keep the money coming in to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. That's about all my salary covers.
With respect to the figures....having just run a report to see yesterdays Oyster usage and compared it to the same point last year......the figures have increased. Appreciate this is only one day in 365 but I can't get the figures for an entire period with my level of access.
Dont apologise and worry about feeling selfish, I certainly wouldnt considering what TfL pay. The RMT does a good job for its members, its there for them not the rest of us. I can remember both Ken and Borris wanted a no strike policy but I suppose TfL are not prepared to trade that in return for for job protection.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]With respect to the figures....having just run a report to see yesterdays Oyster usage and compared it to the same point last year......the figures have increased. Appreciate this is only one day in 365 but I can't get the figures for an entire period with my level of access.
I said less people are travelling, not that less people are using Oyster Cards, you know yourself over the last year the difference in price between oyster/non oyster users has grown significantly, so really a bit of a non-issue.
[cite]Posted By: Sideways[/cite]I know. I appreciate I'm being selfish and that other very good people who have lost their jobs. They also were not in a position that I and other public sector workers find themselves in. I'm not saying it''s right, but I am saying that I'm looking out for my best interests and my families. I also know that this is at the detriment of others. I apologise for that fact but I'm just trying to keep the money coming in to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. That's about all my salary covers.
No need to apologise, I don't think anyone is having a go at you or anyone for protecting themselves and their families. I think peoples issue is the way that tosspot egomaniac Crowe has gone about it.
Comments
no mate you are not wrong unfortunatly similar to those poor people at Cheltenham and gloster (spelling sorry) the times have changed and we are all suffering
Appreciate where you are coming from but it does happen in the private sector. For example didn't truckers strike over the cost of fuel and the threat it was having on their businesses and livelihoods? Didn’t Baggage handlers and check-in staff strike over pay and conditions? Both groups, and I could be wrong, worked in the private sector.
dont think the truckers took strike action they tried to bring grid lock to the roadways not only to safe gaurd their jobs but to try to stop everyone paying extortionate fuel prices, Baggage handlers i feel the same as tube drivers strking hitting the poor members of public and ruining their week piss poor on both counts tube drivers and baggage handlers
Haven't you heard...I'm public sector and therefore part of a huge gravy train and should therefore be stoned! ;-)
I'll pack-up now and return to my mansion, driving home in a Bentley of course. Don't anyone try and come round to my place or I'll release the hounds! :-)
No no, it's far better point a shotgun to the head of every londoner, refuse to give your customers WHAT THEY PAY FOR, then later go bust and have everyone loose their job. That's what would happen in the real world, sadly Crowe knows that won't happen, as the underground can't really go 'bust' can it, so Crowe can continue to blackmail the rest of us and continue to strike forever until we finally give in. It's disgusting.
I went through a redundancy consultation period myself, just a matter of months ago. The firm had less work coming in so maintaining the same workforce level was no longer possible. Of course we argued, of course we didn't lay down in silence. However, we all accepted that, in the current financial climate, it had to happen to safeguard the future of the firm. It's a sad fact of recession that a lot of people are going to lose their jobs... as Curb It says, why should TFL/LU staff be immune from that? They provide a service that no longer has the demand it once did...
Agreed. He has to do that as he knows that is where maximum impact is going to be. Leftbehind will confirm but it takes months to qualify as a driver and get the licence. Therefore they aren't easy to replace, it costs a lot to replace them and without them the network stops. If you wanted maximum impact to highlight your claims it is the thing to do I guess.
The thing is I'm not bothered about a pay increase. The cost of living has gone up since April 08 despite RPI currently being negative. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.
Just to confirm, I don't happen to think tube workers are 'bad' in anyway. (Apart from the two numpties who got sacked)
Agreed. He has to do that as he knows that is where maximum impact is going to be. Leftbehind will confirm but it takes months to qualify as a driver and get the licence. Therefore they aren't easy to replace, it costs a lot to replace them and without them the network stops. If you wanted maximum impact to highlight your claims it is the thing to do I guess.
The thing is I'm not bothered about a pay increase. The cost of living has gone up since April 08 despite RPI currently being negative. I can afford to take the hit on that. What I can't afford is to loose my job completely especially when at TfL there are loads of chiefs and not enough indians like me.[/quote]
yep as i put them into training
6 months training very intense
Now unless Bob has changed his mind since Metronet came in house? There have been reducencies right across the public sector, you can carry the same amount of staff in a downturn with reduced tax takes and fare revenue. Otherwide you end up cutting services and maintance
for your sake mate i hope that they realise this and remove some of them to mean the balance is there but unfortunatly your cause has been diluted because all crow cares about is his tube drivers money
Incidently there are cleaners at Broadway who are on minimum wage who are RMT members who the union is also campaigning for. The strike is all encompassing and unfortunately the RMT has taken it's typical hard line of going for maximum affect by getting the LU drivers to walk out.
Are you suggesting everyone else CAN afford to lose their job? The service your employer provides is being used less, therefore they need less staff, it's happening everywhere else in the country. No one likes it, no one thinks it's right, most people however accept it.
How many people do you think will not be able to feed their family this week because they can't work tomorrow?
wouldnt think their would be it is supposed to be raining they will be laying in bed asleep instead of sleeping in the drivers cariage
As far as I'm aware there is. Will be small though as the law states that any picket line cannot be larger than 6 or so people or it is claased as a full demo. Without the proper permission the people can then be moved on. You should be safe. Besides my aim with eggs is not that good! ;-)
I think you are right.
You misspelt 'his giant ego'
gets bigger every time i see him on the TV had the displeasure of meeting the bloke a few times whilst i was active in the union i thought he was a piece of shit then and my mind has not changed one bit, many a true word said in drunk or jest my nan has always told me, believe me the man has said some things that would piss off a saint about his achievements
I know. I appreciate I'm being selfish and that other very good people who have lost their jobs. They also were not in a position that I and other public sector workers find themselves in. I'm not saying it''s right, but I am saying that I'm looking out for my best interests and my families. I also know that this is at the detriment of others. I apologise for that fact but I'm just trying to keep the money coming in to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. That's about all my salary covers.
With respect to the figures....having just run a report to see yesterdays Oyster usage and compared it to the same point last year......the figures have increased. Appreciate this is only one day in 365 but I can't get the figures for an entire period with my level of access.
I can't "argue" like some of yous guys on here, but Unions ARE nessesary.
I'm Self-Employed, but if I was working where a Union was active I would join.
I'd also never cross a picket-line (going back to why we fought the nazi's,free-speech,etc).
It shouldn't just be about "me,me,me".
Would this have been such a big deal if there was no game at Wembley tomorrow ?
And why aren't the Chiltern trains stopping at their normal Wembley stop tomorrow ?
As far as I'm aware there is. Will be small though as the law states that any picket line cannot be larger than 6 or so people or it is claased as a full demo. Without the proper permission the people can then be moved on. You should be safe. Besides my aim with eggs is not that good! ;-)[/quote]
Cheers mate
i agree with most of what you have wrote MOG but the footie bit is not relevant to me personally i care more about the fact that people who can not afford to be inconvienced like this are to be, i care more that people like Sideways's argument are diluted because Bob Crow wants his tube drivers to get an extortionant and disproportionate pay rise
for too long the general public have been shite on from a great height by Crow and his Cronies before him
Oddly enough I read somewhere recently that union membership in France is far less than it is here and that in days lost to industrial action we have lots of localised issues whereas they tend to 'co-ordinate' theirs much "better" and get more of an impact although overall it works out not a lot different. Just what I read so don't know if it's true but what I can tell you from personal experience is that many private sector employers there do take the utter p##s and the French (suprisingly) do lump it because the labour market is so poor. Unemployment was running at about 9-10% even a couple of years ago and most employees are already on minimum wage so big incentive not to lose your job.
Spain and Italy are still far worse for strikes I reckon.
So this doesn't include commuters who come in from outside the Oyster card zone... ie those that still have a paper ticket as their travelcard?
Dont apologise and worry about feeling selfish, I certainly wouldnt considering what TfL pay. The RMT does a good job for its members, its there for them not the rest of us. I can remember both Ken and Borris wanted a no strike policy but I suppose TfL are not prepared to trade that in return for for job protection.
I said less people are travelling, not that less people are using Oyster Cards, you know yourself over the last year the difference in price between oyster/non oyster users has grown significantly, so really a bit of a non-issue.
No need to apologise, I don't think anyone is having a go at you or anyone for protecting themselves and their families. I think peoples issue is the way that tosspot egomaniac Crowe has gone about it.