Even though Worner's height should not be much of a problem as there are plenty of very good keepers including lower down the leagues who are only just 6ft (Speroni, Heaton at Cardiff for example). I would be very hesitant to put Worner in too soon, especially against a side like Tranmere who have some very tall/hench players and they may target him. At Prenton Park, he played very well and this was not an issue but think away from home Tranmere may try to exploit it more.
I have been and remain a fan of Robbie, in early November and up until the Exeter game, I thought he was showing some of his best form for the club and seemed to be reaching a good level of performance. However, he has had two nightmares in the last two home games and his weaknesses have been shown with handling and near post- anyone at Hartlepool watching the warm up, there were two carbon copies of the Exeter first goal when the ball went under his body at the near post and this needs some work.
Nevertheless, I believe he has not been aided by the defence (for the 3rd Exeter goal, first Carlisle one) and maybe he needs to play through this bad form. Unless we can get in someone noticably better (Kirkland mentioned but we have no chance), imho I think we need to address the centre of defence first and this in turn should help Robbie. Defenders always talk of the need for a good and confident keeper behind them, pretty sure it would help Robbie if he had more confidence in the CBs which is not there with the Doc and Fortune.
A new CB or maybe Fry there should be a priority ahead of a change in goal.
If you watch the warm ups, Ben Roberts spends 10 minutes whacking shots in from distance on Elliott, and he hardly saves a single one, mainly cause he doesn't move his feet. His handling and commanding of the area is poor, the second on Tuesday was a classic example, and he doesn't talk to his back four.
Worner is an interesting one, he looks like he's got everything to be a decent keeper, but is he ready yet to play 15 games in the run in?
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]
Worner is an interesting one, he looks like he's got everything to be a decent keeper, but is he ready yet to play 15 games in the run in?
If we don't, and he leaves on a free and goes on to win player of the year somewhere I'll be mightily pissed off!
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]
Worner is an interesting one, he looks like he's got everything to be a decent keeper, but is he ready yet to play 15 games in the run in?
If we don't, and he leaves on a free and goes on to win player of the year somewhere I'll be mightily pissed off!
Oh agreed, thought he looked good in the 3 or 4 he played when the Flying Doughnut* was out, Elliott has had a fantastically easy ride from the supporters too.
* the phrase 'Flying Doughnut' is under copyright to Riscardo, aged 27
Without harking back to the Ikeme story, the fact is Parky never fancied him (and said he could go in January) until he was forced to play him. And by the time Randy was given a run he was out of contract. And our very own Christian D (who has played with a few keepers) recommended him to Motherwell.
Now Motherwell fans are talking about cashing in on him for £millions.
The thing about being guaranteed first team football is a complete red herring as he was told that he would have to fight for his place at Motherwell. Parky didn't fancy him in October and told him he could go in January if we had a replacement for him. Robbie got injured, Randy subsequently proved his worth and went to Motherwell on the recommendation of Christian D because we couldn't afford two first Team keepers fighting for the spot.
A record 16 clean sheets to date, on course for POTY, played in Europe and now in the shop window. A backward step for Randy imho.
Worner looks to small and too slight - he has no real presence and I fear that he will be bullied. A keeper going for across needs to frighten the oncoming striker, not vice versa. In answer to the next question - I have seen him play 5 or 6 times for first team & reserves this season. By all means he should be given a run of games though - he is the number 2.
We need a better Goalkeeper, i know rob is a charlton fan etc and everyone loves him because of that, fair dos but the fact is he isn't consistent enough and doesn't seem to be getting any better (maybe having no experienced gk pushing him for the no.1 has got him thinking he has the shirt regardless). Randolph came in last season and showed us what a difference it was to have a GK that the defence were comfortable with. I have a feeling Randolphs personality didn't match what Parky wanted for the club hence why when Pards was here, Randolph was 2nd in line and looking as if he was going to be the future no.1, when Pards was sacked, Robbie got the No.1 job instead of Randolph.
Biggest mistake was letting Randolph go, he earned the no.1 spot for this season with his performances at the end of last season (his save against Leeds in the last minute was the best i've seen since Deano vs Birmingham in 2003 - Outstanding it was)
Swisdom will know better than me on this point but I would have thought that the relationship between goalkeeping coach and goalkeeper is a close one as they spend so much time together. This perceived (I say perceived because Doherty was more to blame against Exeter imo) loss of form does seem to have coincided with the change in goalkeeping coach. I'm not criticising Ben Roberts, far too early, but perhaps they are not used to each others methods of working yet and that has impacted on his recent performances.
I have to say that I've thought Robbie has looked more commanding of his area of late and arguably that is why he gave the penalty away against Exeter in trying to bail Doc out.
Robbie is committed to the cause. We should support him not slate him. Others are more to blame for our slump in form than him.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Swisdom will know better than me on this point but I would have thought that the relationship between goalkeeping coach and goalkeeper is a close one as they spend so much time together. This perceived (I say perceived because Doherty was more to blame against Exeter imo) loss of form does seem to have coincided with the change in goalkeeping coach. I'm not criticising Ben Roberts, far too early, but perhaps they are not used to each others methods of working yet and that has impacted on his recent performances.
I have to say that I've thought Robbie has looked more commanding of his area of late and arguably that is why he gave the penalty away against Exeter in trying to bail Doc out.
Robbie is committed to the cause. We should support him not slate him. Others are more to blame for our slump in form than him.
Others are at fault but he has never been communicative enough, he has always looked overweight and he's always had bad footwork. I'd like to think Roberts would have addressed this immediately.
He should be leading from the back and bollocking his defenders if they aren't pulling out wide quickly enough - not just flapping his arms around.
He looks low on confidence and he needs to sit a few games out. I honestly think Worner could be decent but without a run of games we'll never know.
Having said that I guess they see them in training more than we do so I will trust their judgement
So letting Randolph was a real howler by Parky non?
And before anyone says that's with the benefit of hindsight, Oohaah for one has pointed out (correctly) that Randolph is a far better keeper than Elliot for at least the last 12 months
Elliott is piss poor.
I have always said he is not up to league 1 standard and I am starting to think he has been lucky to get into our team week in- week out.
Still reckon Ben Roberts could do a better job than him!
I saw randolph in the co op at the end of last season and asked him if he was staying, he said he wanted to but only if he he was gaurenteed the number 1 jersey but he said parky was not willing to commit so he was probably leaving to get first team football
[cite]Posted By: Swisdom[/cite]Others are at fault but he has never been communicative enough, he has always looked overweight and he's always had bad footwork. I'd like to think Roberts would have addressed this immediately.
He should be leading from the back and bollocking his defenders if they aren't pulling out wide quickly enough - not just flapping his arms around.
He looks low on confidence and he needs to sit a few games out. I honestly think Worner could be decent but without a run of games we'll never know.
Oh how I agree with this. I really like Robbie. He is Charlton through and through, and yet.......
I feel that he has weaknesses which need to be addressed starting with his lack of communication. I realise you can't hear very well up in The East Block C Row Z, but I just don't see him anything like commanding enough.
It is always hard to criticise keepers, especially when they do pull off great saves from time to time.
I grew up with the likes of Gordon Banks, Peter Bonetti, Gary Spake, Alex Stepney, Bob Wilson and Pat Jennings. Then later on Shilton, Clemence then Grobellaer and finally the likes of Schmichael.
Peter Bonetti (The Cat) was agile but eratic. Bearing in mind the talent that Chelsea had in their team, I always thought that Bonetti was the weak link in their defence. Banks was efficient and agile. Sprake was a disaster waiting to happen but could be inspired - again I wonder how much more Leeds would have won with a different keeper. Stepney was greatly under-rated but was a competent consistent performer. Jennings was a freak with massive hands and a real commanding presence. Wilson was efficient and consistent.
Shilton was a brilliant keeper, probably the best of all English keepers (difficult to compare with Banks because Banks career was cruelly cut short). He was commanding, demonstrative and agile. Clemence was efficient but marginally less so than Shilton. Grob was a one off, capable of amazing saves but completely mad and unpredictable. Schmichael was the foreign equivalent of Shilton - decisive, demonstrative and totally dominated his area.
We can't expect to have a keeper of the standard of Banks/Jennings/Shilton/Schmichael (or maybe the others I have mentioned) but the point is, it is all relative to your resources and your league standard. I am convinced that we have to either ensure that Robbie is able to improve in his areas of weakness by good old fashioned coaching, or we need a more commanding figure in his place.
There are definitely more pressing areas of the team that need addressing before the focus falls on Robbie but come the close season I will be astonished if some serious competition at least is not brought to the club.
i think thats why its important we have a goalkeeping coach at the club, because our two first team keepers are (relatively) inexperienced, especially in the case of worner and they both need further development.
An experienced keeper (not necessarily a veteran) coming to the club would add much needed competition for the jersey and I hope SCP brings another in during the summer
Just been reading Powelly's postmatch comments on the OS:
"Elliot suffered a hip problem in the first half and was replaced at the break by Ross Worner, who himself picked up a dead leg.
"Rob's got a hip problem," confirmed Powell. "He's had it on and off and we've been managing it. He felt it towards half-time and he'll be assessed."
Hip problem, on-going and playing games carrying that same old injury. Might also explain Elliot's lack of quick feet?
Note also Worner has picked up a dead leg.
Have we got keeper problems for Tuesday ....?
Comments
I have been and remain a fan of Robbie, in early November and up until the Exeter game, I thought he was showing some of his best form for the club and seemed to be reaching a good level of performance. However, he has had two nightmares in the last two home games and his weaknesses have been shown with handling and near post- anyone at Hartlepool watching the warm up, there were two carbon copies of the Exeter first goal when the ball went under his body at the near post and this needs some work.
Nevertheless, I believe he has not been aided by the defence (for the 3rd Exeter goal, first Carlisle one) and maybe he needs to play through this bad form. Unless we can get in someone noticably better (Kirkland mentioned but we have no chance), imho I think we need to address the centre of defence first and this in turn should help Robbie. Defenders always talk of the need for a good and confident keeper behind them, pretty sure it would help Robbie if he had more confidence in the CBs which is not there with the Doc and Fortune.
A new CB or maybe Fry there should be a priority ahead of a change in goal.
Did he reject our offer of a new contract or was he not offered one?
Where is he now?
We could not guarantee first team football which he wanted. Can't remember if there was a formal contract offer
Motherwell, linked with Celtic and on course for their POTY according to their message boards.
That's funny! That just reminded me introduce my young daughter to The Goonies! Cheers.
If you watch the warm ups, Ben Roberts spends 10 minutes whacking shots in from distance on Elliott, and he hardly saves a single one, mainly cause he doesn't move his feet. His handling and commanding of the area is poor, the second on Tuesday was a classic example, and he doesn't talk to his back four.
Worner is an interesting one, he looks like he's got everything to be a decent keeper, but is he ready yet to play 15 games in the run in?
If we don't, and he leaves on a free and goes on to win player of the year somewhere I'll be mightily pissed off!
Oh agreed, thought he looked good in the 3 or 4 he played when the Flying Doughnut* was out, Elliott has had a fantastically easy ride from the supporters too.
* the phrase 'Flying Doughnut' is under copyright to Riscardo, aged 27
The thing about being guaranteed first team football is a complete red herring as he was told that he would have to fight for his place at Motherwell. Parky didn't fancy him in October and told him he could go in January if we had a replacement for him. Robbie got injured, Randy subsequently proved his worth and went to Motherwell on the recommendation of Christian D because we couldn't afford two first Team keepers fighting for the spot.
A record 16 clean sheets to date, on course for POTY, played in Europe and now in the shop window. A backward step for Randy imho.
Biggest mistake was letting Randolph go, he earned the no.1 spot for this season with his performances at the end of last season (his save against Leeds in the last minute was the best i've seen since Deano vs Birmingham in 2003 - Outstanding it was)
It just got progressively worse over the next 3 matches.
Give him a few games on the bench, take the pressure off a little. he did make a first class save in the Carlisle match as I recall.
I personally preferred Flying Spud......much more accurate description for me
I have to say that I've thought Robbie has looked more commanding of his area of late and arguably that is why he gave the penalty away against Exeter in trying to bail Doc out.
Robbie is committed to the cause. We should support him not slate him. Others are more to blame for our slump in form than him.
Others are at fault but he has never been communicative enough, he has always looked overweight and he's always had bad footwork. I'd like to think Roberts would have addressed this immediately.
He should be leading from the back and bollocking his defenders if they aren't pulling out wide quickly enough - not just flapping his arms around.
He looks low on confidence and he needs to sit a few games out. I honestly think Worner could be decent but without a run of games we'll never know.
Having said that I guess they see them in training more than we do so I will trust their judgement
i know it's different people but last seasons judgement couldn't have been more wrong!
And before anyone says that's with the benefit of hindsight, Oohaah for one has pointed out (correctly) that Randolph is a far better keeper than Elliot for at least the last 12 months
I have always said he is not up to league 1 standard and I am starting to think he has been lucky to get into our team week in- week out.
Still reckon Ben Roberts could do a better job than him!
Worth another piece of chunk!
Oh how I agree with this. I really like Robbie. He is Charlton through and through, and yet.......
I feel that he has weaknesses which need to be addressed starting with his lack of communication. I realise you can't hear very well up in The East Block C Row Z, but I just don't see him anything like commanding enough.
It is always hard to criticise keepers, especially when they do pull off great saves from time to time.
I grew up with the likes of Gordon Banks, Peter Bonetti, Gary Spake, Alex Stepney, Bob Wilson and Pat Jennings. Then later on Shilton, Clemence then Grobellaer and finally the likes of Schmichael.
Peter Bonetti (The Cat) was agile but eratic. Bearing in mind the talent that Chelsea had in their team, I always thought that Bonetti was the weak link in their defence. Banks was efficient and agile. Sprake was a disaster waiting to happen but could be inspired - again I wonder how much more Leeds would have won with a different keeper. Stepney was greatly under-rated but was a competent consistent performer. Jennings was a freak with massive hands and a real commanding presence. Wilson was efficient and consistent.
Shilton was a brilliant keeper, probably the best of all English keepers (difficult to compare with Banks because Banks career was cruelly cut short). He was commanding, demonstrative and agile. Clemence was efficient but marginally less so than Shilton. Grob was a one off, capable of amazing saves but completely mad and unpredictable. Schmichael was the foreign equivalent of Shilton - decisive, demonstrative and totally dominated his area.
We can't expect to have a keeper of the standard of Banks/Jennings/Shilton/Schmichael (or maybe the others I have mentioned) but the point is, it is all relative to your resources and your league standard. I am convinced that we have to either ensure that Robbie is able to improve in his areas of weakness by good old fashioned coaching, or we need a more commanding figure in his place.
An experienced keeper (not necessarily a veteran) coming to the club would add much needed competition for the jersey and I hope SCP brings another in during the summer
And how did Worner play?
Incidentally, I see Randolph shipped 3 goals against Inverness Caley today.
Just been reading Powelly's postmatch comments on the OS:
"Elliot suffered a hip problem in the first half and was replaced at the break by Ross Worner, who himself picked up a dead leg.
"Rob's got a hip problem," confirmed Powell. "He's had it on and off and we've been managing it. He felt it towards half-time and he'll be assessed."
Hip problem, on-going and playing games carrying that same old injury. Might also explain Elliot's lack of quick feet?
Note also Worner has picked up a dead leg.
Have we got keeper problems for Tuesday ....?