Bedsaddick can i just say that anyone who says... "Women linesmen . What next , women driving cars??" and thinks that's funny deserves all of their corner darkened for having such a weak sense of humour.
The really arent the full ticket are you curb-it?
By making that ignorant statement you have just shown it is you who has zero sence of humour.
Now go away son.
Oh dear.............
Sorry but i get royally p*****d off when someone attacks me for no reason.
[cite]Posted By: bobbing along[/cite]And another thing: comparing the issues of racism and sexism is simply wrong. There are clear differences between the two sexes. Why is sport so male dominated? Why do you never see a female trainspotter? Why do women prefer shopping? Women that enter the world of football are, by and large, mimicking male culture. You could argue that these patterns of behavioural differences result solely from the social conditioning we all undergo as children. But you'd be wrong. Boy gorrillas play with sticks as weapons, girl gorrillas play with sticks as dolls. There are inherant differences between males and females, aside from the obvious ones of body shape and function. Comparing the contrast between blacks and whites with the contrast between man and woman is a completely rubbish, lazy, and insulting, argument.
I am afraid you have missed the point completely. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice. Pre judging people purely by their race or sex. This leads to discrimination, the denying of the right to do things by dint of racial group or sex. What you are talking about is completely different.
The woman referee was the victim of a sexist comment pre-judging her as not understanding the offside rule because she was a woman. That's it, nothing else.
Its that prejudicial approach both to the issue of race and of sex that needs to be confronted and exposed.
Imagine if somebody said to you you weren't allowed to cook because men do not know how to cook? This is manifestly untrue, its a sexist remark and it is founded on a prejudice against men.
There's absolutely zero place for behaviour like Gray's in modern society, imo.
The irony of him being sacked by the organisation that brings us the Soccerette and is owned by the same company as the paper which brought the world page 3 has to be acknowledged.
I'm also tempted to say Ms. Jackson should have thought about the portrayal of women as sex objects before she agreed to some of the photo shoots that pop up if you run a google images search on her.
[cite]Posted By: bobbing along[/cite]And another thing: comparing the issues of racism and sexism is simply wrong. There are clear differences between the two sexes. Why is sport so male dominated? Why do you never see a female trainspotter? Why do women prefer shopping? Women that enter the world of football are, by and large, mimicking male culture. You could argue that these patterns of behavioural differences result solely from the social conditioning we all undergo as children. But you'd be wrong. Boy gorrillas play with sticks as weapons, girl gorrillas play with sticks as dolls. There are inherant differences between males and females, aside from the obvious ones of body shape and function. Comparing the contrast between blacks and whites with the contrast between man and woman is a completely rubbish, lazy, and insulting, argument.
I am afraid you have missed the point completely. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice. Pre judging people purely by their race or sex. This leads to discrimination, the denying of the right to do things by dint of racial group or sex. What you are talking about is completely different.
The woman referee was the victim of a sexist comment pre-judging her as not understanding the offside rule because she was a woman. That's it, nothing else.
Its that prejudicial approach both to the issue of race and of sex that needs to be confronted and exposed.
Imagine if somebody said to you you weren't allowed to cook because men do not know how to cook? This is manifestly untrue, its a sexist remark and it is founded on a prejudice against men.
don't forget ageism. imagine the uproar if people were allowed to put up things like 'only 2 schoolchildren at a time' in their shop window.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Bedsaddick can i just say that anyone who says... "Women linesmen . What next , women driving cars??" and thinks that's funny deserves all of their corner darkened for having such a weak sense of humour.
[cite]Posted By: Bedsaddick[/cite]The really arent the full ticket are you curb-it?
By making that ignorant statement you have just shown it is you who has zero sence of humour.
Now go away son.
The only time i ever see threads started on here about the fairer sex is either preposed by the ever enlightened, valuing of female qualities question of "Would Ya?" or when Valley Gary is about to nail one.
Without going into the moral rights and wrongs of this particular subject in this thread there is still more than a slight hypocrisy in people shouting down Gray and Keys for comments in what they thought was a private conversation at work when Im sure many of us have posted "unsuitable" comments on this public forum in the aforementioned threads, many of us whilst at work, albeit hiding behind a pseudonym.
[cite]Posted By: Bedsaddick[/cite]The really arent the full ticket are you curb-it?
By making that ignorant statement you have just shown it is you who has zero sence of humour.
Now go away son.
Gray made himself look a proper tool with his comments - surely the embarassment is punishment enough?
I don't like him by any stretch of the imagination...its more about my sense of unease that it is now acceptable to dob people in to the PC police for any (albeit very ill judged) thoughtless remark.
Give it ten years and we will start seeing people sent off for 're-education' and you know where that all ends....
I believe in free speech. You have the right to hold stupid, unfashionable opinions, and I have the right to call you a dick for making them. No-one needs to lose their livelihood or be arrested. People are acting like tantrum throwing teenagers about this and now the duty not to offend the easily offended is more important than any concept of free thought or expression. A free country? Don't make me laugh.
The interesting thing about this is that the party who was insulted has just shrugged it off as the idiotic opinion of a cretin and got on with doing her job (which to Gray's embarassment, she is doing pretty damn well). Now it has blown up out of all proportion due to people getting offended on her behalf and...she can't do her job anymore (at least for the foreseeable future, anyway). That sums up this non-story perfectly IMHO.
[cite]Posted By: bobbing along[/cite]And another thing: comparing the issues of racism and sexism is simply wrong. There are clear differences between the two sexes. Why is sport so male dominated? Why do you never see a female trainspotter? Why do women prefer shopping? Women that enter the world of football are, by and large, mimicking male culture. You could argue that these patterns of behavioural differences result solely from the social conditioning we all undergo as children. But you'd be wrong. Boy gorrillas play with sticks as weapons, girl gorrillas play with sticks as dolls. There are inherant differences between males and females, aside from the obvious ones of body shape and function. Comparing the contrast between blacks and whites with the contrast between man and woman is a completely rubbish, lazy, and insulting, argument.
I am afraid you have missed the point completely. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice. Pre judging people purely by their race or sex. This leads to discrimination, the denying of the right to do things by dint of racial group or sex. What you are talking about is completely different.
The woman referee was the victim of a sexist comment pre-judging her as not understanding the offside rule because she was a woman. That's it, nothing else.
Its that prejudicial approach both to the issue of race and of sex that needs to be confronted and exposed.
Imagine if somebody said to you you weren't allowed to cook because men do not know how to cook? This is manifestly untrue, its a sexist remark and it is founded on a prejudice against men.
But this isnt about the denial of oppurtunity. its about the reaction to a sexist comment. someone made the point that if it was a racist comment then people wouldnt see Grays sacking as unfair. For me, racism and sexism arent on the same plain. There are widely recognised differences between the sexes, which makes tongue-in-cheek sexist stereo-typing less outrageous
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]The only time i ever see threads started on here about the fairer sex is either preposed by the ever enlightened, valuing of female qualities question of "Would Ya?" or when Valley Gary is about to nail one.
Oh please Rodders. dont forget the classy ''would wallop that'' opener to the countdown onanists special
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]I believe in free speech. You have the right to hold stupid, unfashionable opinions, and I have the right to call you a dick for making them. No-one needs to lose their livelihood or be arrested. People are acting like tantrum throwing teenagers about this and now the duty not to offend the easily offended is more important than any concept of free thought or expression. A free country? Don't make me laugh.
I believe in free speech as well. On the other hand we are dealing with prejudice. One persons free speech is another persons misery and lack of opportunity.
I remember when Black people couldn't go to watch their local football team for fear of racism and hostility. Black players were regularly abused by people exercising their "freedom of speech" by uttering monkey chants and worse.
Fortunately by a combination of enlightenment and enforcement, this has pretty much been stamped out.
Professional Football used also to be a virtually women free zone. In recent years the game has opened up massively and women have become just as passionate and knowledgeable as men.
This is why Sky can't afford this kind of sexist behaviour. They have been instrumental in widening the audience for football and anything which is offensive to or prejudicial against women's involvement in the game is a PR disaster for them.
Despite the comments you make about the descent into an 1984 type world, I really don't think this is remotely likely. Although there is legislation regarding equality of opportunity, we are not throwing people in jail. Gray has lost his job but he hasn't been arrested.
I think that sexism and sexist remarks especially around football will gradually become a thing of the past. If anything this sorry episode has done, it has focussed on this issue and probably will act as the catalyst for change.
[cite]Posted By: bobbing along[/cite]But this isnt about the denial of oppurtunity. its about the reaction to a sexist comment. someone made the point that if it was a racist comment then people wouldnt see Grays sacking as unfair. For me, racism and sexism arent on the same plain. There are widely recognised differences between the sexes, which makes tongue-in-cheek sexist stereo-typing less outrageous
You are still missing the point. I have said what I've said. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice and discrimination. All the other stuff about differences has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Comments
Sorry but i get royally p*****d off when someone attacks me for no reason.
[/quote]
Now that is irony at it's very best.
in what way?
I am afraid you have missed the point completely. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice. Pre judging people purely by their race or sex. This leads to discrimination, the denying of the right to do things by dint of racial group or sex. What you are talking about is completely different.
The woman referee was the victim of a sexist comment pre-judging her as not understanding the offside rule because she was a woman. That's it, nothing else.
Its that prejudicial approach both to the issue of race and of sex that needs to be confronted and exposed.
Imagine if somebody said to you you weren't allowed to cook because men do not know how to cook? This is manifestly untrue, its a sexist remark and it is founded on a prejudice against men.
The irony of him being sacked by the organisation that brings us the Soccerette and is owned by the same company as the paper which brought the world page 3 has to be acknowledged.
I'm also tempted to say Ms. Jackson should have thought about the portrayal of women as sex objects before she agreed to some of the photo shoots that pop up if you run a google images search on her.
don't forget ageism. imagine the uproar if people were allowed to put up things like 'only 2 schoolchildren at a time' in their shop window.
Without going into the moral rights and wrongs of this particular subject in this thread there is still more than a slight hypocrisy in people shouting down Gray and Keys for comments in what they thought was a private conversation at work when Im sure many of us have posted "unsuitable" comments on this public forum in the aforementioned threads, many of us whilst at work, albeit hiding behind a pseudonym.
And an Aha from me too!
I don't like him by any stretch of the imagination...its more about my sense of unease that it is now acceptable to dob people in to the PC police for any (albeit very ill judged) thoughtless remark.
Give it ten years and we will start seeing people sent off for 're-education' and you know where that all ends....
I believe in free speech. You have the right to hold stupid, unfashionable opinions, and I have the right to call you a dick for making them. No-one needs to lose their livelihood or be arrested. People are acting like tantrum throwing teenagers about this and now the duty not to offend the easily offended is more important than any concept of free thought or expression. A free country? Don't make me laugh.
The interesting thing about this is that the party who was insulted has just shrugged it off as the idiotic opinion of a cretin and got on with doing her job (which to Gray's embarassment, she is doing pretty damn well). Now it has blown up out of all proportion due to people getting offended on her behalf and...she can't do her job anymore (at least for the foreseeable future, anyway). That sums up this non-story perfectly IMHO.
EDIT: Video removed by uploader
But this isnt about the denial of oppurtunity. its about the reaction to a sexist comment. someone made the point that if it was a racist comment then people wouldnt see Grays sacking as unfair. For me, racism and sexism arent on the same plain. There are widely recognised differences between the sexes, which makes tongue-in-cheek sexist stereo-typing less outrageous
Oh please Rodders. dont forget the classy ''would wallop that'' opener to the countdown onanists special
Plain or caramel before bedtime?
First bit was my take on the outrageous start to the ''Countdown bird'' thread which I thought you could have included in your post!
I believe in free speech as well. On the other hand we are dealing with prejudice. One persons free speech is another persons misery and lack of opportunity.
I remember when Black people couldn't go to watch their local football team for fear of racism and hostility. Black players were regularly abused by people exercising their "freedom of speech" by uttering monkey chants and worse.
Fortunately by a combination of enlightenment and enforcement, this has pretty much been stamped out.
Professional Football used also to be a virtually women free zone. In recent years the game has opened up massively and women have become just as passionate and knowledgeable as men.
This is why Sky can't afford this kind of sexist behaviour. They have been instrumental in widening the audience for football and anything which is offensive to or prejudicial against women's involvement in the game is a PR disaster for them.
Despite the comments you make about the descent into an 1984 type world, I really don't think this is remotely likely. Although there is legislation regarding equality of opportunity, we are not throwing people in jail. Gray has lost his job but he hasn't been arrested.
I think that sexism and sexist remarks especially around football will gradually become a thing of the past. If anything this sorry episode has done, it has focussed on this issue and probably will act as the catalyst for change.
You are still missing the point. I have said what I've said. Racism and Sexism are about prejudice and discrimination. All the other stuff about differences has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Care to divulge it's content Gary?
Its an off the air video of Keys making lewd remarks about Jamie Redknapps wife, whilst they are all sitting around in the studio.
If he had any balls about him, which he obviously doesn't, then he would resign as well because he sparked the original incident.
With friends like that.....