I understand that SLL but that is even more damning.
No fan, steward, police officer heard that? Or none of them wanted to report it?
God knows, you'd have to ask the stewards & police.
As for the fans, I'm disappointed nobody pulled him up, it's happened elsewhere in the ground where people have been told to shut it. You won't get fans running to the police to grass though.
When the lisbie song was sung at orient I and the other gent involved are cut from a cloth that wouldn't tolerate it
And due to the people I was with and the fact those that sang it knew it would've been a good scrap they chose to call it on with the other guy until they saw that we wouldn't just let that happen
Not all people that heard it in that area were willing to confront it
It should not be down to people to confront it the clubs should know where to look with spotters as you say henners and deal with it
I know quiet a few Millwall fans but none of them are racially abusive type of people and admit they do come accross some idiots in the ground but every club has a "few" idiots in the ground.
A mate of mine who is a Millwall fan tweeted this which I am inclined to agree.
You could go to any ground in any part of England and find the one or two idiots that shout racist abuse. Any. Yet, as an extremely easy Target Sky Sports feel the need to dedicate a programme investigating racism at EVERY LEVEL of English football entirely about Millwall Perhaps if Sky took their cameras & journalists out of South East London, they may realise this. Shoddy & biased reporting at every level
Always been a c£?% of a football club followed predominantly by c£?%s. IF they are a target then it is only the consequence of being a bunch of c£?%s who glorify in the perverse infamy of it all.
I know quiet a few Millwall fans but none of them are racially abusive type of people and admit they do come accross some idiots in the ground but every club has a "few" idiots in the ground.
A mate of mine who is a Millwall fan tweeted this which I am inclined to agree.
You could go to any ground in any part of England and find the one or two idiots that shout racist abuse. Any. Yet, as an extremely easy Target Sky Sports feel the need to dedicate a programme investigating racism at EVERY LEVEL of English football entirely about Millwall Perhaps if Sky took their cameras & journalists out of South East London, they may realise this. Shoddy & biased reporting at every level
I am totally with NLA.
As I said, there are a lot of Millwall fans who look to deny and when they can't deny (as they can't with that footage) they look to excuse or deflect.
It may have been poor reporting but where in that statement is your mate saying "Its disgusting, I don't want it at my Club"?
It's not good enough to say "it happens at other clubs". I don't excuse racism at Charlton by saying "it's worse elsewhere" even though that is, IMHO, true.
I don't want it at my club and will do what little I can to stop it whether that was handing out leaflets and stickers at the first ever Anti-racism day in football (Red, white and black day at the Valley, of course) or shouting down the songs when I hear them and feel brave enough to pipe up.
i can't believe sky didn't have 5000 reporters at each game with hidden cameras and they'd have found racist behaviour at all games and we could have all been tarred with the same brush rather than picking on poor old millwall
They were the only five doing it in the whole ground and its just coincidence they were all sat in the same block that day.
I thought that, they only got their footage from one block. Who knows what's going on in the rest of the stadium?
Five per block is a lot, especially when you consider that the Den has 42 blocks in the home end. Not saying there are five racists in every block but if it turned out that was an average figure, that's over 200 in the stadium.
You have to confront Racism when you hear it, in my 6 year stay in Scotland i had to confront Racism 3 times at Queen of the South home matches again this was towards their own player and sadly i had to do it at a Charlton match away to Burnley a good few years ago now.
To be honest if your to scared to confront one or 2 blokes over it because your worried other fans & ground staff would not back you, then does that sound like a club worth supporting or a lost cause?
Sorry, but there is no way I could sit near someone behaving like that and not do something, if you just sit there and let that go unchallenged than you're enabling it.
I was at a big Rugby League game here about ten years back at ANZ Stadium in Brisbane and some clown in the crowd was calling some of the visiting team's Aboriginal players every name under the sun, I had not been here long and really did not know the 'form' so to speak.
I didn't have to wait long to find out because a few minutes later a very large Pacific Islander/Aboriginal bloke had come up the stairway from a few rows in front of the gobby twat and it was all on for young and old and the crowd had to break the fight up because there were no Old Bill in the vicinity.
I do feel a bit sorry for Millwall here though, I am pretty sure they could have gone to any number of grounds and picked up similar footage of racial abuse (especially Leeds and other northern clubs) - we have even had our own problems with this in recent years.
I'd say it prolly boils down to the fact that millwall have a higher c*** ratio than any other club, hence c***ish behaviour is gonna be easier to find down there than anywhere else Yep I'm sure racism in some form exists at all clubs but they can't have a million reporters covering every supporter in the land Or there again it was just a coincidence that that c*** was filmed at millwall
I think we should all hold our horses for a second, if there were reporters in our end who is to say it wasn't one of ours.
Thought had crossed my mind, but then realised if some one was racially abusing a player so openly in our end some one would have either reported it, or at least mentioned it on a forum/social media site IMO
Exactly. The few times its been one of ours someone has said/done something about it. You only have to look on here for the threads about the Lisbie song and the police arrests to see that the vast majority of our fans are against racism in a way that our nearest neighbours are not.
Perhaps, just perhaps, this forum doesn't reflect our entire fan base or maybe those with racist intent don't post it here ?
Not entire no, I realise that. But I'm not talking just the Internet, matches home and away. I don't know about you but I've heard/seen very little racist behaviour.
Kids in front of me at Palace called one of their players a black c***. Didn't say anything because I'd expected the big black fellas in the row in front to have a quiet word. When they didn't the moment had kind of passed. Really regret my silence.
Similar thing at a home game earlier in the season, swear I heard the guy 3 seats down call someone a black c*** and make monkey chants but the lady next to me said she thought I must have misheard. Sure I didn't, but not going to accuse someone of that if I might have been wrong.
Point is that we shouldn't be complacent about this. Maybe it's is easier to find a racist at Millwall, but that might be more because people are less confident of challenging it and they grow in bravado as a result. That is, maybe we may have fewer people prepared to make a racist comment out loud, but we can't be certain we don't have a usual proportion of racists in the crowd.
I've challenged it in the past, no doubt I will again. We all need to be prepared to do so.
Spoke out a few seasons back some numpty next to me called Norwich a bunch of "welsh c++ts" ------told him that was "East Anglian-ist" and an insult to far.
I think a few Millwall fans will have to open their eyes a little & realise that it does go on more than they wish to think. Most parts of the ground it doesn't, but there are certain parts, and Block 28 is a part of the ground that attracts the loons & wannabes, where abuse like that may be heard more often.
It's very hard to expect people to start self policing it, the bloke looks off his nut and is shouting racial & intimidating language. Not many will have the balls to say something, especially knowing it may well end up in a fight.
As for future punishments, Jason Roberts wants bigger fines etc. I just don't see how that solves the issue? Fining the club won't stop that bloke walking about holding those views. He must have them ingrained from childhood or from previous experiences. Shouldn't the whole point be about education rather than fining?
I'd rather people were educated and changed their views, rather than keep their views but suppressing them underground.
I think a few Millwall fans will have to open their eyes a little & realise that it does go on more than they wish to think. Most parts of the ground it doesn't, but there are certain parts, and Block 28 is a part of the ground that attracts the loons & wannabes, where abuse like that may be heard more often.
It's very hard to expect people to start self policing it, the bloke looks off his nut and is shouting racial & intimidating language. Not many will have the balls to say something, especially knowing it may well end up in a fight.
As for future punishments, Jason Roberts wants bigger fines etc. I just don't see how that solves the issue? Fining the club won't stop that bloke walking about holding those views. He must have them ingrained from childhood or from previous experiences. Shouldn't the whole point be about education rather than fining?
I'd rather people were educated and changed their views, rather than keep their views but suppressing them underground.
The whole point about it is the club doing more themselves. We support Charlton and we know the reputation block 28 has so why are Millwall doing nothing about the numptys that seem to populate it?
I think a few Millwall fans will have to open their eyes a little & realise that it does go on more than they wish to think. Most parts of the ground it doesn't, but there are certain parts, and Block 28 is a part of the ground that attracts the loons & wannabes, where abuse like that may be heard more often.
It's very hard to expect people to start self policing it, the bloke looks off his nut and is shouting racial & intimidating language. Not many will have the balls to say something, especially knowing it may well end up in a fight.
As for future punishments, Jason Roberts wants bigger fines etc. I just don't see how that solves the issue? Fining the club won't stop that bloke walking about holding those views. He must have them ingrained from childhood or from previous experiences. Shouldn't the whole point be about education rather than fining?
I'd rather people were educated and changed their views, rather than keep their views but suppressing them underground.
The whole point about it is the club doing more themselves. We support Charlton and we know the reputation block 28 has so why are Millwall doing nothing about the numptys that seem to populate it?
They have & are. Sales are now restricted only to ST holders, no general sale. Been that way for a few weeks I think. Could they be doing more, possibly.
But you haven't answered my question have you. Preventing people from sitting there doesn't educate ignorant people does it. Or why they have those views in the first place.
calling people "racist or Bigots" at every micro mention of anything to do with imigration hasnt helped-or maybe it has helped the more extreme political movements.
When I think of racist clubs, I think mainly of Chelsea and maybe Everton, Millwall fans are not inherently racist, no more than any other club, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread.
Comments
As for the fans, I'm disappointed nobody pulled him up, it's happened elsewhere in the ground where people have been told to shut it. You won't get fans running to the police to grass though.
When the lisbie song was sung at orient I and the other gent involved are cut from a cloth that wouldn't tolerate it
And due to the people I was with and the fact those that sang it knew it would've been a good scrap they chose to call it on with the other guy until they saw that we wouldn't just let that happen
Not all people that heard it in that area were willing to confront it
It should not be down to people to confront it the clubs should know where to look with spotters as you say henners and deal with it
A mate of mine who is a Millwall fan tweeted this which I am inclined to agree.
You could go to any ground in any part of England and find the one or two idiots that shout racist abuse. Any. Yet, as an extremely easy Target Sky Sports feel the need to dedicate a programme investigating racism at EVERY LEVEL of English football entirely about Millwall Perhaps if Sky took their cameras & journalists out of South East London, they may realise this. Shoddy & biased reporting at every level
I am totally with NLA.
IF they are a target then it is only the consequence of being a bunch of c£?%s who glorify in the perverse infamy of it all.
As I said, there are a lot of Millwall fans who look to deny and when they can't deny (as they can't with that footage) they look to excuse or deflect.
It may have been poor reporting but where in that statement is your mate saying "Its disgusting, I don't want it at my Club"?
It's not good enough to say "it happens at other clubs". I don't excuse racism at Charlton by saying "it's worse elsewhere" even though that is, IMHO, true.
I don't want it at my club and will do what little I can to stop it whether that was handing out leaflets and stickers at the first ever Anti-racism day in football (Red, white and black day at the Valley, of course) or shouting down the songs when I hear them and feel brave enough to pipe up.
They were the only five doing it in the whole ground and its just coincidence they were all sat in the same block that day.
Millwall were chosen over other teams as people already have that perception of them being racist hooligans. Easy for ssn then!
Five per block is a lot, especially when you consider that the Den has 42 blocks in the home end. Not saying there are five racists in every block but if it turned out that was an average figure, that's over 200 in the stadium.
To be honest if your to scared to confront one or 2 blokes over it because your worried other fans & ground staff would not back you, then does that sound like a club worth supporting or a lost cause?
All I have found so far is a snippet by a Leeds fan
Jesus h christ to think people like that actually do walk amongst normal people
Who moderates that board if i was mfc i would get it shut down
Sure, I bet it goes on elsewhere, but to that extent?
Little clip of the entrance to the away end at The Valley in the report also I noticed.
Sorry, but there is no way I could sit near someone behaving like that and not do something, if you just sit there and let that go unchallenged than you're enabling it.
I was at a big Rugby League game here about ten years back at ANZ Stadium in Brisbane and some clown in the crowd was calling some of the visiting team's Aboriginal players every name under the sun, I had not been here long and really did not know the 'form' so to speak.
I didn't have to wait long to find out because a few minutes later a very large Pacific Islander/Aboriginal bloke had come up the stairway from a few rows in front of the gobby twat and it was all on for young and old and the crowd had to break the fight up because there were no Old Bill in the vicinity.
I do feel a bit sorry for Millwall here though, I am pretty sure they could have gone to any number of grounds and picked up similar footage of racial abuse (especially Leeds and other northern clubs) - we have even had our own problems with this in recent years.
I don't believe everything I see or read, but this is pretty damning evidence.
Skip to 3.55..
Yep I'm sure racism in some form exists at all clubs but they can't have a million reporters covering every supporter in the land
Or there again it was just a coincidence that that c*** was filmed at millwall
Similar thing at a home game earlier in the season, swear I heard the guy 3 seats down call someone a black c*** and make monkey chants but the lady next to me said she thought I must have misheard. Sure I didn't, but not going to accuse someone of that if I might have been wrong.
Point is that we shouldn't be complacent about this. Maybe it's is easier to find a racist at Millwall, but that might be more because people are less confident of challenging it and they grow in bravado as a result. That is, maybe we may have fewer people prepared to make a racist comment out loud, but we can't be certain we don't have a usual proportion of racists in the crowd.
I've challenged it in the past, no doubt I will again. We all need to be prepared to do so.
It's very hard to expect people to start self policing it, the bloke looks off his nut and is shouting racial & intimidating language. Not many will have the balls to say something, especially knowing it may well end up in a fight.
As for future punishments, Jason Roberts wants bigger fines etc. I just don't see how that solves the issue? Fining the club won't stop that bloke walking about holding those views. He must have them ingrained from childhood or from previous experiences. Shouldn't the whole point be about education rather than fining?
I'd rather people were educated and changed their views, rather than keep their views but suppressing them underground.
But you haven't answered my question have you. Preventing people from sitting there doesn't educate ignorant people does it. Or why they have those views in the first place.