Anyone know Gerrard Scanlon? He's been named and has been charged with racially aggrevated public order offences at Millwall v Leeds which was featured on the SSN report.
Anyone know Gerrard Scanlon? He's been named and has been charged with racially aggrevated public order offences at Millwall v Leeds which was featured on the SSN report.
Dont be sold off it i aint saying they are angels and it is an easy place to get the reports but its a set up nailed on
It's not the highest quality report of all time, but the guys who made it went to plenty of games up and down the country and were 'absolutely stunned' by what they experienced at the Toolbox. For the record. It might be more exciting to believe in conspiracies, but this was a report put together by honest journalists and producers. They didn't 'pick' on Millwall, it wasn't a set up and there were no patsys. All comments of that ilk are well wide of the mark.
Crap. I hate Millwall, but a blind man can see that they were targeted.
I can vouch for the fact that Millwall only became central to the report once they'd realised the footage they had. If I thought it was a set up based on what I've heard, then I'd say that - nothing in it for me to lie. The difference between you and me is, you're assuming, and I know the guys who made the report.
I'd agree that there was probably no intention to "go for Millwall" at the outset. However, after seeing Gerrard Scanlon in action, they then focused almost entirely on Millwall. As NLA said. What about all the other clubs ? Why all the sensationalist stuff about 56 incidences at Millwall, when it was mainly one bloke.
Like I said before, I'm one of Millwalls biggest critics, but unfair singling out & sensationalism is not the right way to go about it.
Rod Widdle uses the "We've voted a black player POY" as part of his snivelling, pathetic defence of his filthy club in his column in today’s Currant Bun.
Dont be sold off it i aint saying they are angels and it is an easy place to get the reports but its a set up nailed on
It's not the highest quality report of all time, but the guys who made it went to plenty of games up and down the country and were 'absolutely stunned' by what they experienced at the Toolbox. For the record. It might be more exciting to believe in conspiracies, but this was a report put together by honest journalists and producers. They didn't 'pick' on Millwall, it wasn't a set up and there were no patsys. All comments of that ilk are well wide of the mark.
Crap. I hate Millwall, but a blind man can see that they were targeted.
I can vouch for the fact that Millwall only became central to the report once they'd realised the footage they had. If I thought it was a set up based on what I've heard, then I'd say that - nothing in it for me to lie. The difference between you and me is, you're assuming, and I know the guys who made the report.
As NLA said. What about all the other clubs ? Why all the sensationalist stuff about 56 incidences at Millwall, when it was mainly one bloke.
Like I said before, I'm one of Millwalls biggest critics, but unfair singling out & sensationalism is not the right way to go about it.
But they did - they went to games up and down the country armed with hidden cameras (in watches, no less!), and they went to those grounds multiple times. Millwall was the only place where they heard repetitive abuse. They might have focussed on one bloke, but I gather they sat in various areas of the ground and still heard it.
The thing that i feel was a bit unfair was the coin throwing against us. as a millwall mate of mine said we did as much as they did that day maybe even more but the report just showed them lot causing trouble. still, if the cameras are there in march they will see the millwall hordes getting back at us for setting alight the lions tail with a flare.
I work at Sky's HQ and have friends who are producers in the Sports department. I don't know the lead producer personally, but his colleague and friend, who I do know very well, gave me the low-down.
When I put some of the points to him that were raised on here and the Millwall forum, he was simply shaking his head or laughing. Everyone assumes we're up to something dodgy here. The reality is soooo much more boring than that.
The thing that i feel was a bit unfair was the coin throwing against us. as a millwall mate of mine said we did as much as they did that day maybe even more but the report just showed them lot causing trouble. still, if the cameras are there in march they will see the millwall hordes getting back at us for setting alight the lions tail with a flare.
Who did it show them throwing coins at, the away end or players?
The thing that i feel was a bit unfair was the coin throwing against us. as a millwall mate of mine said we did as much as they did that day maybe even more but the report just showed them lot causing trouble. still, if the cameras are there in march they will see the millwall hordes getting back at us for setting alight the lions tail with a flare.
Who did it show them throwing coins at, the away end or players?
never saw the actual programme. he was going on about it though. so i guess it was at us (the away end).
All i know is they were throwing stuff like coins, bottles etc at us at full time. which then got thrown back or vice versa. the footage might of been from then, but that was over in the other stand to where most the filming was for skys report (block 28 where the racist fans were)
Do they think they done a good job on what they reported then,
I only ask, because i have gone to games between
Spurs vs Chelsea
Man yoo Vs Spurs
Chelsea vs Arsenal
and the things you hear are just as bad and i wondered why they chose not to mention any games between the bigger clubs that lead the brand that is known as sky which we all know is the Prem League
I think that personally the people you speak of did have an agenda not so much an anti millwall one as you can understand why they targeted there and tbh they were an easy win as some there wont let you down
but it is all too convient for me that since the U21 match people are asking questions including fifa for the first time and it seems to me that they were trying to deflect from their brand and tarnish another
it is lazy journalism and i am sure if they wanted to they couldve exposed the real issues and aid removing the problem rather than the look what we have found over to you now style
its poor from the company called sky and poor from the lawyers and the anti racism groups not to question more of the motives behind it
as its as if sky are saying nothing to see here but look over there
Big Rob - Funny that, makes you wonder how many people we intersect with on this site.
NLA - It's an interesting point, definitely. Next time I see my mate I'll ask his take on that side of it. Be good to know how many Prem games were involved.
Although I do think there are more than a few examples of Sky pointing out racism at PL games recently. They weren't worried about the PL/ Sports brand when they repeated the Terry footage over and over, or the guy making monkey gestures in the crowd at West Brom (I think). Making their own product a part of a (sometimes scandalous) news story is something they do very well (I don't necessarily mean that as a compliment). If there was an agenda, I'd love to know how it's communicated. I've never been asked to do something I didn't think made sense... I think...
Sky do own the rights to FL games too though. It is a brand, albeit far, far less valuable, that they have a vested interest in, no? Be a bit different if ITV sport still owned it!
I think its perception mate tbh i am a sinner i pay a large amount to sky every month and i am not ashamed to say it as i do love my footie and movies
But i just wish one media outlet would take it serious just for once and actually make a difference in what and how they communicate the real issues,
The Terry example sky def manipulated to their own adavantage because they could run dedicated stories from it
the Chelsea fan vs WBA just fed it
now if there was a group of fans you could really tarnish with the Racist brush Chelsea would be up there for me just from games i have seen and people i know from there
I recall a game in the late 70s .. Phil Walker was having a stinker and a few Charlton 'fans' near me started abusing him on the lines of : 'f*** off back to Millwall you useless black c***' .. I made sure to stand well away from this particular group of chaps on subsequent valley visits. I wonder if these worthies still follow the Addicks.
I recall a game in the late 70s .. Phil Walker was having a stinker and a few Charlton 'fans' near me started abusing him on the lines of : 'f*** off back to Millwall you useless black c***' .. I made sure to stand well away from this particular group of chaps on subsequent valley visits. I wonder if these worthies still follow the Addicks.
I think many of us can recall racist moments from the 70's. I'm sure those old enough told and laughed at many jokes in the 70's that would be unacceptable today. I'm sure in the 70's, those of us who were there used words like c**n, n******r, w**, P**i etc etc quite freely. It was a different time. Doesn’t make it right but it’s a fact. Some of the top TV shows at the time freely used such language. I really see no point in your post.
I recall a game in the late 70s .. Phil Walker was having a stinker and a few Charlton 'fans' near me started abusing him on the lines of : 'f*** off back to Millwall you useless black c***' .. I made sure to stand well away from this particular group of chaps on subsequent valley visits. I wonder if these worthies still follow the Addicks.
I think many of us can recall racist moments from the 70's. I'm sure those old enough told and laughed at many jokes in the 70's that would be unacceptable today. I'm sure in the 70's, those of us who were there used words like c**n, n******r, w**, P**i etc etc quite freely. It was a different time. Doesn’t make it right but it’s a fact. Some of the top TV shows at the time freely used such language. I really see no point in your post.
It wasn't a set up, the fella is a Millwall STH and clearly has issues. I think the way it protrayed the club was a bit sensationalist and they caught Ambler on the hop.
It would've been much better if the reporters had reported him there & then rather than waiting 3 months down the line, it may have stopped his abuse polluting the ears of impressionable people around him.
The whole show was shallow though, why didn't they explore Keith Curles comments on The Footballers Show which in many ways were much more offensive to white & black people, they didn't even mention the Y word, or go into certain Arsenal or Chelsea pubs where the Hitler & gas songs are sang regularly.
Still don't think fines on clubs are the answer though. People hold racist views due to external influences - parents, friends, incidents in their lives, media etc etc - surely you have to understand why people hold these prejudices & views and then challenge them rather than supressing them. Almost every person on here will have a set reaction/prejudice to certain people, whether it's based on their origin of birth, race, height, weight, appearance, religion, sexuality etc etc, nobody can help it since we've all been exposed to influences that affect our instant judgements on people, whether right or wrong.
Still don't think fines on clubs are the answer though. People hold racist views due to external influences - parents, friends, incidents in their lives, media etc etc -
True but one of those influences will be people they see at football matches. Older men such as Gerald Scalon who SOME fans will see and hear and so believe that racist behaviour is acceptable or even admirable at football.
It won't be the only influence but we know how the mob mentality works and how behaviour is excused by some as being "banter" or "it's football so anything is allowed".
Almost every person on here will have a set reaction/prejudice to certain people, whether it's based on their origin of birth, race, height, weight, appearance, religion, sexuality etc etc, nobody can help it since we've all been exposed to influences that affect our instant judgements on people, whether right or wrong.
Again true but the difference is that some people challenge their own pre-conceptions and move beyond them to judge people as individuals rather than stereotypes.
Others can't or won't do that and so see all (insert group here) as sharing the same characteristics, normally negative.
That's not just Millwall but in this case it was.
The "it happens elsewhere, why pick on us?" line is a regular and long time Millwall excuse and it doesn't wash. No, Millwall are not the only club with racist incidents or violent fans but rather than looking around for others to share the blame MFC and it's fans should be looking to put their own house in order.
And yes they have done a lot already. But then they had a hell of a lot to do. When they have sorted out their own club and fans then they can start pointing the finger at others.
I recall a game in the late 70s .. Phil Walker was having a stinker and a few Charlton 'fans' near me started abusing him on the lines of : 'f*** off back to Millwall you useless black c***' .. I made sure to stand well away from this particular group of chaps on subsequent valley visits. I wonder if these worthies still follow the Addicks.
In the 80s there was a very large section of fans doing monkey chants, the zulu song etc. every game (people on here seem to selectively forgotten this). Things were different then, I'm pretty sure a lot of those fans are still around and some on here as well.
Weren't that long ah the chant I would rather be a p****e than a scouse Was heard across many terraces
A minority but heard plenty at Charlton although footballs come a long way. "Town full of p***'s" at Luton/Leicester/Oldham etc, The "Stand up if you all hate turks" after the Leeds lads were murdered etc etc.
West Ham commonly sing," i'd rather be a paki than a Jew" at their games, and especially against spurs. Go there quite a bit with my mates, and i'd be lying if i said anyone around me looked too concerned with what they were chanting.
Comments
However, after seeing Gerrard Scanlon in action, they then focused almost entirely on Millwall.
As NLA said. What about all the other clubs ?
Why all the sensationalist stuff about 56 incidences at Millwall, when it was mainly one bloke.
Like I said before, I'm one of Millwalls biggest critics, but unfair singling out & sensationalism is not the right way to go about it.
Ta
still, if the cameras are there in march they will see the millwall hordes getting back at us for setting alight the lions tail with a flare.
When I put some of the points to him that were raised on here and the Millwall forum, he was simply shaking his head or laughing. Everyone assumes we're up to something dodgy here. The reality is soooo much more boring than that.
I'll ask about the Charlton side of it.
All i know is they were throwing stuff like coins, bottles etc at us at full time. which then got thrown back or vice versa. the footage might of been from then, but that was over in the other stand to where most the filming was for skys report (block 28 where the racist fans were)
Do they think they done a good job on what they reported then,
I only ask, because i have gone to games between
Spurs vs Chelsea
Man yoo Vs Spurs
Chelsea vs Arsenal
and the things you hear are just as bad and i wondered why they chose not to mention any games between the bigger clubs that lead the brand that is known as sky which we all know is the Prem League
I think that personally the people you speak of did have an agenda not so much an anti millwall one as you can understand why they targeted there and tbh they were an easy win as some there wont let you down
but it is all too convient for me that since the U21 match people are asking questions including fifa for the first time and it seems to me that they were trying to deflect from their brand and tarnish another
it is lazy journalism and i am sure if they wanted to they couldve exposed the real issues and aid removing the problem rather than the look what we have found over to you now style
its poor from the company called sky and poor from the lawyers and the anti racism groups not to question more of the motives behind it
as its as if sky are saying nothing to see here but look over there
NLA - It's an interesting point, definitely. Next time I see my mate I'll ask his take on that side of it. Be good to know how many Prem games were involved.
Although I do think there are more than a few examples of Sky pointing out racism at PL games recently. They weren't worried about the PL/ Sports brand when they repeated the Terry footage over and over, or the guy making monkey gestures in the crowd at West Brom (I think). Making their own product a part of a (sometimes scandalous) news story is something they do very well (I don't necessarily mean that as a compliment). If there was an agenda, I'd love to know how it's communicated. I've never been asked to do something I didn't think made sense... I think...
Sky do own the rights to FL games too though. It is a brand, albeit far, far less valuable, that they have a vested interest in, no? Be a bit different if ITV sport still owned it!
But i just wish one media outlet would take it serious just for once and actually make a difference in what and how they communicate the real issues,
The Terry example sky def manipulated to their own adavantage because they could run dedicated stories from it
the Chelsea fan vs WBA just fed it
now if there was a group of fans you could really tarnish with the Racist brush Chelsea would be up there for me just from games i have seen and people i know from there
I really see no point in your post.
It would've been much better if the reporters had reported him there & then rather than waiting 3 months down the line, it may have stopped his abuse polluting the ears of impressionable people around him.
The whole show was shallow though, why didn't they explore Keith Curles comments on The Footballers Show which in many ways were much more offensive to white & black people, they didn't even mention the Y word, or go into certain Arsenal or Chelsea pubs where the Hitler & gas songs are sang regularly.
Still don't think fines on clubs are the answer though. People hold racist views due to external influences - parents, friends, incidents in their lives, media etc etc - surely you have to understand why people hold these prejudices & views and then challenge them rather than supressing them. Almost every person on here will have a set reaction/prejudice to certain people, whether it's based on their origin of birth, race, height, weight, appearance, religion, sexuality etc etc, nobody can help it since we've all been exposed to influences that affect our instant judgements on people, whether right or wrong.
True but one of those influences will be people they see at football matches. Older men such as Gerald Scalon who SOME fans will see and hear and so believe that racist behaviour is acceptable or even admirable at football.
It won't be the only influence but we know how the mob mentality works and how behaviour is excused by some as being "banter" or "it's football so anything is allowed".
Again true but the difference is that some people challenge their own pre-conceptions and move beyond them to judge people as individuals rather than stereotypes.
Others can't or won't do that and so see all (insert group here) as sharing the same characteristics, normally negative.
That's not just Millwall but in this case it was.
The "it happens elsewhere, why pick on us?" line is a regular and long time Millwall excuse and it doesn't wash. No, Millwall are not the only club with racist incidents or violent fans but rather than looking around for others to share the blame MFC and it's fans should be looking to put their own house in order.
And yes they have done a lot already. But then they had a hell of a lot to do. When they have sorted out their own club and fans then they can start pointing the finger at others.
Go there quite a bit with my mates, and i'd be lying if i said anyone around me looked too concerned with what they were chanting.