I was referring to northstandsteve's post, hence the 'shit coaching' quote.
Of course there is coaching for corners. But to say a genuine cock up..,that obviously happens to players in the best teams is just that. A cock up. Are the mistakes you make at work down to your error or poor coaching/management/leadership?
What about missed penalties? Mistake or bad coaching? Poor control? Mistake or bad coaching? Foul throw? Mistake or bad coaching?
As I stated earlier I just feel this example of a short corner being poorly executed is down to bad coaching a little bit silly.
Agree with your point about short corners, we have lot more serious problems with our coaching staff like going for 45 minutes without a shot at goal
I was referring to northstandsteve's post, hence the 'shit coaching' quote.
Of course there is coaching for corners. But to say a genuine cock up..,that obviously happens to players in the best teams is just that. A cock up. Are the mistakes you make at work down to your error or poor coaching/management/leadership?
What about missed penalties? Mistake or bad coaching? Poor control? Mistake or bad coaching? Foul throw? Mistake or bad coaching?
As I stated earlier I just feel this example of a short corner being poorly executed is down to bad coaching a little bit silly.
Agree with your point about short corners, we have lot more serious problems with our coaching staff like going for 45 minutes without a shot at goal
Which is a much better point and more sensible area for discussion
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg. We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I was referring to northstandsteve's post, hence the 'shit coaching' quote.
Of course there is coaching for corners. But to say a genuine cock up..,that obviously happens to players in the best teams is just that. A cock up. Are the mistakes you make at work down to your error or poor coaching/management/leadership?
What about missed penalties? Mistake or bad coaching? Poor control? Mistake or bad coaching? Foul throw? Mistake or bad coaching?
As I stated earlier I just feel this example of a short corner being poorly executed is down to bad coaching a little bit silly.
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg. We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
... Malcolm Musgrove was a part time games master at my school in the early/mid 60s .. I recall him from a game which Orient won @ the valley in the very early sixties, he was a left winger and carried the ball some seventy yards along the touchline before delivering a pinpoint cross onto the head of Dave Dunmore to head home and win the game in the last few minutes .. I was gutted at that .. not for the first nor last time watching the Valiants .. ((:>)
We always lack movement from throw-ins, we tend to just throw it long for Yann to knock on, it's too predictable and direct like the rest of our play...
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
Dugdale was not at the club when Musgrove was coach though.
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg. We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
... Malcolm Musgrove was a part time games master at my school in the early/mid 60s .. I recall him from a game which Orient won @ the valley in the very early sixties, he was a left winger and carried the ball some seventy yards along the touchline before delivering a pinpoint cross onto the head of Dave Dunmore to head home and win the game in the last few minutes .. I was gutted at that .. not for the first nor last time watching the Valiants .. ((:>)
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
Dugdale was not at the club when Musgrove was coach though.
Beautiful, Lincs!
Later than Musgrove: circa 1980. Hey, Shirty, just because you ask those tough quiz questions, doesn't mean you can't answer them!
Long face, sombre, quietly spoken and courteous. Lennie Lawrence era. Not, not Colin Clarke. The man I am talking about was the physio.
Speaking of Colin Clarke, I watched him give Scottie Minto one-to-one coaching during our pre-season friendly at Edgware Town, White Lion ground, now demolished. Clarke walked up and down the touchline: "Stay wide - don't go in" - and, at a corner and pertinent to the trap discussed earlier: "Don't give it back to him - he'll be offside!" Walking up and down, prowling, personal coaching: Scottie was drifting inside: "Here, hold the touchline."
Lennie was hunkered down in the dug-out bunker. We won, 3-1. Love it, love it, love it.
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
So it was Billy Bremner, on the train from London Bridge to Greenwich and back again via Great Ormand Street, with a spanner called Dinsdale and a Hamer in the winter of 1905, talking about Peter Shirtliff's damaged lower ear lobe when he was playing at our mighty Catford Stadium, where we hadn't won since the Boer war who succinctly noted that we dont win because we dont have the skill to put it in the old onion bag?
So it was Billy Bremner, on the train from London Bridge to Greenwich and back again via Great Ormand Street, with a spanner called Dinsdale and a Hamer in the winter of 1905, talking about Peter Shirtliff's damaged lower ear lobe when he was playing at our mighty Catford Stadium, where we hadn't won since the Boer war who succinctly noted that we dont win because we dont have the skill to put it in the old onion bag?
How many shots did we have yesterday? When teams come to the valley they always put us under pressure no matter how bad they are..... Oxford anyone, we just concentrate on keeping a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal and hpld on. Powell aint got a clue and in time i will come back to this thread and remind you all. This aint the worst Charlton team ever but CP and dyerbolical certainly have us playing like it, they are lovely men though so its ok we will be ok.
How many shots did we have yesterday? When teams come to the valley they always put us under pressure no matter how bad they are..... Oxford anyone, we just concentrate on keeping a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal and hpld on. Powell aint got a clue and in time i will come back to this thread and remind you all. This aint the worst Charlton team ever but CP and dyerbolical certainly have us playing like it, they are lovely men though so its ok we will be ok.
Do they? I can't remember Doncaster putting us under much pressure for the whole game. In other matches, other teams are always going to cause problems as that is football but in quite a few games recently we have managed to restrict the opposition to limited periods of real pressure (Ipswich away/Brighton at home for example, both p/o chasing sides).
We are not playing like the worst Charlton team ever. We are playing like a side who need a goalscorer but have a mid table defence, a decent midfield but need some freshening up.
5 years ago we lost 2-0 to Forest at home in a limp display against a side only a few places above us, we were already cast adrift at the bottom where we would stay. That squad included some absolute toilet, mainly thanks to Pardew. That was a bad side, who had just got rid of an awful manager and had a guy in charge who was probably out of his depth.
We struggle to score due to movement. We are so rigid and structured going forward it's insane.
We just stay rigid, 442. When we play 451, it's so isolated up top it's so easy to defend against. It seems to take an age for our midfield to link up with the front man/men.
We lack fluidity, no players switching positions. Doesn't take world class players to move into space freely. It makes defenders think;
"Shall I track my man?" "If I do, some one has to cover, I'm out of position."
A prime example was Derby at home (1st half). The way they moved freely was impressive, we couldn't cope.
Yes, once they lost possession some players were out if position. But getting into a defensive shape straight away nullified us immediately.
When we have the ball, we have one or two options. The third would be to go long. Sounds simple, but I'm not a manager, but being coached from a young age you hear, "Pass and move", "don't admire your pass, move to get and play the next one", "Triangles"...
It just confuses me, why we don't think out of the box? Confidence? Quality? Coaching? Instructions?
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg. We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
... Malcolm Musgrove was a part time games master at my school in the early/mid 60s .. I recall him from a game which Orient won @ the valley in the very early sixties, he was a left winger and carried the ball some seventy yards along the touchline before delivering a pinpoint cross onto the head of Dave Dunmore to head home and win the game in the last few minutes .. I was gutted at that .. not for the first nor last time watching the Valiants .. ((:>)
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
Dugdale was not at the club when Musgrove was coach though.
Beautiful, Lincs!
Later than Musgrove: circa 1980. Hey, Shirty, just because you ask those tough quiz questions, doesn't mean you can't answer them!
Long face, sombre, quietly spoken and courteous. Lennie Lawrence era. Not, not Colin Clarke. The man I am talking about was the physio.
Speaking of Colin Clarke, I watched him give Scottie Minto one-to-one coaching during our pre-season friendly at Edgware Town, White Lion ground, now demolished. Clarke walked up and down the touchline: "Stay wide - don't go in" - and, at a corner and pertinent to the trap discussed earlier: "Don't give it back to him - he'll be offside!" Walking up and down, prowling, personal coaching: Scottie was drifting inside: "Here, hold the touchline."
Lennie was hunkered down in the dug-out bunker. We won, 3-1. Love it, love it, love it.
So after all that, you mean Jimmy Hendry i presume with the x rays from one of the two broken legs that Colin Walsh sufferred during the club's time at Selhurst Park.
Lack of movement, slow tempo, lack of adventure. Players like Harriot address those problems, but we need the whole team to speed it up and move into space better. Movement creates space, makes passing easier and eventually openings develop. Our moves are so telegraphed that the opposition defense barely has to break sweat.
On goal difference only. And with the current (so-called) strikers we have, that could disappear over a week or two if the defence slip up. CP is a bit too happy to rest on a single goal for my liking, though perhaps it is merely a different sensibility instead of a question of right or wrong.
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg. We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
... Malcolm Musgrove was a part time games master at my school in the early/mid 60s .. I recall him from a game which Orient won @ the valley in the very early sixties, he was a left winger and carried the ball some seventy yards along the touchline before delivering a pinpoint cross onto the head of Dave Dunmore to head home and win the game in the last few minutes .. I was gutted at that .. not for the first nor last time watching the Valiants .. ((:>)
Many years ago, I bumped in to Malcolm Musgrove on a train back from London Bridge: he was holding the file of X-rays from one of our player's broken leg - We were in the top division, at Sell-Out Park, and hadn't won for months - and I asked him what could be done. "It's very tough in this division," he said with a warm smile: "We haven't got the guile, in and around the box".
Malcolm Musgrove was a coach at Charlton between 65 and 67, not during the Selhurst Park era.
I'm glad you correct my failing memory, Shirty. I think the X-rays were for Alan Dugdale - barrel-chested cove who came from Coventry, broken leg and in Greenwich hospital sharpish. As you say, not Charlie Vaughan - what was his name?
Dugdale was not at the club when Musgrove was coach though.
Beautiful, Lincs!
Later than Musgrove: circa 1980. Hey, Shirty, just because you ask those tough quiz questions, doesn't mean you can't answer them!
Long face, sombre, quietly spoken and courteous. Lennie Lawrence era. Not, not Colin Clarke. The man I am talking about was the physio.
Speaking of Colin Clarke, I watched him give Scottie Minto one-to-one coaching during our pre-season friendly at Edgware Town, White Lion ground, now demolished. Clarke walked up and down the touchline: "Stay wide - don't go in" - and, at a corner and pertinent to the trap discussed earlier: "Don't give it back to him - he'll be offside!" Walking up and down, prowling, personal coaching: Scottie was drifting inside: "Here, hold the touchline."
Lennie was hunkered down in the dug-out bunker. We won, 3-1. Love it, love it, love it.
So after all that, you mean Jimmy Hendry i presume with the x rays from one of the two broken legs that Colin Walsh sufferred during the club's time at Selhurst Park.
No, Shirty: before Jimmy Hendry. It was also nicely peculiar because a bit later I visited my Ma in Greenwich hospital - varicose veins -and her medical notes were in a folder that was previously for Dugdale and his broken leg.
You remember him, don't you? Barrel-chested defender from Coventry.
Now you've really got me going with the physio. Hang on - I'm going to dig out the old programmes...
No can't find him. It's one of those sonorous, grand names - possibly Scottish...
Comments
Later than Musgrove: circa 1980. Hey, Shirty, just because you ask those tough quiz questions, doesn't mean you can't answer them!
Long face, sombre, quietly spoken and courteous. Lennie Lawrence era. Not, not Colin Clarke. The man I am talking about was the physio.
Speaking of Colin Clarke, I watched him give Scottie Minto one-to-one coaching during our pre-season friendly at Edgware Town, White Lion ground, now demolished. Clarke walked up and down the touchline: "Stay wide - don't go in" - and, at a corner and pertinent to the trap discussed earlier: "Don't give it back to him - he'll be offside!" Walking up and down, prowling, personal coaching: Scottie was drifting inside: "Here, hold the touchline."
Lennie was hunkered down in the dug-out bunker. We won, 3-1. Love it, love it, love it.
Or have I got this wrong?
bloody Chris Powell.
Oxford anyone, we just concentrate on keeping a clean sheet and hope to nick a goal and hpld on. Powell aint got a clue and in time i will come back to this thread and remind you all. This aint the worst Charlton team ever but CP and dyerbolical certainly have us playing like it, they are lovely men though so its ok we will be ok.
We are not playing like the worst Charlton team ever. We are playing like a side who need a goalscorer but have a mid table defence, a decent midfield but need some freshening up.
5 years ago we lost 2-0 to Forest at home in a limp display against a side only a few places above us, we were already cast adrift at the bottom where we would stay. That squad included some absolute toilet, mainly thanks to Pardew. That was a bad side, who had just got rid of an awful manager and had a guy in charge who was probably out of his depth.
Things are precarious, we are not doomed!
They've been given the facts, but knew them, in any case.
We just stay rigid, 442. When we play 451, it's so isolated up top it's so easy to defend against. It seems to take an age for our midfield to link up with the front man/men.
We lack fluidity, no players switching positions. Doesn't take world class players to move into space freely.
It makes defenders think;
"Shall I track my man?"
"If I do, some one has to cover, I'm out of position."
A prime example was Derby at home (1st half). The way they moved freely was impressive, we couldn't cope.
Yes, once they lost possession some players were out if position. But getting into a defensive shape straight away nullified us immediately.
When we have the ball, we have one or two options. The third would be to go long. Sounds simple, but I'm not a manager, but being coached from a young age you hear, "Pass and move", "don't admire your pass, move to get and play the next one", "Triangles"...
It just confuses me, why we don't think out of the box? Confidence? Quality? Coaching? Instructions?
But when your one goal down you're never out the game.
That's why we've picked up the odd point here and there where we haven't deserved it.
As far as I can tell, nobody has said it isn't.
Another reason for CP to go now
You remember him, don't you? Barrel-chested defender from Coventry.
Now you've really got me going with the physio. Hang on - I'm going to dig out the old programmes...
No can't find him. It's one of those sonorous, grand names - possibly Scottish...