Regardless of any pressure Chris Powell is under, he will always have the backing of the majority of the fans and given he spent most of his playing career with us he has become a symbol of Charlton. Using two recent examples of outrageous sackings last season - Nigel Adkins and Brian McDermott, whilst they were unjustified and pissed off the fans they never were symbols of their clubs with established playing careers so I think that it has been a factor to eventually enable the fans to 'get over it'.
Were this to happen at Charlton I don't think it would be the case, knowing what our fans are like it would be almost non-stop chanting of "Jimenez your a c*nt" every game, and I don't care how strong willed a person you are, I don't think most people could take being called a c*nt week in, week out, this would also pretty much prevent him from bringing potential investors and/or his family to matches and I don't think it would just be the North stand, as I was told that when we lost to Swindon 4-2 people in the West were going up the directors box calling for Parky's blood, no doubt they would do the same to abuse Jimenez. I believe people would also go the extra mile to abuse him arriving and leaving matches, such is the love for Powell. At Southampton and Reading the fans never turned on the owners.
I think many of our fans would stop going in protest and I mean at least say a thousand, not just a few hundred, basically the main point is that I feel as though sacking Powell would make the owners lives (concerning football) a living hell and that there would be far too much fallout for them sacking Powell then almost any manager at any other club.
In answer to your big question then all employees can potentially be sacked if they don't meet their objectives and key performance indicators. In the broader workplace this would come after a very long procedure taking many months if not years.
But this is the mad world of professional soccer an industry where big money can be made and lost at a blink of an eye.
So to my mind he can and statistically speaking was bound to be sacked unless he jumped first.
Now u thought we all understood the tiles as far as the owners were concerned - they don't give a toss about the fans unless none if us don't turn up on a Saturday. It didn't happen at Old Trafford or The Emirates and in reality it won't happen at VFR.
So be prepared as for as far as we know a P45 may already have been written.
We all know that Chris Powell is and will always be a Charlton legend. But it is evident that he doesn't have the managerial nous and the coaching staff around him to get us out of our current predicament. We have had similar poor runs before and then gone on a winning run but I just can not see us putting a run together in the next 3 games. I think this will decide Chris Powell's fate. I think he has been close before to getting the bullet and the board have backed him to appease the fans. But now that there are grumbles from the stands the next 3 games are crucial. I hope that Chris survives because that will mean that we have managed to have strung together some results. I know that we have financial restraints surrounding the club but if action needs to be taken it needs to be soon rather than later. Remember Les Reed. Who would I like to see come in ? Well Paul Hart is already at the club. I think he's settled as academy director but on a temporary basis I think he could steady the ship. Personally I would like to see someone come in who knows the club. So who is out there? Pauli do canio. No thanks He wouldn't stay around too long. Too erratic. I'd go for Steve Brown. With gritty or curbs holding his hand just like keith peacock did to them. Failing that Nathan jones. I'm just hoping that it doesn't come to this. COYR
We all know that Chris Powell is and will always be a Charlton legend. But it is evident that he doesn't have the managerial nous and the coaching staff around him to get us out of our current predicament. We have had similar poor runs before and then gone on a winning run but I just can not see us putting a run together in the next 3 games. I think this will decide Chris Powell's fate. I think he has been close before to getting the bullet and the board have backed him to appease the fans. But now that there are grumbles from the stands the next 3 games are crucial. I hope that Chris survives because that will mean that we have managed to have strung together some results. I know that we have financial restraints surrounding the club but if action needs to be taken it needs to be soon rather than later. Remember Les Reed. Who would I like to see come in ? Well Paul Hart is already at the club. I think he's settled as academy director but on a temporary basis I think he could steady the ship. Personally I would like to see someone come in who knows the club. So who is out there? Pauli do canio. No thanks He wouldn't stay around too long. Too erratic. I'd go for Steve Brown. With gritty or curbs holding his hand just like keith peacock did to them. Failing that Nathan jones. I'm just hoping that it doesn't come to this. COYR
Is it evident? The same was said last year before we took Champions elect Cardiff apart.
I feel like a broken record but we have a League One squad and Powell got top ten Championship performances out of them last year. If you think there's a manager out there than could do even better it's not Paul Hart, whose managerial record is dreadful, and neither Steve Brown nor Nathan Jones have any league management experience at all.
I can see arguments for a Curbs return, and even Tony Pulis - but this assumes that there's more that can come from this group. Bear in mind one week earlier we'd beaten Leicester and had a particularly strong draw at Watford, both sides who will be expecting to be in the promotion push. One week later, Powell's suddenly out of his depth, Dyer brings nothing and the coaching staff aren't up to it.
Come on. When he first took over Powell had a group of players not up to winning promotion from League One. Given some freedom in the transfer market he built a side that smashed record after record - achieving more than ANYONE has at third tier level in our entire history. He has the same players he had then. They've done tremendously well, but anyone can see that we lack quality and in particular quality in the centre of the park that can take hold of a game and make a difference.
Is it Powell's fault he's not been able to build on that success by bringing in Championship quality players? If it isn't, then address the root cause before digging out a manager who's brought us success when he's had the support to do so.
If you are happy with us being a yo to club then stick with what we have. A return for curbs in my view would be what is required. Even if he held Powell's hand. Dyer is not experienced enough. Lets not kid ourselves. We got lucky at the end of last season. Winning our last 3 home games gave our position a respectable look. Every central midfielder we have are Powell's signing. Agreed they haven't performed so does the buck stop with ? Powell. Lets get pulis in and see if his long ball game is better than Powell's.
If you are happy with us being a yo to club then stick with what we have. A return for curbs in my view would be what is required. Even if he held Powell's hand. Dyer is not experienced enough. Lets not kid ourselves. We got lucky at the end of last season. Winning our last 3 home games gave our position a respectable look. Every central midfielder we have are Powell's signing. Agreed they haven't performed so does the buck stop with ? Powell. Lets get pulis in and see if his long ball game is better than Powell's.
COYR
I'd be surprised if Curbs was interested in returning to us in any capacity; I get the impression he knows he achieved the very best for us, and picking up the pieces of a very poor second-tier side would be a massive come-down. He has proved he can work in the Prem; how about the Sunderland job?
That awful realization is setting in once again. The realization that no matter how well Charlton do, the supporters will never ever be happy.
A league championship A record points tally A top ten finish in the Championship
^^ All in the past year and a half. And because we've started slowly this campaign (we're not even in the fucking relegation zone!) it is 'evident' he's not up to the job apparently.
I'll tell you what is evident - many of our supporters do not deserve someone of Chris Powell's class and quality.
CL this week has just gone into meltdown with some ridiculous threads. All this because of a 1-0 home defeat to a team we always lose to.
Let's just ignore that we controlled and outplayed Leicester - a much better team than Millwall and took a point off Watford who should have got promoted last season and could well do this year.
Of course he 'could' be sacked. We've got 5 points from 7 games, are playing abysmal football and in the 8th game we were played off the park by a side without an away win until it was fortunately called off.
No manager is safe from the sack. I personally can't see the board making any decisions of this nature unless we are bottom of the league at Christmas and the fans turn en masse. I don't think we are at that stage yet. I am concerned about Powell's defensive and counter attack style and get frustrated, but if anyone else come in would they be able to get more out of the players?
Should Powell be safe from the sack because he is a Charlton legend???? No thats not a good enough reason for anyone to safe. Should Powell get the boot i certainly wouldn't think of him with the same anger that i do whenever i think of Dowie and Pardew and he will forever be remembered in my eyes as the Charlton Playing Legend that he is and the Manager who got us out of League One.
Personally i don't want him sacked, i simply want him to learn from mistakes and learn quickly. I'd love Powell to be the managerial legend we all hope he would be. But if he is not up to the job then he shouldn't be protected because of who he is. I think he can do it and hope and pray every week that we turn this form around. A lot of the players need to accept responsibility as well.
He already is a managerial legend. He won a league we'd be stuck in with no hope of getting out of anytime soon and then easily kept us up last year and with a few points would have seen us in the playoffs.
We've had a tough start this season, not helped by losing some key players and not being able to replace them.
He's the best manager we've had since Curbs and look how that ended up when fans started moaning. I do not want a repeat of the last few years.
If Powell had spent millions in the transfer market and no progress had been made then clearly he would have a problem. The fact of the matter is he hasn't. Until he is in a situation where he's backed financially I wouldn't make a judgement call on his tenure. Yes he's made mistakes with regards to team selection, formation, substitutions etc,etc but so has every other manager that's ever managed.
We could easily sack him, but replace him with who? Out of any realistic replacements, I can't actually think of anybody who is A) going to be any better and going to be able to get more from the current squad. As with the 2nd half of last season, he will find his best 11 and formation and we'll be ok. Personally I think we're lucky that he hasn't downed tools and had enough. The current playing personnel is mid to lower half of the table material and anybody who thinks otherwise is clutching at straws. Have a look back a couple of years and see how bad things really were.......We could still have the likes of McCormack and Abbot on our books.
I think maybe too many fans on here think that because we are a London club we belong in the Premiership, this is not necessarily the case, and although I am sure there are better managers out there (although I believe Chris Powell could become one of the greatest with more experience) none of them would be willing to come to Charlton.
I also believe that Chris Powell would be willing to stay with Charlton, and probably (hopefully) wouldn't be poached by another club, and I believe we owe him loyalty in the bad times as much as he will show us loyalty in the good times.
I don't see Powell getting the backing he deserves, the club don't seem to have in place any plans for steady improvement on the pitch, sanctioned signings appear to be for short term solutions not long term squad building.
I'd question whether Powell could sack Charlton, not the other way round.
No manager is safe from the sack. I personally can't see the board making any decisions of this nature unless we are bottom of the league at Christmas and the fans turn en masse. I don't think we are at that stage yet. I am concerned about Powell's defensive and counter attack style and get frustrated, but if anyone else come in would they be able to get more out of the players?
Should Powell be safe from the sack because he is a Charlton legend???? No thats not a good enough reason for anyone to safe. Should Powell get the boot i certainly wouldn't think of him with the same anger that i do whenever i think of Dowie and Pardew and he will forever be remembered in my eyes as the Charlton Playing Legend that he is and the Manager who got us out of League One.
Personally i don't want him sacked, i simply want him to learn from mistakes and learn quickly. I'd love Powell to be the managerial legend we all hope he would be. But if he is not up to the job then he shouldn't be protected because of who he is. I think he can do it and hope and pray every week that we turn this form around. A lot of the players need to accept responsibility as well.
I don't see Powell getting the backing he deserves, the club don't seem to have in place any plans for steady improvement on the pitch, sanctioned signings appear to be for short term solutions not long term squad building.
I'd question whether Powell could sack Charlton, not the other way round.
I still honestly think we have one of the best managers in the league by a mile. In speaking to a Watford fan at work, he often says that Zola makes all of the mistakes that we hear about SCP doing. If Powell had the tools and funds at his disposal that were the same as Zola, we would be up there challenging without a shadow of a doubt and would get promotion.
Anyone who honestly believes he is not up to it is crazy!
If Powell had spent millions in the town ransfer market and no progress had been made then clearly he would have a problem. The fact of the matter is he hasn't. Until he is in a situation where he's backed financially I wouldn't make a judgement call on his tenure. Yes he's made mistakes with regards to team selection, formation, substitutions etc,etc but so has every other manager that's ever managed.
We could easily sack him, but replace him with who? Out of any realistic replacements, I can't actually think of anybody who is A) going to be any better and going to be able to get more from the current squad. As with the 2nd half of last season, he will find his best 11 and formation and we'll be ok. Personally I think we're lucky that he hasn't downed tools and had enough. The current playing personnel is mid to lower half of the table material and anybody who thinks otherwise is clutching at straws. Have a look back a couple of years and see how bad things really were.......We could still have the likes of McCormack and Abbot on our books.
It always makes me laugh when people go on about the mistakes that managers make as if there's a single right answer to each possible decision which can be deduced in advance. The reality is far less clear cut than that. Some decisions may work better under certain circumstances, but it's not always possible to foresee the outcome until a particular formation/line-up/tactic is tried. Even then, something that works on one occasion might not work on another. Hindsight is a wonderful thing that fans on internet forums are blessed with; managers aren't.
The problems with this model of Manager as Mistake Maker are that it assumes that: - There's a single best choice to be made. Whereas in reality decisions often involve a trade-off between benefits and drawbacks and certain changes may be of equal overall worth. - You can predict what the outcomes of a decision will be. Oftentimes luck has a huge part to play. - Players are always consistent. Whereas in reality player performance can vary considerably. - Players always do what the manager wants. They don't. - That situations are consistent across time. They aren't; what works well when first introduced may become less effective as other managers work out how your team plays. For example, a formation that works for a while may stop working when other managers figure out how to counter it. Knowing at which point you'll get rumbled is impossible though because you can't see inside other peoples' heads.
Decision making is therefore a lot greyer and less clear cut than many people think it is. Fans tend to judge the decisions that managers make during a match against the outcome. Whereas managers don't have that benefit. The way that football is structured means that by the 'Manager as Mistake Maker' model, 50% of managers will always be getting it "wrong" because there will always be 50% of teams in the bottom half of the league. That doesn't mean that they've been making wrong decisions, that means the decisions they've made haven't worked out as well, but on an uneven playing surface that's not quite the same thing.
In Chris Powell we have a very good manager who, since promotion, seems to have had little support from above. As a crowd we shouldn't be moaning or sniping because things aren't going his way, we should be right behind him and the team giving our support. 100% Support!
I genuinely don't think the problems lie with Chris. That said, if a scapegoat is needed in he next couple of months, it will undoubtedly and unfortunately be his fate in the balance. That's the lot of football management. I hope and predict that he and the team will string some great results together when we all least expect it, it merely hasn't been the best of starts this time around.
Of couse he can get the sack....and it wouldn't be because of moaning fans. How many times over the past couple of seasons hace managers been sacked and we have all been totally amazed. Whether people like how capa is performing or not, nobody can question his love for the Club, his honesty and his integrity. For those reasons I believe there is more chance of CP resigning than getting the sack.......if results don't go our way.
This team isn't good enough to compete for a top half finish, no matter who is in charge that is the reality. With no money to spend and having to rely on U21 development players when Yann is out, what do people expect? I don't blame Powell, he is working with what he's got. Yes sometimes his substitutions are questionable, but think back to when he started playing 3-5-2, people were creaming their pants over it and how Powell was a genius for changing it up.
We've lost to Millwall.....again......it's inevitable and we should be used to it, the display was spineless but we'll recover from it and we should be judging Powell and the Team on a full season, not one shit game.
Well, at least this question has sparked a lively debate.I do however regret the fact that somebody has raised the suggestion of a ' Powell out Brigade.' What is obviously confusing you is that some of us happen not to believe that Chris can walk on water. I consider him to be a truly nice person, but I have criticised him for dodgy substitutions, and for tactical errors. You cannot surely look at the way our team is playing and not question the coaching. In terms of whether Chris could be sacked, I have learned that nobody is irreplaceable, but despite the odd criticism that I offer I have no desire to see him leaving right now.
This season has not surprised me, nor has it upset me. It was felt by most pre season that we were running a very lightweight squad and without any depth of class through it. As a result if form dips for any players or they get injured, there are very few options for bringing in a quality replacement. That is the problem Powell faces. As has already been pointed out, Powell put this squad together, so is responsible for who he picks to go out on the pitch. I very much doubt however, that the squad he has is the one he would have bought/chosen had he been able to bring in/buy players for positions that he thought were needed and would add to the squad. If players aren't performing what can he do. Can he afford to drop Yann, Solly, JJ, even Hamer? Has he got better potential players sat on the bench? No! So he puts out what he and most of the fans believe to be our best 11 each week and prays that they get a result.
As for whether he is replaceable or not, of course he is, he's a manager, replaceable with anyone held in as high regard, not a chance!!
Powell is a good manager who is still learning, but he needs his players and the fans to all pull together to achieve more of what we've had over the last two years. I hope he'll still be here in 10-15 years time. If he can bring more success to our club, i challenge anyone to say that they would want him to go!
It always makes me laugh when people go on about the mistakes that managers make as if there's a single right answer to each possible decision which can be deduced in advance. The reality is far less clear cut than that. Some decisions may work better under certain circumstances, but it's not always possible to foresee the outcome until a particular formation/line-up/tactic is tried. Even then, something that works on one occasion might not work on another. Hindsight is a wonderful thing that fans on internet forums are blessed with; managers aren't.
The problems with this model of Manager as Mistake Maker are that it assumes that: - There's a single best choice to be made. Whereas in reality decisions often involve a trade-off between benefits and drawbacks and certain changes may be of equal overall worth. - You can predict what the outcomes of a decision will be. Oftentimes luck has a huge part to play. - Players are always consistent. Whereas in reality player performance can vary considerably. - Players always do what the manager wants. They don't. - That situations are consistent across time. They aren't; what works well when first introduced may become less effective as other managers work out how your team plays. For example, a formation that works for a while may stop working when other managers figure out how to counter it. Knowing at which point you'll get rumbled is impossible though because you can't see inside other peoples' heads.
Decision making is therefore a lot greyer and less clear cut than many people think it is. Fans tend to judge the decisions that managers make during a match against the outcome. Whereas managers don't have that benefit. The way that football is structured means that by the 'Manager as Mistake Maker' model, 50% of managers will always be getting it "wrong" because there will always be 50% of teams in the bottom half of the league. That doesn't mean that they've been making wrong decisions, that means the decisions they've made haven't worked out as well, but on an uneven playing surface that's not quite the same thing.
In Chris Powell we have a very good manager who, since promotion, seems to have had little support from above. As a crowd we shouldn't be moaning or sniping because things aren't going his way, we should be right behind him and the team giving our support. 100% Support!
I still honestly think we have one of the best managers in the league by a mile. In speaking to a Watford fan at work, he often says that Zola makes all of the mistakes that we hear about SCP doing. If Powell had the tools and funds at his disposal that were the same as Zola, we would be up there challenging without a shadow of a doubt and would get promotion.
Anyone who honestly believes he is not up to it is crazy!
This.
Everytime SCP is interviewed you can tell he is desparate to improve the squad and desparate for money to do that because I think he has an idea in his head what he wants to do with it.
Haven't read everyone's posts, will do when got more time, but a ham cheese and onion omelette and chips deserves attention.
Southend Addick has nailed it for me with bells on, if we'd be given a ton of fish to spend on transfers then fair play, but we are potless, roll on a takeover, hope the new owners have got the nous to back and support Chris.
Comments
But this is the mad world of professional soccer an industry where big money can be made and lost at a blink of an eye.
So to my mind he can and statistically speaking was bound to be sacked unless he jumped first.
Now u thought we all understood the tiles as far as the owners were concerned - they don't give a toss about the fans unless none if us don't turn up on a Saturday. It didn't happen at Old Trafford or The Emirates and in reality it won't happen at VFR.
So be prepared as for as far as we know a P45 may already have been written.
Who would I like to see come in ?
Well Paul Hart is already at the club. I think he's settled as academy director but on a temporary basis I think he could steady the ship.
Personally I would like to see someone come in who knows the club.
So who is out there?
Pauli do canio. No thanks
He wouldn't stay around too long. Too erratic.
I'd go for Steve Brown. With gritty or curbs holding his hand just like keith peacock did to them. Failing that Nathan jones.
I'm just hoping that it doesn't come to this.
COYR
I feel like a broken record but we have a League One squad and Powell got top ten Championship performances out of them last year. If you think there's a manager out there than could do even better it's not Paul Hart, whose managerial record is dreadful, and neither Steve Brown nor Nathan Jones have any league management experience at all.
I can see arguments for a Curbs return, and even Tony Pulis - but this assumes that there's more that can come from this group. Bear in mind one week earlier we'd beaten Leicester and had a particularly strong draw at Watford, both sides who will be expecting to be in the promotion push. One week later, Powell's suddenly out of his depth, Dyer brings nothing and the coaching staff aren't up to it.
Come on. When he first took over Powell had a group of players not up to winning promotion from League One. Given some freedom in the transfer market he built a side that smashed record after record - achieving more than ANYONE has at third tier level in our entire history. He has the same players he had then. They've done tremendously well, but anyone can see that we lack quality and in particular quality in the centre of the park that can take hold of a game and make a difference.
Is it Powell's fault he's not been able to build on that success by bringing in Championship quality players? If it isn't, then address the root cause before digging out a manager who's brought us success when he's had the support to do so.
Lets get pulis in and see if his long ball game is better than Powell's.
COYR
A league championship
A record points tally
A top ten finish in the Championship
^^ All in the past year and a half. And because we've started slowly this campaign (we're not even in the fucking relegation zone!) it is 'evident' he's not up to the job apparently.
I'll tell you what is evident - many of our supporters do not deserve someone of Chris Powell's class and quality.
Let's just ignore that we controlled and outplayed Leicester - a much better team than Millwall and took a point off Watford who should have got promoted last season and could well do this year.
Should Powell be safe from the sack because he is a Charlton legend???? No thats not a good enough reason for anyone to safe. Should Powell get the boot i certainly wouldn't think of him with the same anger that i do whenever i think of Dowie and Pardew and he will forever be remembered in my eyes as the Charlton Playing Legend that he is and the Manager who got us out of League One.
Personally i don't want him sacked, i simply want him to learn from mistakes and learn quickly. I'd love Powell to be the managerial legend we all hope he would be. But if he is not up to the job then he shouldn't be protected because of who he is. I think he can do it and hope and pray every week that we turn this form around. A lot of the players need to accept responsibility as well.
We've had a tough start this season, not helped by losing some key players and not being able to replace them.
He's the best manager we've had since Curbs and look how that ended up when fans started moaning. I do not want a repeat of the last few years.
We could easily sack him, but replace him with who? Out of any realistic replacements, I can't actually think of anybody who is A) going to be any better and
I also believe that Chris Powell would be willing to stay with Charlton, and probably (hopefully) wouldn't be poached by another club, and I believe we owe him loyalty in the bad times as much as he will show us loyalty in the good times.
I'd question whether Powell could sack Charlton, not the other way round.
My thoughts exactly. Good post
Anyone who honestly believes he is not up to it is crazy!
The problems with this model of Manager as Mistake Maker are that it assumes that:
- There's a single best choice to be made. Whereas in reality decisions often involve a trade-off between benefits and drawbacks and certain changes may be of equal overall worth.
- You can predict what the outcomes of a decision will be. Oftentimes luck has a huge part to play.
- Players are always consistent. Whereas in reality player performance can vary considerably.
- Players always do what the manager wants. They don't.
- That situations are consistent across time. They aren't; what works well when first introduced may become less effective as other managers work out how your team plays. For example, a formation that works for a while may stop working when other managers figure out how to counter it. Knowing at which point you'll get rumbled is impossible though because you can't see inside other peoples' heads.
Decision making is therefore a lot greyer and less clear cut than many people think it is. Fans tend to judge the decisions that managers make during a match against the outcome. Whereas managers don't have that benefit. The way that football is structured means that by the 'Manager as Mistake Maker' model, 50% of managers will always be getting it "wrong" because there will always be 50% of teams in the bottom half of the league. That doesn't mean that they've been making wrong decisions, that means the decisions they've made haven't worked out as well, but on an uneven playing surface that's not quite the same thing.
In Chris Powell we have a very good manager who, since promotion, seems to have had little support from above. As a crowd we shouldn't be moaning or sniping because things aren't going his way, we should be right behind him and the team giving our support. 100% Support!
We've lost to Millwall.....again......it's inevitable and we should be used to it, the display was spineless but we'll recover from it and we should be judging Powell and the Team on a full season, not one shit game.
As for whether he is replaceable or not, of course he is, he's a manager, replaceable with anyone held in as high regard, not a chance!!
Powell is a good manager who is still learning, but he needs his players and the fans to all pull together to achieve more of what we've had over the last two years. I hope he'll still be here in 10-15 years time. If he can bring more success to our club, i challenge anyone to say that they would want him to go!
Award yourself a 'post of the week'.
Everytime SCP is interviewed you can tell he is desparate to improve the squad and desparate for money to do that because I think he has an idea in his head what he wants to do with it.
Southend Addick has nailed it for me with bells on, if we'd be given a ton of fish to spend on transfers then fair play, but we are potless, roll on a takeover, hope the new owners have got the nous to back and support Chris.