If Charlton did unload Alnwick because they were aware of his personal issues then I'd be bloody disgusted. If that were the case we should have been supporting and assisting him in whatever way we could not offloading him at the first opportunity. Also if we did then we also did Orient a big disservice. I don't however imagine this to be the case for one second.
If Charlton did unload Alnwick because they were aware of his personal issues then I'd be bloody disgusted. If that were the case we should have been supporting and assisting him in whatever way we could not offloading him at the first opportunity. Also if we did then we also did Orient a big disservice. I don't however imagine this to be the case for one second.
Neither do I, Large. But it may have been better if RM had not discussed the issue in public at all, then there would be no scope for confusion. There are some things that are just nobody else's business and not the right of anyone else to air publicly and that includes directors, as well as fans.
Well I for one don't believe a word RM says after he told a collective audience that Parky was being sacked and then turned round and gave him a new contract.
However, I digress. As you say any issues Ben had were personal and private and should remain as such and certainly shouldn't be open for discussion at a fans Q and A.
If Charlton did unload Alnwick because they were aware of his personal issues then I'd be bloody disgusted. If that were the case we should have been supporting and assisting him in whatever way we could not offloading him at the first opportunity. Also if we did then we also did Orient a big disservice. I don't however imagine this to be the case for one second.
Neither do I, Large. But it may have been better if RM had not discussed the issue in public at all, then there would be no scope for confusion. There are some things that are just nobody else's business and not the right of anyone else to air publicly and that includes directors, as well as fans.
I agree with that. The problem is that we all want to understand the rationale behind important decisions at the club . In fact that's one of the reasons why I buy VOTV from you.
The reason why the questions were asked was because in terms of football terms Alnwick's departure made no sense . The fact that a week later he was signed off by Orient raised legitimate questions about what was known and when .
That said ,I wish Ben well because I agree that in football terms he was our best goalie when he left.Let's hope Henderson is as good if not better.
Wages would seem the most likely complication. If we are signing a player who has been on PL wages it seems unlikely it will be to sit on the bench. But I agree we need to sign an experienced keeper. Alnwick might have been ideal, except that I can't imagine he would get back involved with RD.
Why would he have any beef with RD? Genuine question. Seems that he was out of the game very shortly afterwards (for whatever reason) so he can hardly claim to have been frozen out. He was sold but that has to be better than Thuram coming in and being frozen out and not given a chance elsewhere - and Riga proved that if our players were the better option over loanees, it would be them playing. Swings and roundabouts as far as I'm concerned - if Alnwick has a grudge against RD then more fool him, frankly.
It's not really about a grudge though, is it? RD wanted him replaced in goal by Thuram, who in the general view was not very good but had been told he would play. Alnwick was shipped out in short order after the Doncaster game very much against the manager's wishes - I'm told by a member of the management that they regarded him as the club's best goalkeeper at the time. There was a view within the playing side of the club at that point that it had degenerated into a circus.
Leaving aside who said what to whom and why, and the rights and wrongs, you just wouldn't think it prudent to put yourself back under that authority, would you, if you had other choices? And I doubt if RD would want to reverse himself either.
What happened after he went to Orient was personal, unpredicted and is nothing to do with the background to his departure from Charlton.
Unpredicted? Not according to RM
I don't think we can have that discussion, but if RM is suggesting for a moment that he was unloaded because of that it would be despicable behaviour by the club, wouldn't it?
Morally yes. Although I would personally seriously consider doing the same
Hmmm, talking about morals, isn't this the third time (at least) that you have talked about what was said during that meeting on CL despite the fact that the speaker asked everyone not to discuss on Internet forums and everyone agreed?
If Charlton did unload Alnwick because they were aware of his personal issues then I'd be bloody disgusted. If that were the case we should have been supporting and assisting him in whatever way we could not offloading him at the first opportunity. Also if we did then we also did Orient a big disservice. I don't however imagine this to be the case for one second.
Neither do I, Large. But it may have been better if RM had not discussed the issue in public at all, then there would be no scope for confusion. There are some things that are just nobody else's business and not the right of anyone else to air publicly and that includes directors, as well as fans.
I agree with that. The problem is that we all want to understand the rationale behind important decisions at the club . In fact that's one of the reasons why I buy VOTV from you.
The reason why the questions were asked was because in terms of football terms Alnwick's departure made no sense . The fact that a week later he was signed off by Orient raised legitimate questions about what was known and when .
That said ,I wish Ben well because I agree that in football terms he was our best goalie when he left.Let's hope Henderson is as good if not better.
But presumably you also want the truth and in this case I am not aware the issue has anything to do with football. It was not to the best of my knowledge a factor in Alnwick leaving, but I accept my info could be incomplete.
If it was then that is explosive and also an extraordinary thing for a director to put forward in a public forum, because it would appear to be morally indefensible.
If it wasn't then questions about what happened after he joined Orient are understandable curiosity from fans but it cannot be the club's - or any club official's - right to disclose private personal information that has no bearing on Charlton just because people ask.
Do think we need to bring in an experienced number one who can give confidence to the players infront of him. Such a big risk having Pope as number one and I personally don't think he's ready for it just yet, but he should definitely be involved with the squad
Out of curiousity how old was Sam Bartram when he made his Debut for the club? (Coming from Non-League Boldon Villa by the way rather than a League Two team).
If Charlton did unload Alnwick because they were aware of his personal issues then I'd be bloody disgusted. If that were the case we should have been supporting and assisting him in whatever way we could not offloading him at the first opportunity. Also if we did then we also did Orient a big disservice. I don't however imagine this to be the case for one second.
Neither do I, Large. But it may have been better if RM had not discussed the issue in public at all, then there would be no scope for confusion. There are some things that are just nobody else's business and not the right of anyone else to air publicly and that includes directors, as well as fans.
I agree with that. The problem is that we all want to understand the rationale behind important decisions at the club . In fact that's one of the reasons why I buy VOTV from you.
The reason why the questions were asked was because in terms of football terms Alnwick's departure made no sense . The fact that a week later he was signed off by Orient raised legitimate questions about what was known and when .
That said ,I wish Ben well because I agree that in football terms he was our best goalie when he left.Let's hope Henderson is as good if not better.
But presumably you also want the truth and in this case I am not aware the issue has anything to do with football. It was not to the best of my knowledge a factor in Alnwick leaving, but I accept my info could be incomplete.
If it was then that is explosive and also an extraordinary thing for a director to put forward in a public forum, because it would appear to be morally indefensible.
If it wasn't then questions about what happened after he joined Orient are understandable curiosity from fans but it cannot be the club's - or any club official's - right to disclose private personal information that has no bearing on Charlton just because people ask.
I live in East London walking distance to Brisbane Road and go to Orient a lot. I have heard the speculation from their perspective also.
I agree we need the truth or as much of it that is needed to be known and it is important is that the more lurid speculation is dismissed. Ben had legitimate reasons for leaving the O's which all of the sides involved accepted . The club allowed him to cancel his contract.
In terms of Charlton it is a question of who knew what and when if anything was indeed wrong . As I said above Murray never explicitly said anything inappropriate at the Counting House. It was more an impression he gave when telling the story about his absence on the day of the Middlesbrough game. At the VIP meeting a couple of weeks later he spoke about the reasons that Thuram was signed and that Alnwick's agent didn't give Charlton much time in deciding to offer a two year contract because Ben had other options . I didn't take notes at these meetings so I am working from memory.
My problem with the situation is that I thought Alnwick was our best keeper since Kiely or Carson and in my view better than Hamer . Getting back to topic I hope Henderson is as good.
You need 2 good goalkeepers pushing each other. And, for some reason, if there is one area that I would be more comfortable with English / Championship experience, it is in goal.
Much happier with him than I would have been with Logan Bailly etc. Think we need another right/centre midfielder. And another striker (allowing us to ship a couple out).
Then job done. With 3 weeks to go till the season starts and only a couple more to get in, plus all the work taking place around the Valley and infrastructure of the club, things couldn't realistically be much better for us.
Glad we've signed another keeper and he seems to be well regarded. Like many others I'd hoped for an experienced head who might share duties while Pope develops, but although he'll presumably come in as No.1, there can't be any guarantees, and ideally this will keep them both on their toes, while Phillips perhaps goes out on loan. This is a big vote of confidence in Henderson who'll surely be really keen now to prove himself as a first choice. In case of injury or loss of form Pope will still get his chances, though he's bound to be disappointed in the short term.
Happy with that, a keeper with experience at our level, but hungry as well, and someone Ben Roberts knows. A 3 year contract is surprisingly long, Moussa only got 2 years!
Happy with that, a keeper with experience at our level, but hungry as well, and someone Ben Roberts knows. A 3 year contract is surprisingly long, Moussa only got 2 years!
Remember there were reports that he was earning £20k a week at the Hammers . I do not know if that is true , but he would get nowhere near that with us . Therefore an extra year on the contract may have been put in as an incentive.
- Brave save at 24 seconds. - Could of been off his line quicker around 1 minute. - Lansbury scores at 1.13...you've got to be something extremely special to save that. - Flounders at 1.30, bit of a let off. Hard to say whether he should have just gone for the ball or not, but Chris Solly isn't leaving someone in that amount of space
We should not judge him based on what appears to be the only video of him on YouTube, especially give it's only one game
Good signing. I would prefer Nick Pope to stay with Charlton this season and get a few starts including maybe being our number one for the Carling cup matches (not likely to be many of those of course!). We need two good keepers challenging each other and I really don't think young Dillon is ready to step into the number 2 role if Pope goes out on loan again. We just need to ensure that Pope gets as much development by staying as he would going out on loan again.
- Brave save at 24 seconds. - Could of been off his line quicker around 1 minute. - Lansbury scores at 1.13...you've got to be something extremely special to save that. - Flounders at 1.30, bit of a let off. Hard to say whether he should have just gone for the ball or not, but Chris Solly isn't leaving someone in that amount of space
We should not judge him based on what appears to be the only video of him on YouTube, especially give it's only one game
Comments
However, I digress. As you say any issues Ben had were personal and private and should remain as such and certainly shouldn't be open for discussion at a fans Q and A.
I agree with that. The problem is that we all want to understand the rationale behind important decisions at the club . In fact that's one of the reasons why I buy VOTV from you.
The reason why the questions were asked was because in terms of football terms Alnwick's departure made no sense . The fact that a week later he was signed off by Orient raised legitimate questions about what was known and when .
That said ,I wish Ben well because I agree that in football terms he was our best goalie when he left.Let's hope Henderson is as good if not better.
If it was then that is explosive and also an extraordinary thing for a director to put forward in a public forum, because it would appear to be morally indefensible.
If it wasn't then questions about what happened after he joined Orient are understandable curiosity from fans but it cannot be the club's - or any club official's - right to disclose private personal information that has no bearing on Charlton just because people ask.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bartram... Based on this and my maths he was 20 years old himself...
I live in East London walking distance to Brisbane Road and go to Orient a lot. I have heard the speculation from their perspective also.
I agree we need the truth or as much of it that is needed to be known and it is important is that the more lurid speculation is dismissed. Ben had legitimate reasons for leaving the O's which all of the sides involved accepted . The club allowed him to cancel his contract.
In terms of Charlton it is a question of who knew what and when if anything was indeed wrong . As I said above Murray never explicitly said anything inappropriate at the Counting House. It was more an impression he gave when telling the story about his absence on the day of the Middlesbrough game. At the VIP meeting a couple of weeks later he spoke about the reasons that Thuram was signed and that Alnwick's agent didn't give Charlton much time in deciding to offer a two year contract because Ben had other options . I didn't take notes at these meetings so I am working from memory.
My problem with the situation is that I thought Alnwick was our best keeper since Kiely or Carson and in my view better than Hamer . Getting back to topic I hope Henderson is as good.
on OS
Welcome SH...........
Much happier with him than I would have been with Logan Bailly etc. Think we need another right/centre midfielder. And another striker (allowing us to ship a couple out).
Then job done. With 3 weeks to go till the season starts and only a couple more to get in, plus all the work taking place around the Valley and infrastructure of the club, things couldn't realistically be much better for us.
I can't say I've ever seen him play, is he better than Hamer?
Don't know much about him but his record shows he can do it at this level and he must already be leaving close by so minimal disruption for him.
Another longer than 1 year deal which is good.
Remember there were reports that he was earning £20k a week at the Hammers . I do not know if that is true , but he would get nowhere near that with us . Therefore an extra year on the contract may have been put in as an incentive.
As an aside, please keep this thread to Henderson now. any further Alnwick discussion please use one of the numerous Alnwick threads, ta
- Brave save at 24 seconds.
- Could of been off his line quicker around 1 minute.
- Lansbury scores at 1.13...you've got to be something extremely special to save that.
- Flounders at 1.30, bit of a let off. Hard to say whether he should have just gone for the ball or not, but Chris Solly isn't leaving someone in that amount of space
We should not judge him based on what appears to be the only video of him on YouTube, especially give it's only one game