To what extent will their be a debate about their religion if it turns out that the gunmen shooting the police this morning were unrelated to those attacking Charlie Hebdo yesterday?
Will there be close attention paid to the religion of the cowards bombing a kebab shop close to a mosque this morning?
If they claim they committed the attacks in the name of their religion or were heard chanting religious slogans whilst committing those attacks then I would expect there to be a debate about their religion.
Otherwise shootings and bombings are OK?
In my view, whatever the motive, these crimes should be condemned without exception.
This from Juan Cole is a very good article on who these people truly are and how we mustn't tar all Islam with the same brush or we will only exacerbate the problem.
I would say without any info to go on, that the shootings will be political and in the name of Islam and the bombing a racist and revenge attack against the religion of the shooters
And the hand grenades thrown into the courtyard of a mosque in Le Mans?
I would say without any info to go on, that the shootings will be political and in the name of Islam and the bombing a racist and revenge attack against the religion of the shooters
And the hand grenades thrown into the courtyard of a mosque in Le Mans?
Haven't seen this. If true then that's terrible. Ridiculous to carry out acts like that on innocent Muslims. Makes them no better than the people who carried out yesterday's attacks
To what extent will their be a debate about their religion if it turns out that the gunmen shooting the police this morning were unrelated to those attacking Charlie Hebdo yesterday?
Will there be close attention paid to the religion of the cowards bombing a kebab shop close to a mosque this morning?
If they claim they committed the attacks in the name of their religion or were heard chanting religious slogans whilst committing those attacks then I would expect there to be a debate about their religion.
Otherwise shootings and bombings are OK?
In my view, whatever the motive, these crimes should be condemned without exception.
I would say without any info to go on, that the shootings will be political and in the name of Islam and the bombing a racist and revenge attack against the religion of the shooters
And the hand grenades thrown into the courtyard of a mosque in Le Mans?
Haven't seen this. If true then that's terrible. Ridiculous to carry out acts like that on innocent Muslims. Makes them no better than the people who carried out yesterday's attacks
Very true but it is what the killers and the people throwing the grenades want ie an escalation of the hatred and violence as they believe it will drive people into different extremist camps.
Hopefully, as we saw with 7/7 and Lee Rigby, it won't do that but idiots on the far right/far left/fundamentalist extremes dream of a race/class/religious war being sparked by such events. It won't IMO but that's what they wish for.
To what extent will their be a debate about their religion if it turns out that the gunmen shooting the police this morning were unrelated to those attacking Charlie Hebdo yesterday?
Will there be close attention paid to the religion of the cowards bombing a kebab shop close to a mosque this morning?
If they claim they committed the attacks in the name of their religion or were heard chanting religious slogans whilst committing those attacks then I would expect there to be a debate about their religion.
Otherwise shootings and bombings are OK?
How on earth can you infer that from anything posted on this thread?
To what extent will their be a debate about their religion if it turns out that the gunmen shooting the police this morning were unrelated to those attacking Charlie Hebdo yesterday?
Will there be close attention paid to the religion of the cowards bombing a kebab shop close to a mosque this morning?
If they claim they committed the attacks in the name of their religion or were heard chanting religious slogans whilst committing those attacks then I would expect there to be a debate about their religion.
Otherwise shootings and bombings are OK?
How on earth can you infer that from anything posted on this thread?
It's what Chizz does. Best to ignore in most cases I have found
To what extent will their be a debate about their religion if it turns out that the gunmen shooting the police this morning were unrelated to those attacking Charlie Hebdo yesterday?
Will there be close attention paid to the religion of the cowards bombing a kebab shop close to a mosque this morning?
If they claim they committed the attacks in the name of their religion or were heard chanting religious slogans whilst committing those attacks then I would expect there to be a debate about their religion.
Otherwise shootings and bombings are OK?
In my view, whatever the motive, these crimes should be condemned without exception.
I would say without any info to go on, that the shootings will be political and in the name of Islam and the bombing a racist and revenge attack against the religion of the shooters
And the hand grenades thrown into the courtyard of a mosque in Le Mans? </blockquote
Exactly the same as what I said I dont think that any would be in the name of God, just racially motivated revenge attacks
Just wanted to go back to our discussion yesterday. While the last thing I want to do is score personal points, it turns out that my guess that they would turn out to be French citizens was bang on the money. Therefore border controls searching vans would not have helped in any way in this case. Free movement across borders is one of the cherished freedoms here in Continental Europe even if less so in the UK.
Even in those pictures Dazzler you can see people praising it. It seems like far more than "1%" of commenters on that particular thread we're in favor of the massacre of innocents.
They were french citizens of North African decent and that's my point
I will give you a scenario, if I was this way inclined
And I wanted to import a certain drug into the country, I would use the total lax controls of driving a non livery van over via the tunnel drive to Italy where my nth African contacts would be making land regularly, the route in from Tunisia to Italy is one that is used a hell of a lot
Now if I could do that with drugs, I could do it with guns and people
Without giving a geography lesson mainly as clem snide will confirm, because I used to get slung out of it most days
Tunisia has a very easy Rte into certain terrorism full countries where buying automatic assault rifles is as easy as buying milk here
If you add in to that the amount of french speaking north African countries where these pepole have contacts on the ground the countries like France, Germany, Holland, belguim are easy targets for these people and will continue to be so until that route is tightened up
They were french citizens of North African decent and that's my point
I will give you a scenario, if I was this way inclined
And I wanted to import a certain drug into the country, I would use the total lax controls of driving a non livery van over via the tunnel drive to Italy where my nth African contacts would be making land regularly, the route in from Tunisia to Italy is one that is used a hell of a lot
Now if I could do that with drugs, I could do it with guns and people
Without giving a geography lesson mainly as clem snide will confirm, because I used to get slung out of it most days
Tunisia has a very easy Rte into certain terrorism full countries where buying automatic assault rifles is as easy as buying milk here
If you add in to that the amount of french speaking north African countries where these pepole have contacts on the ground the countries like France, Germany, Holland, belguim are easy targets for these people and will continue to be so until that route is tightened up
They were french citizens of North African decent and that's my point
I will give you a scenario, if I was this way inclined
And I wanted to import a certain drug into the country, I would use the total lax controls of driving a non livery van over via the tunnel drive to Italy where my nth African contacts would be making land regularly, the route in from Tunisia to Italy is one that is used a hell of a lot
Now if I could do that with drugs, I could do it with guns and people
Without giving a geography lesson mainly as clem snide will confirm, because I used to get slung out of it most days
Tunisia has a very easy Rte into certain terrorism full countries where buying automatic assault rifles is as easy as buying milk here
If you add in to that the amount of french speaking north African countries where these pepole have contacts on the ground the countries like France, Germany, Holland, belguim are easy targets for these people and will continue to be so until that route is tightened up
But they were already and always in France, as the 7/7 bombers were UK born and raised.
The answer to the problem you describe - which I fully agree is a big problem - is to concentrate on the entry points to the Schengen zone. The richer northern countries will have to support the southern countries in this. It's already happening to some extent, I heard an interview with the commander of a patrol ship in the Gibralter Straits, she was German. And more resources for intelligence.
But you can bet your life they didnt learn how to shoot like that in France, and if you can get in you can get out, without anyone really knowing your movements,
What shocked me the most was that if I was anice English person who had the been spun by theses freaks I could reach Syria/ Iraq via the route I said without anyone knowing I had gone,
But you can bet your life they didnt learn how to shoot like that in France, and if you can get in you can get out, without anyone really knowing your movements,
What shocked me the most was that if I was anice English person who had the been spun by theses freaks I could reach Syria/ Iraq via the route I said without anyone knowing I had gone,
That is a huge huge part of the problem
It is. I just disagree with the idea that suddenly putting up borders again and hassling ordinary citizens will solve it.
The Provos trafficked arms - and victims - across the Irish border with impunity and had cells in places like Hamburg, in the days when there were borders all across Europe.
Until we find a way of stopping the crazy mothers, I would rather have inconvenience and hrs added to my day that goes through the sheer panic I had for ten mins, with wives and girlfriends calling me asking where their partners are
Until we find a way of stopping the crazy mothers, I would rather have inconvenience and hrs added to my day that goes through the sheer panic I had for ten mins, with wives and girlfriends calling me asking where their partners are
Well in the UK you have your wish. I can't even leave without some Border Police muppet asking me about my career history and retirement plans.
No Tunisia has rtes in that are very accessible to their border countries who have real terrorism links and is a much easier route in to the main land Europe than the Spanish Rte
Until we find a way of stopping the crazy mothers, I would rather have inconvenience and hrs added to my day that goes through the sheer panic I had for ten mins, with wives and girlfriends calling me asking where their partners are
Well in the UK you have your wish. I can't even leave without some Border Police muppet asking me about my career history and retirement plans.
I'd prefer some 'muppet' doing his job properly and inconveniencing you for a few minutes than not doing it properly and letting people go abroad, get radicalised, come back and commit a terror offence thanks.
seems a dark day today---probably just the rain and a grey London day.
how do you stop radicalizasion(sic) ? one party threw money at it (£40million)and the other has no idea---both clearly cant/dont work
if only 1 % of muslims in the UK are radicals thats between 20-30,000. Thats a huge amount.
If we agree that one of the basic elements of being "British" is TOLERANCE the thats fine. Where it becomes PANDERING to radical twats because they make a big noise it isnt.
Prayers rooms/moques everywhere as is Halal meat.
No more mosques to be built ---they aint needed as prayers can be done anywhere. No more prayer rooms--- see above No more halal counters in the major stores---go buy it at a halal butchers No more faith schools No segregation of females /males in classes
Donkeys years we have been told that INCLUSION in UK life etc is the way forward (its the British way).Yet the very same people who have banged on about INCLUSION are the very same people who has let the segregation of the muslim society from the rest of UK society.
Freedom to follow your religion is fine but tolernace should have a limit.
Until we find a way of stopping the crazy mothers, I would rather have inconvenience and hrs added to my day that goes through the sheer panic I had for ten mins, with wives and girlfriends calling me asking where their partners are
Well in the UK you have your wish. I can't even leave without some Border Police muppet asking me about my career history and retirement plans.
Yeah he really spotted my potential to become a radical Islamic fanatic. Top work. My point is, use the resources intelligently. But there's whole other thread about that. Forget it.
Until we find a way of stopping the crazy mothers, I would rather have inconvenience and hrs added to my day that goes through the sheer panic I had for ten mins, with wives and girlfriends calling me asking where their partners are
Well in the UK you have your wish. I can't even leave without some Border Police muppet asking me about my career history and retirement plans.
Yeah he really spotted my potential to become a radical Islamic fanatic. Top work. My point is, use the resources intelligently. But there's whole other thread about that. Forget it.
Becoming a radical Islamic fanatic is the example as we are on that topic. There are plenty of other reasons for being careful of why someone is leaving the country.There was clearly a reason they stopped to ask you some questions, rightly or wrongly and with the right or wrong info, but calling them muppets for doing their job is out of order is all I'm saying. Anyway this is moving away from the topic in hand.
Comments
In my view, whatever the motive, these crimes should be condemned without exception.
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-satirists.html
Hopefully, as we saw with 7/7 and Lee Rigby, it won't do that but idiots on the far right/far left/fundamentalist extremes dream of a race/class/religious war being sparked by such events. It won't IMO but that's what they wish for.
Just wanted to go back to our discussion yesterday. While the last thing I want to do is score personal points, it turns out that my guess that they would turn out to be French citizens was bang on the money. Therefore border controls searching vans would not have helped in any way in this case. Free movement across borders is one of the cherished freedoms here in Continental Europe even if less so in the UK.
They were french citizens of North African decent and that's my point
I will give you a scenario, if I was this way inclined
And I wanted to import a certain drug into the country, I would use the total lax controls of driving a non livery van over via the tunnel drive to Italy where my nth African contacts would be making land regularly, the route in from Tunisia to Italy is one that is used a hell of a lot
Now if I could do that with drugs, I could do it with guns and people
Without giving a geography lesson mainly as clem snide will confirm, because I used to get slung out of it most days
Tunisia has a very easy Rte into certain terrorism full countries where buying automatic assault rifles is as easy as buying milk here
If you add in to that the amount of french speaking north African countries where these pepole have contacts on the ground the countries like France, Germany, Holland, belguim are easy targets for these people and will continue to be so until that route is tightened up
The answer to the problem you describe - which I fully agree is a big problem - is to concentrate on the entry points to the Schengen zone. The richer northern countries will have to support the southern countries in this. It's already happening to some extent, I heard an interview with the commander of a patrol ship in the Gibralter Straits, she was German. And more resources for intelligence.
What shocked me the most was that if I was anice English person who had the been spun by theses freaks I could reach Syria/ Iraq via the route I said without anyone knowing I had gone,
That is a huge huge part of the problem
The Provos trafficked arms - and victims - across the Irish border with impunity and had cells in places like Hamburg, in the days when there were borders all across Europe.
how do you stop radicalizasion(sic) ? one party threw money at it (£40million)and the other has no idea---both clearly cant/dont work
if only 1 % of muslims in the UK are radicals thats between 20-30,000. Thats a huge amount.
If we agree that one of the basic elements of being "British" is TOLERANCE the thats fine. Where it becomes PANDERING to radical twats because they make a big noise it isnt.
Prayers rooms/moques everywhere as is Halal meat.
No more mosques to be built ---they aint needed as prayers can be done anywhere.
No more prayer rooms--- see above
No more halal counters in the major stores---go buy it at a halal butchers
No more faith schools
No segregation of females /males in classes
Donkeys years we have been told that INCLUSION in UK life etc is the way forward (its the British way).Yet the very same people who have banged on about INCLUSION are the very same people who has let the segregation of the muslim society from the rest of UK society.
Freedom to follow your religion is fine but tolernace should have a limit.