The enemy within. How on earth do you combat that.
We can make it safer for the the next generation by immediately stoping all state funding of religious schools. It should be illegal for any religious practice to take place in any school that receives a penny of state funding. Also, a new subject encompassing the enlightenment movement in europe, the removal of religious tyranny, the recognition of man's freedom of thought and the development of basic human rights should be compulsorily taught to every child for at least 3 or 4 hours every week in any school that receives a penny in state funding.
It is my impression that this subject is hardly covered anymore in the school curriculem.
If the next generation appreciate how important the enlightenment movement was to the development of the free world and the rights all those living in the free world have today (including those who want to observe their own peaceful religious traditions) the UK in 20 30 years will be a much less fertile place for the re-emergence of religious violence and intolerance.
Far too sensible a solution - it might offend some other minority in so doing!
What an absolute pleasure it would be to see your suggestion actually implemented. If only........
But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?
Northern Ireland being just one (of many) example.
Do you seriously believe that IRA terrorists and its leaders were motivated by religion, or particular interpretations of the bible? Do you not think that they were motivated by a deeply entrenched view that their country was part occupied by a foreign imperialist power? Perhaps it is you who should have paid more attention during history class!
Ah you are bringing back memories of my student days. Days when 28 kids went for an innocent night out in the Tavern in the Town in Birmingham and were blown to bits. Days when my own sister was 5 minutes from being caught up in the Harrods bomb. Days when they tried to blow up our entire cabinet.
I remember the student union discussions. I remember those that had tribally attached themselves to groupings like the Socialist Workers Party. They struggled to try and argue that the Tavern in the Town was somehow justified by events that happened in 1916.
The truth was that the IRA leadership were (are) fascists, and their foot soldiers who did the dirty work were violent criminals who would have otherwise been behind bars or in secure mental hospitals. It doesn't really matter whether they claimed religion or politics as their driving inspiration. And shame on those who claim to follow anti-fascist political beliefs and end up as apologists for terrorism carried out by fascists and psychopathic thugs.
I find it deeply offensive that you think that pointing out the difference in motivation between different terrorists attacks makes me an apologist for some of those attacks.
But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?
Northern Ireland being just one (of many) example.
Do you seriously believe that IRA terrorists and its leaders were motivated by religion, or particular interpretations of the bible? Do you not think that they were motivated by a deeply entrenched view that their country was part occupied by a foreign imperialist power? Perhaps it is you who should have paid more attention during history class!
Ah you are bringing back memories of my student days. Days when 28 kids went for an innocent night out in the Tavern in the Town in Birmingham and were blown to bits. Days when my own sister was 5 minutes from being caught up in the Harrods bomb. Days when they tried to blow up our entire cabinet.
I remember the student union discussions. I remember those that had tribally attached themselves to groupings like the Socialist Workers Party. They struggled to try and argue that the Tavern in the Town was somehow justified by events that happened in 1916.
The truth was that the IRA leadership were (are) fascists, and their foot soldiers who did the dirty work were violent criminals who would have otherwise been behind bars or in secure mental hospitals. It doesn't really matter whether they claimed religion or politics as their driving inspiration. And shame on those who claim to follow anti-fascist political beliefs and end up as apologists for terrorism carried out by fascists and psychopathic thugs.
I find it deeply offensive that you think that pointing out the difference in motivation between different terrorists attacks makes me an apologist for some of those attacks.
I was careful not to suggest any such thing of you personally.
Some pertinent points made by Bill Maher in the second half of this video in response to the usual diatribe about how today's islamic fanatics aren't representative of the muslim faith.
I keep thinking that no way are these murderers going to change what we do and say, but the truth is that it will serve to silence some people and our way of life will continue to change. Desperately sad.
That's OK. You had simply reminded me of my student union days when well meaning young people got drawn into quite obscene political stances.
Put simply, I just give very short thrift to "terrorists" who use either religion or politics/historic injustice to justify their atrocities. This lot, the IRA, or various Yugoslav extremists. Psychopathic thugs, nothing more. While I agree that the West has made appalling mistakes in the last 20 years, that can never be used to excuse events like today's.
delarivierdelarivier9:16pm via Twitter Web Client RT @Mr_Dave_Haslam: #CharlieHebdo cop lying on the street & killed at close range by a bullet to the head was a French Muslim, Ahmed Merabet
Some pertinent points made by Bill Maher in the second half of this video in response to the usual diatribe about how today's islamic fanatics aren't representative of the muslim faith.
I didn't like that. He at one point suggests there are no moderate Muslims. That's probably because he's American , and has had little exposure to Europe.
One of my most vivid memories of "Muslims" is from 1996 when the Bosnian war had forced thousands to flee. Many came to the Czech Republic. Some of them, with marketing qualifications, turned up in my office looking for a job. All three "races" were represented, but it was only if I enquired, that I would find out if they were Serb, Croat or Muslim. One day two attractive girls in miniskirts pitched up. It turned out they were Muslims. I got them talking about that had happened. I remember the reply.It is etched on my memory. "We all lived together in Sarajevo. Only 3% of us Muslims would even attend a mosque. We were Sarajevans, or so we thought.Then one day we woke up and our neighbours had guns, and we didn't. They had received the signal!!"
The West stood by, while Milosevic and his thugs committed genocide, in the name of things which happened in the 16th century. Some Middle Eastern types saw their chance and supplied much needed men and arms. I haven't spoken to any Bosnians for ages, but I fear that there are now "radicals" in Bosnia when before those wars, there simply weren't. The lesson: in Europe there are millions of moderate Muslims and in many cases you would never know you are looking at one. Indeed, as @kap10 has just pointed out, it would appear that these thugs have made just that mistake today.
"The suspects were named as brothers Said Kouachi and Cherif Kouachi, French nationals in their early 30s, and 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad, whose nationality is unclear."
In reality they will spend their life in jail and I imagine it will be a relatively cushy experience - kept away from harm etc.
Usually I'd suggest death in my fantasy world but that's no good for this type of vermin - it doesn't phase them - I dare say they were half expecting it when they started the day.
No, in my ideal existence they would spend the rest of their lives replacing animals as guinea pigs for trials to find cures for diseases etc. Hopefully utterly painful yet beneficial to mankind.
"A 2005 Pittsburgh Tribune Review report, citing Kouachi's lawyer, said the would-be terrorist was not religious, drank alcohol, smoked marijuana, had premarital sex with his girlfriend and had a job delivering pizzas. At the time, Kouachi had learned "the basics" on how to handle Kalashnikovs, Le Monde reported."
I think kentaddick makes a very good point when he talks about the economic basis for the terrorism we have witnessed in recent years. However, as strong as this point is, I don't think that it is sufficient to explain the nature of these attacks. It seems clear to me that there is a very strong religious aspect to this.
It is very hard to disregard the language of spite and intolerance that is found in the Quran and claim that Islam is a religion of peace, just as it is very difficult to to disregard the language of spite and intolerance that is found in the Bible and claim that Christianity is a religion of peace. Sure, the decent Muslims outnumber the violent and reactionary Muslims, just as the decent Christians outnumber the violent and reactionary Christians. But that has more to do with human nature and the evolutionary benefits of altruism and mutual kindness than it has with the ancient scriptures that are followed in various ways by the adherents of these religions. It is also very hard to ignore the almost ubiquitous cries of "Allahu Akbar" that accompany these atrocities, and the fact that most of the poisoned minds [though seemingly not today's] that carry them out seem quite comfortable with their own deaths in the mistaken belief that they will become heroes in some great misogynistic virgin-breaking paradise. However, even this may not be enough to explain the current rate and ferocity of attacks. What we must never forget is that the best recruiting sergeants that the jihadis ever had were our own western leaders pontificating about their own, Christian, beliefs when discussing wars that they started. Wars that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in predominantly Islamic countries.
“I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, ‘George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did." George W. Bush at Israeli-Palestinian summit, 2003.
“This confrontation [the Iraq war] is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins”. George W. Bush In private meeting with Jacques Chirac, 2003 [to be fair to JC, he was not impressed].
"That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgment that -- well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgment is made by other people….If you believe in God, it's made by God as well." Tony Blair in television interview with Michael Parkinson March, 2006.
"Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand". Ephesians 6:13, quoted by Donald Rumsfeld to GWB in an official briefing on the Iraq war.
“God’s word reminds us that Jesus was the Prince of Peace. With that in mind, I would like to pay particular tribute to our brave service men and women…” David Cameron, Christmas Message 2012 [in fairness to DC he never started a war, but crass linkages like this do not help]
The four cartoons that charlie Hebdo magazine have published that mocks the four main religions, Should be Republished by the free press of Europe and on a given day in main cities across the continent, millions of people should hold the pictures aloft with smiles and Laughter.
You can't beat an invisible enemy but you can mock them until they implode.
Comments
What an absolute pleasure it would be to see your suggestion actually implemented.
If only........
Our intelligence services are good but not infallible.
Put simply, I just give very short thrift to "terrorists" who use either religion or politics/historic injustice to justify their atrocities. This lot, the IRA, or various Yugoslav extremists. Psychopathic thugs, nothing more. While I agree that the West has made appalling mistakes in the last 20 years, that can never be used to excuse events like today's.
delarivierdelarivier9:16pm via Twitter Web Client
RT @Mr_Dave_Haslam: #CharlieHebdo cop lying on the street & killed at close range by a bullet to the head was a French Muslim, Ahmed Merabet
One of my most vivid memories of "Muslims" is from 1996 when the Bosnian war had forced thousands to flee. Many came to the Czech Republic. Some of them, with marketing qualifications, turned up in my office looking for a job. All three "races" were represented, but it was only if I enquired, that I would find out if they were Serb, Croat or Muslim. One day two attractive girls in miniskirts pitched up. It turned out they were Muslims. I got them talking about that had happened. I remember the reply.It is etched on my memory. "We all lived together in Sarajevo. Only 3% of us Muslims would even attend a mosque. We were Sarajevans, or so we thought.Then one day we woke up and our neighbours had guns, and we didn't. They had received the signal!!"
The West stood by, while Milosevic and his thugs committed genocide, in the name of things which happened in the 16th century. Some Middle Eastern types saw their chance and supplied much needed men and arms. I haven't spoken to any Bosnians for ages, but I fear that there are now "radicals" in Bosnia when before those wars, there simply weren't. The lesson: in Europe there are millions of moderate Muslims and in many cases you would never know you are looking at one. Indeed, as @kap10 has just pointed out, it would appear that these thugs have made just that mistake today.
"The suspects were named as brothers Said Kouachi and Cherif Kouachi, French nationals in their early 30s, and 18-year-old Hamyd Mourad, whose nationality is unclear."
7/7 and Woolwich.
Usually I'd suggest death in my fantasy world but that's no good for this type of vermin - it doesn't phase them - I dare say they were half expecting it when they started the day.
No, in my ideal existence they would spend the rest of their lives replacing animals as guinea pigs for trials to find cures for diseases etc. Hopefully utterly painful yet beneficial to mankind.
"A 2005 Pittsburgh Tribune Review report, citing Kouachi's lawyer, said the would-be terrorist was not religious, drank alcohol, smoked marijuana, had premarital sex with his girlfriend and had a job delivering pizzas. At the time, Kouachi had learned "the basics" on how to handle Kalashnikovs, Le Monde reported."
Front page of tomorrow's Independent:
It is very hard to disregard the language of spite and intolerance that is found in the Quran and claim that Islam is a religion of peace, just as it is very difficult to to disregard the language of spite and intolerance that is found in the Bible and claim that Christianity is a religion of peace. Sure, the decent Muslims outnumber the violent and reactionary Muslims, just as the decent Christians outnumber the violent and reactionary Christians. But that has more to do with human nature and the evolutionary benefits of altruism and mutual kindness than it has with the ancient scriptures that are followed in various ways by the adherents of these religions. It is also very hard to ignore the almost ubiquitous cries of "Allahu Akbar" that accompany these atrocities, and the fact that most of the poisoned minds [though seemingly not today's] that carry them out seem quite comfortable with their own deaths in the mistaken belief that they will become heroes in some great misogynistic virgin-breaking paradise. However, even this may not be enough to explain the current rate and ferocity of attacks. What we must never forget is that the best recruiting sergeants that the jihadis ever had were our own western leaders pontificating about their own, Christian, beliefs when discussing wars that they started. Wars that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in predominantly Islamic countries.
“I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, ‘George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did." George W. Bush at Israeli-Palestinian summit, 2003.
“This confrontation [the Iraq war] is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before a New Age begins”. George W. Bush In private meeting with Jacques Chirac, 2003 [to be fair to JC, he was not impressed].
"That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgment that -- well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgment is made by other people….If you believe in God, it's made by God as well." Tony Blair in television interview with Michael Parkinson March, 2006.
"Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand". Ephesians 6:13, quoted by Donald Rumsfeld to GWB in an official briefing on the Iraq war.
“God’s word reminds us that Jesus was the Prince of Peace. With that in mind, I would like to pay particular tribute to our brave service men and women…” David Cameron, Christmas Message 2012 [in fairness to DC he never started a war, but crass linkages like this do not help]
Should be Republished by the free press of Europe and on a given day in main cities across the continent,
millions of people should hold the pictures aloft with smiles and Laughter.
You can't beat an invisible enemy but you can mock them until they implode.