Well you can't give equivalent examples of peaceful Islam can you? That's the point.
only algebra and lots of advanced mathematics have come through islam. Their healthcare was incredibly superior to ours in the west. In fact the arguement can be made (and is regularly cited by extremists) that islam was extremely peaceful before western meddling.
I'm sorry but this is ahistorical tosh. The Ottoman Empire was a great seat of learning during the European dark ages. But that was because it was a monarchy and not a theocracy. Against that you really just have to read the Koran which is even more bloodthirsty than the Old Testament (unsurprising as Mohammed was continually fighting wars while writing it). See also the Arabian slade trade which was just as extensive as the Atlantic slave trade.
Islam is not a relgious of peace. Many Muslims are but anyone who believes that the Koran is handed down by down by God must aslo believe that God orders war against non-believers, rape of their women folk and enslavement. And yes, Christianity & Christian were very similar until the Enlightenment albeit moderated by the more peaceful gospels.
Wish people would just cotton on that God is about as real as Spiderman.
It's actually tragic that people are so desperate for a purpose in life they resort to killing innocents in the name of something that is completely made up.
People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".
That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others
yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
point is though that I don't see people going around the world committing murder and acts of terrorism and then quoting passages from the bible as justification
I may be wrong on this point though and am happy to be corrected with recent examples?
People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".
That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others
yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
The difference being that the Bible has adapted, changed with the times. Mohammed stated that the Quoran must never be changed,ever, and whosoever does, will lose their head. It's the same now as it was originally. That's why we have these extreme interpretations, and they are just following Mohammed's writings. My wife is Muslim BTW.
Which kind of renders it useless does it not? It's either word of a so called God or it isn't? How can the foundations of any religion 'adapt' That alone should be enough for anyone stupid enough to believe in religion to realise it's all one big work of fiction.
People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".
That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others
yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
point is though that I don't see people going around the world committing murder and acts of terrorism and then quoting passages from the bible as justification
I may be wrong on this point though and am happy to be corrected with recent examples?
Someone has listed a large number of examples of different fundamentalist Christian organisations who have committed atrocities based on them not understanding their own religion. The Lords Resistance Army based in Central Africa in particular engage in activities akin to ISIS in the hope of building a society based on the principles of the biblical 10 commandments. Just like ISIS they fundamentally misunderstand the religion they claim to serve.
RIP to all those killed to today, an absolute tragedy and I'm extra thankful for this countries security services who have thus far managed to keep us safe from most of the large number of similar atrocities that I'm sure are planned against us every year.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".
That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others
yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
point is though that I don't see people going around the world committing murder and acts of terrorism and then quoting passages from the bible as justification
I may be wrong on this point though and am happy to be corrected with recent examples?
Did you read the thread? Plenty of recent examples given.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Well, I've read this post 3 times and can find absolutely nothing I disagree with. Brilliant!
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
I read it as anyone who has the views written in the post.
Turn back the clock 200 years ago in Paris children were being burnt alive along with their parents for being posh.
Historically, there's nothing unusual about what muslim extremists are doing except that most societies have evolved away from feudal systems governed by religious leaders with absolute authority, where killing the opposition was sanctioned by God and perfectly acceptable. Britain has, France has, every European State in their past history has commissioned atrocities no less evil than current day terrorists in the name of God.
Islam as practised by many is still within a feudal system and is still trapped in medieval values where you have no individual will and must follow the orders of the religious authority. Instead of a holy monarch with his bible we have holy Mullahs with the Koran. Islamic leaders still operate under the laws of a God rather than the laws of the people as in the West, and that is the main source of the conflict between East and West.
That is why its a religious problem, only religion within this context can demand an act of violence and vengeance without pity because it regarded as God's will. Western foreign policy is not the justification for the violence, it is simply taken as justification by the fanatics for their rantings to strengthen their position of power. Outside of a medieval feudal culture, those rantings would have no validity and would be seen for what they are.
It's Islam's problem, no one else's and blaming it on actions done in the of name Western citizens will not solve Islam's problem.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
You could be referencing any religious text there.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
Extremists/facsists,same thing.
Not quite but I'll take it as you don't mean every Muslim.
SALMAN RUSHDIE'S COMMENT: ‘Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. “Respect for religion” has become a code phrase meaning “fear of religion”. Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.’
These people are angry. Although they tell themselves and us it is because someone has offended their religion, we all know that this is beyond irrational and cannot be the real reason why they think it is acceptable to murder innocent people.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
Extremists/facsists,same thing.
Not quite but I'll take it as you don't mean every Muslim.
Sorry,I thought it was obvious that I was referring to Isis et al and not muslims per se.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
Extremists/facsists,same thing.
Not quite but I'll take it as you don't mean every Muslim.
Sorry,I thought it was obvious that I was referring to Isis et al and not muslims per se.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Just to clarify, you are talking about extremists rather than anyone that follows Islam?
Extremists/facsists,same thing.
Not quite but I'll take it as you don't mean every Muslim.
Sorry,I thought it was obvious that I was referring to Isis et al and not muslims per se.
I thought so but just thought I'd check. Referring to people as "they" left it a bit open to interpretation that is all. And yes I agree with you
Comments
Islam is not a relgious of peace. Many Muslims are but anyone who believes that the Koran is handed down by down by God must aslo believe that God orders war against non-believers, rape of their women folk and enslavement. And yes, Christianity & Christian were very similar until the Enlightenment albeit moderated by the more peaceful gospels.
It's actually tragic that people are so desperate for a purpose in life they resort to killing innocents in the name of something that is completely made up.
Absolute tragedy.
Edit: repeated myself
Never seen God though
I may be wrong on this point though and am happy to be corrected with recent examples?
If there's a god it must be a sadist with so many young children dying in pain and hunger around the world before they reach there 10th Birthday.
Your right Uboat the times don't come into it,
Four about 4 thousand years people have been killing each other in the name of one deity or another.
RIP to all those killed to today, an absolute tragedy and I'm extra thankful for this countries security services who have thus far managed to keep us safe from most of the large number of similar atrocities that I'm sure are planned against us every year.
They are terrified of women so they subjugate them,lock them away,deny them education, butcher their genitalia and if none of this browbeats the woman into the required abject servitude,they murder them and call it an honour killing.
Terrified of homosexuals - and God forbid,their own latent homosexuality - they murder them.
Unnerved that the apostate has seen through their tin-pot fairy story of a religion,they murder them.
They are terrified of intellect,they are terrified of wit,they are terrified of satire,discourse,free-thinking,individualism,they are terrified of anything that isn't mired in a medieval,patriarchal desert.
They are terrified that theinfidel the kafir the non-believer might,just might, be right.
Even as a liberal, I am now tired of the soggy,melioristic attitude afforded Islam.If it ever came to it and my way of life was threatened by these fascists - and without giving a second thought to 'descending to their level-I would shoot one in the mouth and feel nothing.
Of the attackers, he said: "Their prophet is Satan. There is no connection between the Islamic faith and this minority."
I read it as anyone who has the views written in the post.
Historically, there's nothing unusual about what muslim extremists are doing except that most societies have evolved away from feudal systems governed by religious leaders with absolute authority, where killing the opposition was sanctioned by God and perfectly acceptable. Britain has, France has, every European State in their past history has commissioned atrocities no less evil than current day terrorists in the name of God.
Islam as practised by many is still within a feudal system and is still trapped in medieval values where you have no individual will and must follow the orders of the religious authority. Instead of a holy monarch with his bible we have holy Mullahs with the Koran. Islamic leaders still operate under the laws of a God rather than the laws of the people as in the West, and that is the main source of the conflict between East and West.
That is why its a religious problem, only religion within this context can demand an act of violence and vengeance without pity because it regarded as God's will. Western foreign policy is not the justification for the violence, it is simply taken as justification by the fanatics for their rantings to strengthen their position of power. Outside of a medieval feudal culture, those rantings would have no validity and would be seen for what they are.
It's Islam's problem, no one else's and blaming it on actions done in the of name Western citizens will not solve Islam's problem.
These people are angry. Although they tell themselves and us it is because someone has offended their religion, we all know that this is beyond irrational and cannot be the real reason why they think it is acceptable to murder innocent people.
RIP to those dead.
Excellent post Redskin.