Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too. Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example. Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?
Muslims do this because you have people like anjem choudrey preaching hate against infidels and using passages like the one provided by cafcnick to spread the word of the prophet to enable their passage into 'paradise'.
I agree it's not all Muslims and it is the minority but people who deny that there's a problem within the religion of Islam are quite frankly deluded.
there is an entire continent in africa where there are regularly killings in the name of the christian god.
Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too. Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example. Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
thats just from a quick google. The christian God is a fucking dick a lot of the time.
But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?
Northern Ireland being just one (of many) example.
When extremists speak "in the name of their religion" they always stand apart from the faith they claim to represent.
Extremist Christians no more represent me, a moderate Christian, than Islamic Fundamentalists represent the average Muslim.
Note that a lot of the divisions between Catholics and Protestants in NI revolve around the interpretation of scripture and religious tradition. For a number of those dividing points you could legitimately interpret scripture one way or the other. A lot of traditions are either differences of opinion or preferences. Either way its perfectly possible to live alongside one another and agree to disagree politely and amicably - I certainly do.
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religious beliefs.
Of course you get the usual talk of people interpreting them wrongly - well who are you to say they are interpreting it wrongly? The verses in the Qur'an seem pretty violent to me. If anything, the law abiding muslims living here are the ones who are probably not behaving in a way the Qur'an intended!
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."
I don't know who said that and to be honest with you I can point you in the direction if the second sentence in my above post.
It's a quote from the peace loving bible, which another poster had requested.
It depends what time scale you're talking about, the last 10 years? Probably not. The last 2,000 - almost certainly.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a defender of Islam, I believe all religion to be equally dangerous, if it was up to me I'd have a way with the lot.
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religions - religions that make absolutely no sense and have no relevance to today's society.
But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?
Muslims do this because you have people like anjem choudrey preaching hate against infidels and using passages like the one provided by cafcnick to spread the word of the prophet to enable their passage into 'paradise'.
I agree it's not all Muslims and it is the minority but people who deny that there's a problem within the religion of Islam are quite frankly deluded.
Anders Behring Breivik Scott Philip Roeder Lord's Resistance Army Eric Rudolph Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre Army of God James Charles Kopp John C. Salvi KKK Have a look in any African country as well.
Kkk wasn't in the name of religion was it? As I said anyone carrying out these attacks in the name of religion need slaughtering, no matter what religion they follow.
Also as I say, is/was it as frequent as Islamic extremists
I was shocked that my Van could go through 4 counties and no one check who i am or what i was carrying, and tbh even the checks getting into the uk were a 2 second visual on a passport through the window, some times freedom of movement is not a good thing
Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too. Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example. Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.
Hi uboat,
Here's a couple from a quick google search:
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes” Deuteronomy 20:10-17
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
Please remember that the vast, vast majority of victims of Islamic fundamentalism in 2014, have themselves been Muslim.
Makes it even worse then that the so called moderate Islam stills does nothing to look after its own
What do you think they can do to stop it?
Mentioned this already, try something rather than do nothing, unless doing nothing is the new approach then we might as well turn a blind eye and bury our heads in the sand
But is it repetitive over years and years. Wasn't the IRA politically motivated as opposed to religiously?
Anyone who intends or carries out acts of terror on the innocent public in the name of religion deserves slaughtering. Most of the people carrying out these attacks are Muslims. I feel sorry for moderate Muslims as their name is being tarred with the same brush but at the same time these attacks are becoming more and more frequent from Muslims and you can't help but feel wary of potential attacks in the future.
At the time the northern Ireland events were on the news every night and we're frequently dressed up as a religious divide. To this day ferry loads of football fans go across to Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic.
IS appears to be a political movement building a pseudo state in a lawless part of the world. And it is this which "inspires" misguided and disenfranchised individuals to back it against western targets.
I don't know much about IS but I have a feeling we will find out a lot more in the years to come. Ideally the west will back Turkey and other neighbouring countries to sort this out but we don't live in an ideal world.
I was shocked that my Van could go through 4 counties and no one check who i am or what i was carrying, and tbh even the checks getting into the uk were a 2 second visual on a passport through the window, some times freedom of movement is not a good thing
if i get stopped repeatedly on a journey from leeds to london simply due to "routine checks" that's when i'll consider leaving the country, maybe even before that. Remember restrictions on personal freedoms is exactly what these extremists want.
OK there is no appeasement and cases such as Rushdie, hate preaching in mosques (and on the streets ffs), demonstrators demanding murder left unarrested, state funding of organisations that call for genocide are all imaginary.
I think it's clear that our government have been terrified of attacking Islamic sensibilities as they rightly believe that many of it's followers will react violently. Combined with the additional fear of being called racist and you have a recipe for inaction that we see today. By all means you can live in denial but I'm really worried about the next big attack being in London and also what will happen in response.
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religions - religions that make absolutely no sense and have no relevance to today's society.
Unfortunately both religion and politics become easy badges by which lots of angry men whose lives have otherwise been failures find some thing to belong to, to give their lives some meaning, no matter how twisted. The average IRA man was usually somebody with a criminal record, often violent. The father of my buddy at Uni,both father and son were psychologists, had completed a study which showed that the number of patients in care for psychopathic issues had fallen in correlation with a rise in estimated membership of the Provos. The inference was clear, although of course he could not nail it, because members of the Provos didn't exactly make their medical records known.
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religions - religions that make absolutely no sense and have no relevance to today's society.
I appreciate Mitchell's point of view, but I disagree. I would like someone to tell me with a straight face that the atroscities of 9/11, 7/7, Boston, Madrid and this morning's events were committed by men who purely used Islam as an 'excuse'.
so where is Islam peaceful then ? Uk ?----------------7/7 etc USA ?--------------9/11 Thailand ? ----- fighting on the border for 30 years Malaysia ? ---- see above China ?-----the Wega (sic) issue Russia ?-----Chechnia Indonesia-----Bali Africa ?------200 kids kidnapped----hundreds dead in Embassy bombings--genocide of Christians in Dofha. Indian ?---Mombi Pakistan ?-----200 school kids dead Middle East ?-----the genocide of Christians etc etc etc etc
of course its not all Muslims but for feck sack the "religion of peace" thats just utter bollox
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religions - religions that make absolutely no sense and have no relevance to today's society.
I appreciate Mitchell's point of view, but I disagree. I would like someone to tell me with a straight face that the atroscities of 9/11, 7/7, Boston, Madrid and this morning's events were committed by men who purely used Islam as an 'excuse'.
why else did they do it? Of course they used their belief in islam as an excuse to kill people.
And all our politicians do is to "condemn". Still, more than any Muslim Council seem to do - unless I've missed it.
Every time something like this happens, someone like you posts a comment about Muslims not condemning it and are then referred to links showing that they are.
Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too. Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example. Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.
Deuteronomy 17. If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
If there was a big attack in London tomorrow with many dead due to muslims getting offended that our banks charge interest or we eat bacon or something stupid, David Cameron would write a 140-long character tweet saying that he condemns the attacks but wishes to reassure us that Islam is the religion of peace.
When some says Islam, what do you honestly think of?......peace or death/destruction/bombs/war?
I dont think that of any other religion.
Fair play, I can see what you're getting at, and it is a common view at the moment I'd bet, but it doesn't make it right for me. For example why does it have to be peace or violence that you think of? Necessarily.
The 'religion of peace' bit gets trotted out sarcastically very regularly as it is a pretty nice sound bite to say between tuts - but not many religions are 100% peaceful. Not Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or even Buddhism.
When I think of any religion, I generally think the same thing and it's not massively complimentary.
What I would say is, I would put a decent wedge on there being many times more kind acts carried out in the name of religion day to day that horrific ones. Barely ever makes the news though. Sad times.
so where is Islam peaceful then ? Uk ?----------------7/7 etc USA ?--------------9/11 Thailand ? ----- fighting on the border for 30 years Malaysia ? ---- see above China ?-----the Wega (sic) issue Russia ?-----Chechnia Indonesia-----Bali Africa ?------200 kids kidnapped----hundreds dead in Embassy bombings--genocide of Christians in Dofha. Indian ?---Mombi Parkistan ?-----200 school kids dead Middle East ?-----the genocide of Christians etc etc etc etc
of course its not all Muslims but for feck say the "religion of peace" thats just utter bollox
Agreed.
The worst are the people who say 'they're not doing it in the name of Islam'
they are.
Today they were reportedly screaming 'the prophet has been avenged'
When they murdered Lee Rigby they were screaming 'Allah Akbar' or whatever it is. It is 100% religiously motivated
I wasn't defending Christianity when I posted that verse on the previous page - far from it (Sadie you can vouch for that, ha).
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religions - religions that make absolutely no sense and have no relevance to today's society.
I appreciate Mitchell's point of view, but I disagree. I would like someone to tell me with a straight face that the atroscities of 9/11, 7/7, Boston, Madrid and this morning's events were committed by men who purely used Islam as an 'excuse'.
why else did they do it? Of course they used their belief in islam as an excuse to kill people.
No I genuinely believe that these people think they are doing the right thing. It is not an excuse for them.
Well you can't give equivalent examples of peaceful Islam can you? That's the point.
only algebra and lots of advanced mathematics have come through islam. Their healthcare was incredibly superior to ours in the west. In fact the arguement can be made (and is regularly cited by extremists) that islam was extremely peaceful before western meddling.
I was shocked that my Van could go through 4 counties and no one check who i am or what i was carrying, and tbh even the checks getting into the uk were a 2 second visual on a passport through the window, some times freedom of movement is not a good thing
Well, I would not be at all surprised to learn these scumbags have French nationality and been brought up in a grim Paris suburb.
As @kentaddick said, this sort of reaction, understandable as it is, is exactly what these people want. They hate the idea that people in a Dutch town nip across to Belgium for a good lunch and would like nothing better than to create huge traffic jams which stop them from doing so. And of course these scumbags will work out how to avoid being exposed to such checks, while ordinary people find their lives disrupted.
I was shocked that my Van could go through 4 counties and no one check who i am or what i was carrying, and tbh even the checks getting into the uk were a 2 second visual on a passport through the window, some times freedom of movement is not a good thing
I crossed Europe by train and was amazed by the lack of checks too. Is your van plain or logo'd up out of interest?
Well you can't give equivalent examples of peaceful Islam can you? That's the point.
only algebra and lots of advanced mathematics have come through islam. Their healthcare was incredibly superior to ours in the west. In fact the arguement can be made (and is regularly cited by extremists) that islam was extremely peaceful before western meddling.
So it's the wests fault that these people follow the 'prophet muhammeds' orders of making infidels 'burn in hell fire' or whatever it is
Well you can't give equivalent examples of peaceful Islam can you? That's the point.
there is also a well known verse in the qu'ran which states that if you kill one person it is akin to killing the whole of humanity. ie, killing is a despicable crime.
Please remember that the vast, vast majority of victims of Islamic fundamentalism in 2014, have themselves been Muslim.
Makes it even worse then that the so called moderate Islam stills does nothing to look after its own
What do you think they can do to stop it?
Mentioned this already, try something rather than do nothing, unless doing nothing is the new approach then we might as well turn a blind eye and bury our heads in the sand
Assuming you are Christian, which might be totally wide of the mark and I apologise if it is, but;
What exactly have you done about the fruit cake Christians blowing up aborition clinics in America or the countless people murdered at the hands of Christians across Africa?
Education is the solution to this problem and getting rid of any religious schools in the UK is, in my opinion, the first step towards stopping these 'home grown' attacks.
Comments
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
thats just from a quick google. The christian God is a fucking dick a lot of the time.
Extremist Christians no more represent me, a moderate Christian, than Islamic Fundamentalists represent the average Muslim.
Note that a lot of the divisions between Catholics and Protestants in NI revolve around the interpretation of scripture and religious tradition. For a number of those dividing points you could legitimately interpret scripture one way or the other. A lot of traditions are either differences of opinion or preferences. Either way its perfectly possible to live alongside one another and agree to disagree politely and amicably - I certainly do.
But i've seen various comments from people saying "oh why do people always blame religion for this, it is just some nutcases murdering people". My response to that is no, no it isn't - these attacks are motivated by religious beliefs.
Of course you get the usual talk of people interpreting them wrongly - well who are you to say they are interpreting it wrongly? The verses in the Qur'an seem pretty violent to me. If anything, the law abiding muslims living here are the ones who are probably not behaving in a way the Qur'an intended!
I imagine a lot of abortion clinics around the world might also disagree that Christianity has no evil believers.
I was shocked that my Van could go through 4 counties and no one check who i am or what i was carrying, and tbh even the checks getting into the uk were a 2 second visual on a passport through the window, some times freedom of movement is not a good thing
Here's a couple from a quick google search:
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes” Deuteronomy 20:10-17
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you. When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them. Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters. They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)
IS appears to be a political movement building a pseudo state in a lawless part of the world. And it is this which "inspires" misguided and disenfranchised individuals to back it against western targets.
I don't know much about IS but I have a feeling we will find out a lot more in the years to come. Ideally the west will back Turkey and other neighbouring countries to sort this out but we don't live in an ideal world.
I think it's clear that our government have been terrified of attacking Islamic sensibilities as they rightly believe that many of it's followers will react violently. Combined with the additional fear of being called racist and you have a recipe for inaction that we see today. By all means you can live in denial but I'm really worried about the next big attack being in London and also what will happen in response.
Uk ?----------------7/7 etc
USA ?--------------9/11
Thailand ? ----- fighting on the border for 30 years
Malaysia ? ---- see above
China ?-----the Wega (sic) issue
Russia ?-----Chechnia
Indonesia-----Bali
Africa ?------200 kids kidnapped----hundreds dead in Embassy bombings--genocide of Christians in Dofha.
Indian ?---Mombi
Pakistan ?-----200 school kids dead
Middle East ?-----the genocide of Christians etc etc etc etc
of course its not all Muslims but for feck sack the "religion of peace" thats just utter bollox
Every time something like this happens, someone like you posts a comment about Muslims not condemning it and are then referred to links showing that they are.
Deuteronomy 17.
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
The 'religion of peace' bit gets trotted out sarcastically very regularly as it is a pretty nice sound bite to say between tuts - but not many religions are 100% peaceful. Not Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or even Buddhism.
When I think of any religion, I generally think the same thing and it's not massively complimentary.
What I would say is, I would put a decent wedge on there being many times more kind acts carried out in the name of religion day to day that horrific ones. Barely ever makes the news though. Sad times.
The worst are the people who say 'they're not doing it in the name of Islam'
they are.
Today they were reportedly screaming 'the prophet has been avenged'
When they murdered Lee Rigby they were screaming 'Allah Akbar' or whatever it is.
It is 100% religiously motivated
As @kentaddick said, this sort of reaction, understandable as it is, is exactly what these people want. They hate the idea that people in a Dutch town nip across to Belgium for a good lunch and would like nothing better than to create huge traffic jams which stop them from doing so. And of course these scumbags will work out how to avoid being exposed to such checks, while ordinary people find their lives disrupted.
What exactly have you done about the fruit cake Christians blowing up aborition clinics in America or the countless people murdered at the hands of Christians across Africa?
Education is the solution to this problem and getting rid of any religious schools in the UK is, in my opinion, the first step towards stopping these 'home grown' attacks.