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and now in paris

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    edited January 2015
    Leuth said:

    People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".

    That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others

    yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
    The key difference is that Christianity has had an enlightenment, where the bibles are no longer taken literally, Islam has not, so Islamic culture is still stuck in the 7th Century, which is where most of the legitimisation of the barbarism stems from.
    Uboat said:

    Leuth said:

    People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".

    That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others

    yeah and the bible has plenty similar
    Any examples?
    There are loads, just read the Old Testament, it's a lot less lovey dovey than the New Testament.

    Huskaris said:

    Please remember that the vast, vast majority of victims of Islamic fundamentalism in 2014, have themselves been Muslim.

    Makes it even worse then that the so called moderate Islam stills does nothing to look after its own

    Agreed.
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    People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".

    That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others

    I could quote similar passages from the bible though, I fail to see your point.

    Yes these old texts have religious hatred in them. They were written at a different time and I would like to think humanity has developed and improved since then. There are nutcases out there who abuse texts such as these for their own benefit. If you think these acts of extremism are committed for anything other than the personal gain of those who spout it please explain. This isn't about religion, this is about some prat committing violent crimes for the benefit of some leader they will never meet under the auspices of "Islam".
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    It's very easy to pick out texts (which have various translations) to support anti religious arguments for all religions, why does every terrorist attack need to turn into a discriminatory debate?

    Give the victims and their families compassion and heart felt condolences, catch the bastards that are responsible and get justice, do your best to be vigilant and report any suspicious extremist behaviour and leave innocent people to live their lives. Don't use people's deaths as an excuse to attack verbally or otherwise whole religious groups.
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    10,000 /50,000 marched re the wars in Iraq etc 40,000 went to a post ramadan festival in Birmingham--------------why not have a march with numbers in excess of those "not in my name".

    Individuals not standing up to loons re their own safety i fully understand ----but together in makes a huge statement.

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    Huskaris said:

    Please remember that the vast, vast majority of victims of Islamic fundamentalism in 2014, have themselves been Muslim.

    Makes it even worse then that the so called moderate Islam stills does nothing to look after its own

    What do you think they can do to stop it?
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    We have been traveling in and out of major European cities over the last 4 weeks, the most shocking thing for me was how freely i could drive a Van/luton Lorry from here through all these cities without any checks on who i am or what i am carrying, it wasnt until i returned to the uk was any checks carried out, if these people wish to do these attacks they can quite freely all the time you can pass through europe without being checked

    That would be as a result of the 30 year "troubles" in Northern Ireland. A lot of security and intelligence techniques were developed during that time. As someone pointed out many plots have been foiled over here.

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    But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?

    Muslims do this because you have people like anjem choudrey preaching hate against infidels and using passages like the one provided by cafcnick to spread the word of the prophet to enable their passage into 'paradise'.

    I agree it's not all Muslims and it is the minority but people who deny that there's a problem within the religion of Islam are quite frankly deluded.
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    We have been traveling in and out of major European cities over the last 4 weeks, the most shocking thing for me was how freely i could drive a Van/luton Lorry from here through all these cities without any checks on who i am or what i am carrying, it wasnt until i returned to the uk was any checks carried out, if these people wish to do these attacks they can quite freely all the time you can pass through europe without being checked

    Oh come on. You can also travel unchecked from Leeds to London with a bomb, remember?
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    You can't keep snakes in your backyard and only expect them to bite your neighbours.
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    This is going to happen in London soon. Appeasement of radical Islam has to stop.
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    But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?

    Yes, remember the crazy Scandinavian man? The IRA...how many have they killed?
    Not to mention American fundamentalists on their own soil. Let's go down the road of 'all Christians are good' because they're not.
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    When some says Islam, what do you honestly think of?......peace or death/destruction/bombs/war?

    I dont think that of any other religion.
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    Terrible news from Paris, But surely the Magazine was the number one target? firebombed 3 years ago.

    In centre Of London Every street has a camera. How can a Car which two armed men get into, disappear in the centre of Paris?

    This is an attack on all our freedoms.

    Shocking day for everyone who believes in free speech.

    Loving thoughts to Family and friends of this outrage.

    But those that see cameras as an invasion of civil rights will probably still maintain that stance.
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    Terrible news from Paris, But surely the Magazine was the number one target? firebombed 3 years ago.

    In centre Of London Every street has a camera. How can a Car which two armed men get into, disappear in the centre of Paris?

    This is an attack on all our freedoms.

    Shocking day for everyone who believes in free speech.

    Loving thoughts to Family and friends of this outrage.

    But those that see cameras as an invasion of civil rights will probably still maintain that stance.
    Don't see the issue with CCTV. If you're not doing anything wrong it shouldn't bother you.
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    But is it repetitive over years and years. Wasn't the IRA politically motivated as opposed to religiously?

    Anyone who intends or carries out acts of terror on the innocent public in the name of religion deserves slaughtering. Most of the people carrying out these attacks are Muslims. I feel sorry for moderate Muslims as their name is being tarred with the same brush but at the same time these attacks are becoming more and more frequent from Muslims and you can't help but feel wary of potential attacks in the future.
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    But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?

    Yes, remember the crazy Scandinavian man? The IRA...how many have they killed?
    Not to mention American fundamentalists on their own soil. Let's go down the road of 'all Christians are good' because they're not.
    And of course http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo

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    When some says Islam, what do you honestly think of?......peace or death/destruction/bombs/war?

    I dont think that of any other religion.

    Perhaps you should have paid more attention during history class.
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    Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too.
    Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example.
    Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.
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    But do you see Christians carrying out attacks like this in the name of their religion?

    Muslims do this because you have people like anjem choudrey preaching hate against infidels and using passages like the one provided by cafcnick to spread the word of the prophet to enable their passage into 'paradise'.

    I agree it's not all Muslims and it is the minority but people who deny that there's a problem within the religion of Islam are quite frankly deluded.

    Anders Behring Breivik
    Scott Philip Roeder
    Lord's Resistance Army
    Eric Rudolph
    Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre
    Army of God
    James Charles Kopp
    John C. Salvi
    KKK
    Have a look in any African country as well.
    Kkk wasn't in the name of religion was it?
    As I said anyone carrying out these attacks in the name of religion need slaughtering, no matter what religion they follow.

    Also as I say, is/was it as frequent as Islamic extremists
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    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."
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    Uboat said:

    Lots of common sense on here, but some very odd remarks too.
    Still waiting for an example from the bible of a similar verse to the one quoted from the quran. Saying, 'There are loads of examples ' isn't the same as giving an example.
    Yes, there is a problem within Islam - do denying it, but people seem to be wanting to blame Islam as a whole, which is like saying it's football's fault that hooliganism exists.

    If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

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    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

    I don't know who said that and to be honest with you I can point you in the direction if the second sentence in my above post.
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    Leuth said:

    People who think that nothing in the Qur'an encourages this are burying their heads in the sand. It is written in there, plain to see.

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement".

    That verse is actually quite tame in comparison to others

    yeah and the bible has plenty similar, point being that virtually all ancient religious texts are barbaric when read as literal didacticism rather than historical artefact or spiritual enquiry
    The difference being that the Bible has adapted, changed with the times. Mohammed stated that the Quoran must never be changed,ever, and whosoever does, will lose their head. It's the same now as it was originally. That's why we have these extreme interpretations, and they are just following Mohammed's writings. My wife is Muslim BTW.
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    Uboat said:

    Huskaris said:

    Please remember that the vast, vast majority of victims of Islamic fundamentalism in 2014, have themselves been Muslim.

    Makes it even worse then that the so called moderate Islam stills does nothing to look after its own

    Serious question - what do you want them to do?
    Something what happens here when the far right march or protest, people stand up to them.

    Surely the moderates could stand up and be counted be more pro active within their own communities, promote peace, promote harmony, promote that anything other than Islam is not evil.



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    edited January 2015

    "I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

    I don't know who said that and to be honest with you I can point you in the direction if the second sentence in my above post.
    It's a quote from the peace loving bible, which another poster had requested.

    It depends what time scale you're talking about, the last 10 years? Probably not. The last 2,000 - almost certainly.

    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not a defender of Islam, I believe all religion to be equally dangerous, if it was up to me I'd have a way with the lot.
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