But anyone who disagrees that the killing of people in the manor in which we witnessed is anything other than disgusting and totally unacceptable are not really people of a civilised society and there for shouldn't have the freedom of that view as it means they are capable of doing those same crimes imo
It isn't you're right to decide what people should believe. Propaganda of the deed sustains longer through oppression of free speech. That difference from the word and deed is absolute both morally and legally. People also have a responsibility both morally and legally for what they say.
Clearly you have no idea on the lessons of history, so take some time and ponder your responsibilities.
As for those who think they should be located and locked down within minutes of being spotted..... Go back to watching CSI and without a trace. Millions of square miles, hundreds of contacts, with huge possiblities.
It looks like they French armed forces have corralled the suspects and are entering the denouement of this horrible story. Let's hope this finishes soon, with no more loss of life. And let's hope the French don't cut a deal that enables the perpetrators to walk away.
this isn't an episode of The Wire
Unlike the UK, France has a more lenient view on the process of hostage negotiations. I suspect if this were in London, it would end very, very quickly and there would be very few survivors; but, as it's in France, there will be pressure to assuage the hostage-takers.
It's moved from a police hunt for murderers to a a hostage situation. If that happened in London, it would be over by now. Thankfully that means it's less likely to happen in London than in France.
But anyone who disagrees that the killing of people in the manor in which we witnessed is anything other than disgusting and totally unacceptable are not really people of a civilised society and there for shouldn't have the freedom of that view as it means they are capable of doing those same crimes imo
"I believe in free speech as long as it's restricted speech"
The Gunman in the kosher grocery in Paris according to the BBC has said that he won't release the hostages there until the siege against the other 2 terrorists is lifted.
The Gunman in the kosher grocery in Paris according to the BBC has said that he won't release the hostages there until the siege against the other 2 terrorists is lifted.
All for what, some stupid prophet who didn't exist. Wtf
Careful, beliefs are beliefs whether you believe in them yourself or not. These men are not serving the Prophet Mohammed, they are looking for any reason to incite and cause violence.
All for what, some stupid prophet who didn't exist. Wtf
It is comments like that which cause more harm than good. There is enough hate and lack of respect of peoples beliefs going on without adding to it. The key issue is that we all need to be able to live together.
I am not a muslim, but a muslim on this board would find the word stupid prophet very offensive. As Dazzler said, these men are pure evil and not serving anyone.
EDIT - And seeing as this current mess started with some nutters taking offence to how said prophet was depicted, I would rather we dont have any messages like this on a board we are all members on thanks a lot!
The Gunman in the kosher grocery in Paris according to the BBC has said that he won't release the hostages there until the siege against the other 2 terrorists is lifted.
"At least two dead..." apparently.
:-(
Also just heard Jeremy Vine stating that there ' might ' ( not confirmed reports ) be women and children among the 5 that are being held hostage.
Easy game to play but then I'm an atheist so a plague on both their houses
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Henry All above quotations taken from the Old Testament, removed from New Testament. Which proves my earlier point that whereas the Bible has adapted to the times, the Koran has not, and must never be changed. Therein lies the problem. For the record I'd like to see every religion wiped off the face of the earth. If I want to follow my God I'll do it in private as should everyone IMO. If everyone did the same the world would be a far better place.
My fear is that this is more organised and calculated than we had anticipated. A rise in far right thinking amongst French voters only serves to strengthen militant Islam. It creates a "them and us" situation between ordinary French Muslims and those other French citizens which increases tension and becomes a recruiting tool for militant Islam which.
It's a vicious cycle. Senseless acts of violence by militant Islam cause outrage and rises in Islamophobia. This rise causes ordinary Muslims to turn their backs on Western democracy, multiculturalism and liberal society and toward darker forces. Throughout history we have seen people, no matter what religion, race or nationality turn towards malevolent figures or organisations when they no longer feel a sense of belonging. I believe it is in our human nature to feel as though we belong to something bigger than us, something physical not supernatural. The French people have to ensure that ordinary Muslims are no ostracised from French society following this, and do not push them towards these evil entities.
From what I have seen ordinary Muslims have been condemning these atrocities, their responses have been imminent and credible. People have been questioning why ordinary Muslims do not organise rallies, or marches to protest this. While these things may help those small groups of people who are unable to see the difference between militant Islam and ordinary Muslims, I don't see why they should have to. I believe they are in no more associated to the scum that have committed these attacks than I am.
Henry All above quotations taken from the Old Testament, removed from New Testament. Which proves my earlier point that whereas the Bible has adapted to the times, the Koran has not, and must never be changed. Therein lies the problem. For the record I'd like to see every religion wiped off the face of the earth. If I want to follow my God I'll do it in private as should everyone IMO. If everyone did the same the world would be a far better place.
The Bible is made up of the Old (BC) and New (AD) Testaments - the New didn't replace the Old.
All for what, some stupid prophet who didn't exist. Wtf
It is comments like that which cause more harm than good. There is enough hate and lack of respect of peoples beliefs going on without adding to it. The key issue is that we all need to be able to live together.
I am not a muslim, but a muslim on this board would find the word stupid prophet very offensive. As Dazzler said, these men are pure evil and not serving anyone.
EDIT - And seeing as this current mess started with some nutters taking offence to how said prophet was depicted, I would rather we dont have any messages like this on a board we are all members on thanks a lot!
Sorry but the whole thing is just annoying me now. How many more people are doing to die in Paris this week because of these total arseholes.
Everyone knows the cartoonist did nothing wrong. Their prophet doesn't deserve any special treatment with regards to mockery. People shouldn't be careful not to mock him but treat him as they would treat anything else.
Comments
We have stopped many more of those style attacks
But Mumbai was the start of this new way
Clearly you have no idea on the lessons of history, so take some time and ponder your responsibilities.
As for those who think they should be located and locked down within minutes of being spotted..... Go back to watching CSI and without a trace. Millions of square miles, hundreds of contacts, with huge possiblities.
It's moved from a police hunt for murderers to a a hostage situation. If that happened in London, it would be over by now. Thankfully that means it's less likely to happen in London than in France.
:-(
I am not a muslim, but a muslim on this board would find the word stupid prophet very offensive. As Dazzler said, these men are pure evil and not serving anyone.
EDIT - And seeing as this current mess started with some nutters taking offence to how said prophet was depicted, I would rather we dont have any messages like this on a board we are all members on thanks a lot!
' might ' ( not confirmed reports ) be women and children among the 5 that are being held hostage.
This makes my stomach turn. Just unbelievable
All above quotations taken from the Old Testament, removed from New Testament. Which proves my earlier point that whereas the Bible has adapted to the times, the Koran has not, and must never be changed. Therein lies the problem.
For the record I'd like to see every religion wiped off the face of the earth. If I want to follow my God I'll do it in private as should everyone IMO. If everyone did the same the world would be a far better place.
Insulting their religion is not exactly going to help is it.
It's a vicious cycle. Senseless acts of violence by militant Islam cause outrage and rises in Islamophobia. This rise causes ordinary Muslims to turn their backs on Western democracy, multiculturalism and liberal society and toward darker forces. Throughout history we have seen people, no matter what religion, race or nationality turn towards malevolent figures or organisations when they no longer feel a sense of belonging. I believe it is in our human nature to feel as though we belong to something bigger than us, something physical not supernatural. The French people have to ensure that ordinary Muslims are no ostracised from French society following this, and do not push them towards these evil entities.
From what I have seen ordinary Muslims have been condemning these atrocities, their responses have been imminent and credible. People have been questioning why ordinary Muslims do not organise rallies, or marches to protest this. While these things may help those small groups of people who are unable to see the difference between militant Islam and ordinary Muslims, I don't see why they should have to. I believe they are in no more associated to the scum that have committed these attacks than I am.
Everyone knows the cartoonist did nothing wrong. Their prophet doesn't deserve any special treatment with regards to mockery. People shouldn't be careful not to mock him but treat him as they would treat anything else.
Now I'm rambling