I see protests in Paris and London all in the name of freedom of speech and freedom of the press, on here we see the same but where were those voices when some of our number were imprisoned for singing a song on a train? Where are the protests about the continued detention in the embassy of Ecuador of Julian Assange. Jius sui Julian, Ich bin Assange?
The duplicity of our leaders sticks in ones throat at time like these, freedom of speech and the right to offend died long ago with barely a whimper, it's time people awoke to that fact.
Assange isn't being "detained" anywhere. He's hiding out in the embassy because he's too gutless to face justice for his alleged sexual misdemeanours. (And now we're nearly at crossover point with the Ched Evans thread. Whoopee.)
It's plainly obvious to anyone with a brain that terrorism isn't limited to Islam. It's not hard to find examples of most religions committing atrocities. It's amazing to me that people really think majority of muslims would agree with a terrorist attack/must come out and apologize for it.
These are obvious facts. But it shouldn't get away from the fact that there is a real problem within Islam at the moment.
Jihad is a global phenomenon. Practiced by a minority of Muslims? Obviously. But that's not to say it's not a real problem, nor that it exists in a vacuum separate from everything else.
This should be talked about maturely without implicating all muslims, suggesting the religion is incompatible with the Western world or other such bullshit. But it should still be talked about. It's undoubtedly a real, drastic challenge the Islamic world needs to face up to. And unfortunately it's growing seems to be a growing problem: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30080914
I'm not sure reformation is the right word for a supposed "way forward". The Lutheran reformation was about taking Christianity back to its puritanical roots and that seems to be the same cause of Islamic State / wahaabist Islam.
I see protests in Paris and London all in the name of freedom of speech and freedom of the press, on here we see the same but where were those voices when some of our number were imprisoned for singing a song on a train? Where are the protests about the continued detention in the embassy of Ecuador of Julian Assange. Jius sui Julian, Ich bin Assange?
The duplicity of our leaders sticks in ones throat at time like these, freedom of speech and the right to offend died long ago with barely a whimper, it's time people awoke to that fact.
When you say singing a song, wasn't it a vile, filthy, racist song ?
Assange isn't being "detained" anywhere. He's hiding out in the embassy because he's too gutless to face justice for his alleged sexual misdemeanours. (And now we're nearly at crossover point with the Ched Evans thread. Whoopee.)
Perhaps Ched could sign for the Ecuadorean embassy team
Disgusting RIP to those dead, thoughts with families and friends.
Isis need to be stopped somehow, extremism should somehow be outlawed before the violence, all extremist teachings from Islam, Christianity and everything else including racist extremists groups should be reported and examples made of before people go to this length.
Please do not turn this into another attack on Muslims, 99% of Muslims are good decent people and they want this to stop as much as the rest of us.
Would not go with 99% myslef
Muslims represent only 4.7 per cent of the population in England and Wales, according to the most recent Census, yet one in seven prisoners (14 per cent) in England and Wales is a Muslim, according to the statistics.
In some jails the proportion of Islamic inmates is more than one-third, and in Whitemoor, a Category A prison in Cambridgeshire, it is as high as 43 per cent.
The Muslim prison population has increased from 5,502 (7.7 per cent) in 2002 to 11,729 in 2013 (14 per cent) and is set to continue rising rapidly because of the large numbers of Muslim teenagers in youth jails.
I also want to know WHY THEN, if 99% are "peace loving??" dont the rest of "them" come out and march on our streets, hold banners aloft, burn the effing isis flag, I could go on, and on, and effing on!!.............They are cowards who WILL NOT put a uniform on and fight like men. I fear for my boys and my grandsons!!!! RIP....
What!? I served for 28 years in the Military. Let me tell you, during that time I served alongside Christians, Sikhs, Muslims etc who all put on a British uniform and who were all prepared to "fight like men" in places such as N.Ireland, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc for the sake of Britain. They were that "cowardly" that they were prepared to do such!! The cowards!!!!
"The Lutheran reformation was about taking Christianity back to its puritanical roots and that seems to be the same cause of Islamic State / wahaabist Islam."
Absolutely no comparison.
Wahabi is just another interpretation of Islam by the scholars to uphold their particular political objectives, it does not confer the authority of any Muslim to interpret the Koran from writings in his native language. Few Muslims can read Arabic and know what the Koran actually says rather than what they are told it says.
The objective of the reformers was to allow ordinary citizens to read and interpret the Bible in its original form for themselves in English, not the interpretation of the Latin text imposed by the Church to uphold their hold on power. William Tyndale was hung then burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. Wind forward nearly 500 years and Salman Rushdie is in a comparable position to Tyndale for putting a different slant on the life of the Prophet than that portrayed by the Koran. That's the mindset we are dealing with. If control of what you are allowed to think being in the hands of religious leaders is not a root cause of the problem, I don't know what is.
I see protests in Paris and London all in the name of freedom of speech and freedom of the press, on here we see the same but where were those voices when some of our number were imprisoned for singing a song on a train? Where are the protests about the continued detention in the embassy of Ecuador of Julian Assange. Jius sui Julian, Ich bin Assange?
The duplicity of our leaders sticks in ones throat at time like these, freedom of speech and the right to offend died long ago with barely a whimper, it's time people awoke to that fact.
Sorry but....what the hell are you on?
Is this a completely (bad) joke of a comment or are you seriously referring to those racist vile creatures from the train as part of "our number" as if any self respecting charlton fan would want to be associated with racists? Are you also going an insane step further and suggesting that we should have protested their sentence??
I hope you are on a wind up here and not serious as its one of the most absurd things I've read on here. #kickitout
"The Lutheran reformation was about taking Christianity back to its puritanical roots and that seems to be the same cause of Islamic State / wahaabist Islam."
Absolutely no comparison.
Wahabi is just another interpretation of Islam by the scholars to uphold their particular political objectives, it does not confer the authority of any Muslim to interpret the Koran from writings in his native language. Few Muslims can read Arabic and know what the Koran actually says rather than what they are told it says.
The objective of the reformers was to allow ordinary citizens to read and interpret the Bible in its original form for themselves in English, not the interpretation of the Latin text imposed by the Church to uphold their hold on power. William Tyndale was hung then burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. Wind forward nearly 500 years and Salman Rushdie is in a comparable position to Tyndale for putting a different slant on the life of the Prophet than that portrayed by the Koran. That's the mindset we are dealing with. If control of what you are allowed to think being in the hands of religious leaders is not a root cause of the problem, I don't know what is.
You're right mine is a simplified/clumsy comparison. The overall point I was making is the same as yours.
Why is terrorism integral to Islam? Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Why does Islam condone the slaughter women and children? Bukhari Hadith (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They are from them." Why does Islam need to conquer the “evil moderates” of the Levant (ie Jordan etc)? Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?" Why does Islam take no prisoners? "Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land." Why is the halal certification tax so important to Islam? Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Why does Islam kill without conscience? Tabari Hadith 9:69 Mohammed: "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" Why does Islam abide with us? Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce slaughter." Why must Islam destroy cities it conquers? Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Why is martyrdom and reward a part of Islam? Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. Why are those who reject Islam damned forever? Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Why does Islam condone fighting in foreign wars? Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." Why is the sword so important to Islam? Bukhari Hadith (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'." Why are killed captives and ransom demands an important part of an Islamic war? Ibn Hadith, Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammed, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah still desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
We can start off by not actually invading countries, holding the state of israel accountable for crimes against the palestinian people rather than shrugging our shoulders and throwing them more money. Essentially remove any reason for a young british muslim to take up arms against their own country. This war against terrorism is the result of decades of shoddy foreign policy towards the middle east. And we're now paying the price.
You really don't get the mindset do you. None of these things would make any difference. These guys want you to be a Muslim (and not just any old Muslim, their specific brand of Sunni Muslim) or they want you dead.
Just remember, for every 12 French journalists and cops killed by radical Islamists, there are thousands of (anti-Israel, non-invading) shias & insufficiently Sunni Kurds being killed by radical Islamists - including British ones.
You have to question why it is usually terror attacks against the Western world. It isn't just because we are predominantly non-Muslim. You also have to question why it is on the whole young men doing this. It of course isn't the only reason for what is going on but we (the Western world) are very quick to deny any blame in this but our leaders and multinationals certainly should have a lot more to answer for.
Your idea of terror attacks must be completely different from mine then. They occur daily in places like Baghdad and Basra - muslim against muslim.
In the last month, there have been major attacks in Cameroon, Mogadishu in Somalia, Madaen and Al-Ahbar in Iraq, Gombe and Gumsuri in Nigeria, Syria, Yemen and Pakistan.
None of which I'd deem to be in the 'Western World'.
That point has already been picked up on and I've responded to it.
When i was in my early twenties (a while ago) i worked with a Hindu guy who Thought the Britsh goverment was crazy for allowing so many muslims into the country when their views were the polar opposite of the indigenous population. He painted a picture similar to the IRA threat of the 70's. i thought he was just bias against Muslims, but the horror stories have unfolded before our eyes here and in Europe. That why the 99% of decent Muslims must keep condemning the Few, Or else the silence will be deafening. Being told about the Enemy within has always resonated with me ever since.
A Hindu not liking a Muslim shocker. Next you'll be telling me Jewish people aren't fond of them either.
If it wasn't for AFK asking that this very interesting and informative thread doesn't descend in to a flagging war, I'd have flagged you for that comment.
Imagine if someone had posted "A Muslim not liking a westerner shocker". I'm sure it would have been flagged more than once, and rightly so.
There's been some truly inspiring debate on this thread. The above is just another generalisation, much like the ones people try and stop being hurled towards the Islamic community.
Not really sure it is that offensive tbh. It's certainly nowhere in the ballpark of calling all Muslims terrorists. Yes it's a generalisation and no it won't be true of all Hindus, but a vast majority do feel that way. You would only have to look at the tensions between India and Pakistan as evidence of this.
All Muslims aren't terrorists and I think anyone who thinks they are is just ridiculous although all Muslims aren't terrorists, it appears that all modern day terrorists are Muslim and that is where a lot of people's issues and concerns with Islam stem from.
One final point that needs to be reinforced is one that has been trotted out countless times on this and other threads - namely people wondering aloud why 'more muslims aren't condemning this type of attack'. Quite apart from it being visibly demonstrated each time that muslim scholars and imams in fact ARE condemning these despicable acts, it's frankly quite insulting to expect people to do this in the name of a tiny percentage of lunatics/arseholes who distort their faith to suit their own ends. Why, for instance, was I not asked to come out and denounce Anders Breivik as 'unrepresentative of Christians' because I was baptised as such?
The best solution to intolerance and hate is to talk. It always has been.
It's not enough for Muslims to condemn murderous terrorists. That merely aligns them with the most basic standards of human decency and should be a given. What moderate Islam (and there is an argument for saying that's an oxymoron) needs to do is say that it is OK for people to publish cartoons of Allah, that apostasy is not a sin, and certainly not a crime punishable by death, that there should be a clear distinction between the role of the secular state and the role of religion (we can talk to them about what that distinction is) and that criticism of their religion is something to be welcomed and responded to, not condemned and banned. In short, Islam needs to modernise. For as long as mainstream muslims say that what what a satirical magazine does is a sin against God, there will be nutters ready to avenge that sin.
Why is terrorism integral to Islam? Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Why does Islam condone the slaughter women and children? Bukhari Hadith (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They are from them." Why does Islam need to conquer the “evil moderates” of the Levant (ie Jordan etc)? Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?" Why does Islam take no prisoners? "Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land." Why is the halal certification tax so important to Islam? Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Why does Islam kill without conscience? Tabari Hadith 9:69 Mohammed: "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" Why does Islam abide with us? Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce slaughter." Why must Islam destroy cities it conquers? Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Why is martyrdom and reward a part of Islam? Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. Why are those who reject Islam damned forever? Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Why does Islam condone fighting in foreign wars? Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." Why is the sword so important to Islam? Bukhari Hadith (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'." Why are killed captives and ransom demands an important part of an Islamic war? Ibn Hadith, Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammed, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah still desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Earlier in the thread there were quotes from the bible saying basically the same thing. Every ancient religious text uses death as a threat since, well death was everywhere and how else could you grow your religion to people who had nothing and faced death almost every day in some form. There are "Christians" in Africa that use the most evil verses to justify their actions, much like there are "Muslims" who use these parts of the Koran to justify theirs.
Easy game to play but then I'm an atheist so a plague on both their houses
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets 1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
The point isn't what iron age texts, be it the bible or the Qran, say. The point is how those works are interpreted for the modern day and in a modern society. That's where there is a clear distinction between Christianity (for the most part) and Islam. I wouldn't shed a tear if both religions collapsed under the weight of rational argument, but to each their own.
Easy game to play but then I'm an atheist so a plague on both their houses
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
If you want something to do, come round and cut my grass. :-)
Easy game to play but then I'm an atheist so a plague on both their houses
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents 1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
If you want something to do, come round and cut my grass. :-)
Seems that the two suspects have taken hostages and are being chased across paris
Can't begin to imagine what them hostages are feeling right now. For Godness sake let them live. Also I'm not sure if the chase is happening around Paris? Surely Paris would be one of the safest places as a pedestrian to be right now?
Comments
These are obvious facts. But it shouldn't get away from the fact that there is a real problem within Islam at the moment.
Jihad is a global phenomenon. Practiced by a minority of Muslims? Obviously. But that's not to say it's not a real problem, nor that it exists in a vacuum separate from everything else.
This should be talked about maturely without implicating all muslims, suggesting the religion is incompatible with the Western world or other such bullshit. But it should still be talked about. It's undoubtedly a real, drastic challenge the Islamic world needs to face up to. And unfortunately it's growing seems to be a growing problem: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-30080914
I'm not sure reformation is the right word for a supposed "way forward". The Lutheran reformation was about taking Christianity back to its puritanical roots and that seems to be the same cause of Islamic State / wahaabist Islam.
Nick Cohen's summation of the whole issue last night got it spot on: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-the-truths-that-ought-to-be-self-evident-but-still-arent/
This is good too: http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/paris-killings-require-more-than-mere-condemnation#full
That's the king of gifs
Absolutely no comparison.
Wahabi is just another interpretation of Islam by the scholars to uphold their particular political objectives, it does not confer the authority of any Muslim to interpret the Koran from writings in his native language. Few Muslims can read Arabic and know what the Koran actually says rather than what they are told it says.
The objective of the reformers was to allow ordinary citizens to read and interpret the Bible in its original form for themselves in English, not the interpretation of the Latin text imposed by the Church to uphold their hold on power. William Tyndale was hung then burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. Wind forward nearly 500 years and Salman Rushdie is in a comparable position to Tyndale for putting a different slant on the life of the Prophet than that portrayed by the Koran. That's the mindset we are dealing with. If control of what you are allowed to think being in the hands of religious leaders is not a root cause of the problem, I don't know what is.
Is this a completely (bad) joke of a comment or are you seriously referring to those racist vile creatures from the train as part of "our number" as if any self respecting charlton fan would want to be associated with racists? Are you also going an insane step further and suggesting that we should have protested their sentence??
I hope you are on a wind up here and not serious as its one of the most absurd things I've read on here. #kickitout
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Why does Islam condone the slaughter women and children?
Bukhari Hadith (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They are from them."
Why does Islam need to conquer the “evil moderates” of the Levant (ie Jordan etc)?
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Why does Islam take no prisoners?
"Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land."
Why is the halal certification tax so important to Islam?
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Why does Islam kill without conscience?
Tabari Hadith 9:69 Mohammed: "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"
Why does Islam abide with us?
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a fierce slaughter."
Why must Islam destroy cities it conquers?
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Why is martyrdom and reward a part of Islam?
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
Why are those who reject Islam damned forever?
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Why does Islam condone fighting in foreign wars?
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."
Why is the sword so important to Islam?
Bukhari Hadith (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."
Why are killed captives and ransom demands an important part of an Islamic war?
Ibn Hadith, Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammed, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah still desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
KoranBibleEasy game to play but then I'm an atheist so a plague on both their houses
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
As for the Charlton "fans" jailed for singing a song albeit a racist one, a big fine would have been sufficient punishment.
My wife knows everything.
2 people seriously injured in a shoot out prior to hostages being taken