The questions weren't the problem, they were pressing and for the most part toned correctly. The problem was the lack of substance in the strategy or humility to face up to past mistakes.
The first answer set the tone:
(Paraphrasing): Why do you think the fans are unhappy? (Paraphrased answer from RM): I know Middlesborogh well. They have Keith Downing (guessing he meant Stuart) on Premiership Money. As a business we won't eat money.
What???
Fair play to Rikofold for telling him he hadn't answered the question but it was obvious from then on it was a PR exercise and nothing else.
As for the club shop employee... Going by the reaction on Twitter he should take the day off on the 28th.
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
One of the best posts I have seen on here for some time and echo's my thought's entirely.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
One of the best posts I have seen on here for some time and echo's my thought's entirely.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
Tbf not one person on here would be any different in her postition last night,
yes because as a CEO I would behave very differently
Isn't that the point though dissecting her body language and bravado as arrogance and ignorance just fueling a fire storm that is barely a flame, she is under attack she knew that last night anyone on here who can say that they would welcome and encourage criticism and personal attacks on situations that they have had to manage is a liar,
Add to that being called a Belgian this and Belgian bitch that, scum I could go on on mass by grown men only days before what did people expect,
I won't try to get people to see that until you all calm down your own anger and miss interpretation / interpretation of what you wish to see and hear, you will not gain the level of support you think you have or will get,
There's ways and means all being lost here, but there are many many fans who just dont agree
My cafc history stands me in enough stead to quantify that stance, I stopped coming before this season it was not just a time based decision it was that there are so many I do not find any common ground with within the stand I wish to be in, on here as a forum and as a whole that I no longer recognise as cafc fans that it became tedious, boring and irritating it made me angry disappointed and I wasn't prepared to bring my daughter to it, she loved the lib, she loved being within the group I was with, but it became so apparent that there is no patience for players, Mgrs etc that it could ruin a sat before it reached 90 mins,
I too will remain from here on in watching silently and watch you all fester in anger and some of you consume your own head in an ego contest greater than I have ever seen, the year end life awards for achievements this season I can't wait to see who wins the most outraged and angry fan above all others award
I don't buy the protest was so disgraceful,yes Belgian songs were uncalled for and few hand gestures but all in all it was a standard passionate protest. Nothing worst than you would hear in the stands...
Im only 28 mins in, and Richard Murray is just such an old pro at this game. I genuinely don't think this session would have got this far without him, she seems like a fish out of water. Very cleverly crafted, knowing how not to answer the question, bringing in JJ to deflect the debate / feel of a session etc True pro
Tbf not one person on here would be any different in her postition last night,
yes because as a CEO I would behave very differently
Isn't that the point though dissecting her body language and bravado as arrogance and ignorance just fueling a fire storm that is barely a flame, she is under attack she knew that last night anyone on here who can say that they would welcome and encourage criticism and personal attacks on situations that they have had to manage is a liar,
Add to that being called a Belgian this and Belgian bitch that, scum I could go on on mass by grown men only days before what did people expect,
I won't try to get people to see that until you all calm down your own anger and miss interpretation / interpretation of what you wish to see and hear, you will not gain the level of support you think you have or will get,
There's ways and means all being lost here, but there are many many fans who just dont agree
My cafc history stands me in enough stead to quantify that stance, I stopped coming before this season it was not just a time based decision it was that there are so many I do not find any common ground with within the stand I wish to be in, on here as a forum and as a whole that I no longer recognise as cafc fans that it became tedious, boring and irritating it made me angry disappointed and I wasn't prepared to bring my daughter to it, she loved the lib, she loved being within the group I was with, but it became so apparent that there is no patience for players, Mgrs etc that it could ruin a sat before it reached 90 mins,
I too will remain from here on in watching silently and watch you all fester in anger and some of you consume your own head in an ego contest greater than I have ever seen, the year end life awards for achievements this season I can't wait to see who wins the most outraged and angry fan above all others award
Agree with everything mate, only difference, is I still go, I know work wise things have changed for you but totally agree with your post.
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
Have just watched the video and was surprised, given the media tweets etc, that it ran in a very respectful, professional way. I was very impressed by the fans/reps questions, comments and conduct. I believe Katrien would have been too. i imagine she was expecting to be interupted and abused.
What happens now is going to be pivotal in the club's future IMO, both from the CEO/owners point of view as well as the fans.
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
Have just watched the video and was surprised, given the media tweets etc, that it ran in a very respectful, professional way. I was very impressed by the fans/reps questions, comments and conduct. I believe Katrien would have been too. i imagine she was expecting to be interupted and abused.
What happens now is going to be pivotal in the club's future IMO, both from the CEO/owners point of view as well as the fans.
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
For me, no. Selected tweets without the context served to fire up the hostility imo. Having seen the video I can now think about it a bit more rationally.
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
The way I saw it from the tweets was that Katrien was just coming out with the same old blah blah blah we've heard since they took over. After watching the video, I still feel the same. I think the fans involved asked some important questions and did their best within the circumstances, but it seems to me the meeting was a complete waste of time.
In terms of your particular input, whilst many have made a lot of your apology, I actually liked most of what you had to say but I was very disappointed that Meire completely ignored the point you made and nobody pressed her for a response.
It's sad though Steve tbh, yes I Need to give 100% to my business right now and that makes Saturdays very much a family day, but what better family bond was there than footie, I take scarlett to watch Enfield now If we do find ourselves at home at 3pm on a sat and she loves it bless her
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
No. Noting like it.
I thought Murray and Meire handled it very well. The chap on the far right sounds like he knows his stuff and Steve Avory was impressive with the few sentences he contributed.
I still feel that the underlying message was that nothing is going to change. The presentation looked like a justification of where they have come from and are now and there was nothing to suggest anything will get better except that they will invite more people in, more often, to tell them the same as they told us tonight.
Target 20k was interesting but without those than were involved with T10k and then T40k there is no reason to assume they will stop the numbers from dropping off.
In truth I think the ticket sales in the summer were saved by the great run we went on after Luzon came in. Anything less than another one of those and they could justify calling it Target 10k again.
I thought that the chap from the Trust spoke for too long and I'm not sure he asked many questions. Sure he gave the impression that he is not in their pocket, but I thought there was too much jargon and by talking for so long he answered the questions he looked like he was setting up to ask. I also thought it was quite embarrassing how he asked KM who was Chairing the meeting and then went on to say how he had asked for someone else to do it only for him to be asked, shortly afterwards, if he thought he was chairing the meeting.
He gave the impression, accentuated by his summing up of the meeting, that he was, indeed, speaking for all the fans in the room. Maybe that was the plan, and maybe no one else would have asked the questions he did ask had he not done it, but I didn't feel that there was any real demonstration of dissatisfaction in the room.
I suspect that the club arranged the meeting and released the video for exactly the atmosphere that I sensed from the room. Those running the club haven't got there by pure luck have they? Like them or loath them they do have some experience in PR and seem to have done a good job. A decent run of results and two decent signings in January and I predict this 'protest' will be largely forgotten.
However, in answer to your question Seth, the Tweets looked like they came from a completely different meeting.
I don't know who you are so don't know what question you asked so I can't comment on that, sorry.
With the greatest respect NLA, your above post suggests that at present your emotional attachment to Charlton has dwindled and, although you give other reasons for no longer attending, I'd wager that if you were being entertained by what was happening on the pitch at the time, those things would not have been as noticeable and you might still be going. Also poor performance on the pitch (and off it) breeds negativity in the stands which seemed to contribute to your absence.
It's all very well saying we shouldn't get angry and I massively agree on the personal insults and Belgian stuff as it is unacceptable but I have found most people's criticisms to be constructive but you admit that this is on a subject from which you are currently detached. You may argue that this gives you objectivity but I would argue that I have the right to be angry because we are being consistently lied to with no light at the end of the tunnel and my weekends are being ruined (again!).
If like many others have done, I decide that enough is enough, I'm sure I'll be able to be calmer and reflective but that ain't going to happen anytime soon so I'll be there at the next game and I'll be protesting beforehand or whenever it is arranged.
Also she just comes across as a politician, aren't all politicians from a law background anyway? Says a lot but actually says nothing of any substance, just covering her own arse and taking no responsibility. Thought the questioning was decent but maybe she should have been challenged a bit stronger, although realise very easy for me to say sitting here behind my laptop.
Just skim watched. So many comments to make but I thought @rikofold and @seth plum were brilliant last night along especially with John C from East Kent and Ian W. And a few others.
Seth your second speech was great. Why I reported it so crap will haunt me. I was crap at the details but you guys did great.
No we didn't snarl and shout. Everyone just put their point across. I think that's better than screaming.
I'm sure loads of you will feel different. But your turn next time ?
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
No. Everyone else has covered why not. @AFKABartram warned me not to fall out with the press. So I'll try to be fair, and acknowledge that many of the questions weren't asked in a succinct way, so it was difficult to tweet them.
Been having this discussion with Paul Green (ex NS) on Twitter (ironically). earlier he wrote
Making online stories from tweets is standard journalism practice in 2015. All papers do it, especially with football topics.
But then was it reasonable for the press to assume you could tweet a meeting like this in the way that you can tweet a match?
But now he has come back with this:
Maybe Twitter not the best medium to report entirity of event but looks like only option as quotes embargoed until midday.
So lessons to be learnt all round from last night's thread. By the club, the press, us. Except by AFKA. He saw it all coming. Like the sensible driver on the fog-bound motorway trying to stop the rest of us from hurtling into a pile-up.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
And perhaps those are the kind of things we need to focus on from here? Trying to turn the intangible discontent/ unrest into some tangible areas to challenge and address?
It's been said before - all very well knowing what the strategy is, but what if we don't like it/ believe it is doomed to failure?
Just skim watched. So many comments to make but I thought @rikofold and @seth plum were brilliant last night along especially with John C from East Kent and Ian W. And a few others.
Seth your second speech was great. Why I reported it so crap will haunt me. I was crap at the details but you guys did great.
No we didn't snarl and shout. Everyone just put their point across. I think that's better than screaming.
I'm sure loads of you will feel different. But your turn next time yeh?
Apart from the lad who works in the club shop. Bizarre rant.
Re the next time point, I don't believe there will be another one of these meetings with her as CEO. Her tactic seemed to be if the question was too difficult, don't say anything. However she did do well dealing with Cheesewright. Fair play there.
Comments
The first answer set the tone:
(Paraphrasing): Why do you think the fans are unhappy?
(Paraphrased answer from RM): I know Middlesborogh well. They have Keith Downing (guessing he meant Stuart) on Premiership Money. As a business we won't eat money.
What???
Fair play to Rikofold for telling him he hadn't answered the question but it was obvious from then on it was a PR exercise and nothing else.
As for the club shop employee... Going by the reaction on Twitter he should take the day off on the 28th.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
Add to that being called a Belgian this and Belgian bitch that, scum I could go on on mass by grown men only days before what did people expect,
I won't try to get people to see that until you all calm down your own anger and miss interpretation / interpretation of what you wish to see and hear, you will not gain the level of support you think you have or will get,
There's ways and means all being lost here, but there are many many fans who just dont agree
My cafc history stands me in enough stead to quantify that stance, I stopped coming before this season it was not just a time based decision it was that there are so many I do not find any common ground with within the stand I wish to be in, on here as a forum and as a whole that I no longer recognise as cafc fans that it became tedious, boring and irritating it made me angry disappointed and I wasn't prepared to bring my daughter to it, she loved the lib, she loved being within the group I was with, but it became so apparent that there is no patience for players, Mgrs etc that it could ruin a sat before it reached 90 mins,
I too will remain from here on in watching silently and watch you all fester in anger and some of you consume your own head in an ego contest greater than I have ever seen, the year end life awards for achievements this season I can't wait to see who wins the most outraged and angry fan above all others award
What happens now is going to be pivotal in the club's future IMO, both from the CEO/owners point of view as well as the fans.
Having seen the video I can now think about it a bit more rationally.
In terms of your particular input, whilst many have made a lot of your apology, I actually liked most of what you had to say but I was very disappointed that Meire completely ignored the point you made and nobody pressed her for a response.
I thought Murray and Meire handled it very well. The chap on the far right sounds like he knows his stuff and Steve Avory was impressive with the few sentences he contributed.
I still feel that the underlying message was that nothing is going to change. The presentation looked like a justification of where they have come from and are now and there was nothing to suggest anything will get better except that they will invite more people in, more often, to tell them the same as they told us tonight.
Target 20k was interesting but without those than were involved with T10k and then T40k there is no reason to assume they will stop the numbers from dropping off.
In truth I think the ticket sales in the summer were saved by the great run we went on after Luzon came in. Anything less than another one of those and they could justify calling it Target 10k again.
I thought that the chap from the Trust spoke for too long and I'm not sure he asked many questions. Sure he gave the impression that he is not in their pocket, but I thought there was too much jargon and by talking for so long he answered the questions he looked like he was setting up to ask. I also thought it was quite embarrassing how he asked KM who was Chairing the meeting and then went on to say how he had asked for someone else to do it only for him to be asked, shortly afterwards, if he thought he was chairing the meeting.
He gave the impression, accentuated by his summing up of the meeting, that he was, indeed, speaking for all the fans in the room. Maybe that was the plan, and maybe no one else would have asked the questions he did ask had he not done it, but I didn't feel that there was any real demonstration of dissatisfaction in the room.
I suspect that the club arranged the meeting and released the video for exactly the atmosphere that I sensed from the room. Those running the club haven't got there by pure luck have they? Like them or loath them they do have some experience in PR and seem to have done a good job. A decent run of results and two decent signings in January and I predict this 'protest' will be largely forgotten.
However, in answer to your question Seth, the Tweets looked like they came from a completely different meeting.
I don't know who you are so don't know what question you asked so I can't comment on that, sorry.
It's all very well saying we shouldn't get angry and I massively agree on the personal insults and Belgian stuff as it is unacceptable but I have found most people's criticisms to be constructive but you admit that this is on a subject from which you are currently detached. You may argue that this gives you objectivity but I would argue that I have the right to be angry because we are being consistently lied to with no light at the end of the tunnel and my weekends are being ruined (again!).
If like many others have done, I decide that enough is enough, I'm sure I'll be able to be calmer and reflective but that ain't going to happen anytime soon so I'll be there at the next game and I'll be protesting beforehand or whenever it is arranged.
Just skim watched. So many comments to make but I thought @rikofold and @seth plum were brilliant last night along especially with John C from East Kent and Ian W. And a few others.
Seth your second speech was great. Why I reported it so crap will haunt me. I was crap at the details but you guys did great.
No we didn't snarl and shout. Everyone just put their point across. I think that's better than screaming.
I'm sure loads of you will feel different. But your turn next time ?
- an approx 50% increase in home crowds
- increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
Been having this discussion with Paul Green (ex NS) on Twitter (ironically). earlier he wrote
Making online stories from tweets is standard journalism practice in 2015. All papers do it, especially with football topics.
But then was it reasonable for the press to assume you could tweet a meeting like this in the way that you can tweet a match?
But now he has come back with this:
Maybe Twitter not the best medium to report entirity of event but looks like only option as quotes embargoed until midday.
So lessons to be learnt all round from last night's thread. By the club, the press, us. Except by AFKA. He saw it all coming. Like the sensible driver on the fog-bound motorway trying to stop the rest of us from hurtling into a pile-up.
It's been said before - all very well knowing what the strategy is, but what if we don't like it/ believe it is doomed to failure?
Re the next time point, I don't believe there will be another one of these meetings with her as CEO. Her tactic seemed to be if the question was too difficult, don't say anything. However she did do well dealing with Cheesewright. Fair play there.