No doubt I'll get some hate for this but here goes...
Just finished watching the meeting on YouTube and I have to say KM came out of it much better than I was expecting. She wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and she still has a long way to go, but it was nowhere near as bad as was made out last night.
I thought she answered the majority of questions well and I'm slightly more optimistic about the clubs future.
"I know Middlesbrough pretty well, and they have really pushed the boat out this year. They're about £100 million in debt already but they've said to themselves we're going to give it a real shot. Hence the Keith Downings"
Maybe I imagined it but both Murray and Jackson looked a bit uncomfortable when she accused Powell of being a bitter ex-employee
Which is what she said to me at the VIP meeting and some fans on here question why other fans get irate.
Well hands up I admit it, I get irate when Meire tells bare faced lies.
Mind you, she wouldn't outright call Powell or Dyer liars, because she knows she could get sued and then the truth would come out in court, so a club official told her not to answer !
Chris Powell may or may not be a good manager, but a decent and honest man he is, unlike the people running our club and I'm not saying the previous owners were any better.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
They can't and that is why RD's model is nonsense. The only way to increase crowds and player value is to get into Premier League. The only way to get there is to have a good enough squad and manager and a fair amount of good fortune. There is a significant cost, especially in English leagues, where players (and managers) tend to be more expensive. If RD doesn't invest in the playing squad in an effective way (which means not gambling with a stream of cheap players from unknown places) then we stand virtually no chance of that happening.
From what I have picked up from talking to people within the club there is an acknowledgement amongst, at least, some of the senior staff, that being a championship side costs up to £10m per year to run (not exactly rocket science to work that out). There also seems an expectation that RD is in this for the long haul (at least 5 years and probably longer was the view expressed) and will fund this level of debt. Of course, there is a question where that debt lies. If it is just added to the club whilst he plays at social experiments, then it probably takes us further away from getting into the premier league, especially if the majority of the money is going into capital and social schemes rather than the playing squad.
I don't think the comments expressed to me are based on RD showing his cards to any one, but they do reflect how staff at Charlton are currently seeing things. What has surprised me is that there is still a significant appetite and enthusiasm for trying new schemes and projects and a belief that by continuing to introduce new things will make people be more positive.
There is also seems to be a belief that once we start winning enough games and get out of trouble that the dissatisfaction will disappear. They may be right to some extent on this point.
No doubt I'll get some hate for this but here goes...
Just finished watching the meeting on YouTube and I have to say KM came out of it much better than I was expecting. She wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and she still has a long way to go, but it was nowhere near as bad as was made out last night.
I thought she answered the majority of questions well and I'm slightly more optimistic about the clubs future.
Only time will tell though!
Based on what? The fact she spoke well in a question and answer session in which she had full control of? Looking past individual questions and how she handled them etc. surely it's all about the bigger picture, and the answers she supplied all point towards the facts we know. Priority is to keep bums on seats, not earn them, and sell as many players for as much as possible.
Not hating by the way, just intrigued.
And on a sidenote, RM quite obviously on his phone is a piss take. Lost all respect I had for the man, he's there for his money and his money only.
So am I right in thinking that everytime we hit a bad patch on the playing side we'll sack the manager/head coach. New guy comes in wins a few games they can say things improved then we go on bad run, cycle continues. Baffling strategy. I guess we can only hope at some point we will stumble upon the next Guardiola by luck.
Meh. Just watched it. Plenty of guff. I woke up and there was an in depth discussion going on about wheel chairs. Nothing against that but surely there's a time and a place.
Had a feel of 'same time next year people when we can talk over the same old stuff having not really achieved anything'
KM is a (province of) Limburg peasant girl, who doesn't know how to dress, has greasy hair and strikes me as someone with a degree but no real competence. I wouldn't even hire a as a lawyer if my neighbour was complaining I had to cut a tree or some other BS. She's a bloody disgrace to her country and I hope she falls in love with some handsome (but stupid) Inuit bloke, whom she'll follow to open a B&B somewhere in the outskirts of Anchorage.
Well I think this gets my vote for WTF post of the week.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
She did also refer to increased TV revenue. I wasn't aware a big increase is coming but she was pretty clear on that.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
She did also refer to increased TV revenue. I wasn't aware a big increase is coming but she was pretty clear on that.
Thing is, everyone gets it so 1) there is no competitive advantage and 2) it is likely to flow straight through into the players' pockets. Not sure how useful it is likely to be in reducing the operating loss, therefore.
Just a question: why was so much time spent discussing the Vista lounge? While an important issue in it's own right, surely it was the wrong setting in which to bring it up?
Sorry if this is not appreciated by those involved but on watching of the video there was as much guff from 'our side' as the club's.
there were so many opportunities to jump in and pressurise weak or wayward answers to the few worthwhile question's raised, but this did not seem to be done.
9 minutes of corporate bullshit by PowerPoint (albeit delivered worse than even most apprentices or graduates are capable of)that had several separate invites for questions yet just one of the deliberate plants in the room chose to speak up.
Waste of time as the cherry picked few were clearly incapable of putting the necessary pressure on KM and RM. I'll bet RM had a giggle to himself when he jumped in the car.
Sorry if this is not appreciated by those involved but on watching of the video there was as much guff from 'our side' as the club's.
there were so many opportunities to jump in and pressurise weak or wayward answers to the few worthwhile question's raised, but this did not seem to be done.
9 minutes of corporate bullshit by PowerPoint (albeit delivered worse than even most apprentices or graduates are capable of)that had several separate invites for questions yet just one of the deliberate plants in the room chose to speak up.
Waste of time as the cherry picked few were clearly incapable of putting the necessary pressure on KM and RM. I'll bet RM had a giggle to himself when he jumped in the car.
If you imagine Craig Norris was a "deliberate plant" by the club you're a long way from the truth.
The disconnect is that KM cannot percieve that she has done anything wrong... nothing....
Until that is addressed then its over...
We get the results right on the pitch we will all quieten down... and have a hated CEO and owner...
If the results keep going wrong the hatred will bubble over as we saw on the weekend...
The fact that no one asked "why do you think a 3rd division Belgium manger is the right fit..." actually thinking about it it would have been a waste of time...
They are modern football... they are the new wave...
In truth we lost "our" Charlton years ago.. the last sniff was Powell going...
Did 10 fans really need to ask Katrien the same questions over and over again?
I'm not as angry as most of you. My only criticisms of the board are not giving managers 100% control of transfers and managers not being given enough time.
I think the fans should have grilled the board a bit more on that. 5 managers in such a short space of time is totally unacceptable.
Just finished watching it and I'm really frustrated by some of the waffling that went on considering such dire straights our club are in right now - and that is frustration at our own fans present more than anything.
A lot of the questions were overtalked and just too easy for KM and RM to just sidestep with stock, fluffy answers.
For Christ sake why were people banging on about Valley Express, lounges etc!?
The awkward protest on Saturday (which was about as forceful as a silent fart) and the easy ride given to the board last night just tells me that this fanbase is TOO BLOODY NICE for any real changes to occur.
We are Football fans FFS - show some actual passion and emotion, drop the corporate disguises and as long as it's not insulting - just say what you think! What have we got to lose?
Sorry, but that was a huge opportunity wasted for us to really get some answers or at least point out their errors properly.
I can tell from the first 20 minutes of watching that KM is getting quite angry during some of her responses. Spot on way to respond.............. Richard Murray on the other hand, I like what he had to say. I feel a sense of comfort when he talks, even if he works for the regime
Just finished watching it and I'm really frustrated by some of the waffling that went on considering such dire straights our club are in right now - and that is frustration at our own fans present more than anything.
A lot of the questions were overtalked and just too easy for KM and RM to just sidestep with stock, fluffy answers.
For Christ sake why were people banging on about Valley Express, lounges etc!?
The awkward protest on Saturday (which was about as forceful as a silent fart) and the easy ride given to the board last night just tells me that this fanbase is TOO BLOODY NICE for any real changes to occur.
We are Football fans FFS - show some actual passion and emotion, drop the corporate disguises and as long as it's not insulting - just say what you think! What have we got to lose?
Sorry, but that was a huge opportunity wasted for us to really get some answers or at least point out their errors properly.
I have to agree with @cafctom . I should imagine it was harder to do that on the night as I think the way the meeting was set up lent itself to be more structured. And I get that screaming and shouting isn't necessarily helpful..... But there was some seriously lily-livered questioning. I wish someone had pinned them on the ridiculous appointment of managers with virtually zero pedigree. And on the amount of managers we've had in two years! Also nothing on the decisions to sign players like LePoint. I also wish someone had said 'why have you wheeled out JJ tonight?' There was so much waffle!
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
A fair enough post.
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
One of the best posts I have seen on here for some time and echo's my thought's entirely.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
I take it you are on a wind up with the third paragraph.
It's a difficult balancing act. You can go in all snarly but you get the kind of defensive stuff displayed early on in the meeting. Or you can try to stick to a plan, calmly and politely, trying to relax them so you hopefully get an answer that's less guarded whilst asking questions that are fairly direct.
We aimed for the latter, but for various reasons didn't quite succeed - largely I feel because we never quite wrested the control of our agenda. The latter is why I took the mic back every now and again, to try to get our flow back, but I was very conscious the meeting shouldn't be dominated by one voice. I thought John C did a great job of holding onto the mic and as such his bit probably had the best flow of all of it. We also had to concede we weren't the only people in the room, and the others deserved to participate too. Even the club shop guy, even Syd.
Even so, whilst I know a number of people would have liked us to be more in their faces I do think our approach gave them no excuse not to give straight answers to straight questions and you can judge for yourselves whether they did that. A personal view is that whilst we may have missed some opportunity, that's an accusation that can absolutely be leveled at the club. Presented by a relentlessly calm and respectful group they might have considered it a perfect opportunity to open up a bit, change the nature of the dialogue.
A slight disappointment is that KM apparently expected a harder time, but then in some ways she was no doubt expecting some belligerence and rudeness, and points like the one Craig Norris made so well wouldn't have carried as much weight if the meeting was more tense or we'd been angry.
On the whole I think we got our approach right, we missed some opportunity to put a bit of pressure on, but we didn't miss all. They therefore had the rope with which to hang themselves, and got tangled a few times. We were well prepared, but as I say we never got control of the format and that did hamstring us a bit.
Perhaps an important outcome is that she is in no doubt now that the fan base she's so easily been able to divide can unite and it can be powerful. Just a small example perhaps , but I do wonder whether the greater threat to them lies in the protest or the quieter intelligent response. Both perhaps are needed, and perhaps this is a time for different groups to play to their strengths in different aspects of a common campaign to get the best for our great club.
We'd all need to leave our egos at the door though.
Comments
Just finished watching the meeting on YouTube and I have to say KM came out of it much better than I was expecting. She wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and she still has a long way to go, but it was nowhere near as bad as was made out last night.
I thought she answered the majority of questions well and I'm slightly more optimistic about the clubs future.
Only time will tell though!
Best part of the whole thing.
Well hands up I admit it, I get irate when Meire tells bare faced lies.
Mind you, she wouldn't outright call Powell or Dyer liars, because she knows she could get sued and then the truth would come out in court, so a club official told her not to answer !
Chris Powell may or may not be a good manager, but a decent and honest man he is, unlike the people running our club and I'm not saying the previous owners were any better.
From what I have picked up from talking to people within the club there is an acknowledgement amongst, at least, some of the senior staff, that being a championship side costs up to £10m per year to run (not exactly rocket science to work that out). There also seems an expectation that RD is in this for the long haul (at least 5 years and probably longer was the view expressed) and will fund this level of debt. Of course, there is a question where that debt lies. If it is just added to the club whilst he plays at social experiments, then it probably takes us further away from getting into the premier league, especially if the majority of the money is going into capital and social schemes rather than the playing squad.
I don't think the comments expressed to me are based on RD showing his cards to any one, but they do reflect how staff at Charlton are currently seeing things. What has surprised me is that there is still a significant appetite and enthusiasm for trying new schemes and projects and a belief that by continuing to introduce new things will make people be more positive.
There is also seems to be a belief that once we start winning enough games and get out of trouble that the dissatisfaction will disappear. They may be right to some extent on this point.
Couple of snipes when our guy was talking at the start.
It all seems reactive, rather than proactive!
Not hating by the way, just intrigued.
And on a sidenote, RM quite obviously on his phone is a piss take. Lost all respect I had for the man, he's there for his money and his money only.
Had a feel of 'same time next year people when we can talk over the same old stuff having not really achieved anything'
I really don't know where we go from here.
'Diawara is supposed to be the best centre half you've never heard of' - Richard Murray.
Jose Riga can vouch for you on that Rich!
there were so many opportunities to jump in and pressurise weak or wayward answers to the few worthwhile question's raised, but this did not seem to be done.
9 minutes of corporate bullshit by PowerPoint (albeit delivered worse than even most apprentices or graduates are capable of)that had several separate invites for questions yet just one of the deliberate plants in the room chose to speak up.
Waste of time as the cherry picked few were clearly incapable of putting the necessary pressure on KM and RM. I'll bet RM had a giggle to himself when he jumped in the car.
Until that is addressed then its over...
We get the results right on the pitch we will all quieten down... and have a hated CEO and owner...
If the results keep going wrong the hatred will bubble over as we saw on the weekend...
The fact that no one asked "why do you think a 3rd division Belgium manger is the right fit..." actually thinking about it it would have been a waste of time...
They are modern football... they are the new wave...
In truth we lost "our" Charlton years ago.. the last sniff was Powell going...
I'm not as angry as most of you. My only criticisms of the board are not giving managers 100% control of transfers and managers not being given enough time.
I think the fans should have grilled the board a bit more on that. 5 managers in such a short space of time is totally unacceptable.
A lot of the questions were overtalked and just too easy for KM and RM to just sidestep with stock, fluffy answers.
For Christ sake why were people banging on about Valley Express, lounges etc!?
The awkward protest on Saturday (which was about as forceful as a silent fart) and the easy ride given to the board last night just tells me that this fanbase is TOO BLOODY NICE for any real changes to occur.
We are Football fans FFS - show some actual passion and emotion, drop the corporate disguises and as long as it's not insulting - just say what you think! What have we got to lose?
Sorry, but that was a huge opportunity wasted for us to really get some answers or at least point out their errors properly.
But there was some seriously lily-livered questioning.
I wish someone had pinned them on the ridiculous appointment of managers with virtually zero pedigree. And on the amount of managers we've had in two years! Also nothing on the decisions to sign players like LePoint.
I also wish someone had said 'why have you wheeled out JJ tonight?'
There was so much waffle!
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
That would sort the woman out.
We aimed for the latter, but for various reasons didn't quite succeed - largely I feel because we never quite wrested the control of our agenda. The latter is why I took the mic back every now and again, to try to get our flow back, but I was very conscious the meeting shouldn't be dominated by one voice. I thought John C did a great job of holding onto the mic and as such his bit probably had the best flow of all of it. We also had to concede we weren't the only people in the room, and the others deserved to participate too. Even the club shop guy, even Syd.
Even so, whilst I know a number of people would have liked us to be more in their faces I do think our approach gave them no excuse not to give straight answers to straight questions and you can judge for yourselves whether they did that. A personal view is that whilst we may have missed some opportunity, that's an accusation that can absolutely be leveled at the club. Presented by a relentlessly calm and respectful group they might have considered it a perfect opportunity to open up a bit, change the nature of the dialogue.
A slight disappointment is that KM apparently expected a harder time, but then in some ways she was no doubt expecting some belligerence and rudeness, and points like the one Craig Norris made so well wouldn't have carried as much weight if the meeting was more tense or we'd been angry.
On the whole I think we got our approach right, we missed some opportunity to put a bit of pressure on, but we didn't miss all. They therefore had the rope with which to hang themselves, and got tangled a few times. We were well prepared, but as I say we never got control of the format and that did hamstring us a bit.
Perhaps an important outcome is that she is in no doubt now that the fan base she's so easily been able to divide can unite and it can be powerful. Just a small example perhaps , but I do wonder whether the greater threat to them lies in the protest or the quieter intelligent response. Both perhaps are needed, and perhaps this is a time for different groups to play to their strengths in different aspects of a common campaign to get the best for our great club.
We'd all need to leave our egos at the door though.