Has anybody ever thought that RD has been trying to get into KM's knickers? - that why she has a natural procrastinating attitude, and the reason why we now have a NHS centre, so that RD can go pick up his little blue pills once he gets the nod (and wink).
Has anybody ever thought that RD has been trying to get into KM's knickers? - that why she has a natural procrastinating attitude, and the reason why we now have a NHS centre, so that RD can go pick up his little blue pills once he gets the nod (and wink).
As we all know this is not an uncommon scenario in the business world, we are all human after all. I think KM's procrastinating is more likely to be down to the threat she feels to her position.
She has, despite the fact that she seems universally unpopular with her customer base, for her what is I would imagine the absolute dream job. CEO of a high profile company in an interesting field, in London surrounded by fit young men & from a power perspective the ear of the owner (which in a family run company is the ultimate). Why would she facilitate anything that would threaten this?
edit - on reflection. Fit young men is a misnomer half-fit young men is what i mean.
Has anybody ever thought that RD has been trying to get into KM's knickers? - that why she has a natural procrastinating attitude, and the reason why we now have a NHS centre, so that RD can go pick up his little blue pills once he gets the nod (and wink).
KM & RM know that there is a demented old fool keeping them employed who doesn't know his arse from his elbow when it comes to running a football club. They are hangers on, who have gained his trust and are no doubt rewarded handsomely. Why would they want to compromise that by entertaining a proposal from a serious player like Peter Varney. RD has probably been told that the meeting was a waste of time and that PV had nothing to offer.
I hadn't thought of it like that. Possible I suppose although Luzon's introduction suggested RD has the reigns.
I have experienced a similar situation first hand when I was employed by the worlds second richest man in the 90's. The "boss" was well protected/insulated from the business by his inner circle of close associates in whom he placed his complete trust. Those who were able to get close and gain his trust were treated to share in his opulent lifestyle. They were interested only in maintaining that lifestyle for as long as possible, screwing him for whatever they could in terms of expenses, flights, hotel rooms, rent allowance, car etc. Such expenses were chicken feed to him, of no consequence, and most likely went unnoticed. Emails were heavily censored and anyone caught criticicing was immediately dismissed. Any morals went out of the window, they were interested only in getting a contract extension for as long as possible to stay on the gravy train. I can see this in KM and Carol. Not so sure where RM fits in. Why else would they be so keen to hang on to their positions in the face of universal condemnation.
It is true that if the club is sold she is out of a job. Unless, the new owners keep her on as CEO. I shouldn't have typed that last bit, I laughed so much doing it a bit of wee came out!
RD will undoubtedly consult RM about PV but perhaps thats not the issue.
Aside from the apparent slowness in response there is another Elephant in this particular room, RD may not want to sell, simple as that
Anyone know the background to him selling Standard Liege this year? Did he cash in and make a big profit - did he put the club up for sale or was he approached by another investor?
Sold to his vice chairmen when the heat from the fans became too much.
Doubt he made much of a profit if any.
Ive already several times posted what the Socios have reported to us, which is not quite the trite summary youve given, but hey, you know better whats going on in Liege
For the benefit of this thread, and to save people searching for it, could you please repost what the Socios have reported to you. After all, you appear to know whats going on in Liege better then most
Ok...there are three elements to his problems at Standard
1. Ownership conflict because of STVV getting promotion. He has pissed off the owners of Belgiums other big clubs and they were not prepared to let him pretend he wasn't involved with STVV
2. At Standard there is a real board of directors, and one of them was willing and able to buy from him. That guy, Bruno Venanzi, appears to enjoy the confidence of the fans in much the same way PV does here.
3. The protests from fans.
Probably in that order but nobody knows for sure.
As for what he got for it, this is what we are trying to get to the bottom of. Jacques of the Socios is a great guy, but for a chartered accountant he sounds like Jeremy Corbyn in his Trotskyist days. He talks of RD employing the bank account of €30m. Obviously that can't just happen in Liege, it's not in Siberia. Amounts of that kind appeared in the Belgian press, so clearly @carly burn 's assertion isn't right. The question is whether there was anything improper. The Socios are certainly suggesting at, but they are an excitable bunch. We certainly though plan to keep talking with them and get to the bottom of it. They say there are issues regarding the Watt transfer, but again we don't know whether there is any substance to this.
We also plan to get an update on what is going on at Ujpest and Jena, but we don't have any good links to Alcorcon. We hope to test the theory of Belgian journos that RD is getting fed up with his football experiment generally.
It would be amazing if he wasn't getting fed up with it - It isn't working and he can see it isn't working. Surely it is only pride he is playing for now.
The Trust (or it's running party) seem to be very, neutral to put it politely, towards RM. The same man who was shooting us down at Q&A's while we ask genuinely concerning questions, the same man who sits next to a laughing witch who laughs at our demise, the same man who was telling lies about the way RD would run this club when he took over (I didn't even know RD but a little research told me something a bit contrary to what RM believed).
Sometimes you need to look closer to home, there is quite obviously a hidden agenda for RM, most probably his money - but there is NO question about who has the Clubs best interests at heart if you had to decide between RM and PV. It doesn't begin with an R.
I'm afraid without action soon, Trust, you'll be left behind.. the army are ready to fire and the 'generals' are still prancing around waiting for January Transfer Window (lol). It's nothing personal as I respect the work you have and are putting in, but forget RM for his past.. look at his actions now. He's part of the problem I'm afraid.
If RM's consideration is his cash, then he is more likely to get it back with different owners. This lot have demonstrated that there are no immediate ambitions to even be a mid-table Championship club. If the Premier League unlocks the cash, then RM should back whomever has the best chance of getting us there.
It was made clear to me when Trust chair there was no interest in allowing fans to buy equity, but also that email trail suggests hes not that keen to even contemplate selling or welcome other investors.
really? He asked KM to arrange a meeting so it actually suggests otherwise.
A puzzle then, perhaps something then happened offline to make her delay, all the same the end result wasn't exactly welcoming
I don't think anyone has really touched on the important question and concern here. New owners usually means a new manager. Just imagine we as fans managed to find a way to get behind PV and force the issue (not likely i know but just imagine), how would everyone feel when the first thing he does is sack our friend Fraeye and how long do we all think it would take him?
The Trust (or it's running party) seem to be very, neutral to put it politely, towards RM. The same man who was shooting us down at Q&A's while we ask genuinely concerning questions, the same man who sits next to a laughing witch who laughs at our demise, the same man who was telling lies about the way RD would run this club when he took over (I didn't even know RD but a little research told me something a bit contrary to what RM believed).
Sometimes you need to look closer to home, there is quite obviously a hidden agenda for RM, most probably his money - but there is NO question about who has the Clubs best interests at heart if you had to decide between RM and PV. It doesn't begin with an R.
I'm afraid without action soon, Trust, you'll be left behind.. the army are ready to fire and the 'generals' are still prancing around waiting for January Transfer Window (lol). It's nothing personal as I respect the work you have and are putting in, but forget RM for his past.. look at his actions now. He's part of the problem I'm afraid.
If RM's consideration is his cash, then he is more likely to get it back with different owners. This lot have demonstrated that there are no immediate ambitions to even be a mid-table Championship club. If the Premier League unlocks the cash, then RM should back whomever has the best chance of getting us there.
It would be interesting to know whether the debt is payable under a couple of different scenarios:-
If RD sells what is his obligation to pay debts owed and how much clever accounting can be employed to minimize any amount paid?
Would new owners be willing to recognize any "external" debit obligation (either up front during the sale or in the event of promotion to the Prem) and/or contractually agree to it?
Both of these scenarios are twists on the "get to the Premier and get your money back" one, anyone got any expertise to throw light on the subject?
It was made clear to me when Trust chair there was no interest in allowing fans to buy equity, but also that email trail suggests hes not that keen to even contemplate selling or welcome other investors.
really? He asked KM to arrange a meeting so it actually suggests otherwise.
A puzzle then, perhaps something then happened offline to make her delay, all the same the end result wasn't exactly welcoming
I don't think you are that naive to imagine there was no time in a 3 month period to have a 30 minute meeting?
Not sure wht you mean, but I was suggesting an internal discussion
The Trust (or it's running party) seem to be very, neutral to put it politely, towards RM. The same man who was shooting us down at Q&A's while we ask genuinely concerning questions, the same man who sits next to a laughing witch who laughs at our demise, the same man who was telling lies about the way RD would run this club when he took over (I didn't even know RD but a little research told me something a bit contrary to what RM believed).
Sometimes you need to look closer to home, there is quite obviously a hidden agenda for RM, most probably his money - but there is NO question about who has the Clubs best interests at heart if you had to decide between RM and PV. It doesn't begin with an R.
I'm afraid without action soon, Trust, you'll be left behind.. the army are ready to fire and the 'generals' are still prancing around waiting for January Transfer Window (lol). It's nothing personal as I respect the work you have and are putting in, but forget RM for his past.. look at his actions now. He's part of the problem I'm afraid.
If RM's consideration is his cash, then he is more likely to get it back with different owners. This lot have demonstrated that there are no immediate ambitions to even be a mid-table Championship club. If the Premier League unlocks the cash, then RM should back whomever has the best chance of getting us there.
It would be interesting to know whether the debt is payable under a couple of different scenarios:-
If RD sells what is his obligation to pay debts owed and how much clever accounting can be employed to minimize any amount paid?
Would new owners be willing to recognize any "external" debit obligation (either up front during the sale or in the event of promotion to the Prem) and/or contractually agree to it?
Both of these scenarios are twists on the "get to the Premier and get your money back" one, anyone got any expertise to throw light on the subject?
It would have to be somebody who has access to the agreement, specifically, what happens in the event of the owner selling before getting into the premiership.
The thing i'm trying to understand from the email chain is RD's response to PV where he "is sure KM will propose a new date asap."
That quote itself indicates he was willing to talk to PV. Maybe RD ought to have negotiated directly with PV but I can understand him delegating it to KM to get a feeler for what PV was proposing. On RD's email he copied in someone called Hilde Noels along with RM. At this point who is and why was this Hilde Noels brought into the email chain along with RM, was it intended for RM to give KM a nudge to make sure the meeting with PV happened or perhaps for KM to get more of an insight about PV from RM before a potential meeting took place?
What we don't know as others have said is what other communication went on outside of this email chain?
If I was RD I would have been following up on this email chain to KM but then again none of us seem to be able to gauge the working of RD's mind. Maybe he did privately between him and KM but it's still quite staggering that the whole thing just came to a standstill.
The break down in arranging a meeting is clearly with KM, what's not clear is how much influence (if any) RM had when RD has copied him into the email chain, you would think surely if RM really wanted this to happen he would have been a lot more influencial in making a meeting happen but it appears from reading the email chain that RM has put his own feelings of PV ahead of the best interests of the club much like he did in appointing Dowie putting his own interests before the best interests of the club.
The Trust (or it's running party) seem to be very, neutral to put it politely, towards RM. The same man who was shooting us down at Q&A's while we ask genuinely concerning questions, the same man who sits next to a laughing witch who laughs at our demise, the same man who was telling lies about the way RD would run this club when he took over (I didn't even know RD but a little research told me something a bit contrary to what RM believed).
Sometimes you need to look closer to home, there is quite obviously a hidden agenda for RM, most probably his money - but there is NO question about who has the Clubs best interests at heart if you had to decide between RM and PV. It doesn't begin with an R.
I'm afraid without action soon, Trust, you'll be left behind.. the army are ready to fire and the 'generals' are still prancing around waiting for January Transfer Window (lol). It's nothing personal as I respect the work you have and are putting in, but forget RM for his past.. look at his actions now. He's part of the problem I'm afraid.
If RM's consideration is his cash, then he is more likely to get it back with different owners. This lot have demonstrated that there are no immediate ambitions to even be a mid-table Championship club. If the Premier League unlocks the cash, then RM should back whomever has the best chance of getting us there.
It would be interesting to know whether the debt is payable under a couple of different scenarios:-
If RD sells what is his obligation to pay debts owed and how much clever accounting can be employed to minimize any amount paid?
Would new owners be willing to recognize any "external" debit obligation (either up front during the sale or in the event of promotion to the Prem) and/or contractually agree to it?
Both of these scenarios are twists on the "get to the Premier and get your money back" one, anyone got any expertise to throw light on the subject?
It would have to be somebody who has access to the agreement, specifically, what happens in the event of the owner selling before getting into the premiership.
Think you will find that their debt is legally secure and it cannot just be dismissed or written off. If we were taken over the new owners could pay off the debt or continue with a similar agreement as present which would seem the most likely as why would you voluntarily pay off a debt that may never become due?
PV gave them a chance to talk to him. The response, whether it was 2 or 3 meetings cancelled (what does it matter), was disrespectful. Yes, PV could go on flogging a dead horse or stir up the fans. Up until now we have been agitating but disagreeing on the best way to approach our fight, this has knocked us into shape. This is such a big deal and I'd be sure RD and KM realise how damaging this development if were it not for their previous evidence of ignorance. This is the oil to fuel the fans protests that it has previously lacked. I have always said, If I owned the club, my first appointment would be Airman. I'd much rather him batting for me than against me. This is really turning toxic for RD and that will benefit any takeover. PV and Airman has played this hand very well. If RD had any sense ( no evidence to suggest he has I know) he would be talking to PV himself right now. Either that, or appoint Curbishley as manager to outflank him, which he won't do, even if it is his only hope of fixing this from his perspective.
On RD's email he copied in someone called Hilde Noels along with RM. At this point who is and why was this Hilde Noels brought into the email chain along with RM
All of these Belgians seem to be on LinkedIn.
Hilde Noels is a Legal and Investor Relations Assistant for Melexis (RD's electronics company). It looks like an admin/secretarial role from the information on LinkedIn, so I can't help with your question.
For anyone interested, PV copies in An De Hert in his original email. De Hert is RD's personal assistant.
Bad form in my opinion for PV to fail to copy Demi King in his response on 9th November as it's Demi who is trying to arrange the dates.
I think there's a big logical jump being made in trying to work out RM's actions and intentions from an email trail in which RM was copied in at the end and has not said anything.
In total, PV sends 8 emails over the course of this thread. I'm not sure they're "stringing him along", though obviously cancelling/forgetting about meetings at short notice is terrible business. If they wanted to string him along, it would have been a much longer thread. It is not clear from the emails that PV is proposing a takeover, though it is of course his prerogative to keep his cards close to his chest before a meeting.
whether it was 2 or 3 meetings cancelled (what does it matter)
It matters because if three meetings were arranged, then the email thread printed in VOTV is not complete, as only two meetings are arranged in that thread.
They should have initially been biting his hands off to find out what he was offering. By not doing so, they would have been messing him about. They went beyond messing him about - considering the length of time in which KM could not spare 30 minutes, yes it can be deemed to be 'stringing him along' surely.
On RD's email he copied in someone called Hilde Noels along with RM. At this point who is and why was this Hilde Noels brought into the email chain along with RM
All of these Belgians seem to be on LinkedIn.
Hilde Noels is a Legal and Investor Relations Assistant for Melexis (RD's electronics company). It looks like an admin/secretarial role from the information on LinkedIn, so I can't help with your question.
For anyone interested, PV copies in An De Hert in his original email. De Hert is RD's personal assistant.
Bad form in my opinion for PV to fail to copy Demi King in his response on 9th November as it's Demi who is trying to arrange the dates.
I think there's a big logical jump being made in trying to work out RM's actions and intentions from an email trail in which RM was copied in at the end and has not said anything.
In total, PV sends 8 emails over the course of this thread. I'm not sure they're "stringing him along", though obviously cancelling/forgetting about meetings at short notice is terrible business. If they wanted to string him along, it would have been a much longer thread. It is not clear from the emails that PV is proposing a takeover, though it is of course his prerogative to keep his cards close to his chest before a meeting.
It's the silence of RM which speaks volumes though. He was copied in on November 9th by RD and then on the further emails sent on the 18th and 19th November. Now I accept it's possible RM may not have seen the emails for perhaps being away on holiday or he may even have taken some form of action in person outside of the email chain but either way an email of this significance should have been seen by RM during this period and acted upon even if to somewhat apologise for a lack of meeting arranged so far and look to get one organised asap as RD stated.
Comments
She has, despite the fact that she seems universally unpopular with her customer base, for her what is I would imagine the absolute dream job.
CEO of a high profile company in an interesting field, in London surrounded by fit young men & from a power perspective the ear of the owner (which in a family run company is the ultimate). Why would she facilitate anything that would threaten this?
edit - on reflection. Fit young men is a misnomer half-fit young men is what i mean.
Could be a reason why RM is keeping his counsel.
1. Ownership conflict because of STVV getting promotion. He has pissed off the owners of Belgiums other big clubs and they were not prepared to let him pretend he wasn't involved with STVV
2. At Standard there is a real board of directors, and one of them was willing and able to buy from him. That guy, Bruno Venanzi, appears to enjoy the confidence of the fans in much the same way PV does here.
3. The protests from fans.
Probably in that order but nobody knows for sure.
As for what he got for it, this is what we are trying to get to the bottom of. Jacques of the Socios is a great guy, but for a chartered accountant he sounds like Jeremy Corbyn in his Trotskyist days. He talks of RD employing the bank account of €30m. Obviously that can't just happen in Liege, it's not in Siberia. Amounts of that kind appeared in the Belgian press, so clearly @carly burn 's assertion isn't right. The question is whether there was anything improper. The Socios are certainly suggesting at, but they are an excitable bunch. We certainly though plan to keep talking with them and get to the bottom of it. They say there are issues regarding the Watt transfer, but again we don't know whether there is any substance to this.
We also plan to get an update on what is going on at Ujpest and Jena, but we don't have any good links to Alcorcon. We hope to test the theory of Belgian journos that RD is getting fed up with his football experiment generally.
If RD sells what is his obligation to pay debts owed and how much clever accounting can be employed to minimize any amount paid?
Would new owners be willing to recognize any "external" debit obligation (either up front during the sale or in the event of promotion to the Prem) and/or contractually agree to it?
Both of these scenarios are twists on the "get to the Premier and get your money back" one, anyone got any expertise to throw light on the subject?
I've read through the emails a few times and I can only see two dates that are arranged - 5th October and 10th November
What is the third date? The suggestion of 28th/29th September is declined immediately.
That quote itself indicates he was willing to talk to PV. Maybe RD ought to have negotiated directly with PV but I can understand him delegating it to KM to get a feeler for what PV was proposing. On RD's email he copied in someone called Hilde Noels along with RM. At this point who is and why was this Hilde Noels brought into the email chain along with RM, was it intended for RM to give KM a nudge to make sure the meeting with PV happened or perhaps for KM to get more of an insight about PV from RM before a potential meeting took place?
What we don't know as others have said is what other communication went on outside of this email chain?
If I was RD I would have been following up on this email chain to KM but then again none of us seem to be able to gauge the working of RD's mind. Maybe he did privately between him and KM but it's still quite staggering that the whole thing just came to a standstill.
The break down in arranging a meeting is clearly with KM, what's not clear is how much influence (if any) RM had when RD has copied him into the email chain, you would think surely if RM really wanted this to happen he would have been a lot more influencial in making a meeting happen but it appears from reading the email chain that RM has put his own feelings of PV ahead of the best interests of the club much like he did in appointing Dowie putting his own interests before the best interests of the club.
Hilde Noels is a Legal and Investor Relations Assistant for Melexis (RD's electronics company). It looks like an admin/secretarial role from the information on LinkedIn, so I can't help with your question.
For anyone interested, PV copies in An De Hert in his original email. De Hert is RD's personal assistant.
Bad form in my opinion for PV to fail to copy Demi King in his response on 9th November as it's Demi who is trying to arrange the dates.
I think there's a big logical jump being made in trying to work out RM's actions and intentions from an email trail in which RM was copied in at the end and has not said anything.
In total, PV sends 8 emails over the course of this thread. I'm not sure they're "stringing him along", though obviously cancelling/forgetting about meetings at short notice is terrible business. If they wanted to string him along, it would have been a much longer thread. It is not clear from the emails that PV is proposing a takeover, though it is of course his prerogative to keep his cards close to his chest before a meeting.