To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control.
To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? They were eaten by people and other predators such as wolves (Yes, they were hunted to extinction by our forefathers, but long before conservation was thought about, as you stipulated in your question).
There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. No offence Setho mate, but is this your main experience of the animals in the countryside we're talking about, seeing them from the train? But in part answer to this observation, this is why I'm trying to work towards to growing me own and gathering me own and rearing me own.
I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area. So am I mate, I hate seeing folk stamp on spiders etc. and have told people in the past to not do it! As you know, I work in pest control, but I have turned work down in the past as I have not perceived that the hornets nest or whatever to be a problem. My main focus when working in the pest industry was always prevention rather than cure.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control. Why is that, nowt wrong with talking about it, or am I annoying you?
To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control.
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to put spiders that you find indoors out as they won't survive.
To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control.
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to put spiders that you find indoors out as they won't survive.
Same as people who think they're being 'humane' by using live capture mouse traps and then going to let them go in the wild. A solitary mouse will not last 5 minutes out of its family unit and will probably die of starvation.
I've cut mammals and birds oht of my diet, and try to eat only sustainable fish. The reason behind that was the horse meat in Lausanne scandal. Nothing against eating horse as compared to cow, more the fact that they didn't know what meat they were using. Intensive farming of animals (including farmed seafood) doesn't sit right with me. Take for example the massive use of antibiotics used. The last ditch antibiotic was given to pigs and China, and now there is resistance to it. The mind boggles.
I'm sure it's entirely possible to feed the world with sustainable food. We can start by eating less meat.
Btw, I have no issue with hunting for the pot, especially if you are controlling deer and rabbit numbers. I'd rather eat that meat than most other food
All these city folk coming up with pie in the sky solutions of how we can all live in harmony with Mother Earth and live off quinoa reminds me of stories of evacuees who had to go to the countryside and their hosts were astonished that they had never seen where meat, dairy or eggs had come from. Totally clueless as far as how important livestock agriculture is.
Animals are hardy and natural. The products we get from them are renewable and biodegradable, as are any waste products. The synthetic materials, and other meat-free substitutes, are not, or their production produces undesirable waste products or other problems. Also, crops are much more susceptible to blight and disease as well as the seasons. When we are warned every other week that we are approaching a crisis in terms of food, global warming, or pollution, we'd be utter fools to play god and think we can create all the food and products we need from factories. If another war comes, guess what will be one of the first things to be attacked or bombed? Or if we rely on crops for our food, it makes them very susceptible to being poisoned/destroyed by terrorists.
Just like Brexit, there is a good reason why barely any experts put their name to this idea. Going against nature and completely transforming the global agriculture cycle just because a handful of people think it is immoral to teach kids songs like Old MacDonald then feed them beef is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
For what it's worth I'm an animal lover, and I'm more likely to be upset or distressed by seeing cruelty to an animal than I am a person - as sh!tty as that is of me. It may seem a bit skewed that I have this view regarding animals, whilst at the same time I'm prepared to tuck in to one after it's been "murdered". I completely understand that.
However, I do eat meat and I enjoy it; as long as I can eat it and feel reasonably sure that it wasn't treated shittily whilst it was alive. I think many people have this belief, i.e see the uproar over Halal meat and the methods of killing the animals. Obviously ensuring decent standards for your meat may require you pay a bit more for it, but that's definitely worth it.
I remember working on a Chicken Farm for a few weeks back in 2010, it was "free range" and the only produce from the farm was the eggs. Now I hated the people who ran that farm, and there were many things I didn't like.. but the actual treatment of the Chickens were pretty decent. These were people that would've cut corners any way they could've, and would've done anything to save a penny or two. Fortunately the way things were regulated they didn't have a great deal of room to be nasty. (Although I did object to the way the farmers union used to advise their members NOT to let the RSPCA inspect without a union rep present.)
Proper regulation, standards and provisions of care for the animals is the way forward; including quick and humane methods of slaughter. It's a horrible subject to talk about - but it's simply a fact of life, a side effect of the food chain. In a lot of ways we're better than the food chain: I don't see the average Lion wondering around South Africa with a stun gun, waiting to stun it's prey before it kills it!
I was recently looking after some Swedish guys visiting the UK, and I found out one was a vegetarian. Presuming this was on ethical/moral grounds I asked him how long he'd been veggie: about 6 months, but only after "Cowspiracy" on Netflix. Apparently he wasn't doing it because of health or animal welfare reasons, but the arguments in that documentary. I keep meaning to watch it myself, but I can't see anything stopping me from eating meat.
I do object to - and nobody has done this on this thread thankfully - people casting aspersions on either my ethics or my morals because I eat meat. I also object to how these discussions often come across as religious: with extremism and persistence to rival most mainstream religions!
Animal testing of cosmetics though? Don't get me started on that shit show.
To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? They were eaten by people and other predators such as wolves (Yes, they were hunted to extinction by our forefathers, but long before conservation was thought about, as you stipulated in your question).
There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. No offence Setho mate, but is this your main experience of the animals in the countryside we're talking about, seeing them from the train? But in part answer to this observation, this is why I'm trying to work towards to growing me own and gathering me own and rearing me own.
I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area. So am I mate, I hate seeing folk stamp on spiders etc. and have told people in the past to not do it! As you know, I work in pest control, but I have turned work down in the past as I have not perceived that the hornets nest or whatever to be a problem. My main focus when working in the pest industry was always prevention rather than cure.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control. Why is that, nowt wrong with talking about it, or am I annoying you?
Not annoying at all. However I am conscious that revealing myself as a vegetarian makes me wary of being labelled a sociopath.
To answer the second point first with a question, how were animals conserved before the concept of conservation was thought up? They were eaten by people and other predators such as wolves (Yes, they were hunted to extinction by our forefathers, but long before conservation was thought about, as you stipulated in your question).
There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. No offence Setho mate, but is this your main experience of the animals in the countryside we're talking about, seeing them from the train? But in part answer to this observation, this is why I'm trying to work towards to growing me own and gathering me own and rearing me own.
I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area. So am I mate, I hate seeing folk stamp on spiders etc. and have told people in the past to not do it! As you know, I work in pest control, but I have turned work down in the past as I have not perceived that the hornets nest or whatever to be a problem. My main focus when working in the pest industry was always prevention rather than cure.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control. Why is that, nowt wrong with talking about it, or am I annoying you?
Not annoying at all. However I am conscious that revealing myself as a vegetarian makes me wary of being labelled a sociopath.
But removing it from any future bank notes is literally stupid (no offense intended).
The animal is already dead, instead of making that death worth all it can be by using all the left over waste parts of the animal. Instead we will be wasting these left over bits that'll just go in a landfill.
To compensate for this we are then going to go through an artificial process to produce something that does the same job. But at the same time producing potentially harmful waste byproducts and using much more carbon as a result of a larger production process.. Basically causing much more environmental damage and more landfill use.
Hardly good for conservation.
The environment should be considered as a whole and there are benefits to the vegetarian view of conservation it doesn't mean we should ignore all other aspects.
I feel that if common sense is applied this should be considered a battle too far.
All these city folk coming up with pie in the sky solutions of how we can all live in harmony with Mother Earth and live off quinoa reminds me of stories of evacuees who had to go to the countryside and their hosts were astonished that they had never seen where meat, dairy or eggs had come from. Totally clueless as far as how important livestock agriculture is.
Animals are hardy and natural. The products we get from them are renewable and biodegradable, as are any waste products. The synthetic materials, and other meat-free substitutes, are not, or their production produces undesirable waste products or other problems. Also, crops are much more susceptible to blight and disease as well as the seasons. When we are warned every other week that we are approaching a crisis in terms of food, global warming, or pollution, we'd be utter fools to play god and think we can create all the food and products we need from factories. If another war comes, guess what will be one of the first things to be attacked or bombed? Or if we rely on crops for our food, it makes them very susceptible to being poisoned/destroyed by terrorists.
Just like Brexit, there is a good reason why barely any experts put their name to this idea. Going against nature and completely transforming the global agriculture cycle just because a handful of people think it is immoral to teach kids songs like Old MacDonald then feed them beef is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
I said it felt weird, not that is was immoral. I have also recognised how much of a minority view I hold. There is a debate to be had regarding livestock agriculture verses crop agriculture and I doubt the conclusions to that debate are clear cut. I wonder how many carnivores from either the cities or countryside would do the slaughtering themselves. The playing god reference you make can work both ways in my view. Anyway I repeat we are simply going round in circles as we always do every few months when vegetarianism is brought up on Charlton Life. The carnivores dominate, just like the Trump voters or the brexiters or the Manchester United supporters, or the right wing media (IMHO) or the rich football club owners, and as such I am resigned to being in the minority in most things.
LuckyReds if you read this thread as evidence, in terms of casting aspersions, it is the vegetarians who are having the piss taken out of them, not the carnivores.
All these city folk coming up with pie in the sky solutions of how we can all live in harmony with Mother Earth and live off quinoa reminds me of stories of evacuees who had to go to the countryside and their hosts were astonished that they had never seen where meat, dairy or eggs had come from. Totally clueless as far as how important livestock agriculture is.
Animals are hardy and natural. The products we get from them are renewable and biodegradable, as are any waste products. The synthetic materials, and other meat-free substitutes, are not, or their production produces undesirable waste products or other problems. Also, crops are much more susceptible to blight and disease as well as the seasons. When we are warned every other week that we are approaching a crisis in terms of food, global warming, or pollution, we'd be utter fools to play god and think we can create all the food and products we need from factories. If another war comes, guess what will be one of the first things to be attacked or bombed? Or if we rely on crops for our food, it makes them very susceptible to being poisoned/destroyed by terrorists.
Just like Brexit, there is a good reason why barely any experts put their name to this idea. Going against nature and completely transforming the global agriculture cycle just because a handful of people think it is immoral to teach kids songs like Old MacDonald then feed them beef is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
I said it felt weird, not that is was immoral. I have also recognised how much of a minority view I hold. There is a debate to be had regarding livestock agriculture verses crop agriculture and I doubt the conclusions to that debate are clear cut. I wonder how many carnivores from either the cities or countryside would do the slaughtering themselves. The playing god reference you make can work both ways in my view. Anyway I repeat we are simply going round in circles as we always do every few months when vegetarianism is brought up on Charlton Life. The carnivores dominate, just like the Trump voters or the brexiters or the Manchester United supporters, or the right wing media (IMHO) or the rich football club owners, and as such I am resigned to being in the minority in most things.
Jesus wept Seth, why did you end up having to be the victim? I've respected your views
Bollocks am I playing the victim. I am recognising that I am in a minority in this debate, and like you I am respecting the views of others and attempting to engage.
LuckyReds if you read this thread as evidence, in terms of casting aspersions, it is the vegetarians who are having the piss taken out of them, not the carnivores.
I'm not entirely sure that's true, mate. For a bit of contrast - you've just likened people who eat meat to the "right wing media", "rich football club owners", "Trump voters" and "Brexiters".
There's been a few jokes, but nothing malicious or - I'd hope - hurtful. Often these debates turn in to how evil you must be to eat meat, and how it's murder of cuddley little animals etc. Often fact and logic go out of the window, and I've sat in rooms before where spurious scientifically questionable facts have been thrown willy-nilly, before the debate degrades to "BUT IT'S MURDER!".
To be honest I nearly gave this thread a wide berth myself, because I did expect arguments and malice. Surprisingly there's been a few light hearted jokes and some decent points made. I apologise if you feel in any way marginalised though, I'm not sure that was anyone's intention.
LuckyReds if you read this thread as evidence, in terms of casting aspersions, it is the vegetarians who are having the piss taken out of them, not the carnivores.
I'm not entirely sure that's true, mate. For a bit of contrast - you've just likened people who eat meat to the "right wing media", "rich football club owners", "Trump voters" and "Brexiters".
There's been a few jokes, but nothing malicious or - I'd hope - hurtful. Often these debates turn in to how evil you must be to eat meat, and how it's murder of cuddley little animals etc. Often fact and logic go out of the window, and I've sat in rooms before where spurious scientifically questionable facts have been thrown willy-nilly, before the debate degrades to "BUT IT'S MURDER!".
To be honest I nearly gave this thread a wide berth myself, because I did expect arguments and malice. Surprisingly there's been a few light hearted jokes and some decent points made. I apologise if you feel in any way marginalised though, I'm not sure that was anyone's intention.
No I used those examples as being in the majority verses a minority.
"Assorted idiotic arseholes. Absorbent paper banknotes are often covered in 'measurable' amounts of, bacon, chicken, mutton & beef fat, cocaine, real shit & crawling in dodgy bacteria."
I tried to be a vegetarian once. It lasted about a week. Fair play to vegans, vegetarians and anyone who makes that choice out of a desire not to eat animals. But humans consume organic matter, that is how we survive. If you are not eating animals then I think I am right in saying you are, nonetheless, eating something that was once "alive", according to the general definition of life. So unless you are eating dust or pebbles off the beach, like all us humans you are "consuming" something. However, I am sure if a few of us did not have meat available to us so free from the grim reality of how it really arrives looking inviting in a Sainsbury's chilled section, we might think differently about it. But most of us, myself included, don't spend a lot of time considering any of that. We just consume stuff, because it is easy, it is there, and it tastes good. So I admire the principled veggie stance to a large degree but as the fiver business shows, those principles are compromised in virtually all areas of the human world.
"Assorted idiotic arseholes. Absorbent paper banknotes are often covered in 'measurable' amounts of, bacon, chicken, mutton & beef fat, cocaine, real shit & crawling in dodgy bacteria."
No offence intended, his words not mine...
You can't avoid what people who use fivers leave on it. You can choose not to use animal products in it's manufacture.
Petrol and diesel comes from dead animals (as well as plants) so I assume veggies walk everywhere ?
They weren't bred to create petrol so I don't see it as the same issue. In the same way some people will only eat meat from stuff like roadkill. But boycott farmed animal products.
Comments
There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production.
It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days.
I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control.
There was a sense of sharing the planet I suggest. It interests me that in old paintings animals such as sheep and cows are all shapes and sizes, we sometimes hear stories of needing to preserve or conserve a rare breed of pig or horse. Nowadays if you gaze at cows for example on a train journey they're all the same, bred the same way for mass food production. It reminds me of how you can't buy a decent tomato nowadays, they're grown to look good in the shop, but are thick skinned, flesh lite tasteless rubbish these days. No offence Setho mate, but is this your main experience of the animals in the countryside we're talking about, seeing them from the train? But in part answer to this observation, this is why I'm trying to work towards to growing me own and gathering me own and rearing me own.
I am someone who will use a bit of paper to put a spider outside, or open a window for a fly or a wasp to get out, I think it is possible to grow food with a fresh approach to pesticides and such, although I am not really an expert in this area. So am I mate, I hate seeing folk stamp on spiders etc. and have told people in the past to not do it! As you know, I work in pest control, but I have turned work down in the past as I have not perceived that the hornets nest or whatever to be a problem. My main focus when working in the pest industry was always prevention rather than cure.
I said to myself to avoid this thread when it started, shows my lack of self control. Why is that, nowt wrong with talking about it, or am I annoying you?
I'm sure it's entirely possible to feed the world with sustainable food. We can start by eating less meat.
Btw, I have no issue with hunting for the pot, especially if you are controlling deer and rabbit numbers. I'd rather eat that meat than most other food
Animals are hardy and natural. The products we get from them are renewable and biodegradable, as are any waste products. The synthetic materials, and other meat-free substitutes, are not, or their production produces undesirable waste products or other problems. Also, crops are much more susceptible to blight and disease as well as the seasons. When we are warned every other week that we are approaching a crisis in terms of food, global warming, or pollution, we'd be utter fools to play god and think we can create all the food and products we need from factories. If another war comes, guess what will be one of the first things to be attacked or bombed? Or if we rely on crops for our food, it makes them very susceptible to being poisoned/destroyed by terrorists.
Just like Brexit, there is a good reason why barely any experts put their name to this idea. Going against nature and completely transforming the global agriculture cycle just because a handful of people think it is immoral to teach kids songs like Old MacDonald then feed them beef is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard.
For what it's worth I'm an animal lover, and I'm more likely to be upset or distressed by seeing cruelty to an animal than I am a person - as sh!tty as that is of me. It may seem a bit skewed that I have this view regarding animals, whilst at the same time I'm prepared to tuck in to one after it's been "murdered". I completely understand that.
However, I do eat meat and I enjoy it; as long as I can eat it and feel reasonably sure that it wasn't treated shittily whilst it was alive. I think many people have this belief, i.e see the uproar over Halal meat and the methods of killing the animals. Obviously ensuring decent standards for your meat may require you pay a bit more for it, but that's definitely worth it.
I remember working on a Chicken Farm for a few weeks back in 2010, it was "free range" and the only produce from the farm was the eggs. Now I hated the people who ran that farm, and there were many things I didn't like.. but the actual treatment of the Chickens were pretty decent. These were people that would've cut corners any way they could've, and would've done anything to save a penny or two. Fortunately the way things were regulated they didn't have a great deal of room to be nasty. (Although I did object to the way the farmers union used to advise their members NOT to let the RSPCA inspect without a union rep present.)
Proper regulation, standards and provisions of care for the animals is the way forward; including quick and humane methods of slaughter. It's a horrible subject to talk about - but it's simply a fact of life, a side effect of the food chain. In a lot of ways we're better than the food chain: I don't see the average Lion wondering around South Africa with a stun gun, waiting to stun it's prey before it kills it!
I was recently looking after some Swedish guys visiting the UK, and I found out one was a vegetarian. Presuming this was on ethical/moral grounds I asked him how long he'd been veggie: about 6 months, but only after "Cowspiracy" on Netflix. Apparently he wasn't doing it because of health or animal welfare reasons, but the arguments in that documentary. I keep meaning to watch it myself, but I can't see anything stopping me from eating meat.
I do object to - and nobody has done this on this thread thankfully - people casting aspersions on either my ethics or my morals because I eat meat. I also object to how these discussions often come across as religious: with extremism and persistence to rival most mainstream religions!
Animal testing of cosmetics though? Don't get me started on that shit show.
"If dole cheques were made of the same, how many of the great unwashed rent-a-mob would boycott them?"
Nothing like a sweeping great generalisation is there...
The animal is already dead, instead of making that death worth all it can be by using all the left over waste parts of the animal. Instead we will be wasting these left over bits that'll just go in a landfill.
To compensate for this we are then going to go through an artificial process to produce something that does the same job. But at the same time producing potentially harmful waste byproducts and using much more carbon as a result of a larger production process.. Basically causing much more environmental damage and more landfill use.
Hardly good for conservation.
The environment should be considered as a whole and there are benefits to the vegetarian view of conservation it doesn't mean we should ignore all other aspects.
I feel that if common sense is applied this should be considered a battle too far.
There is a debate to be had regarding livestock agriculture verses crop agriculture and I doubt the conclusions to that debate are clear cut. I wonder how many carnivores from either the cities or countryside would do the slaughtering themselves.
The playing god reference you make can work both ways in my view. Anyway I repeat we are simply going round in circles as we always do every few months when vegetarianism is brought up on Charlton Life.
The carnivores dominate, just like the Trump voters or the brexiters or the Manchester United supporters, or the right wing media (IMHO) or the rich football club owners, and as such I am resigned to being in the minority in most things.
I am recognising that I am in a minority in this debate, and like you I am respecting the views of others and attempting to engage.
There's been a few jokes, but nothing malicious or - I'd hope - hurtful. Often these debates turn in to how evil you must be to eat meat, and how it's murder of cuddley little animals etc. Often fact and logic go out of the window, and I've sat in rooms before where spurious scientifically questionable facts have been thrown willy-nilly, before the debate degrades to "BUT IT'S MURDER!".
To be honest I nearly gave this thread a wide berth myself, because I did expect arguments and malice. Surprisingly there's been a few light hearted jokes and some decent points made. I apologise if you feel in any way marginalised though, I'm not sure that was anyone's intention.
Did you take that bloke on Twitter up on his offer btw?
"Assorted idiotic arseholes. Absorbent paper banknotes are often covered in 'measurable' amounts of, bacon, chicken, mutton & beef fat, cocaine, real shit & crawling in dodgy bacteria."
No offence intended, his words not mine...
Fair play to vegans, vegetarians and anyone who makes that choice out of a desire not to eat animals.
But humans consume organic matter, that is how we survive. If you are not eating animals then I think I am right in saying you are, nonetheless, eating something that was once "alive", according to the general definition of life.
So unless you are eating dust or pebbles off the beach, like all us humans you are "consuming" something.
However, I am sure if a few of us did not have meat available to us so free from the grim reality of how it really arrives looking inviting in a Sainsbury's chilled section, we might think differently about it.
But most of us, myself included, don't spend a lot of time considering any of that.
We just consume stuff, because it is easy, it is there, and it tastes good.
So I admire the principled veggie stance to a large degree but as the fiver business shows, those principles are compromised in virtually all areas of the human world.
In the same way some people will only eat meat from stuff like roadkill. But boycott farmed animal products.