Interestingly the article says her position is that not all party members are racist, not are the party's policies. In any institution long standing prejudices need to be tackled in a very robust way. I remember hearing about the slaughter of Jews in history, York in 1190 for example, so I am aware that hatred of Jews, which is irrational scapegoating by the way, runs deep everywhere and for thousands of years. Probably in many political parties too. However in this thread about Corbyn I accept fully that his leadership in this matter could be better, there are always improvements to be made, but there is no convincing evidence that Corbyn himself is an anti semite or a racist or a 'friend' of terrorists. Not is there an abundance of evidence that anti semitism is rife throughout the Labour Party. Vigilance and reform is always appropriate. On a personal level my paternal grandmother was Jewish (pogrom escapee) and I would not want to be part of anything that dishonored her memory.
Yes there is convincing evidence @seth plum but I'm not sure you will accept it as evidence
It was when Jeremy Corbyn welcomed Hamas terrorists to Parliament and called them his "friends"
Yes, it would have been far more diplomatic to call them his enemies. I don't think you will ever get the fact that you need to speak to these people respectfully to change things. Thank god brave politicians from both parties had more about them than you when they negotiated the GFA.
Yes, it would have been far more diplomatic to call them his enemies. I don't think you will ever get the fact that you need to speak to these people respectfully to change things. Thank god brave politicians from both parties had more about them than you when they negotiated the GFA.
That’s a bit of a straw man argument, isn’t it? I don’t think anyone is saying that politicians shouldn’t engage on diplomacy - as you say it was important in bringing about the GFA. However referring to members of a terrrorist group as “friends” is horrendous.
I don't think it is - but you have to sit down with them and shake their hands and understand them. Those that are always outraged never provide the solutions - just perpetuate the problems. IMO of course, not yours.
But he hasn't been equally kind about the Israeli government has he? I understand the need for diplomacy, but come on
Corbyn refused to even shake hands with Israeli Socialist MPs. Won't sit down with them either.
He will only talk and shake hands to his friends from the terror groups his anti-western view point see as acceptable.
He has never spoken to both sides, not in Ireland or the middle east but still this myth about "you need to speak to these people" is trotted out to protect his reputation as a "peace maker"
He has done nothing, the opposite in fact, to bring peace or open a dialogue in those places.
But the point stands and even Mutley accepts it is true @seth plum He called Hezbollah and Hamas his "friends"
I don't think it is - but you have to sit down with them and shake their hands and understand them. Those that are always outraged never provide the solutions - just perpetuate the problems. IMO of course, not yours.
Fair enough, Hezbollah or the IRA are not my “friends”, not are people who allow anti-semitism to perpetuate for that matter.
Yes, it would have been far more diplomatic to call them his enemies. I don't think you will ever get the fact that you need to speak to these people respectfully to change things. Thank god brave politicians from both parties had more about them than you when they negotiated the GFA.
From all evidence it seems Jez was deeply unhelpful to the northern irish office and foreign office during the troubles.
Where's the evidence that he helped? There is none. Except, "Yeah, Jeremy's a nice guy".
Labour have until now been the natural home for any minority because social justice is at the heart of their agenda, and throughout most of history minorities in the UK (and elsewhere) have also largely been poorer than the majority.
However the country's Jewish population represent a very awkward blindspot for the hard left because whilst they are clearly a minority (of 250k or so), they're on average better educated, higher-earning and wealthier than the rest of the population and thus don't fit into their simplistic narrative of the rich/powerful/elite on the one hand and the poor/exploited/minority on the other.
Frankly it matters little whether Corbyn is an antisemite or not, he is the Labour leader and has shown virtually no leadership whatsoever on the issue which risks legitimising antisemitism by creating a culture that deems it insufficiently serious versus other forms of discrimination/abuse.
You then throw Israel into the mix (a country/government certainly not without its faults, but nonetheless one which attracts the most virulent and disproportionate bile) and thus the ease of anti-Israel rhetoric morphing into antisemitism in the brains and mouths of the unintelligent, and it's little wonder that the country's Jews are highly uncomfortable at the moment, a disgraceful position given their contribution across every important facet of UK life.
Shaking hands and calling hezbollah and hamas friends hasn't stopped the rockets being launched into jewish people's houses.
Funny how there are people on here you condemn trump giving kim jong un the time of day in the trump thread and then jump on here and say corbyn is right to hang out with terrorists.
The parallels between trump and corbyn are incredibly striking.
Difficult one the terrorism point. I had a girlfriend once who was convinced Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and at one point he was both a terrorist and a freedom fighter.
Sinn Fein, previously terrorists now politicians.
Corbyn has always sided with the side he thinks is more persecuted I think and some of these resort to violent actions against civilians to make their point.
Of course so do most governments.
Long winded way of saying it’s not his worst trait. That would be not having the political nouse to persuade a hamster out of its cage never mind about running the country.
Labour have until now been the natural home for any minority because social justice is at the heart of their agenda, and throughout most of history minorities in the UK (and elsewhere) have also largely been poorer than the majority.
However the country's Jewish population represent a very awkward blindspot for the hard left because whilst they are clearly a minority (of 250k or so), they on average better educated, higher-earning and wealthier than the rest of the population and thus don't fit into their simplistic narrative of the rich/powerful/elite on the one hand and the poor/exploited/minority on the other.
Frankly it matters little whether Corbyn is an antisemite or not, he is the Labour leader and has shown virtually no leadership whatsoever on the issue which risks legitimising antisemitism by creating a culture that deems it insufficiently serious versus other forms of discrimination/abuse.
You then throw Israel into the mix (a country/government certainly not without its faults, but nonetheless one which attracts the most virulent and disproportionate bile) and thus the ease of anti-Israel rhetoric morphing into antisemitism in the brains and mouths of the unintelligent, and it's little wonder that the country's Jews are highly uncomfortable at the moment, a disgraceful position given their contribution across every important facet of UK life.
Difficult one the terrorism point. I had a girlfriend once who was convinced Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, and at one point he was both a terrorist and a freedom fighter.
Sinn Fein, previously terrorists now politicians.
Corbyn has always sided with the side he thinks is more persecuted I think and some of these resort to violent actions against civilians to make their point.
Of course so do most governments.
Long winded way of saying it’s not his worst trait. That would be not having the political nouse to persuade a hamster out of its cage never mind about running the country.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist, which is why his and the south african's story of redemption is one of the greatest real life stories ever imo.
Interestingly the article says her position is that not all party members are racist, not are the party's policies. In any institution long standing prejudices need to be tackled in a very robust way. I remember hearing about the slaughter of Jews in history, York in 1190 for example, so I am aware that hatred of Jews, which is irrational scapegoating by the way, runs deep everywhere and for thousands of years. Probably in many political parties too. However in this thread about Corbyn I accept fully that his leadership in this matter could be better, there are always improvements to be made, but there is no convincing evidence that Corbyn himself is an anti semite or a racist or a 'friend' of terrorists. Not is there an abundance of evidence that anti semitism is rife throughout the Labour Party. Vigilance and reform is always appropriate. On a personal level my paternal grandmother was Jewish (pogrom escapee) and I would not want to be part of anything that dishonored her memory.
Come on seth, you're being bombarded with evidence and then not 2 pages later you keep repeating the same rubbish that has been repeatedly proven and/or disproven.
Each time evidence is presented I have engaged with it, have I not? Being 'bombarded' by a barrage is less effective if much of that barrage is firing blanks.
Interestingly the article says her position is that not all party members are racist, not are the party's policies. In any institution long standing prejudices need to be tackled in a very robust way. I remember hearing about the slaughter of Jews in history, York in 1190 for example, so I am aware that hatred of Jews, which is irrational scapegoating by the way, runs deep everywhere and for thousands of years. Probably in many political parties too. However in this thread about Corbyn I accept fully that his leadership in this matter could be better, there are always improvements to be made, but there is no convincing evidence that Corbyn himself is an anti semite or a racist or a 'friend' of terrorists. Not is there an abundance of evidence that anti semitism is rife throughout the Labour Party. Vigilance and reform is always appropriate. On a personal level my paternal grandmother was Jewish (pogrom escapee) and I would not want to be part of anything that dishonored her memory.
Come on seth, you're being bombarded with evidence and then not 2 pages later you keep repeating the same rubbish that has been repeatedly proven and/or disproven.
Each time evidence is presented I have engaged with it, have I not? Being 'bombarded' by a barrage is less effective if much of that barrage is firing blanks.
Once again, willfully ignoring evidence. Even from corbyn's own mouth.
I don't think it is - but you have to sit down with them and shake their hands and understand them. Those that are always outraged never provide the solutions - just perpetuate the problems. IMO of course, not yours.
Fair enough, Hezbollah or the IRA are not my “friends”, not are people who allow anti-semitism to perpetuate for that matter.
Cobyn is against terrorism and the evidence is from his own words. But sometimes you have to look at things from the other side of the wall. As has been said, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. An example of that is that one poster on here on the EU thread was not aware there were loyalist terrorists. This ignorance never gets problems solved.
Indeed, Nelson Mandela was a great man and was considered a terrorist by the establishment, including this country for a considerable time.
I don't think it is - but you have to sit down with them and shake their hands and understand them. Those that are always outraged never provide the solutions - just perpetuate the problems. IMO of course, not yours.
Fair enough, Hezbollah or the IRA are not my “friends”, not are people who allow anti-semitism to perpetuate for that matter.
Cobyn is against terrorism and the evidence is from his own words. But sometimes you have to look at things from the other side of the wall. As has been said, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. An example of that is that one poster on here on the EU thread was not aware there were loyalist terrorists. This ignorance never gets problems solved.
Indeed, Nelson Mandela was a great man and was considered a terrorist by the establishment, including this country for a considerable time.
Because he was a terrorist, he ordered people to be murdered.
What are your thoughts on trump entertaining kim jong un? @MuttleyCAFC ?
Man, am I glad I abandoned this thread some time ago.
It's a shame, because this could have been an interesting thread. We could have discussed, critically and open-mindedly, the potentialities, pitfalls and possibilities of a Labour government running on a true social democrat platform. We could have discussed policy, economics, and Labour personnel, all of which are interesting and controversial topics.
However, the conversation, at every turn, is hijacked by those wishing to trash Corbyn as an antisemite and by extension shut down all other discussion about him.
To them I simply ask: what will Britain be like for Jews under a Corbyn government?
And to them I answer: no different. No pogroms, no Krystallnacht, no legitimised abuse. Labour, as an institution, stands against all racism.
A few bad apples, yes. A few. Every party has them. Labour need to crack down on theirs especially hard as they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. I have no problem calling this a duty, and I wish they'd do so more assiduously at times.
Now, I think this thread could still turn good, but first we have to simply ignore the noise. It serves not Jewish interests but Tory ones.
Henceforth here I will be applying that policy and I encourage all others to do so as well.
Man, am I glad I abandoned this thread some time ago.
It's a shame, because this could have been an interesting thread. We could have discussed, critically and open-mindedly, the potentialities, pitfalls and possibilities of a Labour government running on a true social democrat platform. We could have discussed policy, economics, and Labour personnel, all of which are interesting and controversial topics.
However, the conversation, at every turn, is hijacked by those wishing to trash Corbyn as an antisemite and by extension shut down all other discussion about him.
To them I simply ask: what will Britain be like for Jews under a Corbyn government?
And to them I answer: no different. No pogroms, no Krystallnacht, no legitimised abuse. Labour, as an institution, stands against all racism.
A few bad apples, yes. A few. Every party has them. Labour need to crack down on theirs especially hard as they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. I have no problem calling this a duty, and I wish they'd do so more assiduously at times.
Now, I think this thread could still turn good, but first we have to simply ignore the noise. It serves not Jewish interests but Tory ones.
Henceforth here I will be applying that policy and I encourage all others to do so as well.
Ah yes, pushing down any criticisms of dear leader and claim its just tory supporters SMEAR™ing.
If you want to know my views on the tories please browse the tory and brexit thread.
Some criticisms of Our Dear Leader that we should perhaps discuss:
- Brexit policy - Weak shadow cabinet - Meek public persona - Is he really a Trot??? - What's the endgame? - Magic money tree!!1 - Nobody's calling him The Absolute Boy any more
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Just seen the gutless weasel Corbyn call TM a stupid women on politics live. The new gentler, kinder lefts politics. Then he sneaked out of the the HOC. What a see you next tuesday!
Just seen the gutless weasel Corbyn call TM a stupid women on politics live. The new gentler, kinder lefts politics. Then he sneaked out of the the HOC. What a see you next tuesday!
Comments
It was when Jeremy Corbyn welcomed Hamas terrorists to Parliament and called them his "friends"
He will only talk and shake hands to his friends from the terror groups his anti-western view point see as acceptable.
He has never spoken to both sides, not in Ireland or the middle east but still this myth about "you need to speak to these people" is trotted out to protect his reputation as a "peace maker"
He has done nothing, the opposite in fact, to bring peace or open a dialogue in those places.
But the point stands and even Mutley accepts it is true @seth plum He called Hezbollah and Hamas his "friends"
Where's the evidence that he helped? There is none. Except, "Yeah, Jeremy's a nice guy".
However the country's Jewish population represent a very awkward blindspot for the hard left because whilst they are clearly a minority (of 250k or so), they're on average better educated, higher-earning and wealthier than the rest of the population and thus don't fit into their simplistic narrative of the rich/powerful/elite on the one hand and the poor/exploited/minority on the other.
Frankly it matters little whether Corbyn is an antisemite or not, he is the Labour leader and has shown virtually no leadership whatsoever on the issue which risks legitimising antisemitism by creating a culture that deems it insufficiently serious versus other forms of discrimination/abuse.
You then throw Israel into the mix (a country/government certainly not without its faults, but nonetheless one which attracts the most virulent and disproportionate bile) and thus the ease of anti-Israel rhetoric morphing into antisemitism in the brains and mouths of the unintelligent, and it's little wonder that the country's Jews are highly uncomfortable at the moment, a disgraceful position given their contribution across every important facet of UK life.
Funny how there are people on here you condemn trump giving kim jong un the time of day in the trump thread and then jump on here and say corbyn is right to hang out with terrorists.
The parallels between trump and corbyn are incredibly striking.
Sinn Fein, previously terrorists now politicians.
Corbyn has always sided with the side he thinks is more persecuted I think and some of these resort to violent actions against civilians to make their point.
Of course so do most governments.
Long winded way of saying it’s not his worst trait. That would be not having the political nouse to persuade a hamster out of its cage never mind about running the country.
Being 'bombarded' by a barrage is less effective if much of that barrage is firing blanks.
Indeed, Nelson Mandela was a great man and was considered a terrorist by the establishment, including this country for a considerable time.
What are your thoughts on trump entertaining kim jong un? @MuttleyCAFC ?
However, the conversation, at every turn, is hijacked by those wishing to trash Corbyn as an antisemite and by extension shut down all other discussion about him.
To them I simply ask: what will Britain be like for Jews under a Corbyn government?
And to them I answer: no different. No pogroms, no Krystallnacht, no legitimised abuse. Labour, as an institution, stands against all racism.
A few bad apples, yes. A few. Every party has them. Labour need to crack down on theirs especially hard as they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. I have no problem calling this a duty, and I wish they'd do so more assiduously at times.
Now, I think this thread could still turn good, but first we have to simply ignore the noise. It serves not Jewish interests but Tory ones.
Henceforth here I will be applying that policy and I encourage all others to do so as well.
If you want to know my views on the tories please browse the tory and brexit thread.
- Brexit policy
- Weak shadow cabinet
- Meek public persona
- Is he really a Trot???
- What's the endgame?
- Magic money tree!!1
- Nobody's calling him The Absolute Boy any more
No arguments there. But don't think it's the done thing in parliament.
For the absence of doubt he definitely said it.
Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her.
There are other words.
on politics live. The new gentler, kinder lefts politics.
Then he sneaked out of the the HOC. What a see you next tuesday!