Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
it's clearly derogatory to women. I doubt you would speak like that to any woman in your life. If you do, you're a misogynistic twat.
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
I can think of plenty of alternatives for #3 tbf, but havent got the time to list them all
It would not be misogynistic if the phrase "stupid man" was also used in similar circumstances, with equal frequency, and carrying the same weight of opprobrium.
The problem is the long, long history of women being "put in their place" by men. A good example of this is the lifetime experience of Dame Jocelyn Bell Burnell, the discoverer of the first pulsar. If you didn't hear it first time round, her interview on "The Life Scientific" is well worth a listen https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016812j .
Some of the views been expressed in this thread honestly wouldn't look out of place in the far right.
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
it's clearly derogatory to women. I doubt you would speak like that to any woman in your life. If you do, you're a misogynistic twat.
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
He didn't speak to any woman like that. He muttered it to himself.
Man, am I glad I abandoned this thread some time ago.
It's a shame, because this could have been an interesting thread. We could have discussed, critically and open-mindedly, the potentialities, pitfalls and possibilities of a Labour government running on a true social democrat platform. We could have discussed policy, economics, and Labour personnel, all of which are interesting and controversial topics.
However, the conversation, at every turn, is hijacked by those wishing to trash Corbyn as an antisemite and by extension shut down all other discussion about him.
To them I simply ask: what will Britain be like for Jews under a Corbyn government?
And to them I answer: no different. No pogroms, no Krystallnacht, no legitimised abuse. Labour, as an institution, stands against all racism.
A few bad apples, yes. A few. Every party has them. Labour need to crack down on theirs especially hard as they're supposed to be the tolerant ones. I have no problem calling this a duty, and I wish they'd do so more assiduously at times.
Now, I think this thread could still turn good, but first we have to simply ignore the noise. It serves not Jewish interests but Tory ones.
Henceforth here I will be applying that policy and I encourage all others to do so as well.
It is indeed a shame since those who choose to look at the entire Labour movement through this Corbyn is antisemitic / anti EU lens miss out on the bigger picture. Entirely.
With the centre left (and centre right) across Europe losing 10% in the polls, how is Labour bucking the trend if the leadership is so incompetent?!
How has Labour climbed to 550,000 members and how is it linked to 5.5 million trades unionists if it's so shite. Or perhaps this myopic, personalised criticism lacks any understanding that we live in an era of chaos and imperfections.
Some treat the discussion like it's about a football team. Shallow, adversarial and with the complete lack of awareness that 2/3 of communication is non verbal via tone and body language.
A dialogue of the deaf where those who will not listen demand answers! The funniest aspect is where some demand that Corbyn should "do something" about Brexit. A call for gesture politics from those who despise gestures! And a complete failure to recognise that the opposition are in opposition on the basis that they do not have a majority.
It's all about blame shifting as opposed to an intellectual debate about the post crash political economy. As you state, sidestepping the noise is one answer. But these people are so keen (Or perhaps rabid) that they spam a thread about the death of Kashoggi with their thoughts about Corbyn.
Freedom of speech to post on a political thread or a lack of self awareness and a deep disrespect for fellow fans as well as the dead journalist in question?
It's a shame since this community has the potential to learn and share their lived experience as well as links to trinkets we find on the web... but some believe that the discussion is for the few and not the many!
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
it's clearly derogatory to women. I doubt you would speak like that to any woman in your life. If you do, you're a misogynistic twat.
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
He didn't speak to any woman like that. He muttered it to himself.
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
Righto - we’ll see if the next time someone uses a reference to a persons gender/race/sexuality as part of an insult you’re so onboard.
There's something called context?
Leuth gold right there.
I’ve saved it for your guaranteed future hypocrisy.
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
it's clearly derogatory to women. I doubt you would speak like that to any woman in your life. If you do, you're a misogynistic twat.
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
He didn't speak to any woman like that. He muttered it to himself.
The bloke is an amateur, along with the majority of his cabinet. The real Labour political heavyweights have been run out of town by Corbyn and his cronies and all that comes along are sycophants and yes men people who say the right thing but their actions just show them up for their hypocrisy.
Tokenism politics, whilst the Country is heading off a cliff edge. Pathetic.
Calling somebody stupid is one thing. Does ca!long somebody a stupid woman make you an eternal card carrying misogynist? For the absence of doubt he definitely said it. Personally I wouldn't have used the word stupid or woman when describing her. There are other words.
Bloody hell Seth. I wonder what this bloke would have to do to lose your favour.
Where have I said I favour him?
Your defence of him in the face of mounting evidence against him, including misogynistic comments made by him just moments ago, suggests that you do.
Is calling the Prime Minister of this country a “stupid woman” abhorrent and unfitting of a person who wants to lead the Opposition (and one day the country)?
I'm struggling to see how that is functionally misogynistic?
The use of “woman”, in this context, is clearly derogatory - it would take some pretty heroic mental gymnastics to try and make out that you support equality of the sexes whilst at the same time supporting a man that goes around calling the female PM a “stupid woman” in her place of work.
1. We don't actually know he said it 2. He mumbled it to himself in frustration. It wasn't an attack 3. What else are you going to call her? Stupid person? Stupid idiot? They have the same force. It's not like he said 'typical woman' or 'bloody women' or something more generic. She is stupid and a woman.
it's clearly derogatory to women. I doubt you would speak like that to any woman in your life. If you do, you're a misogynistic twat.
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
Well, kentie has confirmed it. I am indeed a misogynist. And a twat to boot. I feel bad now.
Mountain out of a mole hill given the state of the current government but then again, anything to deflect from a Tory shambles.
I agree.
British workers are going to be losing their jobs over this, as companies which rely on smooth links to Europe shift the focus of their business across the Channel. I hope they are prepared to retrain as low-paid care workers and hospital ward assistants, as there will be a need for them to replace the many immigrants filling these essential roles.
Mountain out of a mole hill given the state of the current government but then again, anything to deflect from a Tory shambles.
I agree.
British workers are going to be losing their jobs over this, as companies which rely on smooth links to Europe shift the focus of their business across the Channel. I hope they are prepared to retrain as low-paid care workers and hospital ward assistants, as there will be a need for them to replace the many immigrants filling these essential roles.
Exactly. But watch corbyn and milne make an absolute pigs ear of this and for it to drag on and on and on.
Just seen the gutless weasel Corbyn call TM a stupid women on politics live. The new gentler, kinder lefts politics. Then he sneaked out of the the HOC. What a see you next tuesday!
Why don't we find some things you've said about Diane Abbott
hes not a politician or saying it in parliament - so not really compariable. #
how anyone can even defend that idiot abbot is ridiculous.
I don't defend Abbot at all.
But i don't defend the often racist and sexist abuse she receives which is nothing to do with how bad she is at her job either.
Mountain out of a mole hill given the state of the current government but then again, anything to deflect from a Tory shambles.
I agree that it is not the worse thing he has ever said in parliament (see posts above about being friend of terrorists) but he did say it.
If people are using it as a stick to hit him with it's because he handed them the stick and then wouldn't apologise.
Instead of killing the story, the labour position becomes "he didn't say it" when we can all see he did. Just invites more wacks with the stick Corbyn created but it's an excuse that the cult can latch on to. "Didn't happen, move on, Corbyn is great, blame the Tories, la la la la la la la la"
maybe there are a lot more "important" (although this maybe more important to women than some men realise) things to attack Corbyn on like his Brexit duplicity and his on/off votes of confidence but if he hadn't said it, it wouldn't be raised now.
You want my honest assessment of Corbyn and Labour right now?
1. I like him, I don’t think he has a bad bone in his body. I think he makes a lot of innocent mistakes and on days like today, the reality that someone who makes so many consistent mistakes will never be trusted by enough of the electorate hits me hard.
2. The reason I defend him and have voted with him three times: I love his policies and the most recent manifesto. It’s more than a breath of fresh air.
3. I’m scared that once Corbyn is ousted, the policies won’t be seen again from a mainstream party for at least a generation. I see him as our chance for a genuine shift back towards the left after many successive governments have dragged political debate to the right.
If JC goes in the next couple of years and some centrist with Tory-lite policies is installed, my membership of the Labour Party will be short lived indeed.
Mountain out of a mole hill given the state of the current government but then again, anything to deflect from a Tory shambles.
I agree that it is not the worse thing he has ever said in parliament (see posts above about being friend of terrorists) but he did say it.
If people are using it as a stick to hit him with it's because he handed them the stick and then wouldn't apologise.
Instead of killing the story, the labour position becomes "he didn't say it" when we can all see he did. Just invites more wacks with the stick Corbyn created but it's an excuse that the cult can latch on to. "Didn't happen, move on, Corbyn is great, blame the Tories, la la la la la la la la"
maybe there are a lot more "important" (although this maybe more important to women than some men realise) things to attack Corbyn on like his Brexit duplicity and his on/off votes of confidence but if he hadn't said it, it wouldn't be raised now.
Another car crash PR move from corbyn and milne this.
Mountain out of a mole hill given the state of the current government but then again, anything to deflect from a Tory shambles.
That may be the case, but he Tory thread would go into meltdown if BoJo or JRM said that in parliament, under their breath or not. Quite unacceptable behaviour.
I agree the Tories are a shambles, that cannot be denied, but the level of hypocrisy shown by Corbyn's supporters is simply astounding.
You want my honest assessment of Corbyn and Labour right now?
1. I like him, I don’t think he has a bad bone in his body. I think he makes a lot of innocent mistakes and on days like today, the reality that someone who makes so many consistent mistakes will never be trusted by enough of the electorate hits me hard.
2. The reason I defend him and have voted with him three times: I love his policies and the most recent manifesto. It’s more than a breath of fresh air.
3. I’m scared that once Corbyn is ousted, the policies won’t be seen again from a mainstream party for at least a generation. I see him as our chance for a genuine shift back towards the left after many successive governments have dragged political debate to the right.
If JC goes in the next couple of years and some centrist with Tory-lite policies is installed, my membership of the Labour Party will be short lived indeed.
What’s the point in these policies if they aren’t enough to defeat quite the worst government in my lifetime? Look at the polls - Labour are still behind by some distance and actually losing ground according to the latest numbers.
If you want to see real change from this terrible government then Labour have to get rid of Corbyn.
You want my honest assessment of Corbyn and Labour right now?
1. I like him, I don’t think he has a bad bone in his body. I think he makes a lot of innocent mistakes and on days like today, the reality that someone who makes so many consistent mistakes will never be trusted by enough of the electorate hits me hard.
2. The reason I defend him and have voted with him three times: I love his policies and the most recent manifesto. It’s more than a breath of fresh air.
3. I’m scared that once Corbyn is ousted, the policies won’t be seen again from a mainstream party for at least a generation. I see him as our chance for a genuine shift back towards the left after many successive governments have dragged political debate to the right.
If JC goes in the next couple of years and some centrist with Tory-lite policies is installed, my membership of the Labour Party will be short lived indeed.
I thought corbyn created the largest party membership in europe? Surely if he was to step down they would vote for another leader with left wing views?
Corbyn needs to resign for labour to get any electability.
You want my honest assessment of Corbyn and Labour right now?
1. I like him, I don’t think he has a bad bone in his body. I think he makes a lot of innocent mistakes and on days like today, the reality that someone who makes so many consistent mistakes will never be trusted by enough of the electorate hits me hard.
2. The reason I defend him and have voted with him three times: I love his policies and the most recent manifesto. It’s more than a breath of fresh air.
3. I’m scared that once Corbyn is ousted, the policies won’t be seen again from a mainstream party for at least a generation. I see him as our chance for a genuine shift back towards the left after many successive governments have dragged political debate to the right.
If JC goes in the next couple of years and some centrist with Tory-lite policies is installed, my membership of the Labour Party will be short lived indeed.
If Corbyn goes (more likely when) it won't be to do with his policies or even his personal beliefs, but due to his utter inability to manage any sort of crisis effectively. Throw the man a hot potato and he'll stuff it with ghost chillies, set it alight then try and swallow it.
The politics aside, hes just not leadership material at all as the fact that Labour are somehow contriving to lose ground proves.
Comments
We're not even touching the fact that in the chamber the prime minister should always be referred to as the prime minister.
Just bizarre.
With the centre left (and centre right) across Europe losing 10% in the polls, how is Labour bucking the trend if the leadership is so incompetent?!
How has Labour climbed to 550,000 members and how is it linked to 5.5 million trades unionists if it's so shite. Or perhaps this myopic, personalised criticism lacks any understanding that we live in an era of chaos and imperfections.
Some treat the discussion like it's about a football team. Shallow, adversarial and with the complete lack of awareness that 2/3 of communication is non verbal via tone and body language.
A dialogue of the deaf where those who will not listen demand answers! The funniest aspect is where some demand that Corbyn should "do something" about Brexit. A call for gesture politics from those who despise gestures! And a complete failure to recognise that the opposition are in opposition on the basis that they do not have a majority.
It's all about blame shifting as opposed to an intellectual debate about the post crash political economy. As you state, sidestepping the noise is one answer. But these people are so keen (Or perhaps rabid) that they spam a thread about the death of Kashoggi with their thoughts about Corbyn.
Freedom of speech to post on a political thread or a lack of self awareness and a deep disrespect for fellow fans as well as the dead journalist in question?
It's a shame since this community has the potential to learn and share their lived experience as well as links to trinkets we find on the web... but some believe that the discussion is for the few and not the many!
See wot I done there
I’ve saved it for your guaranteed future hypocrisy.
He referenced her sex, which is a big no-no. Especially in the house of commons.
The bloke is an amateur, along with the majority of his cabinet. The real Labour political heavyweights have been run out of town by Corbyn and his cronies and all that comes along are sycophants and yes
menpeople who say the right thing but their actions just show them up for their hypocrisy.Tokenism politics, whilst the Country is heading off a cliff edge. Pathetic.
Well, kentie has confirmed it. I am indeed a misogynist. And a twat to boot. I feel bad now.
British workers are going to be losing their jobs over this, as companies which rely on smooth links to Europe shift the focus of their business across the Channel.
I hope they are prepared to retrain as low-paid care workers and hospital ward assistants, as there will be a need for them to replace the many immigrants filling these essential roles.
But i don't defend the often racist and sexist abuse she receives which is nothing to do with how bad she is at her job either.
If people are using it as a stick to hit him with it's because he handed them the stick and then wouldn't apologise.
Instead of killing the story, the labour position becomes "he didn't say it" when we can all see he did. Just invites more wacks with the stick Corbyn created but it's an excuse that the cult can latch on to. "Didn't happen, move on, Corbyn is great, blame the Tories, la la la la la la la la"
maybe there are a lot more "important" (although this maybe more important to women than some men realise) things to attack Corbyn on like his Brexit duplicity and his on/off votes of confidence but if he hadn't said it, it wouldn't be raised now.
1. I like him, I don’t think he has a bad bone in his body. I think he makes a lot of innocent mistakes and on days like today, the reality that someone who makes so many consistent mistakes will never be trusted by enough of the electorate hits me hard.
2. The reason I defend him and have voted with him three times: I love his policies and the most recent manifesto. It’s more than a breath of fresh air.
3. I’m scared that once Corbyn is ousted, the policies won’t be seen again from a mainstream party for at least a generation. I see him as our chance for a genuine shift back towards the left after many successive governments have dragged political debate to the right.
If JC goes in the next couple of years and some centrist with Tory-lite policies is installed, my membership of the Labour Party will be short lived indeed.
I agree the Tories are a shambles, that cannot be denied, but the level of hypocrisy shown by Corbyn's supporters is simply astounding.
If you want to see real change from this terrible government then Labour have to get rid of Corbyn.
Corbyn needs to resign for labour to get any electability.
The politics aside, hes just not leadership material at all as the fact that Labour are somehow contriving to lose ground proves.